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The Necker Cube Illusion [but for reals]

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Posts

  • GalahadGalahad Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I do something a little like what you are doing with rooms, but with people, Lieber.

    It is like there is an idea or representation of a person in my mind that I recognize as that person. And sometimes I'll see a person, someone that I know and see daily even, and it takes a second for that mental representation to click in to place. And for those few instants, if I even recognize them, they look very strange to me.

    This is especially pronounced if I haven't seen a person in a while. A person will be a complete stranger to me, and then suddenly something clicks in to place in my brain and they look like they always and ever have.

    ...

    Actually come to think of it, location wise. I sometimes get lost in familiar places. It isn't something that has ever worried me, because my mother has complained of pretty much the exact same experience for years without any other problems.

    I'll be driving or walking somewhere, going along the same rout that I do daily, and then I just don't know where I am. I don't recognize any of the buildings, streets, have no idea what direction I am going, etc. It usually lasts less than a minute, and then everything starts making sense again.

    It seems to be triggered by stress.

  • kdrudykdrudy Registered User
    edited June 2010
    Feral wrote: »
    Lieberkuhn wrote: »
    The location (usually the inside of a house, though it can happen outside too) never physically changes: like Necker Cube, it's always the same layout. But there will be two different interpretations of the place -- there is my usual interpretation, and, rarely, there is the "different" interpretation; despite having an identical layout, it just feels like a completely different place. I'm not sure how else to put it. I don't mean that the place sometimes gives me a certain feeling (like how you might feel creeped out in your house at night, but feel fine during the day), and I don't mean that the place becomes unrecognisable; I am absolutely familiar with both interpretations once I've had a moment to learn them. They're just... different places that exist in the same location.

    There are a spectrum of misidentification syndromes that happen in stroke and brain tumor victims - syndromes where the affected person acts as though something familiar (a person or place) as been replaced by an identical duplicate. Basically, they can recognize the object, but they do not feel as if it is familiar. It sounds like you're experiencing something similar to a reduplicative paramnesia but without the delusional thought process to go with it.

    What is really far out about this one is that when it happens with people the effect exists only when they can see the person. Often if they just hear their voice, like over the phone, they recognize the person with no problem, but when they see them they just don't recognize them as the person they are familiar with.

    tvsfrank.jpg
  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    kdrudy wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    Lieberkuhn wrote: »
    The location (usually the inside of a house, though it can happen outside too) never physically changes: like Necker Cube, it's always the same layout. But there will be two different interpretations of the place -- there is my usual interpretation, and, rarely, there is the "different" interpretation; despite having an identical layout, it just feels like a completely different place. I'm not sure how else to put it. I don't mean that the place sometimes gives me a certain feeling (like how you might feel creeped out in your house at night, but feel fine during the day), and I don't mean that the place becomes unrecognisable; I am absolutely familiar with both interpretations once I've had a moment to learn them. They're just... different places that exist in the same location.

    There are a spectrum of misidentification syndromes that happen in stroke and brain tumor victims - syndromes where the affected person acts as though something familiar (a person or place) as been replaced by an identical duplicate. Basically, they can recognize the object, but they do not feel as if it is familiar. It sounds like you're experiencing something similar to a reduplicative paramnesia but without the delusional thought process to go with it.

    What is really far out about this one is that when it happens with people the effect exists only when they can see the person. Often if they just hear their voice, like over the phone, they recognize the person with no problem, but when they see them they just don't recognize them as the person they are familiar with.

    Yeah, they're visual processing disorders.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • tehmarkentehmarken BrooklynRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Just throwing this out there, but not getting enough sleep has been connected to these same kinds of feelings.

  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Oh, Feral, you and your science.

    That's pretty awesome, really. And something I hadn't considered, since I've only ever really heard of it with respect to people.
    Me too! I've read about the Capgras Delusion, but I'd not realized it could occur with respect to places and things, that is freaky!

  • ScroffusScroffus Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    There have been a couple of times where I've forgotten how to breathe. It's rather odd. It's not like my throat locks up or anything (I've had asthma attacks in the past and it's very different from that) but instead I just seem to be unable to initiate the breathing process. I usually think something along the lines of "ok, I guess I just need to move my lungs somehow... how do I do that?". For the first 10-20 seconds it isn't really that alarming, more odd. I start to think maybe I don't need to breathe, maybe I've been spending all this energy unnecessarily all these years, perhaps I've finally mastered my own body. Then for a few seconds panic kicks in and I get a bit scared and shortly after I go back to breathing.

  • YogoYogo Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Scroffus wrote: »
    There have been a couple of times where I've forgotten how to breathe. It's rather odd. It's not like my throat locks up or anything (I've had asthma attacks in the past and it's very different from that) but instead I just seem to be unable to initiate the breathing process. I usually think something along the lines of "ok, I guess I just need to move my lungs somehow... how do I do that?". For the first 10-20 seconds it isn't really that alarming, more odd. I start to think maybe I don't need to breathe, maybe I've been spending all this energy unnecessarily all these years, perhaps I've finally mastered my own body. Then for a few seconds panic kicks in and I get a bit scared and shortly after I go back to breathing.

    You are not alone in that department. I have experienced similar though one only time where it was rather uncomfortable. I suddenly "forgot" to breathe and had to consciously "think" about inhaling and exhaling to breathe. It went away after an hour.

  • ScroffusScroffus Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Yogo wrote: »
    Scroffus wrote: »
    There have been a couple of times where I've forgotten how to breathe. It's rather odd. It's not like my throat locks up or anything (I've had asthma attacks in the past and it's very different from that) but instead I just seem to be unable to initiate the breathing process. I usually think something along the lines of "ok, I guess I just need to move my lungs somehow... how do I do that?". For the first 10-20 seconds it isn't really that alarming, more odd. I start to think maybe I don't need to breathe, maybe I've been spending all this energy unnecessarily all these years, perhaps I've finally mastered my own body. Then for a few seconds panic kicks in and I get a bit scared and shortly after I go back to breathing.

    You are not alone in that department. I have experienced similar though one only time where it was rather uncomfortable. I suddenly "forgot" to breathe and had to consciously "think" about inhaling and exhaling to breathe. It went away after an hour.

    It's different form being having to consciously breathe (that happens fairly often, infact it is happening now with all this talk of breathing), it's just that I can't figure out how to inhale or exhale at all.

  • TalleyrandTalleyrand Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    A lot of these experiences seem related in some way and seem to be pretty common place just looking at this thread. I myself forget things all the time. How to pronounce certain words or how some turns of phrase go. People and regular events stay familiar but feel novel and unconnected to me. Normally I throw this all under the term dissociation but I've seen that word being used for so many things it's just become too broad.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Lieberkuhn wrote: »
    I think it'd be cool to be self-skeptical and self-aware enough to be curious and calm about going insane. Like say, having Alzheimer's and recognizing that you're not working with a full deck without flipping out.

    Haha yeah I guess my scientific curiosity cancels out my sense of mortality.

    I once woke up to a horrible flashing light in the right-hand side of my vision, which was so intense and relentless that it reduced me to tears. Closing my eyes did nothing to make it go away. Once it finally subsided, I realised that my right-hand peripheral vision was gone. Completely. I could see anything to the left of my and anything directly in front of me, but everything to my right simply wasn't there.

    I guess most people would freak the fuck out in that situation. My reaction was to go "cool, the hallucination shorted out my vision" and start testing how much was missing. (My vision returned to normal after 10 minutes or so.)

    It sounds like you had a migrain...

    I get this all the time.

    http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/migraine-with-aura/DS00908

    I get the zigzags. My peripheral goes as well for a bit after. However, Ive noticed that its actually that the aura moves off to the side of my vision and keeps moving that way, blinding my periphral until its gone.

    Mine also comes with numbness in my face, hands and inability to remember basic stuff. Its like mini-strokes. The first few times it was scary as shit. Lucky for me, the numbness and lack of thinking has gotten a lot less servere over the years.


    In other news...has anyone ever experienced a general feeling of sizes being off. Like, my hands will seem like they are huge, or something Im holding will just seem too small or too big. Or the room itself. Especially distances between objects. Things just seem...off. It doesnt happen often, but when it does its weird. Only lasts for a bit.

    616610-1.png
  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    This is my migraine aura:
    Wikipedia wrote:
    Scintillating scotoma is the most common visual aura preceding migraine and was first described by 19th century physician Hubert Airy (1838–1903).

    It may occur as an isolated symptom without headache in acephalgic migraine. Although many variations occur, scintillating scotoma usually begins as a spot of flickering light near or in the center of the visual fields, which prevents vision within the scotoma. The scotoma area flickers, but is not dark. The scotoma then expands into one or more shimmering arcs of white or colored flashing lights. An arc of light may gradually enlarge, become more obvious, and may take the form of a definite zigzag pattern, sometimes called a fortification spectrum, because of its resemblance to the fortifications of a castle or fort seen from above.

    ScintillatingScotoma3.jpg
    Example of a scintillating scotoma, as may be caused by cortical spreading depression.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Yeah...i think i get those and they sometimes become the zig-zags.

    Cause just looking at that picture makes me a bit sick in my tummy and angry.

    I swear I see NUMBERS in my auras. Like, if I could just focus on them a bit more I could read out some code...

    616610-1.png
  • ShivahnShivahn Eastern coastal temptressRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Feral wrote: »
    This is my migraine aura:

    I get migraines without aura.

    It's like, hey, let's take an interesting but extremely painful thing...

    and take out the interesting part.

  • LieberkuhnLieberkuhn __BANNED USERS
    edited June 2010
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    This is my migraine aura:

    I get migraines without aura.

    It's like, hey, let's take an interesting but extremely painful thing...

    and take out the interesting part.

    I get aura without the migraine.

    Har har.

    While you eat, let's have a conversation about the nature of consent.
  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Lieberkuhn wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    This is my migraine aura:

    I get migraines without aura.

    It's like, hey, let's take an interesting but extremely painful thing...

    and take out the interesting part.

    I get aura without the migraine.

    Har har.

    You guys should get together.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I occasionally get what I have come to think are hypnic jerks. I've had them since I can remember.

    They can be fairly unpleasant.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. On Hiatus!

    Any gamers in the Danville, PA area? PM me if you're interested in some tabletop gaming.
  • DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I would easily double or triple the pain of my migrains to get rid of the aura and other stroke like symptoms.

    They ruin my day.

    A headache, I can deal with, but not being able to use my right hand or see straight or carry a conversation...no way.

    I have a friend who has never once gotten a headache. Not from anything ever. We plan on entering him into ice cream eating contests.

    616610-1.png
  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Disrupter wrote: »
    I would easily double or triple the pain of my migrains to get rid of the aura and other stroke like symptoms.

    They ruin my day.

    A headache, I can deal with, but not being able to use my right hand or see straight or carry a conversation...no way.

    I have a friend who has never once gotten a headache. Not from anything ever. We plan on entering him into ice cream eating contests.

    Seriously!

    Pain is manageable. Losing most of my vision, having wonky depth perception, racing thoughts, distractibility, and mood swings? Erg.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I've had some rocking headaches from various sources, but I've never lost function because of them.

    I guess I should consider myself lucky.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. On Hiatus!

    Any gamers in the Danville, PA area? PM me if you're interested in some tabletop gaming.
  • kdrudykdrudy Registered User
    edited June 2010
    The weird thing that I'll get occasionally that I've never been able to explain is that I'll feel a something, I don't know what, build up in me, kind of similar to how you can feel a sneeze coming on, and then all of a sudden it releases and my whole body will shake for a moment. It is almost like an electric shock suddenly, but it's not painful and doesn't interfere with anything at all so I've never worried that much about.

    The little research I've done has been inconclusive since it's not severe enough to be anything I've read about that is similar.

    tvsfrank.jpg
  • DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I get the electric shock twitch from time to time, it used to happen a lot while peeing, I called them the pee shakes. I though it was common. I get it when not peeing too though...

    Also, Feral, you mention mood swings, is that a symptom of migrains? I notice that i am kind of a grouchy dick around a bat of migrains, and I have begun coming to a conclusion that they may be related. I didnt know if my ill temper was causing stress that lead to migrains, or if my migrains were causing my short temper...

    616610-1.png
  • LieberkuhnLieberkuhn __BANNED USERS
    edited June 2010
    Disrupter wrote: »
    I get the electric shock twitch from time to time, it used to happen a lot while peeing, I called them the pee shakes. I though it was common. I get it when not peeing too though...

    They are common when peeing. I get them too. I was actually surprised to learn it was more common in men, since I'd assumed it was the cold seat making me shiver.

    While you eat, let's have a conversation about the nature of consent.
  • ShivahnShivahn Eastern coastal temptressRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Feral wrote: »
    Disrupter wrote: »
    I would easily double or triple the pain of my migrains to get rid of the aura and other stroke like symptoms.

    They ruin my day.

    A headache, I can deal with, but not being able to use my right hand or see straight or carry a conversation...no way.

    I have a friend who has never once gotten a headache. Not from anything ever. We plan on entering him into ice cream eating contests.

    Seriously!

    Pain is manageable. Losing most of my vision, having wonky depth perception, racing thoughts, distractibility, and mood swings? Erg.

    That sucks. The only migraine symptom I get besides pain is photophobia and a hatred of sounds.

    Also there is lots of crying and curling into a ball and wishing I were dead. But that's related to the pain.

  • ShivahnShivahn Eastern coastal temptressRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    kdrudy wrote: »
    The weird thing that I'll get occasionally that I've never been able to explain is that I'll feel a something, I don't know what, build up in me, kind of similar to how you can feel a sneeze coming on, and then all of a sudden it releases and my whole body will shake for a moment. It is almost like an electric shock suddenly, but it's not painful and doesn't interfere with anything at all so I've never worried that much about.

    The little research I've done has been inconclusive since it's not severe enough to be anything I've read about that is similar.

    I have this too.

    My neurologist doesn't know what it is. So uh, yeah.

  • ShivahnShivahn Eastern coastal temptressRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    My neurology is weird. I get nocturnal myoclonus (and restless leg syndrome, which I never mention cuz no one thinks it exists).

    But my migraines are special. I think all I get are migraines. I get really bad splitting ones where the inside of one of my eye will have sharp throbbing pains, and then I get "normal" headaches that aren't so bad. Except that they're actually migraines, I'm just used to them.

    I went to the neurologist complaining about how I get a few different types of headaches, and said that I only get migraines every few months, at most, but I get other headaches more frequently, and described them.

    He just said "uh, those are actually migraines too. Those have like all of the symptoms, and don't match up with tension headaches or anything."

    So I apparently don't get normal headaches. I'm just so used to migraines so I thought that they were normal.

  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Disrupter wrote: »
    Also, Feral, you mention mood swings, is that a symptom of migrains?

    It can be, yeah.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    I occasionally get what I have come to think are hypnic jerks. I've had them since I can remember.

    They can be fairly unpleasant.

    I used to get those regularly, now only occasionally. Annoying, especially when I'm trying to sleep in.

    And on the subject of sleep, it still completely boggles me the way dreams fade. It's just there, and then I couldn't be forced at gunpoint to explain what I'd been dreaming. I usually don't remember my dreams at all, which is nice because when I do and they fade like that it ruins my morning.

    (Mostly) Competitive Gaming Blog Updated June 24th. Dark Souls Diaries - Completed
    stream
  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Shivahn wrote: »
    kdrudy wrote: »
    The weird thing that I'll get occasionally that I've never been able to explain is that I'll feel a something, I don't know what, build up in me, kind of similar to how you can feel a sneeze coming on, and then all of a sudden it releases and my whole body will shake for a moment. It is almost like an electric shock suddenly, but it's not painful and doesn't interfere with anything at all so I've never worried that much about.

    The little research I've done has been inconclusive since it's not severe enough to be anything I've read about that is similar.

    I have this too.

    My neurologist doesn't know what it is. So uh, yeah.

    Me too. They're actually really common, though they get less common with age.

    I learned the clinical name for them once, but I can't remember right now. :(

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • SilvenSilven Registered User
    edited June 2010
    This thread sort-of-kind-of makes me wish I had some fun mental quirk. I have panic attacks, though, and that's more than enough.

    The only thing I have that even comes close to being significant is that I can never un-associate places with the way I imagine them, especially in dreams or nightmares. If I have a nightmare in which the downstairs closet is actually filled with dismembered people, every time I remember it after that, no matter what the reason, it will always be the closet full of dismembered people.

    Oh, sure, I know there aren't corpses in there. But when I think of it, that's always what it will be in my memory. It's not even scary. It's just weird because the real memory is replaced entirely by the false one unless concentrated upon.

  • ShivahnShivahn Eastern coastal temptressRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Panic attacks suck. I get those too.

  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I don't need to set an alarm clock. If I make a mental note that I have to wake up at 7am and before I go to sleep and there's a digital clock in the room with me, I'll wake up at 7am give or take five minutes. Same for 9am, noon, 4pm - any time. I suspect I wake up a bunch of times during the night, check the clock, and then go back to sleep before I realize it. I'll try facing my clock away from my bed to see if that's true next weekend.

    easybossfight_zps4752c132.gif
  • Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    emnmnme wrote: »
    I don't need to set an alarm clock. If I make a mental note that I have to wake up at 7am and before I go to sleep and there's a digital clock in the room with me, I'll wake up at 7am give or take five minutes. Same for 9am, noon, 4pm - any time. I suspect I wake up a bunch of times during the night, check the clock, and then go back to sleep before I realize it. I'll try facing my clock away from my bed to see if that's true next weekend.

    Same. I have to make the conscious decision to wake up at a certain time, though sometimes I'll get anxious and just want to wake up early and that can lead to waking up REALLY early and then sleeping in 40 minute spurts for the rest of the morning.

    I sometimes have dreams that are so mundane that I mistake them for memories. It works with the way I can't remember dreams and that I have a bad memory to begin with. For example, I will run into a person I haven't seen for a while and when I try to remember our last conversation I have to make very sure that what I'm remembering actually happened and wasn't a dream. I can always tell what was a dream in the end, but it's still weird that the first memories I dredge up are false.

    (Mostly) Competitive Gaming Blog Updated June 24th. Dark Souls Diaries - Completed
    stream
  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I wish it were that easy for me to get up in the morning. I've been diagnosed with this which is a fancy way of saying "night owl."

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • lazegamerlazegamer Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I was frequently getting migraines in high school, and after the traditional allergens were ruled out it was determined that a pattern of late nights and early mornings were the likely culprit. I've been mostly migraine free for the past eight years, but occasionally the watery zips come back.

    The first and most frightening experience I had was while I was in biology class and I began to have a progressively more difficult time reading the whiteboard. Eventually it got to the point where I could only see portions depending on how I tilted my head. The rest of the room seemed somewhat normal, but it was as if the black marker on the board suddenly became invisible.

    My sight eventually cleared up, and about thirty minutes later was replaced with a severe headache and nausea. I've since found that when the symptoms begin to show, closing my eyes and turning off the lights tend to both hasten the arrival of the headache and lessen the pain.

    Surprise.
    - Spy
  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Anyone with regular migraines should look into Zomig. Costs a bit, but it does seem to knock them straight out as long as you take it early enough.

  • DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Pssh, I have the cure for migrains.

    Have a friend spin you in a chair!

    I noticed that my aura seems to float off to one side and eventually vanish. So I figured, lets hasten the procees with some spinning!

    My friend, who is currently a resident at some hospital in chicago wanted no part in the affair and advised us against it. My other friend, who is not remotely a doctor agreed to spin me. Within minutes all symptoms were gone. This has worked twice out of two attempts.

    We have since stopped asking our doctor friend for medical advice and instead ask each other, in front of him, loudly.

    616610-1.png
  • DecomposeyDecomposey Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    kdrudy wrote: »
    The weird thing that I'll get occasionally that I've never been able to explain is that I'll feel a something, I don't know what, build up in me, kind of similar to how you can feel a sneeze coming on, and then all of a sudden it releases and my whole body will shake for a moment. It is almost like an electric shock suddenly, but it's not painful and doesn't interfere with anything at all so I've never worried that much about.

    The little research I've done has been inconclusive since it's not severe enough to be anything I've read about that is similar.

    I get this as well, I just call them cold chills and ignore them.

    My real fun brain thing is caused by low blood pressure / dehydration. I stand up too fast and depending on how dehydrated I am, my vison will start going dark, I'll lose feeling in my face, hands, or feet, my legs will start twitching or give out completely, or in one really fun case everything went completely black and then suddenly I was staring up from the floor. Which freaked out my boyfriend at the time, because my eyes were wide open and staring like a corpse, he though I'd died.

    What's interesting about these events is that when they happen, I also lose all recognition of where I am. I KNOW where I am, if it happens in my living room my brain can say 'Whelp, I was in my living room a second ago and so obviously I'm still in my living room' but looking around nothing is familiar. As in I know by deduction that that is my couch, but I don't immediately recognize it as my couch.

    Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, I feel I should warn you: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
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