Wait, my dad used to sit me on his lap and let me steer when I was... well, shit, let's just say it's one of the earliest memories I have in life. This eventually progressed to driving around the block sitting on a couple of phone books with him in the passenger seat.
Are you saying that at 18 years old, I wouldn't have had an appreciably superior command of the vehicle compared to someone who'd never driven until they started their license testing?
Not enough for to matter. There's nothing inherently superior about someone who was let behind the wheel at a very young age, simple as that. Bragging about how you slid out of the womb and promptly parallel-parked your ass in the crib is silly.
I don't know; my sister constantly drove around in our father's car from a very young age, sometimes in his lap, sometimes joy rides up and down the driveway (which was, like, half a mile long). I meanwhile didn't touch a steering wheel until my first lesson.
My sister passed her test, on the first attempt, a few weeks after starting lessons. I passed my test on the third attempt after a year of lessons, then a few months later nearly got into an accident (100% my fault) and haven't driven since.
There's no way that's a coincidence.
Lieberkuhn on
While you eat, let's have a conversation about the nature of consent.
Wait, my dad used to sit me on his lap and let me steer when I was... well, shit, let's just say it's one of the earliest memories I have in life. This eventually progressed to driving around the block sitting on a couple of phone books with him in the passenger seat.
Are you saying that at 18 years old, I wouldn't have had an appreciably superior command of the vehicle compared to someone who'd never driven until they started their license testing?
Not enough for to matter. There's nothing inherently superior about someone who was let behind the wheel at a very young age, simple as that. Bragging about how you slid out of the womb and promptly parallel-parked your ass in the crib is silly.
I don't know; my sister constantly drove around in our father's car from a very young age, sometimes in his lap, sometimes joy rides up and down the driveway (which was, like, half a mile long). I meanwhile didn't touch a steering wheel until my first lesson.
My sister passed her test, on the first attempt, a few weeks after starting lessons. I passed my test on the third attempt after a year of lessons, then a few months later nearly got into an accident (100% my fault) and haven't driven since.
Apparently people can somehow find automatic cars that don't have traction control.
Or drive at 60mph on city streets in the rain.
Older automatics don't, and there's millions of them on the roads today.
As for the bolded part: I suggest you take a trip to SE Michigan.
I-696, I-75, and I-94 traffic through Detroit and it's many suburbs, in a torrential downpour, is usually running at about 70mph or faster. Driving through there is a real test of one's driving ability, especially I-696 heading to Port Huron.
krush on
0
Options
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
I was driving on the wrong side of the road, of course I'm a bad fucking driver
Uh, this has probably less to do with length of time experience and more with one's mindset while driving. A person's hand/eye co-ordination is also a factor. In fact, there's a lot of factors concerning the amount of accidents one gets into. Example:
I went 12 years without a single accident. Nada. I bought a new car for the first time ever and it was written off in a major collision 7 or 8 months later. Not my fault, got 100% of my purchase price back from insurance and bought another of the exact same car. Six months later (two weeks ago), some lady driving a Mercedes SUV rammed it while it was parked.
This has nothing to do with my quality has a driver, nor the fact that I own a new car and everything to do with the fact that there are more variables at work than simple experience.
I was driving on the wrong side of the road, of course I'm a bad fucking driver
Are you just like, super unconfident about yourself or what?
Because I'm pretty sure just about anyone can become at least a decent driver. I've known some real dumbasses that seem to find it so easy that they think nothing of blabbing on the phone while doing it.
Really, the cause of a lot of accidents is people doing stuff to entertain themselves while driving because it is so fucking boring.
Just Like That on
0
Options
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Because The_Cat and shryke were saying that apparently any experience behind the wheel before you're 15 years old or so is meaningless, so I felt the need to point out the obvious there. sorry.
I was driving on the wrong side of the road, of course I'm a bad fucking driver
Uh, this has probably less to do with length of time experience and more with one's mindset while driving. A person's hand/eye co-ordination is also a factor. In fact, there's a lot of factors concerning the amount of accidents one gets into. Example:
I went 12 years without a single accident. Nada. I bought a new car for the first time ever and it was written off in a major collision 7 or 8 months later. Not my fault, got 100% of my purchase price back from insurance and bought another of the exact same car. Six months later (two weeks ago), some lady driving a Mercedes SUV rammed it while it was parked.
This has nothing to do with my quality has a driver, nor the fact that I own a new car and everything to do with the fact that there are more variables at work than simple experience.
But the accident I nearly got into was 100% my fault, and a direct result of my horrible inexperience. Judge for yourself: I was turning a corner and forgot to reduce my speed, resulting in the car veering onto the wrong side of the road and nearly crashing into a car coming the other way.
I should point out that I was not a reckless, speedy driver: I was always cautious, obeyed road signs religiously, and refused to let my mind wander. The above was one of the few times it did manage to wander.
Lieberkuhn on
While you eat, let's have a conversation about the nature of consent.
0
Options
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Because The_Cat and shryke were saying that apparently any experience behind the wheel before you're 15 years old or so is meaningless, so I felt the need to point out the obvious there. sorry.
Hm, I guess you saw their posts differently than I. I thought they were saying the kind of experience you get sitting on your dad's lap or driving in a .5 mile driveway was pretty useless as an indicator of expertise. Which I agree with.
Nova_C on
0
Options
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
I was driving on the wrong side of the road, of course I'm a bad fucking driver
Uh, this has probably less to do with length of time experience and more with one's mindset while driving. A person's hand/eye co-ordination is also a factor. In fact, there's a lot of factors concerning the amount of accidents one gets into. Example:
I went 12 years without a single accident. Nada. I bought a new car for the first time ever and it was written off in a major collision 7 or 8 months later. Not my fault, got 100% of my purchase price back from insurance and bought another of the exact same car. Six months later (two weeks ago), some lady driving a Mercedes SUV rammed it while it was parked.
This has nothing to do with my quality has a driver, nor the fact that I own a new car and everything to do with the fact that there are more variables at work than simple experience.
But the accident I nearly got into was 100% my fault, and a direct result of my horrible inexperience. Judge for yourself: I was turning a corner and forgot to reduce my speed, resulting in the car veering onto the wrong side of the road and nearly crashing into a car coming the other way.
I should point out that I was not a reckless, speedy driver: I was always cautious, obeyed road signs religiously, and refused to let my mind wander. The above was one of the few times it did manage to wander.
And people who have been driving for 30 years let their minds wander and do stupid things.
I'm willing to bet that experience has less to do with how dangerous someone is behind the wheel than with A) How much someone enjoys driving and How much attention people pay to their driving.
Because The_Cat and shryke were saying that apparently any experience behind the wheel before you're 15 years old or so is meaningless, so I felt the need to point out the obvious there. sorry.
Hm, I guess you saw their posts differently than I. I thought they were saying the kind of experience you get sitting on your dad's lap or driving in a .5 mile driveway was pretty useless as an indicator of expertise. Which I agree with.
Well then we'd have to define our terms. Obviously I'm not saying that either of those things by themselves are indicators of expertise, but part of a graduated learning system.
I'm willing to bet that experience has less to do with how dangerous someone is behind the wheel than with A) How much someone enjoys driving and How much attention people pay to their driving.
Well, here's the thing: people who enjoy driving are the folks who liked to clamber into their dad's lap as kids, while folks who hate it never even considered getting behind the wheel before they needed to.
Lieberkuhn on
While you eat, let's have a conversation about the nature of consent.
0
Options
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
I'm willing to bet that experience has less to do with how dangerous someone is behind the wheel than with A) How much someone enjoys driving and How much attention people pay to their driving.
Well, here's the thing: people who enjoy driving are the folks who liked to clamber into their dad's lap as kids, while folks who hate it never even considered getting behind the wheel before they needed to.
Yes, but the fact that they did that is irrelevant.
Apparently people can somehow find automatic cars that don't have traction control.
Or drive at 60mph on city streets in the rain.
Older automatics don't, and there's millions of them on the roads today.
As for the bolded part: I suggest you take a trip to SE Michigan.
I-696, I-75, and I-94 traffic through Detroit and it's many suburbs, in a torrential downpour, is usually running at about 70mph or faster. Driving through there is a real test of one's driving ability, especially I-696 heading to Port Huron.
You cannot simulate traction control with a manual car, just like human reaction times are in no way capable of simulating ABS brakes or the like.
Besides, this is swinging the argument towards "older technology is less safe" which is kind of an obvious point. The modern automatic is largely computer controlled and makes much more sensible decisions on when to shift.
That said I drive a Prius and simply love the ECVT because there is no shifting.
I'm willing to bet that experience has less to do with how dangerous someone is behind the wheel than with A) How much someone enjoys driving and How much attention people pay to their driving.
Well, here's the thing: people who enjoy driving are the folks who liked to clamber into their dad's lap as kids, while folks who hate it never even considered getting behind the wheel before they needed to.
Yes, but the fact that they did that is irrelevant.
It illustrates their love of driving, though, and thus implies they are better drivers. I think that's what people mean when they boast about how they drove as kids: they're saying "I'm a good driver because I've loved driving since I was little", not "I'm a good driver because I used to circle my parents' farmyard in a tractor"
Lieberkuhn on
While you eat, let's have a conversation about the nature of consent.
0
Options
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
It illustrates their love of driving, though, and thus implies they are better drivers. I think that's what people mean when they boast about how they drove as kids: they're saying "I'm a good driver because I've loved driving since I was little", not "I'm a good driver because I used to circle my parents' farmyard in a tractor"
I think it implies they want to do whatever daddy or mommy is doing.
Which implies they are going to pick up the bad habits that daddy or mommy have. A person with 0 experience, who has never even seen a car until the day they start training by a professional are going to be much more likely to be better drivers than someone who started out with all the shortcuts someone who has been driving 30 years picks up along the way and then passes on to their children by way of informal education.
I'm willing to bet that experience has less to do with how dangerous someone is behind the wheel than with A) How much someone enjoys driving and How much attention people pay to their driving.
Well, here's the thing: people who enjoy driving are the folks who liked to clamber into their dad's lap as kids, while folks who hate it never even considered getting behind the wheel before they needed to.
Assuming their parents let them of course. Which can be a hell of a stretch.
Also, that Top Gear video is rubbish because he completely ignores that many people drive shitty cars because they can't afford any better.
shryke on
0
Options
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
I'm willing to bet that experience has less to do with how dangerous someone is behind the wheel than with A) How much someone enjoys driving and How much attention people pay to their driving.
Well, here's the thing: people who enjoy driving are the folks who liked to clamber into their dad's lap as kids, while folks who hate it never even considered getting behind the wheel before they needed to.
But that's wrong! You're wrong to say that! Stop promoting these idiotic stereotypes of drivers. It doesn't work like that.
Lieberkühn, I don't see any reason you should give up driving because you almost had an accident after your first few months of driving. People make mistakes while driving all the time, it can happen to anyone if they let their guard down. Most of them are minor and don't lead to accidents, but neither did yours. There are many, many people who have gotten in actual accidents sooner after getting their license than your "near miss," and kept driving anyway (some even become decent drivers!)
It's true that there are some people who just shouldn't drive ever, but it's a very small percentage of drivers. If, say, you had been driving for 2 years and gotten in 6 accidents, that would probably be a sign to stop. But I think if you just don't worry so much about screwing up (which will lead to screwing up) and just get some more experience you will be fine.
No bragging intended, I just wanted to clarify that that was indeed what you were saying, because that's downright silly.
Someone who has been driving for many years naturally will have a quicker response time, and a better feel for things (ie. blind spots, braking distances).
That's nice, but you learn none of that while driving at age 8 in a field. And I'd argue that your body changes so much from there to adulthood that your reflexes and such would be barely keeping up. There are major differences in cognition, perception, and physical ability involved here.
I'm willing to bet that experience has less to do with how dangerous someone is behind the wheel than with A) How much someone enjoys driving and How much attention people pay to their driving.
Well, here's the thing: people who enjoy driving are the folks who liked to clamber into their dad's lap as kids, while folks who hate it never even considered getting behind the wheel before they needed to.
But that's wrong! You're wrong to say that! Stop promoting these idiotic stereotypes of drivers. It doesn't work like that.
Well I hate driving and I never tried to drive before I was forced to start taking lessons; my sister loves driving and she was behind the wheel every chance she could get as a kid. I assumed that was somewhat typical.
Lieberkuhn on
While you eat, let's have a conversation about the nature of consent.
Also, that Top Gear video is rubbish because he completely ignores that many people drive shitty cars because they can't afford any better.
There is that, but I was thinking more along the lines that people that like to drive are more likely to take the time to be better at it.
You don't have to have liked something from infancy though, which is what this ridiculous tangent is about. Seriously, has no-one here made a late discovery about liking an activity they'd never spent much time on before? Never gotten into a new genre of music years after it established itself? Come on.
I'm willing to bet that experience has less to do with how dangerous someone is behind the wheel than with A) How much someone enjoys driving and How much attention people pay to their driving.
Well, here's the thing: people who enjoy driving are the folks who liked to clamber into their dad's lap as kids, while folks who hate it never even considered getting behind the wheel before they needed to.
But that's wrong! You're wrong to say that! Stop promoting these idiotic stereotypes of drivers. It doesn't work like that.
Well I hate driving and I never tried to drive before I was forced to start taking lessons; my sister loves driving and she was behind the wheel every chance she could get as a kid. I assumed that was somewhat typical.
A very poor assumption to make.
The Cat on
0
Options
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
Cat, you and I, we be like this.
Anyway, yeah - I'm a big supporter of proper training. Not like "Hey, boy, get here in mah car. Lemme show you somethin'" training, but "In order to be a licensed driving instructor, you need this government sponsored instructor's training course" training.
I'm willing to bet that experience has less to do with how dangerous someone is behind the wheel than with A) How much someone enjoys driving and How much attention people pay to their driving.
Well, here's the thing: people who enjoy driving are the folks who liked to clamber into their dad's lap as kids, while folks who hate it never even considered getting behind the wheel before they needed to.
But that's wrong! You're wrong to say that! Stop promoting these idiotic stereotypes of drivers. It doesn't work like that.
Well I hate driving and I never tried to drive before I was forced to start taking lessons; my sister loves driving and she was behind the wheel every chance she could get as a kid. I assumed that was somewhat typical.
A very poor assumption to make.
Yeah, I know I'm a fucking retard already thanks
Lieberkuhn on
While you eat, let's have a conversation about the nature of consent.
No bragging intended, I just wanted to clarify that that was indeed what you were saying, because that's downright silly.
Someone who has been driving for many years naturally will have a quicker response time, and a better feel for things (ie. blind spots, braking distances).
That's nice, but you learn none of that while driving at age 8 in a field. And I'd argue that your body changes so much from there to adulthood that your reflexes and such would be barely keeping up. There are major differences in cognition, perception, and physical ability involved here.
Right, that explains why the vast majority sports and music stars started playing their respective sports and instruments in their late teens. Obviously having a kid learn something early on will have no effect on said skill later on in life because of the major changes in cognition, perception, and physical ability.
EDIT: And in regards to the bolded, read my totp
garroad_ran on
0
Options
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
But...most people who drive aren't the sports and music star equivalents. You're talking about Mario Andretti and Michael Shumacher. The average driver is the person playing softball with their friends a couple times a year, or playing Rock Band.
And would you not say that someone who has been playing softball their entire lives is (generally speaking) a better softball player than someone who hasn't?
garroad_ran on
0
Options
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
And would you not say that someone who has been playing softball their entire lives is (generally speaking) a better softball player than someone who hasn't?
No, I wouldn't. The person playing twice a year for 30 years is not as good as the person who took professional lessons and played all summer for one season.
Nova_C on
0
Options
The Black HunterThe key is a minimum of compromise, and a simple,unimpeachable reason to existRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
You guys are actually making this thread stupider
Manual transmissions afford superior control and performance
And would you not say that someone who has been playing softball their entire lives is (generally speaking) a better softball player than someone who hasn't?
No, I wouldn't. The person playing twice a year for 30 years is not as good as the person who took professional lessons and played all summer for one season.
Good, now compare someone who has been playing softball with some regularity for their entire lives, and then takes the same professional lessons and plays all summer for one season.
garroad_ran on
0
Options
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
And would you not say that someone who has been playing softball their entire lives is (generally speaking) a better softball player than someone who hasn't?
No, I wouldn't. The person playing twice a year for 30 years is not as good as the person who took professional lessons and played all summer for one season.
Good, now compare someone who has been playing softball with some regularity for their entire lives, and then takes the same professional lessons and plays all summer for one season.
Then I'd say each person is just as likely to be better than the other.
EDIT: Look, experience is a factor of course, but not necessarily in the way you think. Driving is way too casual these days. People who took drivers ed develop bad habits over the years, they get complacent, they think their experience and record make them better drivers when the only way to be a better driver is to constantly work at improving. That's experience as a benefit.
Unfortunately, most drivers don't do that. They do the minimum not to get pulled over and that's all they're willing to commit. The longer they go without getting killed, arrested or simply banned from driving makes them more and more complacent.
Then you have the few that look at what they do when they drive and try to do it better, safer. Their experience improves them. But they are not common enough to make the statement "Experience = better driving" true.
And would you not say that someone who has been playing softball their entire lives is (generally speaking) a better softball player than someone who hasn't?
No, I wouldn't. The person playing twice a year for 30 years is not as good as the person who took professional lessons and played all summer for one season.
Good, now compare someone who has been playing softball with some regularity for their entire lives, and then takes the same professional lessons and plays all summer for one season.
Then I'd say each person is just as likely to be better than the other.
You have an interesting view of how learning works and how skills are developed. We've reached an impasse.
But...most people who drive aren't the sports and music star equivalents. You're talking about Mario Andretti and Michael Shumacher. The average driver is the person playing softball with their friends a couple times a year, or playing Rock Band.
Also, those little kids training to be tennis prodigies are actually playing tennis, not whacking one of those ball on a string toys in their backyard every other saturday...
But...most people who drive aren't the sports and music star equivalents. You're talking about Mario Andretti and Michael Shumacher. The average driver is the person playing softball with their friends a couple times a year, or playing Rock Band.
Also, those little kids training to be tennis prodigies are actually playing tennis, not whacking one of those ball on a string toys in their backyard every other saturday...
No they aren't. They start by learning to hold the racket. Then how to hit the ball. Eventually they learn to control where the ball is going. Then, maybe, they start playing tennis. (after learning the rules of the game, of course)
Posts
I don't know; my sister constantly drove around in our father's car from a very young age, sometimes in his lap, sometimes joy rides up and down the driveway (which was, like, half a mile long). I meanwhile didn't touch a steering wheel until my first lesson.
My sister passed her test, on the first attempt, a few weeks after starting lessons. I passed my test on the third attempt after a year of lessons, then a few months later nearly got into an accident (100% my fault) and haven't driven since.
There's no way that's a coincidence.
Agreed. You are apparently a bad driver.
Apparently?
I was driving on the wrong side of the road, of course I'm a bad fucking driver
Older automatics don't, and there's millions of them on the roads today.
As for the bolded part: I suggest you take a trip to SE Michigan.
I-696, I-75, and I-94 traffic through Detroit and it's many suburbs, in a torrential downpour, is usually running at about 70mph or faster. Driving through there is a real test of one's driving ability, especially I-696 heading to Port Huron.
Uh, this has probably less to do with length of time experience and more with one's mindset while driving. A person's hand/eye co-ordination is also a factor. In fact, there's a lot of factors concerning the amount of accidents one gets into. Example:
I went 12 years without a single accident. Nada. I bought a new car for the first time ever and it was written off in a major collision 7 or 8 months later. Not my fault, got 100% of my purchase price back from insurance and bought another of the exact same car. Six months later (two weeks ago), some lady driving a Mercedes SUV rammed it while it was parked.
This has nothing to do with my quality has a driver, nor the fact that I own a new car and everything to do with the fact that there are more variables at work than simple experience.
Are you just like, super unconfident about yourself or what?
Because I'm pretty sure just about anyone can become at least a decent driver. I've known some real dumbasses that seem to find it so easy that they think nothing of blabbing on the phone while doing it.
Really, the cause of a lot of accidents is people doing stuff to entertain themselves while driving because it is so fucking boring.
Okay? The sky is also blue. You know. Since we're pointing out the obvious.
Why did my post garner that response?
Yes, but experience steering around traffic-free roads is the kind of thing most kids gain by watching their parents drive from the back seat.
I should point out that I was not a reckless, speedy driver: I was always cautious, obeyed road signs religiously, and refused to let my mind wander. The above was one of the few times it did manage to wander.
Hm, I guess you saw their posts differently than I. I thought they were saying the kind of experience you get sitting on your dad's lap or driving in a .5 mile driveway was pretty useless as an indicator of expertise. Which I agree with.
And people who have been driving for 30 years let their minds wander and do stupid things.
I'm willing to bet that experience has less to do with how dangerous someone is behind the wheel than with A) How much someone enjoys driving and
EDIT: I agree with Clarkson in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASXT7gfkXnw
Well then we'd have to define our terms. Obviously I'm not saying that either of those things by themselves are indicators of expertise, but part of a graduated learning system.
Well, here's the thing: people who enjoy driving are the folks who liked to clamber into their dad's lap as kids, while folks who hate it never even considered getting behind the wheel before they needed to.
Yes, but the fact that they did that is irrelevant.
You cannot simulate traction control with a manual car, just like human reaction times are in no way capable of simulating ABS brakes or the like.
Besides, this is swinging the argument towards "older technology is less safe" which is kind of an obvious point. The modern automatic is largely computer controlled and makes much more sensible decisions on when to shift.
That said I drive a Prius and simply love the ECVT because there is no shifting.
It illustrates their love of driving, though, and thus implies they are better drivers. I think that's what people mean when they boast about how they drove as kids: they're saying "I'm a good driver because I've loved driving since I was little", not "I'm a good driver because I used to circle my parents' farmyard in a tractor"
I think it implies they want to do whatever daddy or mommy is doing.
Which implies they are going to pick up the bad habits that daddy or mommy have. A person with 0 experience, who has never even seen a car until the day they start training by a professional are going to be much more likely to be better drivers than someone who started out with all the shortcuts someone who has been driving 30 years picks up along the way and then passes on to their children by way of informal education.
Holy run on sentence batman.
Assuming their parents let them of course. Which can be a hell of a stretch.
Also, that Top Gear video is rubbish because he completely ignores that many people drive shitty cars because they can't afford any better.
There is that, but I was thinking more along the lines that people that like to drive are more likely to take the time to be better at it.
But that's wrong! You're wrong to say that! Stop promoting these idiotic stereotypes of drivers. It doesn't work like that.
It's true that there are some people who just shouldn't drive ever, but it's a very small percentage of drivers. If, say, you had been driving for 2 years and gotten in 6 accidents, that would probably be a sign to stop. But I think if you just don't worry so much about screwing up (which will lead to screwing up) and just get some more experience you will be fine.
That's nice, but you learn none of that while driving at age 8 in a field. And I'd argue that your body changes so much from there to adulthood that your reflexes and such would be barely keeping up. There are major differences in cognition, perception, and physical ability involved here.
Well I hate driving and I never tried to drive before I was forced to start taking lessons; my sister loves driving and she was behind the wheel every chance she could get as a kid. I assumed that was somewhat typical.
You don't have to have liked something from infancy though, which is what this ridiculous tangent is about. Seriously, has no-one here made a late discovery about liking an activity they'd never spent much time on before? Never gotten into a new genre of music years after it established itself? Come on.
A very poor assumption to make.
Anyway, yeah - I'm a big supporter of proper training. Not like "Hey, boy, get here in mah car. Lemme show you somethin'" training, but "In order to be a licensed driving instructor, you need this government sponsored instructor's training course" training.
Yeah, I know I'm a fucking retard already thanks
Right, that explains why the vast majority sports and music stars started playing their respective sports and instruments in their late teens. Obviously having a kid learn something early on will have no effect on said skill later on in life because of the major changes in cognition, perception, and physical ability.
EDIT: And in regards to the bolded, read my totp
No, I wouldn't. The person playing twice a year for 30 years is not as good as the person who took professional lessons and played all summer for one season.
Manual transmissions afford superior control and performance
But use an automatic if you don't care enough
the end
Good, now compare someone who has been playing softball with some regularity for their entire lives, and then takes the same professional lessons and plays all summer for one season.
Then I'd say each person is just as likely to be better than the other.
EDIT: Look, experience is a factor of course, but not necessarily in the way you think. Driving is way too casual these days. People who took drivers ed develop bad habits over the years, they get complacent, they think their experience and record make them better drivers when the only way to be a better driver is to constantly work at improving. That's experience as a benefit.
Unfortunately, most drivers don't do that. They do the minimum not to get pulled over and that's all they're willing to commit. The longer they go without getting killed, arrested or simply banned from driving makes them more and more complacent.
Then you have the few that look at what they do when they drive and try to do it better, safer. Their experience improves them. But they are not common enough to make the statement "Experience = better driving" true.
You have an interesting view of how learning works and how skills are developed. We've reached an impasse.
Also, those little kids training to be tennis prodigies are actually playing tennis, not whacking one of those ball on a string toys in their backyard every other saturday...
No they aren't. They start by learning to hold the racket. Then how to hit the ball. Eventually they learn to control where the ball is going. Then, maybe, they start playing tennis. (after learning the rules of the game, of course)