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A bunch of odd questions that Google sucked at answering...

powersspowerss Registered User regular
edited July 2010 in Help / Advice Forum
I know these are going to seem like a "what the hell, bro" but - really - can someone please tell me why/how:

What is the reasoning behind the spelling of "Philippines" but a person is "Filipino" - Ph to F? Any reason? I've gone ahead and usually just written Philipino.

I do not understand the phrase "pot called the kettle black" or whatever it is. No one can explain it to me in any way that makes sense.

When you fire a gun into the air, I know many have been told/it's been said that the bullet comes down with the same force as it left the gun. This seems completely idiotic to me...

Do fish "drink" water? Do they posses some sort of Sodium filtering mechanism, or simply hydrate through osmosis?

Yes I know... odd group of questions.

powerss on
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    MidshipmanMidshipman Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    powerss wrote: »
    I do not understand the phrase "pot called the kettle black" or whatever it is. No one can explain it to me in any way that makes sense.

    That saying is used to point out the hypocrisy of someone's position. Both pots and kettles frequently used to be made out of cast iron, and were thus both equally black.
    When you fire a gun into the air, I know many have been told/it's been said that the bullet comes down with the same force as it left the gun. This seems completely idiotic to me...

    It comes down with less force (energy or momentum actually), but it still comes down with enough energy to kill someone. Some of the energy is lost to friction, but the rest is converted into gravitational potential energy on the way up, and then returns to kinetic energy on the way back down.

    Midshipman on
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    powersspowerss Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Midshipman wrote: »
    powerss wrote: »
    I do not understand the phrase "pot called the kettle black" or whatever it is. No one can explain it to me in any way that makes sense.

    That saying is used to point out the hypocrisy of someone's position. Both pots and kettles frequently used to be made out of cast iron, and were thus both equally black.
    When you fire a gun into the air, I know many have been told/it's been said that the bullet comes down with the same force as it left the gun. This seems completely idiotic to me...

    It comes down with less force (energy or momentum actually), but it still comes down with enough energy to kill someone. Some of the energy is lost to friction, but the rest is converted into gravitational potential energy on the way up, and then returns to kinetic energy on the way back down.

    Wait, so - terminal velocity of a bullet falling (because it stops - however briefly - to fall back down again) is enough to kill someone?

    powerss on
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    Last SonLast Son Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    powerss wrote: »
    I do not understand the phrase "pot called the kettle black" or whatever it is. No one can explain it to me in any way that makes sense.

    The phrase is used when a person accuses someone of a trait that the accuser has. IE: an extremely vain person telling someone they care too much about their appearance. Pots and kettles were both generally black.

    No idea where the phrase actually originated though.
    When you fire a gun into the air, I know many have been told/it's been said that the bullet comes down with the same force as it left the gun. This seems completely idiotic to me...

    There was a mythbusters episode about this. The bullet doesn't come down with the same force as when it was shot but it does come down with enough force to serious wound/kill a person.

    Last Son on
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    SeolSeol Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    powerss wrote: »
    Wait, so - terminal velocity of a bullet falling (because it stops - however briefly - to fall back down again) is enough to kill someone?
    Of course terminal velocity is enough to kill. It's terminal.

    Seol on
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    Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    When you fire a bullet straight up, gravity immediately begins acting on it. When the force of gravity reduces it's velocity to zero, it begins falling. Because the force of gravity is the same when it's going up as it is when it's going down, it will take the same amount of time to fall as it did to go up, and do so with the same force.

    That isn't quite accurate, of course, because the behavior of the bullet is modified by wind resistance and probably other factors, but the momentum a bullet has at terminal velocity is still more than enough to kill someone.

    ---

    Fish possess gills, organs which draw oxygen from the surrounding water. They presumably "keep" enough water for bodily function, as well as drawing moisture from their food as most animals do.

    ---

    As to the Ph/Filipino question, google yields some interesting results, but, to summarize: when the spanish initially colonized the phillipines, they named it Las Islas Filipinas. Spaniards born on that island were referred to as 'filipinos.' The F consonant is foreign to the native language of the islands, though, and the natives pronounced and spelled it Pilipino (this spelling still appears on local currency and so on.) The 'phi' construction is probably a result of english speakers reconciling the spanish pronunciation with the native one. Over time, the term 'filipino' came to refer to the language, while pilipino came to refer to the people, although again english speakers use 'filipino' for both interchangeably.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
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    Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    It's worth mentioning that the whole "can a falling bullet kill someone" thing is not a purely theoretical exercise. In third world countries where festivities such as weddings are still regularly celebrated with gunfire, there have been documented cases of people being killed or maimed by falling bullets.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
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    RUNN1NGMANRUNN1NGMAN Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    For fish, it depends on whether it's a fresh water or salt water fish. Fresh water fish get enough hydration through osmosis. Salt water fish have to "drink" large amounts of water, and then their bodies process the ions and excrete them from the gills and in their urine. This is because most salt water fish are constantly losing water through osmosis.

    RUNN1NGMAN on
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    HyperAquaBlastHyperAquaBlast Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    It's worth mentioning that the whole "can a falling bullet kill someone" thing is not a purely theoretical exercise. In third world countries where festivities such as weddings are still regularly celebrated with gunfire, there have been documented cases of people being killed or maimed by falling bullets.

    Mythbusters did a pretty good thing on it. At TV a 9mm could do some ok damage to a persons skull but no where near to full effect since all the energy it had is gone. If it fires straight up and comes straight down.

    Now if its fired at an arc then it keeps a lot of its ballistic energy. Thats is usually when people get killed by stray bullets.

    HyperAquaBlast on
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    Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against Russian warships) Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Also, if I remember 'documented cases' that have made the news in the past, it was ricochets that were the killers, since those will have a lot more 'oomph' behind them then a falling bullet.

    Gabriel_Pitt on
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    DrowsDrows Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Now matter how hard it was shot to begin with, past a certain height the falling bullet will reach a constant speed where wind resistance and and acceleration from gravity cancel each other out.

    The bullet would only come down with the same force as when it left the gun under one circumstance: the gun happened to fire it at exactly the bullet's terminal velocity. Don't know whether that is a reasonable speed for a gun to fire at or not, but it's unlikely because at the very least different guns and different bullets will fire at different speeds, and the terminal velocity is specific to the bullet alone.

    Edit: Zoolander has it better, in the above case the bullet would land at less than TV now that I think about it.

    Drows on
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    ZoolanderZoolander Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Actually the only time a bullet would come down with the same force as it left the gun is in a vacuum. In real life air resistance will always dissipate energy from the bullet, ensuring that it comes down with less energy and speed than it had going up.

    Zoolander on
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    RuckusRuckus Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    It's worth mentioning that the whole "can a falling bullet kill someone" thing is not a purely theoretical exercise. In third world countries where festivities such as weddings are still regularly celebrated with gunfire, there have been documented cases of people being killed or maimed by falling bullets.

    Third world countries like Texas. Also Louisiana (Seriously, there have been documented cases of deaths and injuries in both states due to falling bullets).

    Terminal velocity for a typical handgun or rifle round would be around 300 feet per second, with when you factor in the weight of the projectile (about 10 grams), is enough to pierce human flesh. Hit in the right spot, it could be fatal, but odds are it would just hurt a lot and result in a flesh wound.

    "Pot calling the kettle black" is a metaphor for hypocrisy, in yonder olde dayes both pots and kettles would be used by hanging them in the fireplace (over the fire), thus both would be blackened with soot.

    As for PH versus F? Probably just one of those lingual oddities that occurred in the way the words/language was anglicized, and probably has something to do with Americans.

    Don't know about the fish though.

    Ruckus on
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    WezoinWezoin Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    On the fish note, fish 'breathe' by pulling in water through their mouth, filtering the oxygen out, and pushing the water out their gills. My best guess would be that in this process if they are 'thirsty' some of that water would be absorbed.

    Wezoin on
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    Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against Russian warships) Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    You're really making this harder than it needs to be. Why wouldn't water enter through the digestive system like it does with the rest of us? Fish swallow water when they eat. They absorb what they need and excrete what they don't.

    Gabriel_Pitt on
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    3drage3drage Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    It's amazing that Mythbusters gave significant time to the idea that a bullet can kill a person when it falls, yet still the majority of people posting get it wrong.

    I agree, odd group of questions. :)

    3drage on
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    SevorakSevorak Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    powerss wrote: »
    What is the reasoning behind the spelling of "Philippines" but a person is "Filipino" - Ph to F? Any reason? I've gone ahead and usually just written Philipino.

    Careful with that. I'm fairly sure this could offend some of the more conservative/up-tight Filipinos out there.

    Sevorak on
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    fightinfilipinofightinfilipino Angry as Hell #BLMRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    powerss wrote: »
    What is the reasoning behind the spelling of "Philippines" but a person is "Filipino" - Ph to F? Any reason?
    question's already been answered, buuuuut
    I've gone ahead and usually just written Philipino.

    yeah, don't do this. it's "filipino". "pilipino" if you want to refer to the official national language.

    fightinfilipino on
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    DrunkMcDrunkMc Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    It's worth mentioning that the whole "can a falling bullet kill someone" thing is not a purely theoretical exercise. In third world countries where festivities such as weddings are still regularly celebrated with gunfire, there have been documented cases of people being killed or maimed by falling bullets.

    Mythbusters did a pretty good thing on it. At TV a 9mm could do some ok damage to a persons skull but no where near to full effect since all the energy it had is gone. If it fires straight up and comes straight down.

    Now if its fired at an arc then it keeps a lot of its ballistic energy. Thats is usually when people get killed by stray bullets.

    It's the difference between the y-velocities and the x-velocities. If you fire a bullet at a perfect 90 degree angle (x-velocity will be 0) when the bullet hits the person on the head it will be pure y-velocity (created by Gravity) which will be the terminal velocity of a bullet. This isn't enough to kill someone.

    If you however fire at an angle, the X-velocity will only be slowed down by Wind resistance (minimal). This is the velocity that will kill a person.

    Like people have said, Mythbusters spelt this out for people. One of my favorites.

    DrunkMc on
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    SeolSeol Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    DrunkMc wrote: »
    It's the difference between the y-velocities and the x-velocities. If you fire a bullet at a perfect 90 degree angle (x-velocity will be 0) when the bullet hits the person on the head it will be pure y-velocity (created by Gravity) which will be the terminal velocity of a bullet. This isn't enough to kill someone.

    If you however fire at an angle, the X-velocity will only be slowed down by Wind resistance (minimal). This is the velocity that will kill a person..
    The y-velocity is only being slowed by air resistance, too. The difference being that if you fire straight up, it'll be in the air a lot longer, so the air resistance will have a larger effect.

    Seol on
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    SpacemilkSpacemilk Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Seol wrote: »
    DrunkMc wrote: »
    It's the difference between the y-velocities and the x-velocities. If you fire a bullet at a perfect 90 degree angle (x-velocity will be 0) when the bullet hits the person on the head it will be pure y-velocity (created by Gravity) which will be the terminal velocity of a bullet. This isn't enough to kill someone.

    If you however fire at an angle, the X-velocity will only be slowed down by Wind resistance (minimal). This is the velocity that will kill a person..
    The y-velocity is only being slowed by air resistance, too. The difference being that if you fire straight up, it'll be in the air a lot longer, so the air resistance will have a larger effect.
    I don't think this is right.

    edit: the key is "terminal velocity"

    Spacemilk on
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    SeolSeol Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Spacemilk wrote: »
    Seol wrote: »
    DrunkMc wrote: »
    It's the difference between the y-velocities and the x-velocities. If you fire a bullet at a perfect 90 degree angle (x-velocity will be 0) when the bullet hits the person on the head it will be pure y-velocity (created by Gravity) which will be the terminal velocity of a bullet. This isn't enough to kill someone.

    If you however fire at an angle, the X-velocity will only be slowed down by Wind resistance (minimal). This is the velocity that will kill a person..
    The y-velocity is only being slowed by air resistance, too. The difference being that if you fire straight up, it'll be in the air a lot longer, so the air resistance will have a larger effect.
    I don't think this is right.

    edit: the key is "terminal velocity"
    OK, the y-velocity is only being inhibited by air resistance. That's what imposes terminal velocity, when gravity and air resistance are balanced forces so there's no further acceleration. In either case, energy is being lost to air resistance and only to air resistance, but less is lost in a horizontal arc because it's not in the air as long.

    Seol on
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    SpacemilkSpacemilk Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Seol wrote: »
    Spacemilk wrote: »
    Seol wrote: »
    DrunkMc wrote: »
    It's the difference between the y-velocities and the x-velocities. If you fire a bullet at a perfect 90 degree angle (x-velocity will be 0) when the bullet hits the person on the head it will be pure y-velocity (created by Gravity) which will be the terminal velocity of a bullet. This isn't enough to kill someone.

    If you however fire at an angle, the X-velocity will only be slowed down by Wind resistance (minimal). This is the velocity that will kill a person..
    The y-velocity is only being slowed by air resistance, too. The difference being that if you fire straight up, it'll be in the air a lot longer, so the air resistance will have a larger effect.
    I don't think this is right.

    edit: the key is "terminal velocity"
    OK, the y-velocity is only being inhibited by air resistance. That's what imposes terminal velocity, when gravity and air resistance are balanced forces so there's no further acceleration. In either case, energy is being lost to air resistance and only to air resistance, but less is lost in a horizontal arc because it's not in the air as long.
    Yeah but I think air resistance is pretty minimal. Granted it's going to be different but it's like the difference between .0001 and .0002 - different, but compared to other forces it's very marginal. It's not even vaguely related to the reason why one will kill and one won't. It's basically equivalent to a rounding error when asking this question.

    Spacemilk on
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    SeolSeol Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Spacemilk wrote: »
    Seol wrote: »
    OK, the y-velocity is only being inhibited by air resistance. That's what imposes terminal velocity, when gravity and air resistance are balanced forces so there's no further acceleration. In either case, energy is being lost to air resistance and only to air resistance, but less is lost in a horizontal arc because it's not in the air as long.
    Yeah but I think air resistance is pretty minimal. Granted it's going to be different but it's like the difference between .0001 and .0002 - different, but compared to other forces it's very marginal. It's not even vaguely related to the reason why one will kill and one won't. It's basically equivalent to a rounding error when asking this question.
    Um, except that air resistance is the reason one will kill and one won't. Air resistance is what imposes a terminal velocity on the bullet. What's interesting is that the same effect is in play when you shoot on a long horizontal arc, or for that matter straight in the face from 18 feet - but in the latter case it's entirely negligible, because it's not applied for as long.

    So, sure, the air resistance is negligible, except when it's not.

    Seol on
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    powersspowerss Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    powerss wrote: »
    What is the reasoning behind the spelling of "Philippines" but a person is "Filipino" - Ph to F? Any reason?
    question's already been answered, buuuuut
    I've gone ahead and usually just written Philipino.

    yeah, don't do this. it's "filipino". "pilipino" if you want to refer to the official national language.

    This is almost precisely why I find it so amusing, and why I don't do it. No one can give me a good answer (except the above one)

    powerss on
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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited July 2010
    Seol wrote: »
    powerss wrote: »
    Wait, so - terminal velocity of a bullet falling (because it stops - however briefly - to fall back down again) is enough to kill someone?
    Of course terminal velocity is enough to kill. It's terminal.

    That's not what terminal means. It means that it's attained its maximum speed due to friction from the medium through which it travels.

    The terminal velocity of a piece of paper could possibly give some paper cuts.

    Echo on
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    RuckusRuckus Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Echo wrote: »
    Seol wrote: »
    powerss wrote: »
    Wait, so - terminal velocity of a bullet falling (because it stops - however briefly - to fall back down again) is enough to kill someone?
    Of course terminal velocity is enough to kill. It's terminal.

    That's not what terminal means. It means that it's attained its maximum speed due to friction from the medium through which it travels.

    The terminal velocity of a piece of paper could possibly give some paper cuts.

    *Whooshing sounds*
    I'm inferring that the joke of his post is whooshing over your head

    Ruckus on
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    fightinfilipinofightinfilipino Angry as Hell #BLMRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    powerss wrote: »
    powerss wrote: »
    What is the reasoning behind the spelling of "Philippines" but a person is "Filipino" - Ph to F? Any reason?
    question's already been answered, buuuuut
    I've gone ahead and usually just written Philipino.

    yeah, don't do this. it's "filipino". "pilipino" if you want to refer to the official national language.

    This is almost precisely why I find it so amusing, and why I don't do it. No one can give me a good answer (except the above one)

    ok, so now you have a good answer.

    and for most people of filipino descent, it's annoying as fuck when people write it out as "philipino" or "philippino" or any other variant.

    fightinfilipino on
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    DrunkMcDrunkMc Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Seol wrote: »
    DrunkMc wrote: »
    It's the difference between the y-velocities and the x-velocities. If you fire a bullet at a perfect 90 degree angle (x-velocity will be 0) when the bullet hits the person on the head it will be pure y-velocity (created by Gravity) which will be the terminal velocity of a bullet. This isn't enough to kill someone.

    If you however fire at an angle, the X-velocity will only be slowed down by Wind resistance (minimal). This is the velocity that will kill a person..
    The y-velocity is only being slowed by air resistance, too. The difference being that if you fire straight up, it'll be in the air a lot longer, so the air resistance will have a larger effect.

    That's not true. Y-velocity is being slowed by gravity as well. Till it reaches zero, then gravity will be the force speeding up the y-velocity (in -direction) until it reaches terminal velocity.

    DrunkMc on
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    SeolSeol Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    DrunkMc wrote: »
    Seol wrote: »
    DrunkMc wrote: »
    It's the difference between the y-velocities and the x-velocities. If you fire a bullet at a perfect 90 degree angle (x-velocity will be 0) when the bullet hits the person on the head it will be pure y-velocity (created by Gravity) which will be the terminal velocity of a bullet. This isn't enough to kill someone.

    If you however fire at an angle, the X-velocity will only be slowed down by Wind resistance (minimal). This is the velocity that will kill a person..
    The y-velocity is only being slowed by air resistance, too. The difference being that if you fire straight up, it'll be in the air a lot longer, so the air resistance will have a larger effect.
    That's not true. Y-velocity is being slowed by gravity as well. Till it reaches zero, then gravity will be the force speeding up the y-velocity (in -direction) until it reaches terminal velocity.
    Every unit of energy it loses through gravity, it regains on the way down. Gravity has no net effect on the eventual energy of the bullet (assuming it lands at the same height as it was fired from).

    Seol on
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    powerss wrote: »
    Do fish "drink" water? Do they posses some sort of Sodium filtering mechanism, or simply hydrate through osmosis?

    All of the above.

    Most saltwater fish have membranous barriers in their gills/skin/digestive tract to prevent at least some salt entry while allowing in water, and fish in general regulate salt levels with their kidneys just like humans do.


    Edit: Also, just to reiterate, gravity is not what causes terminal velocity, wind resistance is. If you fired a bullet directly upwards in a vacuum, it would come down at the same speed you shot it at. Terminal velocity is only a concept which applies in an atmosphere.

    Jealous Deva on
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    the wookthe wook Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Also, just to reiterate, gravity is not what causes terminal velocity, wind resistance is.

    pretty sure both are required

    the wook on
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    SeolSeol Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Gravity causes the velocity, air resistance the terminal.

    Seol on
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    ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Seol wrote: »
    Gravity causes the velocity, air resistance the terminal.

    Gravity causes the acceleration
    :P

    Improvolone on
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    Last SonLast Son Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Seol wrote: »
    DrunkMc wrote: »
    Seol wrote: »
    DrunkMc wrote: »
    It's the difference between the y-velocities and the x-velocities. If you fire a bullet at a perfect 90 degree angle (x-velocity will be 0) when the bullet hits the person on the head it will be pure y-velocity (created by Gravity) which will be the terminal velocity of a bullet. This isn't enough to kill someone.

    If you however fire at an angle, the X-velocity will only be slowed down by Wind resistance (minimal). This is the velocity that will kill a person..
    The y-velocity is only being slowed by air resistance, too. The difference being that if you fire straight up, it'll be in the air a lot longer, so the air resistance will have a larger effect.
    That's not true. Y-velocity is being slowed by gravity as well. Till it reaches zero, then gravity will be the force speeding up the y-velocity (in -direction) until it reaches terminal velocity.
    Every unit of energy it loses through gravity, it regains on the way down. Gravity has no net effect on the eventual energy of the bullet (assuming it lands at the same height as it was fired from).

    Guns fire bullets at far above terminal velocity(about 8x-10x higher). A bullet falling will have significantly less force behind it than if you shot someone directly.

    Last Son on
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    SeolSeol Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Seol wrote: »
    Gravity causes the velocity, air resistance the terminal.

    Gravity causes the acceleration
    :P
    "Gravity causes acceleration, which when integrated with respect to time, results in a momentary velocity; however air resistance provides a counterbalancing effect in proportion to that velocity which defines the point at which that velocity becomes terminal" may be more accurate, but it isn't nearly as snappy.

    Seol on
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    ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Technically accurate is the best kind.

    Improvolone on
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    SeolSeol Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Last Son wrote: »
    Guns fire bullets at far above terminal velocity(about 8x-10x higher). A bullet falling will have significantly less force behind it than if you shot someone directly.
    Yep. So it loses whole bunch of energy. What does it lose that energy to?

    Air resistance.

    Why doesn't that air resistance affect bullets shot directly to the same extent? Because the bullet spends a lot less time travelling through the air.

    What's your point here?

    Seol on
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    strebaliciousstrebalicious Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    On the whole Philippines/Filipino thing. Philippines is the US spelling, but the native spelling is Pilipinas. So they just chose Filipino/Filipina to differentiate them. Like the Netherlands/Dutch thing. But I did learn something new. Filipino is the official language, but I've only ever heard it called Tagalog, which is apparently what it's based on and it's what I hear every Filipino call it.

    I guess it's one of those side effects of being occupied by numerous different countries over the years.

    strebalicious on
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    SpindizzySpindizzy Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Regarding the bullet thing - recent daily fact on the BBC website from QI:

    'A bullet fired straight up in the air loses about 90% of its speed on the way back down, giving it the energy of a brick dropped from a height of about four feet.'

    do with this as you will.

    Spindizzy on
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    SeolSeol Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Spindizzy wrote: »
    Regarding the bullet thing - recent daily fact on the BBC website from QI:

    'A bullet fired straight up in the air loses about 90% of its speed on the way back down, giving it the energy of a brick dropped from a height of about four feet.'

    do with this as you will.
    Well. A brick's got a hell of a lot more mass. It's not just energy, it's also the pressure applied - the reduced surface area of the bullet gives it a lot more penetrating power.

    You could just as easily say that a bullet fired straight up has the energy of a four-door saloon moving at one mile per hour. Might be true, doesn't actually tell you anything.

    Seol on
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