Sounds like the reasonable thing to do here is to speak to the administrative folks about the issue of the girls being uncomfortable around this guy and make the suggestion that you could have a talk with him so that he understands the seriousness of what he was doing and the consequences that could arise from it if he chooses to continue acting this way. They'll say 'yes' or 'no' but it will clear the OP of any responsibility thereafter.
For what it's worth, I'm not really looking to be "cleared of responsibility", I'm looking to do right by these girls. Technically, my responsibility was fulfilled as soon as I mentioned the matter to my supervisor.
What more do you think you need to do to do right by them? Honestly, I think you're way overreacting. If he's being a creeper, just asking him to lay off should be enough. I don't think you have a responsibility to anyone to do anything here. It's barely voyeurism, and it certainly isn't child pornography.
Sounds like the reasonable thing to do here is to speak to the administrative folks about the issue of the girls being uncomfortable around this guy and make the suggestion that you could have a talk with him so that he understands the seriousness of what he was doing and the consequences that could arise from it if he chooses to continue acting this way. They'll say 'yes' or 'no' but it will clear the OP of any responsibility thereafter.
For what it's worth, I'm not really looking to be "cleared of responsibility", I'm looking to do right by these girls. Technically, my responsibility was fulfilled as soon as I mentioned the matter to my supervisor.
Honestly just stop dude. You've done good by making sure someone of authority knows, your job here is done.
Sounds like the reasonable thing to do here is to speak to the administrative folks about the issue of the girls being uncomfortable around this guy and make the suggestion that you could have a talk with him so that he understands the seriousness of what he was doing and the consequences that could arise from it if he chooses to continue acting this way. They'll say 'yes' or 'no' but it will clear the OP of any responsibility thereafter.
For what it's worth, I'm not really looking to be "cleared of responsibility", I'm looking to do right by these girls. Technically, my responsibility was fulfilled as soon as I mentioned the matter to my supervisor.
Honestly just stop dude. You've done good by making sure someone of authority knows, your job here is done.
Haha, it was just a clarification of intent. Wasn't trying to sound all CONSTANT VIGILANCE or anything. :P
1) Anything underage/child-pornography/pedophile related should just stop right here. The guy is 18, the girl was 17, he does not deserve to be labeled a pedophile or be busted for having underage porn. Pursuing anything down this avenue would be abusing laws intended for more serious offenses. Yes technically she is underage and he could get in very serious trouble, but I certainly don't think he is a pedophile or deserves those charges.
2) I also don't think you should be content with your superiors covering it up, IF it happens again. The whole good men doing nothing thing. If he continues to behave this way there should be consequences.
3) Since the details of the event are hazy, mostly I would say you should take the advice of a previous poster and find the student harassment office. They should have a good idea of how to deal with these types of situations.
Jebus314 on
"The world is a mess, and I just need to rule it" - Dr Horrible
The act itself was creepy, but no, a 18 year old taking a picture of a 17 year old is not child porn.
Looking through the phone like that was a silly move and wouldn't have been admissable anyway. You didn't have a warrant, and you didn't ask to look through his pictures, only to use it for a call. And not only that, you did it after they told you the university attorney was looking into it. IRL Detective is just as bad as being an internet detective. You are not the law. Leave that stuff to actual trained detectives. If he was a serial peeping tom, you could have jeopardized the entire thing.
If the girls don't want to have to interact with him, they can tell him to not do so or acquire a protection order. Trying to give a "man talk" to him like that is sweeping it under the rug just as much as you think the administration is doing. If you feel he is a threat, you know, we have legal tools to assist them with that.
"borrowing" his phone and looking through his pictures doesn't seem right to me. I'm not sure you can bring that up to the authorities.
Mostly because it's illegal in many countries, including (if I remember right and recent legislation hasn't changed it) under US Federal law. Observing things openly on display is fine, but any 'intrusive' observation such as wire tapping, secret recording, or using false pretences to acquire material is illegal without authorisation (police / federal agencies) or a license to practice (private investigators). This applies even if it has been willingly given, unless you asked for it by saying "can I have your phone to look at the upskirt picture you took". So, no, don't tell the police about that bit.
Then again, don't tell the police about any of it. He's an 18 year old boy being a (slightly creepy) 18 year old boy. Trying to report him for a sex offence is so far into the overreaction stratosphere I wonder how much more mature than him you are. If he is freaking the girls out, then a) they need to tell him to fuck off / shun him / spread penis rumours and generally stand up for themselves, and if that doesn't work b) you need to sit him down, give him a warning, and say you'll report him to administration / discipline him if it happens again.
In other words behave like an adult, not an ambulance chaser.
Also grabbing the phone like that, they can just say "well, you put that on there when you had possession".
When actual detectives acquire a phone, there's stringent procedures done to demonstrate that nothing was added after the fact by them. All he has to say is that he walked out of the room while you were using it. Another reason why being a vigilante can goose up things.
Mature enough not to care about internet folk casting doubts about my maturity. *shrug*
Gandalf_the_Crazed on
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
edited July 2010
You've done a good thing by bringing it to the attention of your supervisors. You've witnessed that it was brought up with the student, and that he claims he erased the photo and apologized to the girl.
Your work is done unless she wants to file a complaint with the school, in which case you can offer to be a witness to the situation.
If she doesn't want to pursue it, then it's no longer your problem.
Oh, you don't work there anymore? Yeah, you're done. You've done your duty, reported it to the proper people. Not your responsibility in the slightest anymore.
Regarding looking at the pictures on the guys phone, I know this is only anecdotal evidence, but during one of my School of Education classes I was informed that if I took up a phone in class I was allowed to look through anything that wasn't password protected as the student has no expectation of privacy. Granted, this is in Oklahoma, for public school teachers, and all such laws differ state to state.
I think I'm getting an idea of what's going on here-women in distress, man wants to show how tough he is by slaying the dragon and rescuing the princess.
Get rid of the hero complex and treat the people involved like real adults (or at least more like adults than children)
Sounds like the reasonable thing to do here is to speak to the administrative folks about the issue of the girls being uncomfortable around this guy and make the suggestion that you could have a talk with him so that he understands the seriousness of what he was doing and the consequences that could arise from it if he chooses to continue acting this way. They'll say 'yes' or 'no' but it will clear the OP of any responsibility thereafter.
For what it's worth, I'm not really looking to be "cleared of responsibility", I'm looking to do right by these girls. Technically, my responsibility was fulfilled as soon as I mentioned the matter to my supervisor.
While your thought process here is admirable, this kind of situation can't be resolved properly with you as a middleman. In California at least, in order for the continued creepiness (not the initial photo) to "count" as harassment, it would need to be reported by the offended party (the girls) directly to the person (the scumbag) or his direct supervisor. The most you could do in this situation is to encourage the girls to make a report, or be a witness to them telling him they find his behavior unacceptable. This would then probably result in him being required to take sensitivity training and receiving a warning.
Please remember that this situation is not about you. You've mentioned that you're not concerned about personal repercussions, which is fine, but if you want to do more then your focus should be on making sure the right thing happens without you being a part of it, as that will lead to the most robust long-term solution.
Dropping Loads on
Sceptre: Penny Arcade, where you get starcraft AND marriage advice.
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
The kid got lectured and was forced to apologize to the girl. That's pretty humiliating. How is this not done with? Is it some sort of moral imperative of yours to make sure that this person goes to jail?
The kid got lectured and was forced to apologize to the girl. That's pretty humiliating. How is this not done with? Is it some sort of moral imperative of yours to make sure that this person goes to jail?
I groped a girl once and had to apologize to her and her parents. It was a truly humiliating and humbling experience. Take it from me, no more needs to be done.
Our prisons are already overflowing with people. I suggest you end your crusade.
The kid got lectured and was forced to apologize to the girl. That's pretty humiliating. How is this not done with? Is it some sort of moral imperative of yours to make sure that this person goes to jail?
This, basically, if he's been publicly ( even minorly ) exposed/reprimanded, he'll either calm down and smarten up, or goose it all up in an even bigger manner and be dealt with that way.
Don't really see the need to try and jail him or label him a sex offender, as that will stick with him long after he gets over being a retarded teenager. Pushing any farther does seem more like White Knighting than general concern.
Also, I will be forever sad to learn I will never be able to take a class in Gopher Gestation taught by Batman.
To allay your concerns, yes, I did pretty much exactly what you all have just suggested -- got out of the situation and let the girl handle it directly. That was always the goal, but as long as she was asking for help/support (for lack of a better word), that was what she got. *shrug*
Thank you for the condescension, btw, FirstComradeStalin. :^:
Posts
What more do you think you need to do to do right by them? Honestly, I think you're way overreacting. If he's being a creeper, just asking him to lay off should be enough. I don't think you have a responsibility to anyone to do anything here. It's barely voyeurism, and it certainly isn't child pornography.
Honestly just stop dude. You've done good by making sure someone of authority knows, your job here is done.
Haha, it was just a clarification of intent. Wasn't trying to sound all CONSTANT VIGILANCE or anything. :P
1) Anything underage/child-pornography/pedophile related should just stop right here. The guy is 18, the girl was 17, he does not deserve to be labeled a pedophile or be busted for having underage porn. Pursuing anything down this avenue would be abusing laws intended for more serious offenses. Yes technically she is underage and he could get in very serious trouble, but I certainly don't think he is a pedophile or deserves those charges.
2) I also don't think you should be content with your superiors covering it up, IF it happens again. The whole good men doing nothing thing. If he continues to behave this way there should be consequences.
3) Since the details of the event are hazy, mostly I would say you should take the advice of a previous poster and find the student harassment office. They should have a good idea of how to deal with these types of situations.
Looking through the phone like that was a silly move and wouldn't have been admissable anyway. You didn't have a warrant, and you didn't ask to look through his pictures, only to use it for a call. And not only that, you did it after they told you the university attorney was looking into it. IRL Detective is just as bad as being an internet detective. You are not the law. Leave that stuff to actual trained detectives. If he was a serial peeping tom, you could have jeopardized the entire thing.
If the girls don't want to have to interact with him, they can tell him to not do so or acquire a protection order. Trying to give a "man talk" to him like that is sweeping it under the rug just as much as you think the administration is doing. If you feel he is a threat, you know, we have legal tools to assist them with that.
Mostly because it's illegal in many countries, including (if I remember right and recent legislation hasn't changed it) under US Federal law. Observing things openly on display is fine, but any 'intrusive' observation such as wire tapping, secret recording, or using false pretences to acquire material is illegal without authorisation (police / federal agencies) or a license to practice (private investigators). This applies even if it has been willingly given, unless you asked for it by saying "can I have your phone to look at the upskirt picture you took". So, no, don't tell the police about that bit.
Then again, don't tell the police about any of it. He's an 18 year old boy being a (slightly creepy) 18 year old boy. Trying to report him for a sex offence is so far into the overreaction stratosphere I wonder how much more mature than him you are. If he is freaking the girls out, then a) they need to tell him to fuck off / shun him / spread penis rumours and generally stand up for themselves, and if that doesn't work b) you need to sit him down, give him a warning, and say you'll report him to administration / discipline him if it happens again.
In other words behave like an adult, not an ambulance chaser.
When actual detectives acquire a phone, there's stringent procedures done to demonstrate that nothing was added after the fact by them. All he has to say is that he walked out of the room while you were using it. Another reason why being a vigilante can goose up things.
Mature enough not to care about internet folk casting doubts about my maturity. *shrug*
Your work is done unless she wants to file a complaint with the school, in which case you can offer to be a witness to the situation.
If she doesn't want to pursue it, then it's no longer your problem.
Last I checked, the OP isn't a court of law.
Well it's sort of a dick thing to do otherwise.
Get rid of the hero complex and treat the people involved like real adults (or at least more like adults than children)
While your thought process here is admirable, this kind of situation can't be resolved properly with you as a middleman. In California at least, in order for the continued creepiness (not the initial photo) to "count" as harassment, it would need to be reported by the offended party (the girls) directly to the person (the scumbag) or his direct supervisor. The most you could do in this situation is to encourage the girls to make a report, or be a witness to them telling him they find his behavior unacceptable. This would then probably result in him being required to take sensitivity training and receiving a warning.
Please remember that this situation is not about you. You've mentioned that you're not concerned about personal repercussions, which is fine, but if you want to do more then your focus should be on making sure the right thing happens without you being a part of it, as that will lead to the most robust long-term solution.
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
I groped a girl once and had to apologize to her and her parents. It was a truly humiliating and humbling experience. Take it from me, no more needs to be done.
Our prisons are already overflowing with people. I suggest you end your crusade.
This, basically, if he's been publicly ( even minorly ) exposed/reprimanded, he'll either calm down and smarten up, or goose it all up in an even bigger manner and be dealt with that way.
Don't really see the need to try and jail him or label him a sex offender, as that will stick with him long after he gets over being a retarded teenager. Pushing any farther does seem more like White Knighting than general concern.
Also, I will be forever sad to learn I will never be able to take a class in Gopher Gestation taught by Batman.
To allay your concerns, yes, I did pretty much exactly what you all have just suggested -- got out of the situation and let the girl handle it directly. That was always the goal, but as long as she was asking for help/support (for lack of a better word), that was what she got. *shrug*
Thank you for the condescension, btw, FirstComradeStalin. :^: