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Finding a Job after being fired for Gross Misconduct

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Posts

  • Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    You guys make it sound like they're going to put him under a spot light and make him sweat out every detail about his medical condition.

    Most place have a HR department filter out applications, and usually by the time they're ready to interview you it is an %80 chance they're going to hire you. I'm willing wager that they wont even bring up your past work history.

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  • GungHoGungHo Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    If you really want to know what sort of reference Wal Mart is going to give you, have a friend pretend to be a manager for something and call them up.

    definitely never ever do that

    Question: what is bad about this?

    It's unethical?

    "Adios, mofo" -- TX Gov Rick Perry (R)
  • MrMonroeMrMonroe Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    GungHo wrote: »
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    If you really want to know what sort of reference Wal Mart is going to give you, have a friend pretend to be a manager for something and call them up.

    definitely never ever do that

    Question: what is bad about this?

    It's unethical?

    Well there is that.

    Practically speaking it's purposefully deceiving someone about a material fact which could influence their decision to enter into a business arrangement with you for your own benefit and to their detriment. (you get paid and they don't get a worker that has never been fired for gross misconduct, which could have been the deciding factor between you and another potential employee)

    That's called "fraud" and it's Bad. If it was found out, it would give your new employer cause to fire you (and they likely will, as they'll never believe your side of the story about what happened at WalMart after you pull a stunt like this), and even worse, it could give them an affirmative defense if they harm you in some way by violating labor or employment law and you want to get a remedy.

    And having a former employer say you were "terminated for fraudulent reporting on an employment application" is way fucking harder to explain than a former employer saying you were "terminated for gross misconduct," especially given the nature of this "misconduct."

    You may also be asking your friend to commit a criminal offense depending on where you are.

    Seriously. Don't Do This.

  • DeebaserDeebaser Lead Frog Rammer Fake Board GamerRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    GungHo wrote: »
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    If you really want to know what sort of reference Wal Mart is going to give you, have a friend pretend to be a manager for something and call them up.

    definitely never ever do that

    Question: what is bad about this?

    It's unethical?

    Well there is that.

    Practically speaking it's purposefully deceiving someone about a material fact which could influence their decision to enter into a business arrangement with you for your own benefit and to their detriment. (you get paid and they don't get a worker that has never been fired for gross misconduct, which could have been the deciding factor between you and another potential employee)

    That's called "fraud" and it's Bad. If it was found out, it would give your new employer cause to fire you (and they likely will, as they'll never believe your side of the story about what happened at WalMart after you pull a stunt like this), and even worse, it could give them an affirmative defense if they harm you in some way by violating labor or employment law and you want to get a remedy.

    And having a former employer say you were "terminated for fraudulent reporting on an employment application" is way fucking harder to explain than a former employer saying you were "terminated for gross misconduct," especially given the nature of this "misconduct."

    You may also be asking your friend to commit a criminal offense depending on where you are.

    Seriously. Don't Do This.

    I don't think he was suggesting that he should have a friend pretend to be an old manager. I think he was only suggesting that he should find out what his previous employer is saying to complete strangers behind his back.

    That isn't fraud and won't go on your permanent record.

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    Vanguard wrote: »
    ...poetry is actually the worst
  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks License Number 137596Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Deebaser wrote: »
    I don't think he was suggesting that he should have a friend pretend to be an old manager. I think he was only suggesting that he should find out what his previous employer is saying to complete strangers behind his back.

    That isn't fraud and won't go on your permanent record.

    Ding ding ding. Monroe kind of missed the point.

    SUP ISORN
    STEAM ME, BABY / PSN: ghjfghdfgcvb
  • Captain VashCaptain Vash Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    The scenario I'm envisioning is that post being fired from walmart, you call up walmart and say "Hey I'm Jim Bob from Jim Bob's tire depot and I've got an applicant here name of Timmy Smith, and he listed you as a reference?"

    and seeing what their response is.. that doesn't really sound like a real problem to me, is there something that I'm missin?

    twitterforweb.Stuckens.1,1,500,f4f4f4,0,c4c4c4,000000.png
  • bowenbowen Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    It's also perfectly legal to do.

  • PheezerPheezer Registered User, ClubPA
    edited August 2010
    I would almost go so far as to say that's a decent idea if you're legitimately concerned.

    I'd be shocked if walmart didn't have a global policy that required the person taking that call to confirm length of employment and nothing else, though.

    IT'S GOT ME REACHING IN MY POCKET IT'S GOT ME FORKING OVER CASH
    CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
  • DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited August 2010
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    GungHo wrote: »
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    If you really want to know what sort of reference Wal Mart is going to give you, have a friend pretend to be a manager for something and call them up.

    definitely never ever do that

    Question: what is bad about this?

    It's unethical?

    Well there is that.

    Practically speaking it's purposefully deceiving someone about a material fact which could influence their decision to enter into a business arrangement with you for your own benefit and to their detriment. (you get paid and they don't get a worker that has never been fired for gross misconduct, which could have been the deciding factor between you and another potential employee)

    That's called "fraud" and it's Bad. If it was found out, it would give your new employer cause to fire you (and they likely will, as they'll never believe your side of the story about what happened at WalMart after you pull a stunt like this), and even worse, it could give them an affirmative defense if they harm you in some way by violating labor or employment law and you want to get a remedy.

    And having a former employer say you were "terminated for fraudulent reporting on an employment application" is way fucking harder to explain than a former employer saying you were "terminated for gross misconduct," especially given the nature of this "misconduct."

    You may also be asking your friend to commit a criminal offense depending on where you are.

    Seriously. Don't Do This.

    It's pretty clear that you didn't read SmokeStack's post all that closely but just skimmed over it and assumed you knew what he was saying.

    belruelotterav-1.jpg
  • PheezerPheezer Registered User, ClubPA
    edited August 2010
    Druhim buddy, you got some points for that wings thread but you're dogpiling here and that's not some kind of erotic slang nor is it really necessary so let's all stop ragging on the slow kid. I'm sure if he's read any of the replies since then he knows he made a mistake.

    IT'S GOT ME REACHING IN MY POCKET IT'S GOT ME FORKING OVER CASH
    CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
  • GungHoGungHo Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Pheezer wrote: »
    I would almost go so far as to say that's a decent idea if you're legitimately concerned.
    I still think it's unethical to impersonate someone (even a made up someone) even if you're just trying to cover your friend's ass.

    Besides, if I ever learned anything from Seinfeld, it's that karma is a bitch. One day, you're going to bust your face running from the john with your pants around your ankles screaming, "Vandelay Industries!"
    Pheezer wrote: »
    I'd be shocked if walmart didn't have a global policy that required the person taking that call to confirm length of employment and nothing else, though.
    Most multinational corporations have that as their policy. Too many countries have too many different data privacy laws for you to do otherwise.

    Walmart may be a little more in-tune (given that they're a retailer) with local laws than some orgs, but I imagine that's more on the side of what they can pinch you on and the documentation required rather than what they say about people who have already been pinched.

    "Adios, mofo" -- TX Gov Rick Perry (R)
  • PheezerPheezer Registered User, ClubPA
    edited August 2010
    GungHo wrote: »
    Pheezer wrote: »
    I would almost go so far as to say that's a decent idea if you're legitimately concerned.
    I still think it's unethical to impersonate someone (even a made up someone) even if you're just trying to cover your friend's ass.

    Besides, if I ever learned anything from Seinfeld, it's that karma is a bitch. One day, you're going to bust your face running from the john with your pants around your ankles screaming, "Vandelay Industries!"

    Do you not get it?

    No one is pretending to be the manager at walmart.

    They're calling walmart to find out what kind of reference walmart will give.

    The only reason subterfuge is necessary is because he probably can't expect to get a straight answer by just calling up and asking directly what they'll say. To claim that this is a breach of ethics sets the bar for ethical behaviour somewhat unreasonably out of touch with reality. At some point you have to consider the actual consequences of an action as a mitigating or aggravating factor, and the complete and utter lack of even the possibility of negative consequences to any party here should probably play a role in whether or not this is an "okay" thing to do.

    If you're just posting to say "you shouldn't do that because lying is bad", well. I can't agree that you're actually providing reasonable advice.

    IT'S GOT ME REACHING IN MY POCKET IT'S GOT ME FORKING OVER CASH
    CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
  • beautyy89beautyy89 Registered User new member
    what if you were fired for going to work at walmart in california drunk? and it was labled gross misconduct...would you lie and say it was for somthing else??

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This discussion has been closed.