So, I just started playing this. Does it turn into absolute suck later? After finishing the prologue and a couple missions in Saudi Arabia, this is bringing back all my favorite memories of Deus Ex.
Sure, it's not perfect, but so far, I can't see any reason for the 63 (!) this game has on Metacritic. This game should easily fall into the high-70s, from what I've seen.
No, as long as you can manage the bosses it only gets better. After Saudi Arabia it actually gets way better.
(It's one of my favourite games of all time actually. Just because how much I love spy fiction^^)
So, I just started playing this. Does it turn into absolute suck later? After finishing the prologue and a couple missions in Saudi Arabia, this is bringing back all my favorite memories of Deus Ex.
Sure, it's not perfect, but so far, I can't see any reason for the 63 (!) this game has on Metacritic. This game should easily fall into the high-70s, from what I've seen.
It's less a statement of overall quality than it is the likelihood of you enjoying the game. You're either going to have gobs of fun building your own spy and finding new and exotic ways to mess with people, or you're going to lock in on the fact that you can't jump back across the gap you just jumped and you are now sticking to a cover surface that isn't there.
I found it extremely fun and I'm gearing up for another run myself, but it goes down a lot easier once you're prepared for stuff like checkpoint doors closing forever behind you; or, my personal favorite, the most interesting wall in the world.
HedgethornAssociate Professor of Historical Hobby HorsesIn the Lions' DenRegistered Userregular
edited October 2010
I knew there was some controversy about the low reviews, but I was wondering if I should be lowering my expectations. I'm excited to hear that it gets better from here on.
One question: I think I've heard that I should max out pistols as soon as I can in order to cheese the bosses -- is that right? Any other upgrade tips? I'm playing as a Field Operative, with a few points in Stealth, Pistols, and Toughness right now.
Spy (Stealth, Martial Arts, Pistol) is basically cheating. Assault Rifle is great for just straight killing, but the Pistol is your utility gun of choice.
Take one rank of Sabotage so you can use EMPs to crack locks quickly. As a corollary; buy and equip EMPs.
When you have the option to take a mook down non-lethally or kill him, don't kill him. You'll get several perks for this that make you tougher.
Take Stealth 5 (master awareness) even if you don't plan on sneaking. This lets you see where your enemies are looking at all times. Well worth 30 AP.
Technical Aptitude is worth putting points in for Brilliance. If you end up specializing in it you can basically chain invisibility your way through any level if you have Master Shadow Operative. It's like being the predator.
Incendiary Grenades rock.
I think that covers most of it.
Edit: Forgot one. Don't use tranqs for boss fights, and take off the silencer. I always carry a second pistol muzzle/barrel and save my steel jacketed rounds for boss fights.
Also: Sell everything you're not going to use. Top end gear is crazy expensive.
What Zed said. Stealth+Pistols+Anything basically makes you the Predator. The Rifle is another good multipurpose weapon, since subsonic rounds allow for silent kills at range. I've also been told the Clearinghouse only sells special ammo when you're low on what you have, and you'll usually find enough of the good stuff to use on occasion.
You can only carry a set amount of gear into the field, even if you have more in storage; ammo, grenades, etc.
The pistol reticule only closes when it's actually on top of a target. It's best used behind cover, and with some training you don't even need to poke your head out to line up a shot.
When you get to a new hub, hit up the conversation (meet with so-and-so) missions as soon as you can. Usually it opens up Clearinghouse contacts and gives you free XP, and you sometimes get discounts on intel for later missions.
Aside from recommending pistols for every character regardless of intention, I'd say stealth or martial arts (or, to a much lesser degree, toughness) is important to have some of solely because of one section.
Since you have most of those, you should be fine for pretty much the whole game so long as you keep on them.
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HedgethornAssociate Professor of Historical Hobby HorsesIn the Lions' DenRegistered Userregular
edited October 2010
Ok, I'm near the end of Moscow, and this game is fantastic. Yes, it's buggy. Yes, the enemy AI is awful, including having alerted enemies looking right past me as I line up my shots. Yes, the voice acting leaves a lot to be desired. And yes, sometimes the writing assumes you know something that you would have learned had you taken a different conversation path.
But despite all that, I just can't put this game down. The conversation / reputation system is just so well put together; I find myself reloading saves just to see how things would have gone had I picked different conversation options (I just played through the embassy mission twice with different handlers each time).
This is the most engrossed I've been in a game in years.
Ok, I'm near the end of Moscow, and this game is fantastic. Yes, it's buggy. Yes, the enemy AI is awful, including having alerted enemies looking right past me as I line up my shots. Yes, the voice acting leaves a lot to be desired. And yes, sometimes the writing assumes you know something that you would have learned had you taken a different conversation path.
But despite all that, I just can't put this game down. The conversation / reputation system is just so well put together; I find myself reloading saves just to see how things would have gone had I picked different conversation options (I just played through the embassy mission twice with different handlers each time).
This is the most engrossed I've been in a game in years.
What? That was one of the best parts of the game. oO
I think for all the times I've played it the only thing that really annoyed me was popping out of cover to chain shot and having evasion activate while I was lining up shots because it cancels your chain shot but treats it like you used it cooldown wise.
Hmmm . . . Target here has it on clearance for $25. Pick up the boxed copy now, or wait for a Steam sale around the holidays . . . Decisions, decisions . . .
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HedgethornAssociate Professor of Historical Hobby HorsesIn the Lions' DenRegistered Userregular
Ok, I'm near the end of Moscow, and this game is fantastic. Yes, it's buggy. Yes, the enemy AI is awful, including having alerted enemies looking right past me as I line up my shots. Yes, the voice acting leaves a lot to be desired. And yes, sometimes the writing assumes you know something that you would have learned had you taken a different conversation path.
But despite all that, I just can't put this game down. The conversation / reputation system is just so well put together; I find myself reloading saves just to see how things would have gone had I picked different conversation options (I just played through the embassy mission twice with different handlers each time).
This is the most engrossed I've been in a game in years.
What? That was one of the best parts of the game. oO
Anyway, glad you like it^^
Alright, I should qualify that. The voice acting on all the NPCs? Good to great. The voice acting on Thorton? Ugh. Every line, no matter the conversation stance, is spoken at a near montone. If I were being generous, I would say that the VA was trying to be subtle and missed.
Alright, I should qualify that. The voice acting on all the NPCs? Good to great. The voice acting on Thorton? Ugh. Every line, no matter the conversation stance, is spoken at a near montone. If I were being generous, I would say that the VA was trying to be subtle and missed.
Personally I thought the exact opposite on Thorton. But I see where you coming from. That was discussed before.
Alright, I should qualify that. The voice acting on all the NPCs? Good to great. The voice acting on Thorton? Ugh. Every line, no matter the conversation stance, is spoken at a near montone. If I were being generous, I would say that the VA was trying to be subtle and missed.
Personally I thought the exact opposite on Thorton. But I see where you coming from. That was discussed before.
Yeah I thought Thorton's VA was brilliant. I mean if it's a choice between him and Shepard, no competition, Thorton' VA sounds so much better.
Ok, I'm near the end of Moscow, and this game is fantastic. Yes, it's buggy. Yes, the enemy AI is awful, including having alerted enemies looking right past me as I line up my shots. Yes, the voice acting leaves a lot to be desired. And yes, sometimes the writing assumes you know something that you would have learned had you taken a different conversation path.
But despite all that, I just can't put this game down. The conversation / reputation system is just so well put together; I find myself reloading saves just to see how things would have gone had I picked different conversation options (I just played through the embassy mission twice with different handlers each time).
This is the most engrossed I've been in a game in years.
What? That was one of the best parts of the game. oO
Anyway, glad you like it^^
Alright, I should qualify that. The voice acting on all the NPCs? Good to great. The voice acting on Thorton? Ugh. Every line, no matter the conversation stance, is spoken at a near montone. If I were being generous, I would say that the VA was trying to be subtle and missed.
Yeah, this is a necessary evil when you can choose your character's dialogue. Otherwise you can pick an aggressive option and have Thorton screaming at the top of his lungs, then pick a professional option and have him immediately sound cold and detached, meaning it's way too easy to make him sound like he's just plain bipolar.
In retrospect, I think my only complaint is with the "no wrong answers" concept presented by Avalone. That's not really true; there are just two "right answers" now, maxing out your faction in a positive or negative direction.
It would be interesting for a game to have each option generate a minor effect, rather than only rewarding extremes.
It does. Apart from Reputation how you choose answers affects several things. And that at multiple times. Probably the biggest example of this is at the end when you have the choice to upload the data or phone parker. What you choose there has big influence.
Min/Maxing relationships has a part too but thats only a part.
Not to mention nearly always you get vastly different answers.
In retrospect, I think my only complaint is with the "no wrong answers" concept presented by Avalone. That's not really true; there are just two "right answers" now, maxing out your faction in a positive or negative direction.
It does. Apart from Reputation...
Let me stop you right there, because that's the majority reason behind most of the conversations.
If you're trying to max Reputation, and you pick a bad response, that's absolutely a "wrong answer." I'm saying it'd be nice if there actually weren't "wrong answers."
With the same answer anything would be a "wrong" answer if you perceive it so. There is no wrong answer in regards to releationship means wherever you stand in a relationship is valid. What do you want to do with your conversation partner is valid. Sure if you want to have the best Releationship with a charachter its clear that when you piss him off it was "your" wrong answer. But that has only influence if you perceive it so.
Hell, releationships would still work the same way even if we don't know the number.
Alright, I should qualify that. The voice acting on all the NPCs? Good to great. The voice acting on Thorton? Ugh. Every line, no matter the conversation stance, is spoken at a near montone. If I were being generous, I would say that the VA was trying to be subtle and missed.
Personally I thought the exact opposite on Thorton. But I see where you coming from. That was discussed before.
Yeah I thought Thorton's VA was brilliant. I mean if it's a choice between him and Shepard, no competition, Thorton' VA sounds so much better.
I thought Thorton's VA was really good too. Can't really compare him to Shep's though because it would just be unfair to put anyone up against Jeniffer Hale and I've never played a male shep. It just wouldn't be right to do that.
So I'm debating buying this game again for my PS3. How's it compare to the PC version? Why would I want to give SEGA my money for their terrible business practices?
That's No Time For Love and Never Trust a Sociopath.
Now I just need Judge, Jury and Executioner (which has eluded me through three runs designed to pick it up) and No Compromise, No Mercy (which I'm surprised I don't have by now).
I think JJE is glitched for me, though. It almost has to be at this point.
This is the one I used - see what you think. Best of luck!
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Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
edited October 2010
Man, it really sucks that the game makes it near impossible to kill Marburg
Every fuckin' time I talk to him it's all "+3 reputation" and "+1 reputation" just for being competent
I don't want rep with that fuck, I want him dead, I want his family dead, I want his house burned to the ground and I wanna go there at night and piss on his ashes
Yeah, you've got to rack up a bodycount in Rome if you want him to hate you.
The first game I wound up accidentally talking him out of a fight because I was stealthing and tranqing my way through the hub, and playing professional spy guy.
Ah, apparently there's another way I can kill Marburg
I just need more intel on Parker, for some reason
Hope I can still get that, if I can't this game officially still sucks
The way I found just involves being supremely chummy with Madison, and then deploying the resultant information at the right point. Don't think I ever got much intel on Parker.
It results in its own special scene in the endgame, and is worth going for for this alone.
To kill Marburg you also have to have played the game as a snarky guy. Apparently it's not only your rep with him that factors into you being able to gun him down properly.
To kill Marburg you also have to have played the game as a snarky guy. Apparently it's not only your rep with him that factors into you being able to gun him down properly.
Oh no, it's not just that
Apparently, to kill Marburg, you have to have
1) chosen the suave dialogue a bunch of times before you even meet him
2) gotten a low rep with him, by chumming up with SIE or shooting up Rome before you met
3) gotten at least two pieces of intel on him (but don't tell him what you know about him or else that gives you plus rep)
4) chosen the suave dialogue stance three times during your confrontation with him
Also it helps if you go to save Madison and not the people at the museum (which I still don't know why anyone would make that choice)
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds.2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
edited October 2010
Fuckin' a, I think I'm basically fucked for not buying Madison's intel from the Clearinghouse and not asking Mina to look into Parker
Don't suppose anyone knows some value in an .ini somewhere that I can edit to make my rep with Marburg lower? Because I don't even give a fuck at this point
Can you "turn" him though? I got supremely high reputation with him, and
subsequent to my endgame capture and discussion with Leland, I briefly got the opportunity to talk with him and convince him that his future didn't lie with Halbech. I never got a chance to see how that played out, since I
told Parker about what Marburg had tried to do to Madison, and was forced to kill him.
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Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
edited October 2010
I already committed to trying to make him hate me, but since I didn't go shooting up Rome like an asshole, I got like +5 rep with him so now he's at like 0 rep and I'm fucked all around
Posts
No, as long as you can manage the bosses it only gets better. After Saudi Arabia it actually gets way better.
(It's one of my favourite games of all time actually. Just because how much I love spy fiction^^)
It's less a statement of overall quality than it is the likelihood of you enjoying the game. You're either going to have gobs of fun building your own spy and finding new and exotic ways to mess with people, or you're going to lock in on the fact that you can't jump back across the gap you just jumped and you are now sticking to a cover surface that isn't there.
I found it extremely fun and I'm gearing up for another run myself, but it goes down a lot easier once you're prepared for stuff like checkpoint doors closing forever behind you; or, my personal favorite, the most interesting wall in the world.
Now playing: Teardown and Baldur's Gate 3 (co-op)
Sunday Spotlight: Horror Tales: The Wine
One question: I think I've heard that I should max out pistols as soon as I can in order to cheese the bosses -- is that right? Any other upgrade tips? I'm playing as a Field Operative, with a few points in Stealth, Pistols, and Toughness right now.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
You can only carry a set amount of gear into the field, even if you have more in storage; ammo, grenades, etc.
The pistol reticule only closes when it's actually on top of a target. It's best used behind cover, and with some training you don't even need to poke your head out to line up a shot.
When you get to a new hub, hit up the conversation (meet with so-and-so) missions as soon as you can. Usually it opens up Clearinghouse contacts and gives you free XP, and you sometimes get discounts on intel for later missions.
Now playing: Teardown and Baldur's Gate 3 (co-op)
Sunday Spotlight: Horror Tales: The Wine
Since you have most of those, you should be fine for pretty much the whole game so long as you keep on them.
But despite all that, I just can't put this game down. The conversation / reputation system is just so well put together; I find myself reloading saves just to see how things would have gone had I picked different conversation options (I just played through the embassy mission twice with different handlers each time).
This is the most engrossed I've been in a game in years.
What? That was one of the best parts of the game. oO
Anyway, glad you like it^^
You either get it or you don't.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Glad to see more people liking the game though
Alright, I should qualify that. The voice acting on all the NPCs? Good to great. The voice acting on Thorton? Ugh. Every line, no matter the conversation stance, is spoken at a near montone. If I were being generous, I would say that the VA was trying to be subtle and missed.
Personally I thought the exact opposite on Thorton. But I see where you coming from. That was discussed before.
Yeah I thought Thorton's VA was brilliant. I mean if it's a choice between him and Shepard, no competition, Thorton' VA sounds so much better.
Yeah, this is a necessary evil when you can choose your character's dialogue. Otherwise you can pick an aggressive option and have Thorton screaming at the top of his lungs, then pick a professional option and have him immediately sound cold and detached, meaning it's way too easy to make him sound like he's just plain bipolar.
I have yet to encounter a line, though, that just doesn't feel right for a given playthrough.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Unfortunately that means I can't get Judge, Jury and Executioner this run. So I guess it's once more into the breach.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
It does. Apart from Reputation how you choose answers affects several things. And that at multiple times. Probably the biggest example of this is at the end when you have the choice to upload the data or phone parker. What you choose there has big influence.
Min/Maxing relationships has a part too but thats only a part.
Not to mention nearly always you get vastly different answers.
With the same answer anything would be a "wrong" answer if you perceive it so. There is no wrong answer in regards to releationship means wherever you stand in a relationship is valid. What do you want to do with your conversation partner is valid. Sure if you want to have the best Releationship with a charachter its clear that when you piss him off it was "your" wrong answer. But that has only influence if you perceive it so.
Hell, releationships would still work the same way even if we don't know the number.
I bolded what is wrong with your reasoning.
I thought Thorton's VA was really good too. Can't really compare him to Shep's though because it would just be unfair to put anyone up against Jeniffer Hale and I've never played a male shep. It just wouldn't be right to do that.
So I'm debating buying this game again for my PS3. How's it compare to the PC version? Why would I want to give SEGA my money for their terrible business practices?
There's not really any compelling reason for everything.
That's No Time For Love and Never Trust a Sociopath.
Now I just need Judge, Jury and Executioner (which has eluded me through three runs designed to pick it up) and No Compromise, No Mercy (which I'm surprised I don't have by now).
I think JJE is glitched for me, though. It almost has to be at this point.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
3DS Friend Code: 2165-6448-8348 www.Twitch.TV/cooljammer00
Battle.Net: JohnDarc#1203 Origin/UPlay: CoolJammer00
Killed everyone who was supposed to die to get me the achievement. Didn't get it.
I honestly wouldn't even be trying if I wasn't going to be playing AP anyway.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
I followed a trophy guide to get JJ&E and it worked absolutely fine. Got my plat a while back - not sure what you've done wrong here. Leave mina?
I'm working from a new one this time. It seems identical, but we'll see.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
This is the one I used - see what you think. Best of luck!
Every fuckin' time I talk to him it's all "+3 reputation" and "+1 reputation" just for being competent
I don't want rep with that fuck, I want him dead, I want his family dead, I want his house burned to the ground and I wanna go there at night and piss on his ashes
Stupid game
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
The first game I wound up accidentally talking him out of a fight because I was stealthing and tranqing my way through the hub, and playing professional spy guy.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
I just need more intel on Parker, for some reason
Hope I can still get that, if I can't this game officially still sucks
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
If it makes you feel any better, I'm going to be killing the bastard this playthrough.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
The way I found just involves being supremely chummy with Madison, and then deploying the resultant information at the right point. Don't think I ever got much intel on Parker.
3DS Friend Code: 2165-6448-8348 www.Twitch.TV/cooljammer00
Battle.Net: JohnDarc#1203 Origin/UPlay: CoolJammer00
Oh no, it's not just that
Apparently, to kill Marburg, you have to have
1) chosen the suave dialogue a bunch of times before you even meet him
2) gotten a low rep with him, by chumming up with SIE or shooting up Rome before you met
3) gotten at least two pieces of intel on him (but don't tell him what you know about him or else that gives you plus rep)
4) chosen the suave dialogue stance three times during your confrontation with him
Also it helps if you go to save Madison and not the people at the museum (which I still don't know why anyone would make that choice)
It's pretty fuckin' bogus, all things considered
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
Neither is terribly easy, though.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Don't suppose anyone knows some value in an .ini somewhere that I can edit to make my rep with Marburg lower? Because I don't even give a fuck at this point
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
Man, this game
Even when I like it I hate it
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET