I'm just throwing this out there but do any of you think a Mass Effect style RPG would work better as a first-person game? And I mean everything, including the dialog scenes.
I also want some more Machine Guns in ME3, so that my squaddies can lay down some better covering/suppressive fire (which should also be a command that you can give to your squadmates).
Nah, Mass effect is set up to be like your playing through a movie, FPP would change the story telling of the game.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited August 2010
Honestly don't see why one would want it to be first person anyway. Not to mention my Shepard is dead sexy and I want to have my eyes on him at all times.
Honestly don't see why one would want it to be first person anyway. Not to mention my Shepard is dead sexy and I want to have my eyes on him at all times.
I'm just throwing this out there but do any of you think a Mass Effect style RPG would work better as a first-person game? And I mean everything, including the dialog scenes.
I also want some more Machine Guns in ME3, so that my squaddies can lay down some better covering/suppressive fire (which should also be a command that you can give to your squadmates).
First person would blow chunks with a cover-based shooter. Be more realistic, and also more vomit-inducing. And with the dialog scenes it just doesn't work as well. See also: Morrowind. By making it third person they can do much more interesting tricks with the camera to express emotion, intensity, etc., especially for dialog and cutscenes.
Suppressing fire only works if the enemy cares about being hit. I don't see that being helpful without a pretty drastic revamp of both the mechanics and the AI.
In all, I'd say they've got a pretty winning combination right now; any changes I'd expect to be iterative rather than innovative.
Is Morrowind or Oblivion a good example to compare to when talking about first-person dialog scenes, or dialog at all? I never finished Morrowind (a crime, I know), but finished Oblivion and from what I remember the game paused everything else when you went into dialog, keeping the player staring at the other person's face. I'm talking about dialog where the other person(s) have free movement and the game is still moving outside of the dialog. Something more like Half-Life 2 while keeping you in a fixed position maybe.
In terms of the combat, I just find it too simple. Even with my Adept I just setup behind covers, place my squadmates behind some decent cover and fire as many Singularities and Warps as it takes to take out the enemy. I'll only die if decide to poke out my head at some inopportune time. This is on Insanity of course. I don't think suppressive/covering fire is going to fix that, but it would certainly help in places like Garrus' recruitment mission (i.e. the garage and the hall) where moving from cover to cover was difficult.
And I wish more games would combine control schemes. EndWar already showed that you could combine voice communication and and conventional controllers, so why don't they implement this keyword tech in more games? I would guess its a localization and accessibility issue though, but still, it's invaluable in a squad-based game where bringing up the power wheel or pressing the shift key is just a unwelcome break in the action.
I'm just throwing this out there but do any of you think a Mass Effect style RPG would work better as a first-person game? And I mean everything, including the dialog scenes.
I also want some more Machine Guns in ME3, so that my squaddies can lay down some better covering/suppressive fire (which should also be a command that you can give to your squadmates).
First person would blow chunks with a cover-based shooter. Be more realistic, and also more vomit-inducing. And with the dialog scenes it just doesn't work as well. See also: Morrowind. By making it third person they can do much more interesting tricks with the camera to express emotion, intensity, etc., especially for dialog and cutscenes.
Suppressing fire only works if the enemy cares about being hit. I don't see that being helpful without a pretty drastic revamp of both the mechanics and the AI.
In all, I'd say they've got a pretty winning combination right now; any changes I'd expect to be iterative rather than innovative.
Is Morrowind or Oblivion a good example to compare to when talking about first-person dialog scenes, or dialog at all? I never finished Morrowind (a crime, I know), but finished Oblivion and from what I remember the game paused everything else when you went into dialog, keeping the player staring at the other person's face. I'm talking about dialog where the other person(s) have free movement and the game is still moving outside of the dialog. Something more like Half-Life 2 while keeping you in a fixed position maybe.
In terms of the combat, I just find it too simple. Even with my Adept I just setup behind covers, place my squadmates behind some decent cover and fire as many Singularities and Warps as it takes to take out the enemy. I'll only die if decide to poke out my head at some inopportune time. This is on Insanity of course. I don't think suppressive/covering fire is going to fix that, but it would certainly help in places like Garrus' recruitment mission (i.e. the garage and the hall) where moving from cover to cover was difficult.
And I wish more games would combine control schemes. EndWar already showed that you could combine voice communication and and conventional controllers, so why don't they implement this keyword tech in more games? I would guess its a localization and accessibility issue though, but still, it's invaluable in a squad-based game where bringing up the power wheel or pressing the shift key is just a unwelcome break in the action.
The Rainbow Six 3 port on the Xbox let you use voice commands to tell your squad what to do, but it has a lot of trouble with anyone who doesn't have a perfect lack of accent or tone.
Also: Killzone 2 did the first person cover thing, and I think a lot of people didn't like it because of motion sick and stuff.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited August 2010
Not to mention that has more to do with AI in gaming generally sucking rather than anything based on perspective.
Is Morrowind or Oblivion a good example to compare to when talking about first-person dialog scenes, or dialog at all? I never finished Morrowind (a crime, I know), but finished Oblivion and from what I remember the game paused everything else when you went into dialog, keeping the player staring at the other person's face. I'm talking about dialog where the other person(s) have free movement and the game is still moving outside of the dialog. Something more like Half-Life 2 while keeping you in a fixed position maybe.
Morrowind is my benchmark, in part because it showed how much suck the first person perspective is when trying to have a cinematic experience, which is what Mass Effect is all about. You don't like that? How about Fallout 3? Same problem. Half Life 2 works for a mute protagonist that never makes any choices, but it still feels silly as all getout and emphatically is not a cinematic experience.
In terms of the combat, I just find it too simple. Even with my Adept I just setup behind covers, place my squadmates behind some decent cover and fire as many Singularities and Warps as it takes to take out the enemy. I'll only die if decide to poke out my head at some inopportune time. This is on Insanity of course. I don't think suppressive/covering fire is going to fix that, but it would certainly help in places like Garrus' recruitment mission (i.e. the garage and the hall) where moving from cover to cover was difficult.
Are you sure that isn't just overplaying? At this point with most classes I find it fairly easy even on Insanity, but that's because I've sunk far too many hours into it. The first and second time around it was a challenge. AI is still a challenge to do properly. Things have come a long way from Wolfenstein 3D, but there's much further to go before we have adaptive human-like AI out there, and that's what keeps multiplayer games going.
With the new weapons, I found myself using every single weapon class regularly as a Soldier, which is in stark contrast to my earlier run of nothing but Revananting it up as soon as I had it in hand. I enjoyed my Insanity Adept run, which was mostly about stripping the defenses off, firing a singularity, and then detonating it with a warp. So I dunno.
And I wish more games would combine control schemes. EndWar already showed that you could combine voice communication and and conventional controllers, so why don't they implement this keyword tech in more games? I would guess its a localization and accessibility issue though, but still, it's invaluable in a squad-based game where bringing up the power wheel or pressing the shift key is just a unwelcome break in the action.
You can order your troops to attack a target, move to target, and use a specific power without ever bringing up the shift menu, so if you don't like to break up the action, don't use it. I suck at shooters, so I abuse the crap out of it to place a precisely timed overload on top of that explosive canister. And that's what it's there for, I'd think--to make the game more accessible.
Voice comms is nice, but definitely runs into localization and accent issues. I wouldn't want to be the one to try to implement that.
Is Morrowind or Oblivion a good example to compare to when talking about first-person dialog scenes, or dialog at all?
One thing that always weirded me out about that was I'd be idling along, perhaps on my horse, and then someone would catch up to me or start a conversation as I went by, and my head would slowly, inexorably turn to face them, unable to resist their will, until I was staring into their hideous visage.
What I'm saying is everyone in that world is a master vampire.
Is Morrowind or Oblivion a good example to compare to when talking about first-person dialog scenes, or dialog at all?
One thing that always weirded me out about that was I'd be idling along, perhaps on my horse, and then someone would catch up to me or start a conversation as I went by, and my head would slowly, inexorably turn to face them, unable to resist their will, until I was staring into their hideous visage.
What I'm saying is everyone in that world is a master vampire.
It's even creepier when you are idling in a tunnel or something, and not really focusing in the game and then suddenly OHMYGODADISGUSTINGFACEOUTOFNOWHEREAAARRGHHITSSPEAKINGTOME
Is Morrowind or Oblivion a good example to compare to when talking about first-person dialog scenes, or dialog at all?
One thing that always weirded me out about that was I'd be idling along, perhaps on my horse, and then someone would catch up to me or start a conversation as I went by, and my head would slowly, inexorably turn to face them, unable to resist their will, until I was staring into their hideous visage.
What I'm saying is everyone in that world is a master vampire.
It's even creepier when you are idling in a tunnel or something, and not really focusing in the game and then suddenly OHMYGODADISGUSTINGFACEOUTOFNOWHEREAAARRGHHITSSPEAKINGTOME
The Elder Scrolls are just a consistently horrific looking set of games when it comes down to character models
Is Morrowind or Oblivion a good example to compare to when talking about first-person dialog scenes, or dialog at all?
One thing that always weirded me out about that was I'd be idling along, perhaps on my horse, and then someone would catch up to me or start a conversation as I went by, and my head would slowly, inexorably turn to face them, unable to resist their will, until I was staring into their hideous visage.
What I'm saying is everyone in that world is a master vampire.
It's even creepier when you are idling in a tunnel or something, and not really focusing in the game and then suddenly OHMYGODADISGUSTINGFACEOUTOFNOWHEREAAARRGHHITSSPEAKINGTOME
The Elder Scrolls are just a consistently horrific looking set of games when it comes down to character models
Bethseda can't model/animate/hire good voice actors.
Is Morrowind or Oblivion a good example to compare to when talking about first-person dialog scenes, or dialog at all?
One thing that always weirded me out about that was I'd be idling along, perhaps on my horse, and then someone would catch up to me or start a conversation as I went by, and my head would slowly, inexorably turn to face them, unable to resist their will, until I was staring into their hideous visage.
What I'm saying is everyone in that world is a master vampire.
It's even creepier when you are idling in a tunnel or something, and not really focusing in the game and then suddenly OHMYGODADISGUSTINGFACEOUTOFNOWHEREAAARRGHHITSSPEAKINGTOME
The Elder Scrolls are just a consistently horrific looking set of games when it comes down to character models
Bethseda can't model/animate/hire good voice actors.
its really disturbing that the mod community can use the character creation tools in the damn games and create people that look somewhat human.
Is Morrowind or Oblivion a good example to compare to when talking about first-person dialog scenes, or dialog at all?
One thing that always weirded me out about that was I'd be idling along, perhaps on my horse, and then someone would catch up to me or start a conversation as I went by, and my head would slowly, inexorably turn to face them, unable to resist their will, until I was staring into their hideous visage.
What I'm saying is everyone in that world is a master vampire.
It's even creepier when you are idling in a tunnel or something, and not really focusing in the game and then suddenly OHMYGODADISGUSTINGFACEOUTOFNOWHEREAAARRGHHITSSPEAKINGTOME
The Elder Scrolls are just a consistently horrific looking set of games when it comes down to character models
Bethseda can't model/animate/hire good voice actors.
its really disturbing that the mod community can use the character creation tools in the damn games and create people that look somewhat human.
its like bethesda just cant be bothered.
If by somewhat human, you mean flat textured japanese blow up dolls.
Is Morrowind or Oblivion a good example to compare to when talking about first-person dialog scenes, or dialog at all?
One thing that always weirded me out about that was I'd be idling along, perhaps on my horse, and then someone would catch up to me or start a conversation as I went by, and my head would slowly, inexorably turn to face them, unable to resist their will, until I was staring into their hideous visage.
What I'm saying is everyone in that world is a master vampire.
It's even creepier when you are idling in a tunnel or something, and not really focusing in the game and then suddenly OHMYGODADISGUSTINGFACEOUTOFNOWHEREAAARRGHHITSSPEAKINGTOME
The Elder Scrolls are just a consistently horrific looking set of games when it comes down to character models
Bethseda can't model/animate/hire good voice actors.
its really disturbing that the mod community can use the character creation tools in the damn games and create people that look somewhat human.
its like bethesda just cant be bothered.
If by somewhat human, you mean flat textured japanese blow up dolls.
what the hell mods have you been downloading?
nevermind i dont want to know
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
Is Morrowind or Oblivion a good example to compare to when talking about first-person dialog scenes, or dialog at all?
One thing that always weirded me out about that was I'd be idling along, perhaps on my horse, and then someone would catch up to me or start a conversation as I went by, and my head would slowly, inexorably turn to face them, unable to resist their will, until I was staring into their hideous visage.
What I'm saying is everyone in that world is a master vampire.
It's even creepier when you are idling in a tunnel or something, and not really focusing in the game and then suddenly OHMYGODADISGUSTINGFACEOUTOFNOWHEREAAARRGHHITSSPEAKINGTOME
The Elder Scrolls are just a consistently horrific looking set of games when it comes down to character models
Bethseda can't model/animate/hire good voice actors.
its really disturbing that the mod community can use the character creation tools in the damn games and create people that look somewhat human.
its like bethesda just cant be bothered.
If by somewhat human, you mean flat textured japanese blow up dolls.
what the hell mods have you been downloading?
nevermind i dont want to know
Well I do.
What? Don't judge me.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited August 2010
Let's just say that when you give internet people the ability to mess around with female body models(both young and old...and very young in some cases), they tend to go a bit wild with it.
Let's just say that when you give internet people the ability to mess around with female body models(both young and old...and very young in some cases), they tend to go a bit wild with it.
You know, it's probably a good thing that there are no advanced mod tools for ME2, because you know it could only result in naked Tali and Garrus models as far as the eye can see.
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joshgotroDeviled EggThe Land of REAL CHILIRegistered Userregular
You know, it's probably a good thing that there are no advanced mod tools for ME2, because you know it could only result in naked Tali and Garrus models as far as the eye can see.
You know, it's probably a good thing that there are no advanced mod tools for ME2, because you know it could only result in naked Tali and Garrus models as far as the eye can see.
Naked EDI models.
Unf.
Isn't EDI already naked?
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
You know, it's probably a good thing that there are no advanced mod tools for ME2, because you know it could only result in naked Tali and Garrus models as far as the eye can see.
OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
edited August 2010
That's right, take off that heatsink. Take it all off. Oh yeah. You're a dirty little AI aren't you. You like that thermal grease? You're getting me hot.
That's right, take off that heatsink. Take it all off. Oh yeah. You're a dirty little AI aren't you. You like that thermal grease? You're getting me hot.
Oh yeah baby, show me what an unshackled AI can really do.
Posts
Nah, Mass effect is set up to be like your playing through a movie, FPP would change the story telling of the game.
I based my Shepard on Michael Cera also
Is Morrowind or Oblivion a good example to compare to when talking about first-person dialog scenes, or dialog at all? I never finished Morrowind (a crime, I know), but finished Oblivion and from what I remember the game paused everything else when you went into dialog, keeping the player staring at the other person's face. I'm talking about dialog where the other person(s) have free movement and the game is still moving outside of the dialog. Something more like Half-Life 2 while keeping you in a fixed position maybe.
In terms of the combat, I just find it too simple. Even with my Adept I just setup behind covers, place my squadmates behind some decent cover and fire as many Singularities and Warps as it takes to take out the enemy. I'll only die if decide to poke out my head at some inopportune time. This is on Insanity of course. I don't think suppressive/covering fire is going to fix that, but it would certainly help in places like Garrus' recruitment mission (i.e. the garage and the hall) where moving from cover to cover was difficult.
And I wish more games would combine control schemes. EndWar already showed that you could combine voice communication and and conventional controllers, so why don't they implement this keyword tech in more games? I would guess its a localization and accessibility issue though, but still, it's invaluable in a squad-based game where bringing up the power wheel or pressing the shift key is just a unwelcome break in the action.
Steam: CavilatRest
The Rainbow Six 3 port on the Xbox let you use voice commands to tell your squad what to do, but it has a lot of trouble with anyone who doesn't have a perfect lack of accent or tone.
Also: Killzone 2 did the first person cover thing, and I think a lot of people didn't like it because of motion sick and stuff.
that's the high and low of it
Fallout 3?
Well, both Mass Effects were quality games, so yes, a game made by Bethesda would differ from that quite a bit.
Morrowind is my benchmark, in part because it showed how much suck the first person perspective is when trying to have a cinematic experience, which is what Mass Effect is all about. You don't like that? How about Fallout 3? Same problem. Half Life 2 works for a mute protagonist that never makes any choices, but it still feels silly as all getout and emphatically is not a cinematic experience.
Are you sure that isn't just overplaying? At this point with most classes I find it fairly easy even on Insanity, but that's because I've sunk far too many hours into it. The first and second time around it was a challenge. AI is still a challenge to do properly. Things have come a long way from Wolfenstein 3D, but there's much further to go before we have adaptive human-like AI out there, and that's what keeps multiplayer games going.
With the new weapons, I found myself using every single weapon class regularly as a Soldier, which is in stark contrast to my earlier run of nothing but Revananting it up as soon as I had it in hand. I enjoyed my Insanity Adept run, which was mostly about stripping the defenses off, firing a singularity, and then detonating it with a warp. So I dunno.
You can order your troops to attack a target, move to target, and use a specific power without ever bringing up the shift menu, so if you don't like to break up the action, don't use it. I suck at shooters, so I abuse the crap out of it to place a precisely timed overload on top of that explosive canister. And that's what it's there for, I'd think--to make the game more accessible.
Voice comms is nice, but definitely runs into localization and accent issues. I wouldn't want to be the one to try to implement that.
One thing that always weirded me out about that was I'd be idling along, perhaps on my horse, and then someone would catch up to me or start a conversation as I went by, and my head would slowly, inexorably turn to face them, unable to resist their will, until I was staring into their hideous visage.
What I'm saying is everyone in that world is a master vampire.
It's even creepier when you are idling in a tunnel or something, and not really focusing in the game and then suddenly OHMYGODADISGUSTINGFACEOUTOFNOWHEREAAARRGHHITSSPEAKINGTOME
if ME is first person how am i supposed to stare at shepards ass as he decimates things.
her.
her ass i mean
I meant her ass.
Bethseda can't model/animate/hire good voice actors.
its really disturbing that the mod community can use the character creation tools in the damn games and create people that look somewhat human.
its like bethesda just cant be bothered.
Then it was sunny outside, so I went into the garden to do some weeding.
All I could think as I bent over those damn horsetails was "I wish I had a weed IFF"
If by somewhat human, you mean flat textured japanese blow up dolls.
what the hell mods have you been downloading?
nevermind i dont want to know
Well I do.
What? Don't judge me.
Implications Unpleasent
Oh, internet.
Have you been to the model section of Falloutnexus?
Working on a sexy clothes mod for Mordin now.
IF THAT WAS ALL HE HAD ON.
AMIRITE?
Naked EDI models.
Unf.
Isn't EDI already naked?
But now you can see all her hot, hot circuits.
Cerberus logo is a vagina
vaginas everywhere
Oh yeah baby, show me what an unshackled AI can really do.
never lose your class