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Any teachers out there?
jhunter46
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Just finished my second week of student teaching, 10th grade World History. Took over on Monday and spent a day on Ancient Greece and three days on Ancient Rome. Rewrote last years test for the first unit making sure it was valid...and my kids in general bombed it.
Traded a couple of texts with my cooperative teacher and he assured me he thought I was doing a pretty good job. I'm working on my lessons for next week and I'm already making some adjustments but looking at these results is pretty gut wrenching.
Have you guys ever had a situation where you have to wonder if it is your effectiveness or their work ethic?
Traded a couple of texts with my cooperative teacher and he assured me he thought I was doing a pretty good job. I'm working on my lessons for next week and I'm already making some adjustments but looking at these results is pretty gut wrenching.
Have you guys ever had a situation where you have to wonder if it is your effectiveness or their work ethic?
jhunter46 on
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Yeah, it's on them then.
I mean, you can vary up your teaching methods to try and interest them more, but it's high school kids. The chance of you pulling some Dead Poet's Society level of inspiration on them is pretty low.
If you let them know what was going to be on the test and they could have a card of notes, there's no reason they should have bombed it. Though maybe less games and more "Here's a list of terms/subjects/people that will be covered specifically."
My second hour breaks down to something like:
A - 1
B - 8
C - 10
D - 2
F - 11
For my next unit I'm going to provide them with a list of key concepts to fill out during lectures and activities, hopefully that'll help a little.
And honestly, I'm not expecting anything similar to DPS but Christ, 40% of my class failed.
I'm not saying that you should turn your class into a joke, but at this stage it can't hurt to try to mix things up, both on the teaching and evaluating end.
Also, if the distribution of grades is better on last year's test, then perhaps that indicates some sort of design issue with the update to this year's test
Those don't look that terrible to me. The kids who got F's, what's your take on them? How have they done on other assignments?
Also, out of curiosity, what format was the test?
The test was 20 Multiple Choice, 5 Matching, 5 T/F and one short answer with three possible prompts.
B? The average grade in a class of 15-16 year olds?
I thought C was the average you shoot for
That was my experience, which the Washington Post* seems to agree with though they don't list a source. The days of a C being the average grade are long gone and grades continually inflate over time since it's such a key factor into entrance to college.
*Average GPA in 2005 was 2.98 and even in 1990 the average was 2.68 which is still significantly higher than a C
Maybe you've come up with a great one, I dunno. But every review game I experienced has been pointless. Give me the paper listing all the stuff I need to know for the test and let me focus on what I don't know.
I can has cheezburger, yes?
What were the grades for the B's? Were they all over the B range, all really low, or mostly high? If they were mostly low, that's probably a good clue you need to ease up. It's not the kids who could always potentially get an F that concerns me, it's whether the 4 or 5 smart kids in the class had a chance, or if there was only the 1 really smart person who got that A, with everyone else like 20 points below them.
Also: If this is the first test, wait until the second test to start finding a trend for test results; I know that I've been caught off my guard the very first test with a teacher no one knew.
P.S.- What's the timing like for this test? I know some of my teachers have used a rule where they try to get the test done in half or 1/3 the time, and if they can't, it's too long, generally.
Your typical high school student still believes the old five minute rule (if the teacher's not there 5 minutes after the bell students are allowed to leave. No matter how many kids got suspended trying, that one was never quite quieted at my high school, they're still probably suspending somebody every time that 85 year old English teacher who refuses to retire has to go pee). Few of my classmates took student teachers any more seriously than substitutes because "they can't really do anything to you anyway."
Part of your learning process is reading the class - see who's not paying attention even if they're not being disruptive, and try to match them to their work or test scores.
Having a teacher look over the test might be a good idea, too. Like somebody said, ambiguous wording will really trip kids up. You probably think nothing of it because college you probably ran into one of those sadistic professors who love to beat you on the head multiple choice questions with four valid answers but one slightly more valid than the rest, and your just better at resolving ambiguous wording.
1. These two cereal grasses originated in the Fertile Crescent.
Corn and Sorghum B. Maize and Barley C. Wheat and Barley D. Wheat and Sorghum
2. People have the direct power to vote on laws in this type of government.
Democracy B. Oligarchy C. Monarchy D. Republic
3. This law allowed Christians to freely practice their faith publicly in Rome without fear of persecution.
The Council of Trent B. The Edict of Elysium C. The Edict of Milan D. The Jedi Order
4. Once nomad groups settled down, they were called ____________ people.
Greek B. Neolithic C. Tribal D. Gothic
5. Rome defeated this city state in each of the three Punic Wars.
Athens B. Sparta C. Carthage D. Constantinople
6. Alexander the Great spread this culture throughout his empire.
Roman B. Greek (Hellenistic) C. Buddhist (Shinto) D. National Socialist
7. Monotheism is the belief in ________________.
One God B. Buddha C. Multiple Gods D. Ahura Mazda
8. The ____________ defeated the Persians at Marathon.
Spartans B. Romans C. Vandals D. Athenians
9. Rome first conquered this empire in Italy as they rose to power.
The Greeks B. The Etruscans C. The Macedonians D. The Gauls
10. He was Alexander the Great’s teacher.
Socrates B. Plato C. Aristotle D. Brutus
11. Early people lived as nomads in small __________ groups.
Mobile B. Self-sufficient C. Stationary D. Tight-knit
12. Julius Caesar, Pompey and Crassus formed this secret alliance in an attempt to control Rome.
The First Triumvirate B. The Illuminati C. The Mason s D. The Shadow Government
13. The act of spreading a culture to new lands is called ____________________.
A. Cultural Diversity B. Cultural Division C. Cultural Diffusion D. Cultural Demonstration
14. According to the myth regarding the foundation of Rome Remus was killed by his brother
Cain B. Romulus C. Spock D. Aristotle
15. Athens and Sparta teamed up to defeat this invading Empire.
The Romans B. The Persians C. The Greeks D. The Huns
16. This Emperor divided Rome into two Empires in the years leading up to its fall.
Diocletian B. Caligula C. Constantine D. Augustus
17. This area in the Middle East contained wheat, barley and domesticated animals which allowed early people to thrive.
The River Valley B. Macedonia C. Gaul D. The Fertile Crescent
18. During the second Punic war, Hannibal crossed the _____________ in order to reach Rome.
The Mediterranean Sea B. The Alps C. The Rubicon D. The Egyptian Desert
19. This Greek city-state won the Peloponnesian War.
Athens B. Sparta C. Ithaca D. Pompey
20. Before Julius Caesar took power in Rome they lived under a ____________________ form of government.
Democracy B. Oligarchy C. Dictatorship D. Republic
21. Athens ______________
22. Sparta ______________
23. Byzantine ____________
24. Goths_______________
25. Carthage_____________
A. Militaristic Greek City-State
B. North African City-State
C. Germanic Tribe
D. Eastern Roman Empire
E. Democratic Greek City-State
26. The Romans invented the first Postal System. ____
27. At an early age, young Athenian boys would be taken from their mothers to start their military training. _____
28. The Olympic Games originated in Rome. _____
29. Christianity, Islam and Hinduism all share a common place of origin. _____
30. By defeating Rome in the Punic Wars, Carthage became the most powerful empire in the world. ____
31. Short Answer. On the next page answer ONE of the following three questions. Please use complete sentences.
A. What impact did Julius Caesar have on Rome?
B. What was the effect of Sparta’s victory over Athens in the Peloponnesian War?
C. How did the transition from hunter-gatherers to farmers impact early peoples?
There really wasn't a lot of higher order thinking questions here. The test was valid though, we covered all of this, I triple checked.
We're starting our next unit tomorrow which I get to design from the ground up, so I'm going to be making a few changes. I'm going to start providing them with a list of key concepts before each lesson and I'm going to figure out some activity to check for better understanding following each lesson.
Mobile B. Self-sufficient C. Stationary D. Tight-knit
This is the only question that seems dubious to me. Certainly the groups were either mobile or stationary. Is it unequivocally true that they were neither self-sufficient nor stationary?
I could see an argument for a couple of answers here, but we were looking for Mobile.
I'm really thinking apathy is to blame here.
I also appreciate how you throw a humorous answer in here and there. I always enjoyed that on tests because 1) it made the question easier and 2) nothing like a little chuckle to cheer someone up half way through a chunk of multiple choice questions.
I might even say 2 is an iffy one, but that's only because none of my high school teachers adequately handled the difference between a republic and a democracy, and when I hit college and took my required poli sci 100 class, half the class wasn't even aware there was a difference. If you did the material justice, no problem.
Still... Two questions out of over 30, and one of them is a hypothetical review shortfall. That might bring a few people up a letter grade but it's not going to save all those F's by any means. I'm going to stick with what I said before: They're being typical high school students. You're not a "real teacher" and "it's not like you can do anything" to them anyway, so they're not taking you seriously.
It doesn't help your case that either A. the teacher won't count anything that happens in your student teaching towards their grades anyway, or B. "If enough of us do badly we can just say he's a terrible teacher and it won't be fair to count it," (yes, I remember hearing this one - hell, I made it once when we had an honestly terrible student teacher who stammered and stuttered at us for a week and then gave us a test on Christ knows what material outside the chapter).
It seems like the best way to get a better performance on the next exam might be to explain to them the level of detail you are expecting their knowledge to have, and review some of the questions from this test to remind them - "yes guys, you need to know the important differences between Rome and Carthage, not just that they fought".
I mean, if that test is meant to be given over 2 hours, they have no excuse. If, however, you're giving them like 5 minutes, that's a little different. Even the almost easiest questions that you don't happen to exactly remember you can mess up if you run out of time.
Honestly, that test looks way too easy. Aside from question 31, you're right, your whole test has a depth of knowledge level of 1. For a summative assessment like that, that's really not going to give you an accurate assessment of what students actually know about that topic. I'd focus on question 31 - what percent of your class got that correct? If they did alright there, then they probably have a fairly decent grasp on the big idea but fall down on the details. If they did poorly on that question as well, then it kinda smacks of your teaching not aligning to your assessment.
For the rest of the test, Q. 1-30, it seems like either or a combination of 2 things:
1. Student apathy - if I saw a test like that in high school, I would have written it off as being too easy and not worth any effort. Yeah, I was that kind of high school kid.
2. Somehow you weren't clear enough getting the information across.
But yeah, at this point, reteach reteach reteach, then re-test using a different test format/questions. Good luck with your student teaching!
As others said, 1-2 iffy questions out of 30 is not enough to cause the kind of results you are seeing. Seems like your kids either didn't give a shit or weren't expecting the questions to be so detail-oriented. Maybe they'll wise up for the next test.
edit: as an aside, be careful not to let one question answer another question. Question 31-B answers question 19, and Questions 1 and 17 answer each other.
I would be a lot more concerned with your situation if the kids normally do well and bombed your test. If that is the case then i would consult with your advising teacher to see if there is a flaw in your methods or if the kids are not taking you seriously.
Also, never underestimate a kids apathy toward school work and studying.
I had a similar experience to you when student teaching 12th grade economics. I was just a student teacher, they were apathetic seniors, and about half the class just didn't give a fuck what this guy who was only a couple of years older than them was saying.
Even now, as a 13 year veteran, I'll have kids absolutely bomb a test, and yes, I'll question whether or not it was my fault. And I'm a pretty good teacher, by whatever metric you care to name. Self-doubt is natural. But no, usually the kids slacked off, got cocky, had other things going on, 3 other tests that day, whatever. I'm guessing the students are new to your cooperating teacher as well, so he/she may not be able to tell you if this is par for the course for these kids.
Once you get to know them better - which is tough in the limited time of student teaching - you'll be able to gauge things better. For example, I know that if the handful of go-getters I have in each class all bomb a test, that it was probably too hard.
Also, is it actually important to know who taught Alexander the Great? Try to focus on things that the students will be able to recognize as parts of their world (easy to do with Greek and Roman history).
This question has way too many good answers to pick a single one:
"11. Early people lived as nomads in small __________ groups.
Mobile B. Self-sufficient C. Stationary D. Tight-knit"
You mislead your students by using synonyms for "mobile" and "tight-knit" in the question itself. If you used scantron technology, my hunch is that this question had A, B and D in roughly equal measure as the answer.
Try to analyze each question statistically when considering whether to drop a question from a test, too. For example, if you know 80% of the course answered D but the answer was C, you know something was wrong with the question or your teaching, not the group.
I'm sure I did really bad on those tests, but so did everyone else. If anyone had taken the time to read the text book, they would have been fine. But most of the students in the class didn't and so the teacher just curved everyones grade.
tl;dr they're just lazy but so was I when I was in there shoes
I only ask because most of those questions seem like pretty basic knowledge or comprehension level, which doesn't really give them a chance to show you what they learned.
Also, writing up your objectives before each lesson plan is a great idea, especially if you let your students in on them.
Finally, how actively engaged are they in the class? Are they all falling asleep? Are they participating in discussion, asking questions?
There's a potential misuse of corn here, since you refer to maize in another option (but since it's part of the incorrect answer this shouldn't matter).
As noted, the intricacies of republics and a democracies are not readily apparent to most people. Since this class appears to have covered Greek and Roman history I would assume it would have been adequately covered (my world history teacher from many years ago liked to at least emphasize a democracy's rule by majority by using its Greek etymology).
That out of the way, both republics and democracies have the potential to grant all people the power to vote on laws (although direct democracies of Athenian design gave any viable person the potential to vote on everything).
Student answers in this case may be influenced by the grammar of your statement. "Neolithic people" is somewhat uncommon (neolithic tends to be used to refer to a group's adoption of tool use and plant cultivation). I would guess you received a lot of C answers here (regardless of the fact that nomads can also be tribes).
I would guess you received some A answers here (potentially confusing Thermopylae with Marathon or a battle from a Peloponnesian war - not necessarily missing the geographic and historical distinction between Sparta and Athens).
As noted the adjective use here may be confusing and there are arguably multiple possible answers.
This is actually a good example of trying to jog students' memories. Some may recognize that Aristotle is an important figure and remember his relation for question 10.
This, on the other hand, is a little to blatant; at this point no one should have your first question wrong (but reading comprehension or attentiveness may still lead some astray).
I know this is matching and all, but these are disparate items (locations and cultures). However, Athens is the only major outlier here (it was not consistently a democratic polis under the period you're exploring).
As a pedantic note: the noun form of the Byzantine is Byzantium (from the initial city).
This is a double question and may end up confusing students ("Were boys taken from their mothers?"; "Was that in Athens?"). You may have ended up with students responding to one question, but not the other.
Again, B. is a bit blatant for the answer to Q. 19.
Some of these questions are of questionable utility (e.g. you have a question about Alexander's teacher but not the extent of his exploits, his Macedonian heritage or his impact on the Eastern Mediterranean). Aside for small niggles on some questions, however, it appears to be a relatively easy test.
How was the short answer question weighted (and how did students perform)? That seems to be the portion with the most intellectual heft.
Talk to your advisor and see if the grades you received are consistent with his perspective on each student. If so, then you may not have much to worry about - although it might be enlightening to try to figure out why both you and your more experienced colleague are encountering the same issues. If not, then it could very well be an issue of your teaching style, the context ("student" teacher), etc. etc. etc.
If this is your first test, sometimes you need to set expectations with the first one, and then the kids wise up and slowly start going along with the flow. I always knew which teachers I could BS and which ones I actually had to show up for, but I always tried to see how much I could get away with. I think that's just human nature, especially at that age. (Some kids express this academically, others express it in other ways, but they're almost always trying to gauge your expectations and their boundaries of behavior.)
Yeah i'm gonna go with they don't give a shit about a)your test b)you as a teacher and most likely c)both.