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Collection agency strangeness
Hevach
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Ok, not entirely sure what situation I've been dragged into, but here's the timeline:
Some time ago (July I believe, didn't keep any record) I received a collection call from a collection agency looking for somebody (a woman's name) I'd never heard of. I told them I was the sole owner of the phone number and only resident of the house and they said, "Thank you," and hung up.
Over the last week, I received several subsequent communications.
First was a series of phone calls from the same number as before. I went through my same routine on the first one, hung up on two more.
Second was a phone call from a different number, this number I was able to track back to the full name and location of the firm with a bit of googleing. Anyway, this time I kept the guy on the line - I was bored and off work and felt like wasting some jackass's time. Despite obviously not being the woman they were looking for, I got the name of the creditor and the amount owed, and apparently the debt was already certified and mailed to the address on record, they offered to get a second copy and send to another address. I didn't give them my address, and wrapped up by telling them again I was the sole resident at the number they were calling. The guy cursed and hung up.
Note on this, I didn't claim to know the person, didn't say I represented them. I just kept answering their questions with random questions (What's your firm's name, your name, location, what's your phone extension number) until he started giving me answers. Once he did, I asked stuff like who are you trying to contact again, do you have a phone number on record (it was disconnected), address (he didn't give it), etc.
Third was a phone call from a third number. I missed this call, but they left a voice mail giving the full name of the firm (it matched what I'd looked up after the last call) and that a lien was being sought against my property, giving an address. I don't have any property on that street, so I drove past and found a derelict business that had been taken by the county for unpaid taxes so long ago the notice taped to the inside of the front window had turned yellow and curled at the corners. The signs were badly defaced and the door was boarded over, so I can't even tell what used to be there.
Nothing unexpected on my credit report. I have one outstanding debt, but I've confirmed it's not in collections.
Currently they don't seem to have my address - they mention letters when they call but I've received nothing.
Can I safely be rude if they call again?
Can I get in trouble for asking questions like I did with that second call?
Should I go down to the registrar of deeds tomorrow and find out who owned that building?
Seeing as just telling them I'm the sole owner of the number wasn't enough, do I have any other recourse to get them to stop contacting me on this person's debt?
Some time ago (July I believe, didn't keep any record) I received a collection call from a collection agency looking for somebody (a woman's name) I'd never heard of. I told them I was the sole owner of the phone number and only resident of the house and they said, "Thank you," and hung up.
Over the last week, I received several subsequent communications.
First was a series of phone calls from the same number as before. I went through my same routine on the first one, hung up on two more.
Second was a phone call from a different number, this number I was able to track back to the full name and location of the firm with a bit of googleing. Anyway, this time I kept the guy on the line - I was bored and off work and felt like wasting some jackass's time. Despite obviously not being the woman they were looking for, I got the name of the creditor and the amount owed, and apparently the debt was already certified and mailed to the address on record, they offered to get a second copy and send to another address. I didn't give them my address, and wrapped up by telling them again I was the sole resident at the number they were calling. The guy cursed and hung up.
Note on this, I didn't claim to know the person, didn't say I represented them. I just kept answering their questions with random questions (What's your firm's name, your name, location, what's your phone extension number) until he started giving me answers. Once he did, I asked stuff like who are you trying to contact again, do you have a phone number on record (it was disconnected), address (he didn't give it), etc.
Third was a phone call from a third number. I missed this call, but they left a voice mail giving the full name of the firm (it matched what I'd looked up after the last call) and that a lien was being sought against my property, giving an address. I don't have any property on that street, so I drove past and found a derelict business that had been taken by the county for unpaid taxes so long ago the notice taped to the inside of the front window had turned yellow and curled at the corners. The signs were badly defaced and the door was boarded over, so I can't even tell what used to be there.
Nothing unexpected on my credit report. I have one outstanding debt, but I've confirmed it's not in collections.
Currently they don't seem to have my address - they mention letters when they call but I've received nothing.
Can I safely be rude if they call again?
Can I get in trouble for asking questions like I did with that second call?
Should I go down to the registrar of deeds tomorrow and find out who owned that building?
Seeing as just telling them I'm the sole owner of the number wasn't enough, do I have any other recourse to get them to stop contacting me on this person's debt?
Hevach on
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Being rude and asking questions isn't illegal.
Or, he could threaten to get his lawyer involved.
http://consumer-rights.suite101.com/article.cfm/debt-collectors-go-after-wrong-people-to-collect-money
I mean, I don't know what country or state the OP is in. He should do some specific research before going that route. But if someone keeps intruding into my private life with successive phone calls to collect a debt I definitely do not owe from someone who definitely does not reside at my address and definitely has nothing to do with the phone number at my address, I might be patient once, twice, maybe even a third time, but at that point I will tell them in no uncertain terms that if they call my house again I will do whatever I can to impress on them that further calls are not only unwelcome, but unacceptable, and that they will incur the interest of my lawyer.
Again, I do NOT recommend this until the OP researches the legal situation specific to his country and state. But I wouldn't just let someone harass me either.
internet tough guy comin through.
OP why are you trying so hard to make this your problem? It isn't your debt, they aren't looking for you, and you've confirmed through your credit report that this isn't your problem. So why are you doing all this?
Maybe someone falsified a phone number when they signed up for something. Fairly common thing. I've been getting calls for various members of a family called Whitehead. Johnny Whitehead, Jane Whitehead, and I think maybe even a couple others. I've been getting these calls for over a decade. I get them because the Whiteheads had my number before me. I've explained to these people numerous times and yet it never stops. Granted I'm not getting bombarded with telephone calls about these people but I just don't get why you would want to make this your problem. You're doing goddamn detective work around town to get to the bottom of some deadbeat's debt who probably put in some random number that happened to be yours.
Shogun Streams Vidya
I'm...
Are you calling me an internet tough guy? I mean it sounds like you agree with me, and all I was suggesting is to assert one's legal right not to be unduly harassed.
edit: Oh, the red wasn't there when I initially hit "quote."
So despite you agreeing with my general position, and that harassing someone for a debt they aren't responsible for is likely illegal, I'm an "internet tough guy"? Did you click on the link I posted, wherein some debt collection agencies will actually go after people that do not owe the debt, and that doing so is illegal?
The fact is, this sounds shady, and threatening to involve a lawyer when someone is trying to bamboozle you usually scares them off.
I'm sorry that you consider your rights so unimportant that it becomes "internet tough guy" to assert them, but your lack of comprehension or self respect isn't helpful advice for the OP.
No I'm not agreeing with you. I think the OP should go about his own life instead of playing hardy boys chasing after some deadbeat that used the OP's phone number. I also think it would be quite fruitless to go all Phoenix Wright on some collections monkey over the phone.
Shogun Streams Vidya
Please see my edit.
Also, perhaps you should take some advice from this thread: Asserting your legal rights isn't playing "internet tough guy." It's asserting your legal rights.
Forgive me the internet tough guy bit just comes from how your post reads. Asserting your legal rights is one thing, but doing so with the collections monkey that calls is not the proper channel. Sadly I briefly worked at a collections agency and you have to go quite far in asserting your legal rights to get the phone calls to stop. Even if they've got the wrong person. There are other ways however besides shouting LAWYER into the phone.
To the OP: Basically you're going to have to prove your identity, as well as prove your 'ownership' of the phone number and for how long. What sucks about this is it might require giving these people information that I, having worked at one of these places, would never give these people willingly. It really is a bit of a double-edged sword. You're going to go through a shitload of trouble when you could just ignore the phone calls. They aren't after you so why make it your problem?
Shogun Streams Vidya
I was the day manager for a telemarketing firm and I know there are two different sets of laws that govern collection agencies and telemarketing firms (especially now - I was managing back when Do Not Call lists had just started to become a "thing") but I will say that our CEO and Director both had a policy that whenever a person we called threatened to get their lawyer involved, it elicited an immediate (and different) response from when someone just mildly complained.
Also, that collection agent may not have the authority, but he isn't a complete proxy either. He is still the primary point of contact, and he is still a representative of the collection agency (or as it was in my case, telemarketing firm).
So I guess it is from that perspective - having worked behind the phone lines of people that make a living annoying people at home - that I recommend threatening a lawyer, especially when your rights are clearly being impinged on, which I believe the OP's are. I can at least offer anecdotal proof that it can have an immediate, positive response for you (the consumer or wronged party).
Perhaps I should have explained myself clearer in the beginning. I may have come off as a little enraged, because I admit situations like this do annoy me greatly, when someone is being harassed in this manner.
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The OP is not the owner of the debt.
And is not at the address given for the owner of the debt.
And has no connection with the owner of the debt except the phone number.
And just wants the phone calls to stop, yes?
Then send the certified letter telling the collections agency to stop calling you. If you want you could say that you don't owe any debts to them or to the creditor they represent, but that's not information that you are in any way obligated to provide.
It's not your job to assist the collections agency with collecting. Tell them to leave you alone, and let them do the detective work on tracking down this debt.
It's not necessary to threaten lawyers unless they continue to to contact you after being told to cease and desist.
But the lien call crossed a weird line. It's still not my property or my debt, but my name's involvement somehow passed beyond just a phone number.
Did you give them your name at any point in your conversations?
Shogun Streams Vidya
i am sure they'll be thrilled to kick the shit out of someone trying to lien their asset illegally.
So there is a lien on this property that you do not, and have never owned, but they say that the property is in your name?
In that case, contact them by registered mail and tell them to prove that you owe this debt/ owned this property. If they can't prove it, then they can't collect from you.
If they do come back with evidence, you should contact the police. You may want to contact the police anyway, and give a statement, because it's starting to sound like identity theft. If it's not identity theft, and the collection agency is lying to you about the property being in your name, then it might be fraud on the part of the collection agency. Which should also involve you getting in contact with the police.
No. Don't be a dick.
Maybe, but it's none of your business.
No. It's none of your business.
Instead of telling them you are "the sole owner of the phone number" and playing detective try telling them, "I have no idea who this person is."
It sounds like a shitty and/or illegal agency, and with you asking questions, you're now the best lead they got.
Send the letter. If they call again, state you are only speaking to them via post and they are not to contact you again.
These guys rely on scare tactics to get you to pay, apparently regardless of if you actually owe the debt, many of which are illegal. They can't call your boss or neighbors, without court proceedings they can't take a lien out on your house (trust me, i'm in process of doing that to someone i sued, it aint a simple thing). There are protections in place for a reason, use em.
Initially I was polite and I just let them know they had to wrong number and that I didn't know the person. Eventually I got fed up with them calling all the time and started getting upset with them over the phone. So I typed up a nice cease and desist letter and threatened to sue if they continued to harass me. Never heard from them again.
Also, and I realize that it sounds creepy but, I found the person they were looking for on facebook and sent her a message about it and that this company had essentially given me all her information and that she may have a legitimate complaint against them concerning that. I never got a reply from her so I just left it at that.
DO NOT TELL THEM YOU ARE ONLY SPEAKING TO THEM VIA POST. Tell them you are not speaking with them at all. If they are sueing you, you will be notified, but do not give them an address or any other way to talk to you.
I think he means, all future contact must be in writing and sent to his residence. if they don't have his address, then the debt probably aint valid, etc, etc. I don't think he's advocating giving them his address so they can send him info.
Practice what you preach, and there is nothing keeping him from being rude. There are however laws that dictate how the Collection Rep can act, and say. That guy cannot be rude, or swear, or be demeaning.
No, he can't. It might not be any of his business, but it's illegal for the debt collector to give out most of that info, not illegal for him to ask, or recieve that info
This does not always work. Unless they have GOOD reason to believe that the OP lied to them during the first phone conversation, it is illegal for them to even call this number again.
Sounds like someone worked in the debt collection business. I have no ill will towards someone just doing their job, but a lot of these people are total douche bags. Until you have been harrassed by someone trying to collect illegally on a debt, your opinion is moot. What this debt collection guy is doing is ILLEGAL, and he and his company are monetarily liable. It is an automatic $1000 for every violation, and most violations are multiple dings. Big companies can get away with illegal stuff unless you the consumer stand up for yourself and exercise your rights.
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre27.pdf
Anyway, he did a bit of calling but no document searches yet. This is what I got when I talked to him a few hours ago, it's apparently a much simpler situation than it looks from my end:
1. The woman's name wasn't even the original debtor, it was a man's name.
2. The building was a mechanic's garage. It was closed almost 20 years ago.
3. The collector actually already has a summary judgment against me that's (Edit: Date fail) just two years old now. According to the stuff they faxed the lawyer, a process server served me at my "home address" (the derelict building) back in 2008 and a judgment was entered when I didn't show up for court.
None of this was at all news apparently, this collector has been through the legal wringer and somehow is still doing business this way. Anyway, sum it up, in 2008, this firm sewer served a bunch of recent free-and-clear homeowners for Washington Mutual mortgages that weren't theirs to collect on and weren't the homeowners' to pay, then tried to collect on the default judgments by telling people they'd bought the mortgage with the house. I did some looking on my own, and apparently variations on this same WaMu mortgage scam were big enough business that WaMu and Chase themselves were doing it.
My case is a bit strange because this burned out Muffler Man got in the way, and their usual collection methods were all undeliverable until somehow they got a phone number. They still don't know about the mistake, but at the end of the month if they go through with obtaining a lien I assume they'll know immediately that it's county property and that they can't get a lien on it, and who knows what their next move will be.
I guess this thread can be called resolved, it's outside of H&A scope now. No offense to some of the people who offered their help, but I'm goddamn glad I ran around and played detective over the weekend. I've still got a ways to go, but it looks pretty much over except busywork now.
Wait a minute.
You're saying that the first time you ever heard from them is this past July, which ended less than a month ago.
They are claiming that they served you legal documents via process server, who absolutely has to deliver them to you in person after identifying you (they don't have to physically hand you the papers, but they do have to be in your presence, and close by - after identifying you as the recipient, they can drop them at your feet or near you and you are thus legally served).
Either someone pretended to be you and accepted papers from a process server OR the process server did not do his duties legally OR this company is excessively shady to an astounding degree. Or maybe a combination of some or all of the above. This goes beyond simple harassment in my book. I know you say that the situation is "solved" insofar as H/A is concerned, but please keep on top of it and I hope this works out in your favor with little hassle.
edit: In other words, a process server cannot serve papers to a derelict building. They cannot even serve papers to a home that is clearly being lived in. They can only serve papers to a person. I'm not actually sure if they are legally bound to this in all locations, but I know that this is what they are supposed to do.
Like I said, sewer service, not process service. The process server throws the papers in the sewer (so to speak) and signs their part of the documentation that it was done properly, then the collector gets a default judgment and goes to collect. I've heard of it before, politicians say pretty common in Michigan even with legitimate debts. The penalties are comical and on the server, the collector isn't liable. Normally it's just about impossible to prove, too, the worse that happens is somebody actually has to argue their case on its merits.
My default judgement (against the other guy) got reversed when he was properly served, the court date changed, and he didn't show up. His excuse? He didn't know the court date changed. BULLSHIT.
Except the desire to not be a dick. You should never be rude or advocate being rude to some phone monkey who is doing his job. That's shitty advice, holmes.
Drez, this isn't true, dude. You can serve people by certified mail, nail it to their home, or serve it to the receptionist at their place of business.
I didn't tell him to be rude. I merely pointed out that there was no reason for him not to be, except for the desire to Not be a dick, which if that was his desire, he wouldn't be asking. In any case, the info that the rep gave him, was illegal for him to release. He broke the law, the OP did not.
My uncle does process serving as one aspect of his business. According to him, what you've just stated is not true. According to every single website I googled on the subject, which I did before posting what I posted, what you've said isn't true. The following website, called processservers.com, also backs up what I've stated:
http://www.processservers.com/resources/faqs#faq1
So what I've said is correct. You cannot "nail it to the home" or merely send it by certified mail, though depending on the situation and the state, mailing the documents via certified mail in addition to some other process may suffice, but not on its own. Also, it is true that depending on the state, handing it to a receptionist or, say, a parent or spouse may suffice, but only if the court agrees that all other attempts to reach the individual in person has failed.
Why do you think process serving is a profession in the first place? If it was a matter of simply mailing stuff to someone's house, the position wouldn't exist as it currently does. The reason it does exist, and in this manner, is because receiving notification of being sued is a part of due process in the US legal system. It rightly goes to great lengths to ensure this happens.
http://www.courts.state.ny.us/courts/nyc/civil/starting.shtml
Granted the rules in Michigan may be different and IANAL, but a server does not have to be in the presence and identify the person he is serving.. This is what you said and it is incorrect. The real question is how in hell did they get his name associated with this debt.
Edit: The website you linked even shows that substituted service is possible.
http://complaintwire.org/Complaint.aspx/FS3hHCUSZwC9QgjLIjw-Aw
Not the same collection agency, I don't even know the truth in the claims on the page, just the first Michigan one I turned up when I was checking out some of the stuff the lawyer thought would interest me while I sit and wait for something to happen. Either way, general claims are the same: Collector takes a debt that may or may not be real and just passes it to someone else (usually elderly or people filing bankruptcy already, other times new homeowners) on some grounds, uses sewer service to make sure they don't show up for court, and then general douchebaggery to get money out of the deal.
In this case the original lawsuit states that when I bought the house in 2007 (I inherited it actually) I was picking up the existing mortgage payments.
Enough people are uninformed or can be convinced it's cheaper to pay than to fight or that they'll lose more if they try, and in the off chance somebody actually does fight, apparently they just quietly disappear and bank on people being glad to be done with them.
tl;dr: Scam is scam.