[World of Darkness] Not as dead as you'd think...

cj iwakura

This will be my second MMO ever, so I have no idea what to expect. The only other one I played was Shin Megami Tensei: Imagine, and it devoured my free time more than I feel comfortable admitting.

Just_Bri_Thanks

The big problem with mages wasn't the power level of the mages; paradox and magical opposition was sufficient balance to see to that. The problem with mages is how you handle the UI and the sheer number of ways they could manifest what power they had.

cj iwakura

You could base an entire single player campaign around the intricacies of the Mage universe. I'm not sure an MMO could handle it.

Caveman Paws

I am trying to prepare myself for the possibility that the count down clock will strike zero, days will pass, and we will have no more info on this MMO then we do today.

Vampire only MMO is my bet, maybe other supers later via expansions or something. Since I'm burnt out on the exsisting online WOD chats this is my last chance at keeping any interest in WW games.

Travan

If I had to guess I'd say most of the simpler spells would make heavy use of context-sensitive/drop-down menus, so something like select arcana, select effect, target, etc, fire . This would make rotes that much more useful since you could fire-and-forget. Once you start getting into mastery and multiple arcana spells there'd have to be a limit to which you can cast at any one time.

I realize that this probably simplifies much of the system and that one of the defining characteristics of Mage is access to all these different powers at a whim, but I really want to bring my high-flying, hard-hitting Free Council radical to life and if the mechanics have to suffer a bit then so be it.

Comahawk

Caveman Paws wrote: »

I am trying to prepare myself for the possibility that the count down clock will strike zero, days will pass, and we will have no more info on this MMO then we do today.

Vampire only MMO is my bet, maybe other supers later via expansions or something. Since I'm burnt out on the exsisting online WOD chats this is my last chance at keeping any interest in WW games.

Got tired of over-dictatorial STs?

KoopahTroopah

Comahawk wrote: »

Caveman Paws wrote: »

I am trying to prepare myself for the possibility that the count down clock will strike zero, days will pass, and we will have no more info on this MMO then we do today.

Vampire only MMO is my bet, maybe other supers later via expansions or something. Since I'm burnt out on the exsisting online WOD chats this is my last chance at keeping any interest in WW games.

Got tired of over-dictatorial STs?

An ST that doesn't give out options is a bad ST. If they can't handle that you don't want to follow their storyline, they shouldn't be an ST. lol. They're supposed to mold the story around the player's actions, not try to get the players to follow the premade storyline.

On a game related note, why call it World of Darkness if they weren't going to involve most-all of the supers that are in the game? If it was only going to be about Vampires, they would just call it Vampire The Masquerade Online.

I would also be upset if they didn't release any information on Friday. Here's hoping that CCP keeps their promises and are not like Blizzard and Valve.

Fiaryn

Travan wrote: »

Fiaryn wrote: »

cj iwakura wrote: »

What's this I hear about an update within a week? Do want!

To play as a Mage, that is.


I really hope there's cross-Order political drama.

Whatever happens, I can guarantee this won't.

It's an MMORPG, you should probably scale your hopes down a bit.

I'm just curious, have you played EVE Online? Because the shit most decent-sized player corporations get down to on a daily basis really isn't too far from what he's talking about.

TBH, I'm just dying to find out how CCP goes about this. With EVE they started with little more than a whole-cloth concept that seemed totally impossible to execute successfully, and just iterated on it until they arrived at a product which, while certainly not without flaws, was totally different from anything else that has been dome before or since. This time they've already got such a depth of material to work with that I can't see this not being substantially different from traditional MMO fare.

EDIT: Personally I'd rather they nerf mages to not be omniscient or capaple of destroying foes a continent away with a thought then not have them at all.

I know all about EVE, and what happens in EVE is not what he describes. Knowing CJ, I'm guessing he's hoping for political drama that is in some way vaguely related to the lore of WoD.

That will never happen. What WILL happen, if it's anything like EVE, is drama over dolla dolla billz. E-Moneys. E-Territory. Not lore. 99% players will give not a single fuck about lore.

Comahawk

I am amused that people think because CCP is making this game that it will be exactly like EvE.

As for fighting for territory, I sure fucking hope so, those are huge aspects of both Werewolf and Vampire. Money also factors into the WoD, one clan of vampires is stereotypically known for being heavily into business and finance. Truthfully, CCP is one of the few companies that I can see doing a WoD MMO any sort of justice, they have created a truly unique game in EvE, and not another WoW/Fantasy MMO as everyone else is doing, plus they are working side-by-side with white wolf in the production of this game.

So, I actually have a little faith in them being able to pull this off, or in the very least, this game being true to the tabletop games.

Just_Bri_Thanks

Let's not forget that aside from there not being as much food in rural areas, what most keeps vampires in the largest population centers is that THERE ARE FUCKING WEREWOLVES OUT THERE, MAN!

It would be interesting if, to compare this to Eve yet again, rather than star systems you had city blocks to gain control over for your faction. There are a metric fuck-ton of city blocks in a large city.


Of course, even the largest city can only support a relative handful of kindred, so I don't see this being one expansive universe like Eve.

MagicPrime

Mage for me, if not Mage then Werewolf. Vampires...I hate vampires...

Travan

Fiaryn wrote: »

Travan wrote: »

Fiaryn wrote: »

cj iwakura wrote: »

I really hope there's cross-Order political drama.

Whatever happens, I can guarantee this won't.

It's an MMORPG, you should probably scale your hopes down a bit.

I'm just curious, have you played EVE Online? Because the shit most decent-sized player corporations get down to on a daily basis really isn't too far from what he's talking about.

I know all about EVE, and what happens in EVE is not what he describes. Knowing CJ, I'm guessing he's hoping for political drama that is in some way vaguely related to the lore of WoD.

That will never happen. What WILL happen, if it's anything like EVE, is drama over dolla dolla billz. E-Moneys. E-Territory. Not lore. 99% players will give not a single fuck about lore.

And? Most conflict between orders and covenants is over money, influence, territory, resources. Fairly mundane stuff.

Comahawk wrote: »

I am amused that people think because CCP is making this game that it will be exactly like EvE.

As for fighting for territory, I sure fucking hope so, those are huge aspects of both Werewolf and Vampire. Money also factors into the WoD, one clan of vampires is stereotypically known for being heavily into business and finance. Truthfully, CCP is one of the few companies that I can see doing a WoD MMO any sort of justice, they have created a truly unique game in EvE, and not another WoW/Fantasy MMO as everyone else is doing, plus they are working side-by-side with white wolf in the production of this game.

So, I actually have a little faith in them being able to pull this off, or in the very least, this game being true to the tabletop games.

Exactly. It may not wind up appealing to everyone, but it won't be another WoW/WAR/LOTRO clone.

Undead Scottsman

Just_Bri_Thanks wrote: »

Let's not forget that aside from there not being as much food in rural areas, what most keeps vampires in the largest population centers is that THERE ARE FUCKING WEREWOLVES OUT THERE, MAN!

Not really. Not anymore.

Vampires, for the most part, don't care about Werewolves and vice versa. Werewolves are territorial, but they'll beat up other werewolves as much as vampires if they intrude. Plus I'm pretty sure both Vamps and Werewolves have established presences in forest and city areas, respectively.

Comahawk

Undead Scottsman wrote: »

Just_Bri_Thanks wrote: »

Let's not forget that aside from there not being as much food in rural areas, what most keeps vampires in the largest population centers is that THERE ARE FUCKING WEREWOLVES OUT THERE, MAN!

Not really. Not anymore.

Vampires, for the most part, don't care about Werewolves and vice versa. Werewolves are territorial, but they'll beat up other werewolves as much as vampires if they intrude. Plus I'm pretty sure both Vamps and Werewolves have established presences in forest and city areas, respectively.

Vamps still tend to stick to cities because of food and out of the wilderness due to a lack of food. I can't remember where, but I recall reading that the kindred still tell stories of evil lupines out to get them in the wilderness.

Which is ridiculous, because they also inhabit the city, and possibly in a more concentrated manner.

cj iwakura

Travan wrote: »

If I had to guess I'd say most of the simpler spells would make heavy use of context-sensitive/drop-down menus, so something like select arcana, select effect, target, etc, fire . This would make rotes that much more useful since you could fire-and-forget. Once you start getting into mastery and multiple arcana spells there'd have to be a limit to which you can cast at any one time.

I realize that this probably simplifies much of the system and that one of the defining characteristics of Mage is access to all these different powers at a whim, but I really want to bring my high-flying, hard-hitting Free Council radical to life and if the mechanics have to suffer a bit then so be it.

Guardian all the way. Why fight the vamps when I can work my way into their society?

Travan

Just_Bri_Thanks wrote: »

Of course, even the largest city can only support a relative handful of kindred, so I don't see this being one expansive universe like Eve.

Considering how the sheer number and variety of supernaturals lurking in the shadows of the World of Darkness gets lampshaded by the books themselves a couple times, I imagine some sharding is inevitable.

KoopahTroopah

Just_Bri_Thanks wrote: »

Of course, even the largest city can only support a relative handful of kindred, so I don't see this being one expansive universe like Eve.

Someone didn't play Matrix Online. If the city is even remotely as impressive as that game, I'd be satisfied. Apart from it being gigantic, it had fully explorable buildings, random NPCs, moving vehicles, a dynamic weather system, a fully staffed event team for server-wide storyline events, and so on...

A large city can definitely support thousands of players.

Comahawk

KoopahTroopah wrote: »

Just_Bri_Thanks wrote: »

Of course, even the largest city can only support a relative handful of kindred, so I don't see this being one expansive universe like Eve.

Someone didn't play Matrix Online. If the city is even remotely as impressive as that game, I'd be satisfied. Apart from it being gigantic, it had fully explorable buildings, random NPCs, moving vehicles, a dynamic weather system, a fully staffed event team for server-wide storyline events, and so on...

A large city can definitely support thousands of players.

This is also assuming it all will occur in one city and not several.

MagicPrime

It would make sense to have at least three cities, one a New York type, one a L.A. type and one a New Orleans type.

Caveman Paws

I'd like to see a border US/Mexico border town style city/town/area for people big into combat. Then maybe have LA and LV for peeps who want to play polotics and society heavy characters.

As for chat STs: My problem with them is they are never online and rarely run SL's/events.

Comahawk

I could see a mixture of American and European cities... But I am not up to date on my WoD lore, not sure how the other parts of the world work.

Reptar

Now, I could swear that I heard that this would only be incorporating the 'big three' (Vampire, Werewolf, and Mage), but certainly it wouldn't be that much of a chore to have Hunters as well, right? Though, if they are in this I assume it would be some sort of NPC type of deal, like with EVE's CONCORD guys, who show up when the monsters are getting too blatant with their super powers in public.

That'd be neat.

Just_Bri_Thanks

KoopahTroopah wrote: »

Just_Bri_Thanks wrote: »

Of course, even the largest city can only support a relative handful of kindred, so I don't see this being one expansive universe like Eve.

Someone didn't play Matrix Online. If the city is even remotely as impressive as that game, I'd be satisfied. Apart from it being gigantic, it had fully explorable buildings, random NPCs, moving vehicles, a dynamic weather system, a fully staffed event team for server-wide storyline events, and so on...

A large city can definitely support thousands of players.

I did play Matrix Online, from the beta no less. Not supporting thousands of player isn't what I said.

Fiaryn

KoopahTroopah wrote: »

Just_Bri_Thanks wrote: »

Of course, even the largest city can only support a relative handful of kindred, so I don't see this being one expansive universe like Eve.

Someone didn't play Matrix Online. If the city is even remotely as impressive as that game, I'd be satisfied. Apart from it being gigantic, it had fully explorable buildings, random NPCs, moving vehicles, a dynamic weather system, a fully staffed event team for server-wide storyline events,

Haven't devs said over and over again that the limed component isn't economic and is a sizeable drain on resources? It's no coincidence that it died off on Matrix Online fairly quick.

KoopahTroopah

Fiaryn wrote: »

KoopahTroopah wrote: »

Just_Bri_Thanks wrote: »

Of course, even the largest city can only support a relative handful of kindred, so I don't see this being one expansive universe like Eve.

Someone didn't play Matrix Online. If the city is even remotely as impressive as that game, I'd be satisfied. Apart from it being gigantic, it had fully explorable buildings, random NPCs, moving vehicles, a dynamic weather system, a fully staffed event team for server-wide storyline events,

Haven't devs said over and over again that the limed component isn't economic and is a sizeable drain on resources? It's no coincidence that it died off on Matrix Online fairly quick.

...We have devs?

That only died off because SOE took over and shat all over it. It was going strong while WB and Mono were still in charge. I think it was one of the most entertaining parts of MxO

If that's not what you meant about the megacity then I don't understand where you're coming from, WoD can easily be expanded on. Either way, we'll probably know some details in two days. But speculation is nice, keep it up.

MagicPrime

I would actually not want to see this fully open world. Open city-scape, hell yes. But not open world.

If you "leave" a city via Air-port/Highway/Train/Taxi/Walking you would just be given a world map with key locations pinned and choose to travel to that location.

Infact if this is based in the "real-world" as far as geography goes, they couldn't really do it any other way. It would also make it good for expanding content. They add a new city? A new pin is added to the world map to travel to the new zones.

Each city could have it's districts, suburbs and surrounding areas. But once you get so far out you're just presented with a dialog telling you you're leaving city limits and you can either turn around or enter the world map to choose a new location.

Edith_Bagot-Dix

MagicPrime wrote: »

I would actually not want to see this fully open world. Open city-scape, hell yes. But not open world.

If you "leave" a city via Air-port/Highway/Train/Taxi/Walking you would just be given a world map with key locations pinned and choose to travel to that location.

Infact if this is based in the "real-world" as far as geography goes, they couldn't really do it any other way. It would also make it good for expanding content. They add a new city? A new pin is added to the world map to travel to the new zones.

Each city could have it's districts, suburbs and surrounding areas. But once you get so far out you're just presented with a dialog telling you you're leaving city limits and you can either turn around or enter the world map to choose a new location.

I think this makes a lot of sense.

It would be interesting to see them implement some sort of influence system as well (like the various Minds Eye Theater iterations of the old WoD games had), where you can spend influence to monitor or control these things.

My attitude is a big vampire centric, because that was my favourite game back when I played a lot of WoD, but I think having multiple cities and territories within a city is really a must. Every WoD game I've ever played has had a LOT of player generated stories that simply revolve around who gets to sit in the big chair associated with their splat, and these big chairs are generally associated with a given city or region.

Mostlyjoe13

I have mixed feelings about this game. I'm pretty sure when CCP gobbled up White Wolf (merged) most of the creative writers got pushed into this and EVE projects so it all-but killed the writing projects for a year plus. Making being a fan of the print RPG kinda frustrating. But, the MMO sounds interesting and it might be out when I have a PC decent enough to play it. Unless they port it onto a console or two. Who knows. I know it sure as hell would beat going to a Cam event...

Fiaryn

KoopahTroopah wrote: »

Fiaryn wrote: »

KoopahTroopah wrote: »

Just_Bri_Thanks wrote: »

Of course, even the largest city can only support a relative handful of kindred, so I don't see this being one expansive universe like Eve.

Someone didn't play Matrix Online. If the city is even remotely as impressive as that game, I'd be satisfied. Apart from it being gigantic, it had fully explorable buildings, random NPCs, moving vehicles, a dynamic weather system, a fully staffed event team for server-wide storyline events,

Haven't devs said over and over again that the limed component isn't economic and is a sizeable drain on resources? It's no coincidence that it died off on Matrix Online fairly quick.

...We have devs?

I mean in developer interviews in general. I distinctly recall the Guild Wars guys stating it was economically unsound, and given they're the guys willing to put the kibosh on monthly fees I'd be inclined to trust them on that.

KoopahTroopah

Fiaryn wrote: »

KoopahTroopah wrote: »

Fiaryn wrote: »

KoopahTroopah wrote: »

Just_Bri_Thanks wrote: »

Of course, even the largest city can only support a relative handful of kindred, so I don't see this being one expansive universe like Eve.

Someone didn't play Matrix Online. If the city is even remotely as impressive as that game, I'd be satisfied. Apart from it being gigantic, it had fully explorable buildings, random NPCs, moving vehicles, a dynamic weather system, a fully staffed event team for server-wide storyline events,

Haven't devs said over and over again that the limed component isn't economic and is a sizeable drain on resources? It's no coincidence that it died off on Matrix Online fairly quick.

...We have devs?

I mean in developer interviews in general. I distinctly recall the Guild Wars guys stating it was economically unsound, and given they're the guys willing to put the kibosh on monthly fees I'd be inclined to trust them on that.

Oh I misread you, yeah I bet it is, but I think it was also the best part of the MMO.

Erich Zahn

Most city woofs are Forsaken, so they're smart enough to stay quiet. However, every splat-type has heard horror stories about the evil cannibal hillbilly rapist skinhead bastards in compounds who can turn into WOLFMAN and OH GOD HE PUNCHED THROUGH A BRICK WALL WHY DOESN'T SILVER WO- because those are the guys who roll into town and kill everyone they don't like.

The Territory aspect thing is probably based on the stuff from Block By Bloody Block.
EDIT:They may actually USE the city from Block By Bloody Block. I mean, it would fit perfectly with the idea of a WoD MMO

KoopahTroopah

So tonight's the night for information if we're getting any. Fingers crossed.

Fiaryn

As a rule I have no faith in new MMORPGs. However, I am interested in seeing where this goes because I at least trust CCP to make something non-generic. Even if its ultimate quality remains highly in question.

cj iwakura

Well this is anti-climatic.

KoopahTroopah

In case anyone is wondering, the counter went down but no other new news has shown up. Until a video shows up on youtube or something, it appears we're in the blind.

Fiaryn

Well that's not surprising. It's news released via convention, gonna need to wait a little bit for first hand reports to start appearing.

The people who could tell us about it are interacting with it.

KoopahTroopah

Oh stupid me, New Orleans is an hour behind eastern time. So it's really 6:36 there not 7:36.

So another 20 minutes to go guys.

Here's a twitter feed for grandmasquerade http://twitter.com/search?q=%23grandmasquerade

As well as an account to yfrog, where someone is uploading video and pictures of various events. http://www.yfrog.com/froggy.php?username=jachilli

Also news from planet-vampire.com forums:

"Grand Masquerade, Crescent City Ballroom - Saturday Noon – 1:00pm:The development team from the upcoming World of Darkness MMO describe their favorite moments from the World of Darkness, giving you a sneak peek behind the inspiration for the game....

Saturday 2:00pm – 3:00pm This is a rare opportunity to voice your feed...back directly to the development team of the upcoming World of Darkness MMO. Step up and tell them what you want to see in the World of Darkness game – an exclusive opportunity for all Grand Masquerade attendees!"

These are two events for tomorrow where probably a big bulk of questions will be answered.

KoopahTroopah

As of right now, according to twitter. CCP is announcing the game to attendees. There is no live feed to my knowledge so as videos pop up on youtube and on the internet, as well as other information, I'll post it here first and probably update the OP tomorrow.

Also qq double post. =(

cj iwakura

Isn't that Justin Achilli, the creator of V:TM(and other stuff probably)?

KoopahTroopah

So release date 2012, the game is based on Vampire the masquerade, or old world of darkness. Which means no wolves, no mages, no extra classes... =/ Apparently CCP realizes the amount of money that can be made with expansions.

""Vampire: the Masquerade" MMO will have a focus on player politics and social interaction."