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BigMan-ification

Dead LegendDead Legend Registered User regular
edited December 2010 in Social Entropy++
big l wrote: »
Hey, what is this thread?

This is the BigMan thread.

What's the deal, should I post here?

That depends. How cool do you find this?

Best played at maximum volume

Pretty fucking cool.

Welcome home. This is where we post about lifting things and moving around. We talk about fitness type stuff, give advice, etc, etc.

So in general, what are you guys about?

How fit you are is basically decided by two things – what you eat and what you do. In terms of eating, we obviously prefer healthy stuff – chicken, not high fructose corn syrup. We (hopefully rarely, at least) don't spaz out about ridiculously inconsequential things like the trainwreck that was the D&D Low Carb thread. Some people, in situations specific to them, will need to break these rules – little guys who need to live on ice cream to get some muscle on and big fellas who need to strict it up a bit to shed some fat. Nobody should ever drink soda. On the movement side, we like the meat and potatoes movements – squats, deadlifts, presses, bench presses, and rows/chin-ups are the foundations of any successful weightlifting program. Did I forget to mention that? Weightlifting is kind of our deal, as it should be yours if you have any sense. Anybody, whether they are trying to get big or small or stay the same, will be well-served by a steady diet of the compound lifts. The heavier the better.

So, I'm a guy who's too small and wants to get bigger. What's the deal?

Eat more. Put 200# on your squat and 100# on your bench and call me back in a year.

No, really.

No, really. There are lots of small guys, particularly of the younger persuasion, out there who are small because they just don't lift enough weight, because they don't eat enough to allow their bodies to make the recovery and progress that it can. Do a program that has lots of the aforementioned squats, benches, etc, and steadily increase the weight on the bar. The eating and the lifting are intertwined – if you don't eat, you won't increase the weight on the bar, and the weight on the bar is making sure those extra calories are going to muscle, not fat. Reps don't really matter – whatever you can consistently progress with. I personally like 5s. Regardless whether your goals have to do with strength or appearance, more weight on the bar is the key to making it happen, so you want a rep range where you can increase the weight on the bar regularly and progressively. If you must maintain aerobic conditioning, keep it under control. Tons of aerobic conditioning can really sap recovery and make it tough to make the progress you should in the lifting. Running is particularly tough, for me personally (coming from a guy who's done a 1:57 half marathon, which isn't fast by any means but isn't a chump run either) and for lots of other people. Think about getting on a Concept2 rower, or something else. Running uphill is better than the flat. If all this isn't clear, feel free to ask a question and we can bicker about minor details regarding this for pages.

So, I'm a guy who's too big and wants to get smaller. What's the deal?

Eat less and move more. Depending on your size, it might only take a little extra movement, especially since the big guys don't want to put too much stress on the joints too early with a ton of running. Really it comes down to eating less, and eating better. Everybody basically know what that means. Vegetables, lean meats, etc. Moving, just get yourself out of breath often and lift some weights so you can maintain or increase your muscle mass, which is a good thing.

So, I'm a girl. What's the deal?

See above. The main difference between girls and boys when it comes to lifting is that boys have more testosterone. This isn't a difference that means girls and boys should do radically different shit. Boys should squat, press, and deadlift – so should girls. Boys should do something that gets them out of breath once in a while – so should girls. Boys should eat healthy – so should girls. Girls won't turn into Arnoldess because they did a squat or a bench press – their rear ends will get better looking, their body composition will improve, and their bones will get stronger. There are, believe it or not, other girls who post here, and talk about whatever stuff they have to deal with that I don't understand.

What are some useful links?

Link library:
(too lazy right now to fully populate this but I promise I will edit some stuff in. Please suggest!)

Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. The absolute best resource for a novice who wants to learn about form and lifting. This book changed my life.

Wiki version of the above book. It's very good and helpful, but I wouldn't consider it a complete replacement.

Dave Tate on benching. He has a million bench articles, nearly all of which are excellent, but I think this is the Greatest Hits.

A Rather Long Analysis Of The Deadlift by Mark Rippetoe (pdf). This is the best article on the conventional deadlift I've read. Very clear on the biomechanics of the movement and how to move the bar as efficiently as possible.

kudos to big l for the last op, i'm lazy and starting a new lifting thread.

Dead Legend on
diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
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Posts

  • King NadaKing Nada Registered User
    edited September 2010
    Hello new bigman thread. Where does one go to find a good template for a 5/3/1 workout? I've found various articles on what it is, but not what I should be actively doing in the gym every week.

  • A duck!A duck! Super Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited September 2010
    So I've been doing 5-3-1, and I think I have go for the "harder" routine he presents. I've been doing the 10% steps between sets (i.e., week one is 65, 75 and 85%) and it's just not working for me. I'm on the 1+ week, and I'm getting 3-4 reps on things that I know I can do 5+ on. I think heavier weights in the first two sets will prepare me better for the final, or at least I hope so. Anyone else get anything similar?

    Favorite quotes
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  • the wookthe wook Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    so with the start of the school year, the gym is resuming normal hours and I will be able to go again. I haven't been in like 4 months, so I expect my numbers will suck.

  • The GeekThe Geek Oh-Two Crew Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2010
    Did some squats today.

    zappsigsm.jpg
    Amazon wish list | Please check out my wife's blog and jewelry store.
  • mensch-o-maticmensch-o-matic Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    im doing soccer now

    at first i figured 3 hours per week of running around would be enough exercise but now im having second thoughts

    does anyone have some tips on what i should be doing in the gym? right now i go once a week a day before practice, and mostly focus on my legs with the treadmill and my stomach/arms with the rowing machine

    im not looking to loose weight, per-se, i just want to tighten up a bit so i dont die on the field

  • Dead LegendDead Legend Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    you can do light squats and lunges

    i expect those to be useful soccer lifts

    diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
  • mensch-o-maticmensch-o-matic Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    so like 5-10 minutes of each?

  • YoSoyTheWalrusYoSoyTheWalrus Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    See if your gym has an agility ladder, those are fun.

    tumblr_mvlywyLVys1qigwg9o1_250.png
  • PeenPeen Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    King Nada wrote: »
    Hello new bigman thread. Where does one go to find a good template for a 5/3/1 workout? I've found various articles on what it is, but not what I should be actively doing in the gym every week.

    You mean like the ones here?

  • SinfoniaOperaSinfoniaOpera Registered User
    edited September 2010
    A duck! wrote: »
    So I've been doing 5-3-1, and I think I have go for the "harder" routine he presents. I've been doing the 10% steps between sets (i.e., week one is 65, 75 and 85%) and it's just not working for me. I'm on the 1+ week, and I'm getting 3-4 reps on things that I know I can do 5+ on. I think heavier weights in the first two sets will prepare me better for the final, or at least I hope so. Anyone else get anything similar?

    One of the things he says about the program is that you will have to find new rep maxes because of the other work you do during the workout. So even if you think you are doing weights you can for sure do in a different setting you might have to tweak the numbers for this program. Try actually dropping a few pounds across the sets and see what happens.

    If you don't mind my ask what are your approx 1RM? And how did you come about finding / estimating those numbers?


    The reason I ask is he says to take 90% of your 1RM as the basis for the lifts and if you need to figure your max to do so at the end of a workout. If you set it to high it will jack the whole meso cycle up.

    Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didnt do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover
  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I need to lift and further sculpt my pectorals and biceps

    once I was fat, but now I'm just scrawny.

    JKKaAGp.png
  • A duck!A duck! Super Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited September 2010
    A duck! wrote: »
    So I've been doing 5-3-1, and I think I have go for the "harder" routine he presents. I've been doing the 10% steps between sets (i.e., week one is 65, 75 and 85%) and it's just not working for me. I'm on the 1+ week, and I'm getting 3-4 reps on things that I know I can do 5+ on. I think heavier weights in the first two sets will prepare me better for the final, or at least I hope so. Anyone else get anything similar?

    One of the things he says about the program is that you will have to find new rep maxes because of the other work you do during the workout. So even if you think you are doing weights you can for sure do in a different setting you might have to tweak the numbers for this program. Try actually dropping a few pounds across the sets and see what happens.

    If you don't mind my ask what are your approx 1RM? And how did you come about finding / estimating those numbers?


    The reason I ask is he says to take 90% of your 1RM as the basis for the lifts and if you need to figure your max to do so at the end of a workout. If you set it to high it will jack the whole meso cycle up.

    I actually had a good idea of my 5-rep maxes from doing 3x5s, so I used those on the calculator and then tested two of them with 1 RM tries. One was over and one was under, but both were fairly close, so I just went with the calculations. I did my math right, that's no problem. The thing is, today I had 125 on my overhead press for my 1+, and did a set of 4. In August I did two sets of 5 at the same weight. It wasn't even a bad day, because I tore through everything else with no problems. Both of these are with the press as my first lift, as well. I know about reducing variables.

    It's not bothering me too much, because I'm more than meeting the rep goals, but I'm a little :? at the thought of unexpectedly sliding back.

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  • A duck!A duck! Super Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited September 2010
    Peen wrote: »
    King Nada wrote: »
    Hello new bigman thread. Where does one go to find a good template for a 5/3/1 workout? I've found various articles on what it is, but not what I should be actively doing in the gym every week.

    You mean like the ones here?

    Texas isn't 5-3-1.

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  • RabidDeathMooseRabidDeathMoose Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    im doing soccer now

    at first i figured 3 hours per week of running around would be enough exercise but now im having second thoughts

    does anyone have some tips on what i should be doing in the gym? right now i go once a week a day before practice, and mostly focus on my legs with the treadmill and my stomach/arms with the rowing machine

    im not looking to loose weight, per-se, i just want to tighten up a bit so i dont die on the field

    If I were you, and I practically am...

    I wouldn't lift on days right before practice. Depending on how many games of soccer you're playing and if they're indoor or outdoor I would try and space the lifting and running days out across the full week.

    Depending on what your goal is (better soccer or better lifts) put the emphasis on the one you want and work the other stuff around it. Ideally your weeks should be spaced out so that you have a schedule like the following where H = high intensity, be that weights or soccer, L = lower intensity/recovery P = practice, and O = off.

    Start these wherever you need to in order to manage your lifting and resting around the soccer, or vice versa.
    H - L - O - H - L - O - P

    If your practice is high intensity switch your initial H day to L or O and start the sequence from there. Or do whatever, just make sure you're resting and lifting and running. 8-)

    Edit - yes I know that doesn't quite work out evenly but that's all part and parcel of trying to do 2 different things. Managing your energy expended and recovery time is literally 3/4 of the entire deal.

  • mensch-o-maticmensch-o-matic Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    thanks for the tips dudes

  • SinfoniaOperaSinfoniaOpera Registered User
    edited September 2010
    Ah! I got you!

    Nah, just trust the program will work with proper rest, food, etc...

    I will say if your used to 3x5 style program the volume of the assistance work + lifts can take some time to adjust to and make it seem like your numbers dropped, but once you reach the end of the cycle your body will have adapted to it, and it will all even out. Let it go for a full month before you worry to much.

    Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didnt do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover
  • A duck!A duck! Super Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited September 2010
    Actually, that's the funny thing, this is a hell of a lot less volume than I'm used to. This whole month has been like a deload for me!

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  • Dead LegendDead Legend Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    thanks for the tips dudes

    and i wouldn't really recommend 5 - 10 minutes of squats or lunges unless you're some kind of masochist

    i recommend light dbs for the lunges.

    diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
  • Viscount IslandsViscount Islands [INSERT SoKo HERE] Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Okay so tomorrow I'm gonna go for a run.

    I think I'll try HIIT.

    I want to do with you
    What spring does with the cherry trees.
  • AphostileAphostile Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I went to the gym today.

    I lifted weights.

    That is what I have to contribute.

    Tinychat is dead. Long live Tinychat. D3 BTag: Aphostile#1366 OKC : Steam - ADD ME JERKS : Hello Satan! | Xbox Live : LastAphostile
  • WeaverWeaver send help pirates have meRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Been back at the gym for the first full week of daily workouts since my bike wreck in early July. Taking tomorrow off because the area around my surgery is getting aggravated, but I have lost 5lbs since starting back up again.

    ProfessionalandCommander_zps6c326307.jpg
  • SinfoniaOperaSinfoniaOpera Registered User
    edited September 2010
    A duck! wrote: »
    Actually, that's the funny thing, this is a hell of a lot less volume than I'm used to. This whole month has been like a deload for me!

    Hmmm...


    Interesting, maybe your right! I'll be interested to see what happens if you do jump up to the other workout. Try it out and tell us what happens!

    Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didnt do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover
  • PeenPeen Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    A duck! wrote: »
    Peen wrote: »
    King Nada wrote: »
    Hello new bigman thread. Where does one go to find a good template for a 5/3/1 workout? I've found various articles on what it is, but not what I should be actively doing in the gym every week.

    You mean like the ones here?

    Texas isn't 5-3-1.

    News to me, people I talk to use them interchangeably.

    Duck if you don't stop seeing every stupid thing I say you're going to get a bad impression of me.

  • MeissnerdMeissnerd Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Benched with some big boy plates today! Finally!

    do not ask for whom the snerd tolls
  • GeoMitchGeoMitch Registered User
    edited September 2010
    i would like to request that the title be changed to Bigmanifest Destiny

    Gamertag: GeoMtch Steam Google+
  • InvincibleInvincible Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    First day of using the Onus Wunsler Beginner Program from the Starting Strength wiki. It was so much fun, even if all my lifts are tiny. I just think it's weird to not do a ton of cardio with my lifting.

    3DS Friend Code: 2921-9194-1579

    Let's make record. It will look like:
    Side A.
    1. Tomato Soup
    2. Grilled Cheese
    Side B.
    1. Naptime
  • adytumadytum Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I was going to start a thread and call it "We Love Big Snatches" but I didn't make it home in time.

    Great first leg day back after my 2 week layoff. I had the whole gyms attention when I was doing snatches and overhead squats. I wish everyone would stop staring. Go back to your smith machine shrugs! I don't like you!

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  • YodaTunaYodaTuna Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    So I've been looking for a good 4 day split and I found this:
    http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/shauns-4-day-muscle-building-split-routine.html

    There's a couple other ones on the site as well. Does anyone have any critiques or ideas?

  • adytumadytum Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Too much upper body, not enough legs.

    Shitloads of reps, too. What are your goals?

    etxvv5.jpg
  • A duck!A duck! Super Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited September 2010
    Yeah, if you're doing a 4-day thing you should probably go two upper, two lower, doing both squats and deadlifts. They have both in there, but I can't see you putting out a good deadlift set after doing a bunch of squats.

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  • YodaTunaYodaTuna Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Goal is to bulk up. I definitely agree on the reps though, I was thinking of knocking some of them off when I write it up for myself.

  • AMP'dAMP'd Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    dear tabata: fuck you, I can't walk

    love, AMP'd

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • adytumadytum Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    How experienced are you? A lot of people here swear by starting strength for beginners. If you're more advanced and serious, there are other programs you can use that are tailored to your goals.

    You're better off doing that than taking a poor 4-day split and lowering the reps.

    etxvv5.jpg
  • YodaTunaYodaTuna Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    adytum wrote: »
    How experienced are you? A lot of people here swear by starting strength for beginners. If you're more advanced and serious, there are other programs you can use that are tailored to your goals.

    You're better off doing that than taking a poor 4-day split and lowering the reps.


    I've been lifting for about a month short of a year. I'm trying to move up from a 3 day split currently. I posted this late in the last thread and someone asked for my current workout(which I haven't been doing much of over the past month in favor of cardio)
    Spoiler:

  • BoutrosBoutros Registered User
    edited September 2010
    YodaTuna wrote: »
    So I've been looking for a good 4 day split and I found this:
    http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/shauns-4-day-muscle-building-split-routine.html

    There's a couple other ones on the site as well. Does anyone have any critiques or ideas?

    I disagree with everyone else, that program looks good. If your goals are more size/appearance focused than strength focused that is exactly the sort of program you should do. More than one day a week of legs is not necessary for growth.

    Feel free to switch it up though, like try doing flies before bench to pre-exahust your chest, you'll end up doing about the same weight but you'll feel it in your chest a lot more. I personally don't like decline, I do dips instead. Also every other week or basically whenever I feel like it I start off with deadlifts on back day. Sometimes I'll do drop sets, or do a rest-pause set for my last set of an exercise.

    One thing I would say is that for this kind of program you should keep your rest intervals short, like a minute tops. It takes a while to get used to short rest and higher reps, but it really improves your conditioning.

  • KakodaimonosKakodaimonos Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    If you haven't even been lifting for a year, I'd try to run as far as you can on the beginner programs with linear gains. Get a good base with the big four lifts and some good strength and bulk before going for the bodybuilding-style routines.

    Your legs and posterior chain make up way more muscle mass than your upper body. Work heavy squats and heavy deadlifts in to your routine.

  • [Michael][Michael] Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    My squats have been slowed ever since school started up. I guess it's the walking up and down hills all day that's doing it. Especially MWF...I walk up a giant hill, next class is at the bottom of the hill, next at the top of the giant hill, next at the bottom, and next at the top again. Hopefully I'll get used to it soon.

  • ProprietyPropriety Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Spoiler'd for blargh.
    Spoiler:

    In better news: squats tomorrow yessss god I hate them but they're so good. Will I stop being a wuss and do more than 185? Let's hope so.

    That guy with the ridiculously long scarf at PAX...
    Love Pokemon? Going to PAX East? Challenge the PAX Pokemon League!!!
  • Viscount IslandsViscount Islands [INSERT SoKo HERE] Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    You could've just asked him what he was doing.

    I want to do with you
    What spring does with the cherry trees.
  • ProprietyPropriety Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    You could've just asked him what he was doing.

    I'm afraid the answer would have probably just made me laugh. And then I would have felt like a bigger douche than I was already.

    Also I was kind of hoping one of the other two benches would open up, but one had a gaggle of five or so guys taking turns on it, and the other was taking his time, so I figured it would just be faster to do free weights.

    That guy with the ridiculously long scarf at PAX...
    Love Pokemon? Going to PAX East? Challenge the PAX Pokemon League!!!
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