TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited September 2010
Well yeah, and they've been pretty good about keeping a secret. I don't know if Alpha Flight knew who he was though.
It's in the Ultimate Universe where Peter is seriously going to get messed up the way every other villain knows his identity, and every SHIELD agent does too.
Yeah, everyone knew who Spiderman was pre-OMIT n all of that. The way things are going it seems like they've written themselves back to "well, this would be easy to get out of if we just told this one person who Spidey is" and it'll continue like that. Forever.
I've always considered reading the clone saga (never have) but it's always a mix of "nah, everyone says it's terrible, it'd be a waste of time" and "well I should give it a shot, everyone says it's not as bad as everyone else says". WOULD EVERYONE MAKE UP THEIR MIND ALREADY??
Why are you challenging me during my worst schedule during college ever. Why would you do such a thing.
That would also require a ton of disposable income since the Clone Saga ultimate collections Marvel released are all 35 retail with the last one being 40.
You're probably better off getting the Clone Saga re-telling trade.
wirehead26 on
I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
And this is where I now feel sorry for Quesada, almost as though he's got a child-like innocence about him that we just don't know about.
And because there was no red pigeon in this revised world after making a deal with the devil at Dr. Strange's house that leads to Peter saving May with the power of love. Huey Lewis would be disgusted.
Why are you challenging me during my worst schedule during college ever. Why would you do such a thing.
That would also require a ton of disposable income since the Clone Saga ultimate collections Marvel released are all 35 retail with the last one being 40.
You're probably better off getting the Clone Saga re-telling trade.
i only ended getting the first issue of the "re-telling" cuz i realized that i didnt care, but i was under the assumption that it was more of a "what clone saga should have been" not actually what it was, or even all that close to what actually happened.
And this is where I now feel sorry for Quesada, almost as though he's got a child-like innocence about him that we just don't know about.
And because there was no red pigeon in this revised world after making a deal with the devil at Dr. Strange's house that leads to Peter saving May with the power of love. Huey Lewis would be disgusted.
Perhaps he's suggesting that Peter should either have let the thug plummet to his doom or alternatley beat him to death with his bare hands.
Gaddez on
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited October 2010
Here's the final part of the OMIT interview, and it's done, hopefully it can just end now with the defense of the story and prodding the fans, and maybe in a few years the marriage will be back to usher in an all digital comics launch (it can happen!).Interviewer was disappointing, since there was no question on probably the most BS line in the whole story (MJ "setting Peter free").
One interesting thing about it was that some new poster on the CBR boards actually did their homework and put to rest the notion that Peter and MJ were rushed together to be married, showing that if anything Black Cat showing back up around that time was the odd thing in the book, and that Stan Lee in a 1987 Marvel Age interview said he only got them married in the comic because MJ knew Peter's identity in the comics.
It's a really well thought out post, and fairly objective in regards to the content, just showing that one of the common defenses of breaking up the marriage isn't as clean cut as Quesada has made it out to be.
OK here's what happened. Disney bought Marvel. They didn't like that the character that's possibly the biggest cash cow out of it went an made a deal with Satan. So they made them change it. If you think Disney isn't going to tell Marvel what they can and can't have in their books you're lying to yourself.
OK here's what happened. Disney bought Marvel. They didn't like that the character that's possibly the biggest cash cow out of it went an made a deal with Satan. So they made them change it. If you think Disney isn't going to tell Marvel what they can and can't have in their books you're lying to yourself.
That's silly. I sincerely doubt that any executive is micro-managing the books like that.
OK here's what happened. Disney bought Marvel. They didn't like that the character that's possibly the biggest cash cow out of it went an made a deal with Satan. So they made them change it. If you think Disney isn't going to tell Marvel what they can and can't have in their books you're lying to yourself.
There is absolutely no evidence of this at all.
OMIT in no way undoes the Mephisto deal, just shows that no one knows it was him.
Furu on
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
OK here's what happened. Disney bought Marvel. They didn't like that the character that's possibly the biggest cash cow out of it went an made a deal with Satan. So they made them change it. If you think Disney isn't going to tell Marvel what they can and can't have in their books you're lying to yourself.
There is absolutely no evidence of this at all.
OMIT in no way undoes the Mephisto deal, just shows that no one knows it was him.
Didn't Quesada say it did, due to Grandfather Paradox or something?
OK here's what happened. Disney bought Marvel. They didn't like that the character that's possibly the biggest cash cow out of it went an made a deal with Satan. So they made them change it. If you think Disney isn't going to tell Marvel what they can and can't have in their books you're lying to yourself.
There is absolutely no evidence of this at all.
OMIT in no way undoes the Mephisto deal, just shows that no one knows it was him.
Didn't Quesada say it did, due to Grandfather Paradox or something?
In the sense that the deal with Mephisto was not, as far as anyone in-universe knows, made yes but it still happened and Mephisto still caused it to take place.
OK here's what happened. Disney bought Marvel. They didn't like that the character that's possibly the biggest cash cow out of it went an made a deal with Satan. So they made them change it. If you think Disney isn't going to tell Marvel what they can and can't have in their books you're lying to yourself.
There is absolutely no evidence of this at all.
OMIT in no way undoes the Mephisto deal, just shows that no one knows it was him.
Didn't Quesada say it did, due to Grandfather Paradox or something?
In the sense that the deal with Mephisto was not, as far as anyone in-universe knows, made yes but it still happened and Mephisto still caused it to take place.
Quesada went a bit further than that.
Quesada: one of the important ideas behind "One Moment in Time" is how many of the things that happened to Peter really had nothing to do with Mephisto. He didn’t pull the wedding day out of continuity, he didn’t make Aunt May better, and he didn’t wipe the world’s memory of the unmasking. What he did was drop a domino and guide a pigeon to inadvertently unlock a door that allowed a two-bit thug to escape a police car. From that point on everything that happens happened through Peter’s own actions and decisions, and the majority of those were in his trying his very best to do the right, heroic thing. It was at that point that I realized that what MJ whispered to Mephisto wasn’t Earth shattering, in fact it couldn’t be. It just had to be heroic, heartfelt and keeping with her character. What MJ eventually whispers, while seemingly not all that important, makes her the hero of the story and in effect is Earth shattering in its simplicity.
Kiel Phegley: Okay, wait, how so?
Joe Quesada: Remember the twist I mentioned at the beginning of this conversation, this is what I was talking about. MJ unknowingly beat Mephisto at his own game. By agreeing to MJ’s terms, Mephisto has actually wiped himself from ever having been involved in their lives. In fact, looking at it linearly, those four issues never happened. Along with the wedding, "One More Day" and Mephisto have been wiped out of continuity and Peter and MJ never made that bargain.
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited October 2010
And due to Marvel time travel rules that just branches out into another timeline, meaning in the real Marvel Universe they're still married (this would be my fix to the whole thing, and I would do it in such a terrible manner as OMD was done just to make Brevoort explain it away like it was a good story).
I really like Fallout3, which is apparently a badly done mess if you like fo1 and fo2, which I have never played. I'm really excited for New Vegas, and was super excited when I heard there was going to be a comic book. It is only available with the collector's edition of the game, which includes a bunch of stuff I have no interest in whatsoever and costs a bunch more.
I really like Fallout3, which is apparently a badly done mess if you like fo1 and fo2, which I have never played. I'm really excited for New Vegas, and was super excited when I heard there was going to be a comic book. It is only available with the collector's edition of the game, which includes a bunch of stuff I have no interest in whatsoever and costs a bunch more.
Maybe you'll be able to buy it off ebay or something.
I really like Fallout3, which is apparently a badly done mess if you like fo1 and fo2, which I have never played. I'm really excited for New Vegas, and was super excited when I heard there was going to be a comic book. It is only available with the collector's edition of the game, which includes a bunch of stuff I have no interest in whatsoever and costs a bunch more.
Maybe you'll be able to buy it off ebay or something.
Or assure yourself the comic won't be that great and you won't be missing out on anything that would improve your life even a little bit since you will forget within a few months it even exsists thanks to the distraction that is FO3:NV
Edit: So my inner 8yr old Spidey fan wants to know: Is OMD totally undone and MJ&Pete are married again as if it never happened? Or did OMD never happen but they are still not married somehow?
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited October 2010
OMD is not undone, despite what Quesada wants us to think. It's kind of made worse.
Spider-Man still made a deal with the devil to remove the marriage to save Aunt May, but he rewrote history so that a pigeon opened up the squad door so a criminal escapes and stop Peter from marrying MJ on their wedding day. Quesada argues that because of the one change in the past nothing in the future regarding Mephisto now happens, but from a reader's perspective (and Marvel time travel rules) it still happened.
MJ and Peter lived together for all those times they were married, and during Back in Black Peter saves May's life with the power of love, and the criminal who stopped the wedding turns out to also be the one trying to kill MJ for the Kingpin since his identity is public (because it's so clever hurp durp).
Peter then asks Reed, Tony, and Dr. Strange to fix the world so no one remember who he is, and was going to let MJ forget but at the last second he lets her remember and she's so distraught that she leaves him for a year or two, and they meet to talk about all that's happened and MJ "sets Peter free", allowing him to date other women or some such.
The worst thing about OMIT is that while OMD ruins the marriage, OMIT ruins MJ.
If you're seriously going to sit there and say "a bad story ruins a character' then every character has been ruined.
Furu on
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited October 2010
She was already getting beat up when she appeared post OMD, mainly because the writers didn't know what to do with her, this just makes it worse. MJ is too busy shown as the character that wants to stop the reader from seeing Spider-Man, thanks to her (now) ridiculous argument for not having kids.
It ruins her for the forseeable future since it removes a few of her distinguishing traits, namely her resilience and steadfast love for Peter, from play.
Now she's just his wingman, I guess, which is awkward considering their history.
I kinda wonder if Bendis will ever attempt to tell a OMD/OMIT-type story in UCSM just to show how much better he can do it. And hopefully the memory loss would only last that one arc.
I wonder how long it'll be before MJ starts dating Harry. Seems inevitable, given how characters their age can't remain single, and Marvel isn't going to waste time developing two separate secondary relationships for the both of them.
Plus, it'll solidify MJ's status as Peter's friend.
It ruins her for the forseeable future since it removes a few of her distinguishing traits, namely her resilience and steadfast love for Peter, from play.
Now she's just his wingman, I guess, which is awkward considering their history.
Then maybe they should give her other traits! It wouldn't be the first time considering she started existence as an airheaded party girl.
They haven't yet, though, even though altering her characterization as a result of the satanic, temporal rigamarole would have been both feasible and a sufficient justification for the break-up.
They could do it in the future, but her status as a supporting character they want to phase out as a love interest means that Carlie Cooper is probably going to see more development over the next year or more.
Assuming she's staying. Slott said not all the BND cast would be making it into Big Time.
Furu on
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited October 2010
Looking at the other females in the current Spider-Man lineup, It's not like they've made any inroads over the past 3 years. Michelle's big trait is being a bitch, Norah being a hipster, and Black Cat a mask fetishist (reverted back from actually being in love with Peter). Aunt May probably grew the most but that was contingent on her finally telling Peter what's what due to being made into a grumpy lady. And there's that other girl with glasses but boys never make passes at them.
All that crap about One Moment in Time with pictures of Peter holding MJ in a wedding dress... I thought this was supposed to reset the reset. But things are still the same as during BND?
She seems more like a younger, abrasive, shitty reporter version of lois lane than anything. and racist. but ya, all the girls in OMD are just one dimensional cliches at this point.
Posts
It's in the Ultimate Universe where Peter is seriously going to get messed up the way every other villain knows his identity, and every SHIELD agent does too.
I've always considered reading the clone saga (never have) but it's always a mix of "nah, everyone says it's terrible, it'd be a waste of time" and "well I should give it a shot, everyone says it's not as bad as everyone else says". WOULD EVERYONE MAKE UP THEIR MIND ALREADY??
Steam: Grizz
3DS: 4038-6012-7259
but the thing is, they are scattered throughout a veritible mire of pure, unadulterated shit
it is a mess through and through, and I can't say something like "read everything up to x" because it doesn't work that way.
you have to dig through it for the good parts.
Why are you challenging me during my worst schedule during college ever. Why would you do such a thing.
Steam: Grizz
3DS: 4038-6012-7259
That would also require a ton of disposable income since the Clone Saga ultimate collections Marvel released are all 35 retail with the last one being 40.
You're probably better off getting the Clone Saga re-telling trade.
And this is where I now feel sorry for Quesada, almost as though he's got a child-like innocence about him that we just don't know about.
And because there was no red pigeon in this revised world after making a deal with the devil at Dr. Strange's house that leads to Peter saving May with the power of love. Huey Lewis would be disgusted.
i only ended getting the first issue of the "re-telling" cuz i realized that i didnt care, but i was under the assumption that it was more of a "what clone saga should have been" not actually what it was, or even all that close to what actually happened.
XBL: MightyManotaur
PA: TheSecretSeventh
wait....
Perhaps he's suggesting that Peter should either have let the thug plummet to his doom or alternatley beat him to death with his bare hands.
One interesting thing about it was that some new poster on the CBR boards actually did their homework and put to rest the notion that Peter and MJ were rushed together to be married, showing that if anything Black Cat showing back up around that time was the odd thing in the book, and that Stan Lee in a 1987 Marvel Age interview said he only got them married in the comic because MJ knew Peter's identity in the comics.
It's a really well thought out post, and fairly objective in regards to the content, just showing that one of the common defenses of breaking up the marriage isn't as clean cut as Quesada has made it out to be.
That's silly. I sincerely doubt that any executive is micro-managing the books like that.
There is absolutely no evidence of this at all.
OMIT in no way undoes the Mephisto deal, just shows that no one knows it was him.
Didn't Quesada say it did, due to Grandfather Paradox or something?
In the sense that the deal with Mephisto was not, as far as anyone in-universe knows, made yes but it still happened and Mephisto still caused it to take place.
Quesada went a bit further than that.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Maybe you'll be able to buy it off ebay or something.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Or assure yourself the comic won't be that great and you won't be missing out on anything that would improve your life even a little bit since you will forget within a few months it even exsists thanks to the distraction that is FO3:NV
Edit: So my inner 8yr old Spidey fan wants to know: Is OMD totally undone and MJ&Pete are married again as if it never happened? Or did OMD never happen but they are still not married somehow?
Spider-Man still made a deal with the devil to remove the marriage to save Aunt May, but he rewrote history so that a pigeon opened up the squad door so a criminal escapes and stop Peter from marrying MJ on their wedding day. Quesada argues that because of the one change in the past nothing in the future regarding Mephisto now happens, but from a reader's perspective (and Marvel time travel rules) it still happened.
MJ and Peter lived together for all those times they were married, and during Back in Black Peter saves May's life with the power of love, and the criminal who stopped the wedding turns out to also be the one trying to kill MJ for the Kingpin since his identity is public (because it's so clever hurp durp).
Peter then asks Reed, Tony, and Dr. Strange to fix the world so no one remember who he is, and was going to let MJ forget but at the last second he lets her remember and she's so distraught that she leaves him for a year or two, and they meet to talk about all that's happened and MJ "sets Peter free", allowing him to date other women or some such.
The worst thing about OMIT is that while OMD ruins the marriage, OMIT ruins MJ.
If you're seriously going to sit there and say "a bad story ruins a character' then every character has been ruined.
Now she's just his wingman, I guess, which is awkward considering their history.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
well yes, every character has been ruined. there are no more stories worth telling and no more characters worth reading about.
if some random kid saw this thread, thats the conclusion they would come to.
XBL: MightyManotaur
PA: TheSecretSeventh
wait....
One of the many reasons that I generally don't like this thread!
I do understand its point as a quarantine zone for bitching though (as well as it works anyway)
There is no Ultimate Mephisto yet, only Dormammu, so who knows.
but when we go on and on about OMIT for 6 pages.....
XBL: MightyManotaur
PA: TheSecretSeventh
wait....
Plus, it'll solidify MJ's status as Peter's friend.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Then maybe they should give her other traits! It wouldn't be the first time considering she started existence as an airheaded party girl.
They could do it in the future, but her status as a supporting character they want to phase out as a love interest means that Carlie Cooper is probably going to see more development over the next year or more.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
All that crap about One Moment in Time with pictures of Peter holding MJ in a wedding dress... I thought this was supposed to reset the reset. But things are still the same as during BND?
Magneto is so dreamy.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation