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Remedial women's studies course

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Posts

  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2010
    From what I've read, who talks the most depends on the location of the convo and its topic. The people who feel most comfortable in that setting take over. That's why you see men dominating the conversation in most work situations, but women talking more at home. What's problematic is that no-one really notices when men take over a conversation, but women get a reputation as talking too damn much and needing to shut the hell up. For a long time that underpinned a myth that women talk more than men, full stop - and a lot of people still believe that.

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  • Dread Pirate ArbuthnotDread Pirate Arbuthnot WRIGGLY OMG WRIGGLYRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Will, I'm kind of concerned with your view 'what will feminism do for me?'

    I mean hell, I can walk, why do we need handicapped ramps on buildings? Fuck 'em, I don't want to pay tax dollars.

    Why do we need to spend tax money on public transit? I have a car. People who take the bus are ungrateful turds anyways.

    Why do we need to pay tax money for health care? I don't have cancer.

    Because it's the right thing to do.

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  • mythagomythago Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    The Cat wrote: »
    From what I've read, who talks the most depends on the location of the convo and its topic. The people who feel most comfortable in that setting take over. That's why you see men dominating the conversation in most work situations, but women talking more at home. What's problematic is that no-one really notices when men take over a conversation, but women get a reputation as talking too damn much and needing to shut the hell up. For a long time that underpinned a myth that women talk more than men, full stop - and a lot of people still believe that.

    From what I've read, it's about social status. Men interrupt women more, but bosses also interrupt subordinates more, for example. It's not that men are all thinking that what they have to say is more important than the yammering of the female, but people who perceive they have (and whom others perceive to have) more social power feel more comfortable interrupting, using direct language instead of "I think that...." and so on.

    And what Dread Pirate Arbuthnot said. "What's in it for me?" is a conversation stopper. That question says that the speaker is not interested in giving up his or her goodies just because s/he has an unfair share of them, because it's the right thing to do, and so on, but only if there's some kind of quid pro quo.

    I suppose you could communicate with them by pointing out specific advantages, like "Your daughter won't have to worry so much about being raped" or whatever, but the point of view is just.....flabbergasting is the only term I can think of.

    Now, that's a different question from asking something like "In what way does patriarchy hurt men?" or "What benefits can men realize from feminism?".

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  • Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited October 2010
    Will, I'm kind of concerned with your view 'what will feminism do for me?'

    I mean hell, I can walk, why do we need handicapped ramps on buildings? Fuck 'em, I don't want to pay tax dollars.

    Why do we need to spend tax money on public transit? I have a car. People who take the bus are ungrateful turds anyways.

    Why do we need to pay tax money for health care? I don't have cancer.

    Because it's the right thing to do.

    well, i'm really not advocating the "i've got mine screw you guys" side of this

    i will continue to advocate for people who i feel are victims of an injustice

    and i'll continue to try to give a fair hearing to someone who has a grievance

    but i definitely reserve the right to unashamedly disagree with someone's contention that they've been unfairly and maligned if i can't see how they've been legitimately harmed

    and i'll still regard rude individuals as rude regardless of whether they're hiding under the cloak of outraged feminism, and be less inclined to help these individuals with their concerns.

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  • mythagomythago Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Irond Will wrote: »
    [
    well, i'm really not advocating the "i've got mine screw you guys" side of this

    i will continue to advocate for people who i feel are victims of an injustice

    and i'll continue to try to give a fair hearing to someone who has a grievance

    but i definitely reserve the right to unashamedly disagree with someone's contention that they've been unfairly and maligned if i can't see how they've been legitimately harmed

    and i'll still regard rude individuals as rude regardless of whether they're hiding under the cloak of outraged feminism, and be less inclined to help these individuals with their concerns.

    "What's in it for me" != "I can't see how you've been harmed, and I disagree with your point."

    I like the "outraged feminism" though. I wouldn't expect you to descend into the hairy-legged dyke end of the stereotype, but you know, those womens, so angry! What's up with that, eh? It's almost like they think they're entitled to be upset about something.

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  • Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited October 2010
    mythago wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    [
    well, i'm really not advocating the "i've got mine screw you guys" side of this

    i will continue to advocate for people who i feel are victims of an injustice

    and i'll continue to try to give a fair hearing to someone who has a grievance

    but i definitely reserve the right to unashamedly disagree with someone's contention that they've been unfairly and maligned if i can't see how they've been legitimately harmed

    and i'll still regard rude individuals as rude regardless of whether they're hiding under the cloak of outraged feminism, and be less inclined to help these individuals with their concerns.

    "What's in it for me" != "I can't see how you've been harmed, and I disagree with your point."

    I like the "outraged feminism" though. I wouldn't expect you to descend into the hairy-legged dyke end of the stereotype, but you know, those womens, so angry! What's up with that, eh? It's almost like they think they're entitled to be upset about something.

    we couldn't have anyone characterize some cultures of feminism negatively, now could we?

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  • mythagomythago Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Irond Will wrote: »
    mythago wrote: »

    I like the "outraged feminism" though. I wouldn't expect you to descend into the hairy-legged dyke end of the stereotype, but you know, those womens, so angry! What's up with that, eh? It's almost like they think they're entitled to be upset about something.

    we couldn't have anyone characterize some cultures of feminism negatively, now could we?

    What, are you saying there's something wrong with referring to certain cultures of black anti-racist activism as "uppity"?

    Seriously, though, if all you wanted was to be told that you don't need to change a thing and them girls is just crazy, I would have appreciated it if you'd just said so from the get go. It's very tedious to see, over and over, the same steps of the dance: what's in it for me, it's your job to explain all this, gosh a lot of feminism/LGBT activism/antiracism (or whatever group is being discussed) is so ANGRY and saying bad things about me and why should I listen to them? Sorry, you weren't nice enough, you lost me.

    If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and craps in your pool like a duck, it's possible that it was really a well-meaning chicken that's been unfairly judged, but my money's on duck.

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  • Dread Pirate ArbuthnotDread Pirate Arbuthnot WRIGGLY OMG WRIGGLYRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Will, I'm kind of concerned with your view 'what will feminism do for me?'

    I mean hell, I can walk, why do we need handicapped ramps on buildings? Fuck 'em, I don't want to pay tax dollars.

    Why do we need to spend tax money on public transit? I have a car. People who take the bus are ungrateful turds anyways.

    Why do we need to pay tax money for health care? I don't have cancer.

    Because it's the right thing to do.

    well, i'm really not advocating the "i've got mine screw you guys" side of this

    i will continue to advocate for people who i feel are victims of an injustice

    and i'll continue to try to give a fair hearing to someone who has a grievance

    but i definitely reserve the right to unashamedly disagree with someone's contention that they've been unfairly and maligned if i can't see how they've been legitimately harmed

    and i'll still regard rude individuals as rude regardless of whether they're hiding under the cloak of outraged feminism, and be less inclined to help these individuals with their concerns.

    I disagree that feminism necessarily needs to be polite. Look at Nelly McClung - when she started activism women were things. She had to fight to make women legally recognized as people. She sure as hell pissed some people off.

    There are things that need to change, and we need to be loud about it. If we meekly go "Excuse me, could you please... oh? You're not okay with recognizing women as people? Okay, well... I'll be back later", nothing will be done.

    I do agree that some feminist communities are insular and hostile, but they put up with so much shit. Melissa McEwan, main author of Shakesville, has gotten death threats and people showing up at her door. Not to mention the constant cascade of trolls that love to crow rape jokes to piss the easy targets off.

    But to claim that something like Jezebel is hostile to men is just being a silly sausage, I think, because they're very feminism-lite, and I've seen lots of male commentators. You just have to be aware of the culture and more sensitive in how you compose yourself.

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  • Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited October 2010
    mythago wrote: »
    What, are you saying there's something wrong with referring to certain cultures of black anti-racist activism as "uppity"?

    Seriously, though, if all you wanted was to be told that you don't need to change a thing and them girls is just crazy, I would have appreciated it if you'd just said so from the get go. It's very tedious to see, over and over, the same steps of the dance: what's in it for me, it's your job to explain all this, gosh a lot of feminism/LGBT activism/antiracism (or whatever group is being discussed) is so ANGRY and saying bad things about me and why should I listen to them? Sorry, you weren't nice enough, you lost me.

    If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and craps in your pool like a duck, it's possible that it was really a well-meaning chicken that's been unfairly judged, but my money's on duck.

    you have spent quite a few of your posts insisting on attributing bad faith to me, and here we have another.

    i'd prefer you stop that. it's rude. and it reinforces negative stereotypes.

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  • PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    In general its not very useful to find a small subset of a group that exemplifies their worst membership and base your entire conversation on that point.

    Not all Christians are book burning psychopaths, not all vegetarians are anal-retentive elitists, not all bicyclists think they own the road, etc. etc.

    Yes there are some feminists who are shitty just as there are some <member of group> who are shitty in any scenario.

    This keeps coming up, the "outraged feminist." I don't see you quoting anybody Will, I don't see you posting a specific response to a specific statement that you find particularly offensive. I just keep seeing this mythical "outraged feminist" that is keeping you from the argument.

    Maybe she's out there. Maybe there's some super angry feminist who I accidentally put on ignore so hard my browser doesn't even load her username, maybe she's out there making posts in some thread I'm not reading. But I'm not really seeing it here and you're certainly not quoting or illustrating these angry feminist arguments you keep railing against so hard.

    If you want to take issue with a particular statement, great, do it. But this nonsense "oh man these angry feminists keepin' me down" is just ridiculous.

    Two goats enter, one car leaves
  • Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited October 2010
    Irond Will wrote: »
    well, i'm really not advocating the "i've got mine screw you guys" side of this

    i will continue to advocate for people who i feel are victims of an injustice

    and i'll continue to try to give a fair hearing to someone who has a grievance

    but i definitely reserve the right to unashamedly disagree with someone's contention that they've been unfairly and maligned if i can't see how they've been legitimately harmed

    and i'll still regard rude individuals as rude regardless of whether they're hiding under the cloak of outraged feminism, and be less inclined to help these individuals with their concerns.

    I disagree that feminism necessarily needs to be polite. Look at Nelly McClung - when she started activism women were things. She had to fight to make women legally recognized as people. She sure as hell pissed some people off.

    There are things that need to change, and we need to be loud about it. If we meekly go "Excuse me, could you please... oh? You're not okay with recognizing women as people? Okay, well... I'll be back later", nothing will be done.

    I do agree that some feminist communities are insular and hostile, but they put up with so much shit. Melissa McEwan, main author of Shakesville, has gotten death threats and people showing up at her door. Not to mention the constant cascade of trolls that love to crow rape jokes to piss the easy targets off.

    But to claim that something like Jezebel is hostile to men is just being a silly sausage, I think, because they're very feminism-lite, and I've seen lots of male commentators. You just have to be aware of the culture and more sensitive in how you compose yourself.

    well, if some people feel that they are going to need to be rude, abrasive or hostile to make their point or further their goals, then they need to realize that such actions run the risk of alienating people who otherwise might have been supportive of or sympathetic to their cause.

    like me

    (i'm also not supportive of trolls who think that making rape jokes are funny)

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  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    The Cat wrote: »
    What's problematic is that no-one really notices when men take over a conversation, but women get a reputation as talking too damn much and needing to shut the hell up. For a long time that underpinned a myth that women talk more than men, full stop - and a lot of people still believe that.

    I doubt that my experience is representative, but that hasn't been the case in my life at all, and I know quite a few men who have a reputation as incessant talkers. Sometimes, sometimes I'm one of them.

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  • CasedOutCasedOut Registered User
    edited October 2010
    I just have a quick question. I may be totally wrong in this but, is it ever really possible to have 100% equality, since men and women are actually somewhat different? I mean they have fundamental natural differences, so how can there ever truly be 100% equality in all areas?

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  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    CasedOut wrote: »
    I just have a quick question. I may be totally wrong in this but, is it ever really possible to have 100% equality, since men and women are actually somewhat different? I mean they have fundamental natural differences, so how can there ever truly be 100% equality in all areas?

    Define equality.

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  • AtomikaAtomika Merry Christmas your arse I pray God it's our lastRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    The Cat wrote: »
    For a long time that underpinned a myth that women talk more than men, full stop - and a lot of people still believe that.

    I think it's not so much that women talk more than men, but how the conversations take shape.

    I often feel that my wife chooses to talk to me at strange times, begging my complete engagement on shit I couldn't care less about. I don't think she talks any more than I do, it's just the timing and the content.

    Like, we'll be watching a TV show that we both enjoy, and right in the middle she'll start talking about how she found some great coupons for Diet Coke. Then she'll notice I'm not paying any attention whatsoever, and she'll pause the DVR so we can have an engaged discussion.

    At that point, I either have to apologize and feign interest, or start a fight I desperately don't want to have, which starts with the phrase, "Why the fuck are you talking about this? And why right now?"


    Personally I find it a passive kind of selfishness, and I'm sure I engage in it just as much, but I like to think I generally pick the times better to bring up whatever passing interest is in my head.

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck NONSTOP INFINITE CLIMAX POSTING you must go on i cant go on ill go onRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Atomic doesn't "Excuse me, but I'm trying to watch the show" work? :o

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  • AtomikaAtomika Merry Christmas your arse I pray God it's our lastRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Atomic doesn't "Excuse me, but I'm trying to watch the show" work? :o

    We have a DVR. That excuse is off the table.

    Plus, like I said, it's usually something she likes just as much as I do, or more. We don't differ too much on tastes.

  • bezerk bobbezerk bob Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Atomic doesn't "Excuse me, but I'm trying to watch the show" work? :o

    We have a DVR. That excuse is off the table.

    Plus, like I said, it's usually something she likes just as much as I do, or more. We don't differ too much on tastes.

    Asking someone to stop what they are watching and have an unrelated conversation seems like a pretty rude thing to do.

    You can only drink 30 or 40 glasses of beer a day, no matter how rich you are. -- Colonel Adolphus Busch
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    bezerk bob wrote: »
    Atomic doesn't "Excuse me, but I'm trying to watch the show" work? :o

    We have a DVR. That excuse is off the table.

    Plus, like I said, it's usually something she likes just as much as I do, or more. We don't differ too much on tastes.

    Asking someone to stop what they are watching and have an unrelated conversation seems like a pretty rude thing to do.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHa8gZERCsc

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  • CasedOutCasedOut Registered User
    edited October 2010
    CasedOut wrote: »
    I just have a quick question. I may be totally wrong in this but, is it ever really possible to have 100% equality, since men and women are actually somewhat different? I mean they have fundamental natural differences, so how can there ever truly be 100% equality in all areas?

    Define equality.

    good question, I have no idea

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  • AtomikaAtomika Merry Christmas your arse I pray God it's our lastRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    bezerk bob wrote: »
    Atomic doesn't "Excuse me, but I'm trying to watch the show" work? :o

    We have a DVR. That excuse is off the table.

    Plus, like I said, it's usually something she likes just as much as I do, or more. We don't differ too much on tastes.

    Asking someone to stop what they are watching and have an unrelated conversation seems like a pretty rude thing to do.

    I know, right? But every married guy I know goes through the same thing.


    The worst, though, is picking somewhere to go eat. Because I never care, yet I'm constantly asked to pick where to go, only to be routinely shot down.

    "You wanna go eat?"

    "Uh, sure. Sounds good."

    "Where to?"

    "No idea. Whatever."

    "No, pick somewhere."

    "Cheeseburgers?"

    "No, I had that for lunch at work yesterday."

    "Italian?"

    "Too greasy and heavy."

    "Fuck, I don't care. Where ever you want."

    "Don't get mad!"


    I go from "guy minding his own business" to "guy having an argument with his wife" in 2 seconds, all because she's wishy-washy on something she brought up in the first place.

  • Apothe0sisApothe0sis Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    emnmnme wrote: »
    bezerk bob wrote: »
    Atomic doesn't "Excuse me, but I'm trying to watch the show" work? :o

    We have a DVR. That excuse is off the table.

    Plus, like I said, it's usually something she likes just as much as I do, or more. We don't differ too much on tastes.

    Asking someone to stop what they are watching and have an unrelated conversation seems like a pretty rude thing to do.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHa8gZERCsc

    That's...

    Horrifying.

    And what are they saying here? The guy is clueless? The girl is clueless? It's a show almost definitely aimed at women, so the latter seems unlikely. This is wont to drive me nuts.

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar QA Tester -> Game Producer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited October 2010

    I know, right? But every married guy I know goes through the same thing.


    The worst, though, is picking somewhere to go eat. Because I never care, yet I'm constantly asked to pick where to go, only to be routinely shot down.

    "You wanna go eat?"
    "Uh, sure. Sounds good."
    "Where to?"
    "No idea. Whatever."
    "No, pick somewhere."
    "Cheeseburgers?"
    "No, I had that for lunch at work yesterday."
    "Italian?"
    "Too greasy and heavy."
    "Fuck, I don't care. Where ever you want."
    "Don't get mad!"

    I go from "guy minding his own business" to "guy having an argument with his wife" in 2 seconds, all because she's wishy-washy on something she brought up in the first place.

    This is a failure to communicate and to understand your partner.

    The food itself is not the important part. Going out to do a comforting thing that doesn't result in dishes is the point. It's fairly normal for someone to forget to consider the details when the details don't really matter. Also there are places that serve more than one kind of food, the obvious solution is to go to one of those.

    Also, "Fuck, I don't care" is the worst thing to say in a relationship to someone whose sole focus for the evening is to spend time with you.

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  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck NONSTOP INFINITE CLIMAX POSTING you must go on i cant go on ill go onRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I know, right? But every married guy I know goes through the same thing.

    I dunno, some couples I know just get on with each other.

    But being interrupted while watching something like that for a triviality sounds enraging :<

    You could try the whole really sincere "I love you darling but I'd prefer it if you didn't interrupt my enjoyment of the show by trying to get me to talk unless it's important".

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  • Apothe0sisApothe0sis Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Refuse to let her touch the DVR remote, and enforce a policy of "No talking while show is running!"

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  • ElitistbElitistb Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    The food itself is not the important part. Going out to do a comforting thing that doesn't result in dishes is the point. It's fairly normal for someone to forget to consider the details when the details don't really matter. Also there are places that serve more than one kind of food, the obvious solution is to go to one of those.
    Understood. However she is being really passive aggressive in a bad way. She should ask if he wants to go eat, and then when he says where, she should stop, say give me a couple minutes and I'll suggest somewhere, and then do that.

    To say "I want to spend time with you and I'm going to make you pick but shoot down your suggestions without actually saying what I really want to do" is playing a psych game, and not really a good thing to do in a relationship.

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  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Elitistb wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    The food itself is not the important part. Going out to do a comforting thing that doesn't result in dishes is the point. It's fairly normal for someone to forget to consider the details when the details don't really matter. Also there are places that serve more than one kind of food, the obvious solution is to go to one of those.
    Understood. However she is being really passive aggressive in a bad way. She should ask if he wants to go eat, and then when he says where, she should stop, say give me a couple minutes and I'll suggest somewhere, and then do that.

    To say "I want to spend time with you and I'm going to make you pick but shoot down your suggestions without actually saying what I really want to do" is playing a psych game, and not really a good thing to do in a relationship.

    Regardless, it's absurd to continue a maddening routine again and again as it wears on both persons' nerves more and more.

    Switch up the routine somehow, like by having one person create a list of possibilities and the other person make the final decision from that list after first hearing each suggestion. Or do something else.

    Just don't continue having the same argument and complaining about how the other person always behaves when you've also fallen into a pattern of harmful behavior.

  • IncenjucarIncenjucar QA Tester -> Game Producer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Elitistb wrote: »
    Understood. However she is being really passive aggressive in a bad way. She should ask if he wants to go eat, and then when he says where, she should stop, say give me a couple minutes and I'll suggest somewhere, and then do that.

    To say "I want to spend time with you and I'm going to make you pick but shoot down your suggestions without actually saying what I really want to do" is playing a psych game, and not really a good thing to do in a relationship.

    It's actually that she's being PASSIVE, most likely because she was taught to be so due to historical dangers of being direct. She's not being aggressive, unless you consider wanting to spend time with your spouse to be a form of attack. This is one of those ways that the history of sexism and gender roles harm everyone; there are a lot of families where a man has to have a damned good reason to spend time with his family, such as "food" or "sex." It can't just be for its own sake.

    That she's not really after food as a primary focus - and that she's possibly expecting to be TOLD rather than asked (the communication gap cuts both ways) - may be causing her to have not actually thought about food itself at any point.

    Mind you, I could be wrong, but I've observed this with my family and others' since I was old enough to form memories.

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  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Incenjucar wrote: »

    I know, right? But every married guy I know goes through the same thing.


    The worst, though, is picking somewhere to go eat. Because I never care, yet I'm constantly asked to pick where to go, only to be routinely shot down.

    "You wanna go eat?"
    "Uh, sure. Sounds good."
    "Where to?"
    "No idea. Whatever."
    "No, pick somewhere."
    "Cheeseburgers?"
    "No, I had that for lunch at work yesterday."
    "Italian?"
    "Too greasy and heavy."
    "Fuck, I don't care. Where ever you want."
    "Don't get mad!"

    I go from "guy minding his own business" to "guy having an argument with his wife" in 2 seconds, all because she's wishy-washy on something she brought up in the first place.

    This is a failure to communicate and to understand your partner.

    The food itself is not the important part. Going out to do a comforting thing that doesn't result in dishes is the point. It's fairly normal for someone to forget to consider the details when the details don't really matter. Also there are places that serve more than one kind of food, the obvious solution is to go to one of those.

    Also, "Fuck, I don't care" is the worst thing to say in a relationship to someone whose sole focus for the evening is to spend time with you.

    Frankly, when somebody starts doing that, that's when I pull out my Man Card and say "I want sushi. We're going to Takara." If I offer two suggestions and they're shot down, the third suggestion isn't a suggestion, it's an inarguable factual statement about what the immediate future holds.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar QA Tester -> Game Producer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Your timing is perfect as always, Feral. <3

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  • Cedar BrownCedar Brown Registered User
    edited October 2010
    Feral wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »

    I know, right? But every married guy I know goes through the same thing.


    The worst, though, is picking somewhere to go eat. Because I never care, yet I'm constantly asked to pick where to go, only to be routinely shot down.

    "You wanna go eat?"
    "Uh, sure. Sounds good."
    "Where to?"
    "No idea. Whatever."
    "No, pick somewhere."
    "Cheeseburgers?"
    "No, I had that for lunch at work yesterday."
    "Italian?"
    "Too greasy and heavy."
    "Fuck, I don't care. Where ever you want."
    "Don't get mad!"

    I go from "guy minding his own business" to "guy having an argument with his wife" in 2 seconds, all because she's wishy-washy on something she brought up in the first place.

    This is a failure to communicate and to understand your partner.

    The food itself is not the important part. Going out to do a comforting thing that doesn't result in dishes is the point. It's fairly normal for someone to forget to consider the details when the details don't really matter. Also there are places that serve more than one kind of food, the obvious solution is to go to one of those.

    Also, "Fuck, I don't care" is the worst thing to say in a relationship to someone whose sole focus for the evening is to spend time with you.

    Frankly, when somebody starts doing that, that's when I pull out my Man Card and say "I want sushi. We're going to Takara." If I offer two suggestions and they're shot down, the third suggestion isn't a suggestion, it's an inarguable factual statement about what the immediate future holds.

    I don't know if you're joking or not, but that's what I'd do.

    Otherwise, shrinking violet better buck the fuck up and suggest a place.

  • Dread Pirate ArbuthnotDread Pirate Arbuthnot WRIGGLY OMG WRIGGLYRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I feel like it's pretty silly when people are talking about societal biases etc. and someone goes "Well, women are like that, my [wife, sister, ex, female friend] does this!!"

    And it's pretty silly I think to encapsulate one half of the human race into the weird quirk your lady example has.

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  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I'm not joking at all. I'm being a little extra snarky about it, but I'm not joking.

    Honestly, I've found that in general when somebody has adequately demonstrated that they do not have a particular preference on something like that, they appreciate having somebody take charge. It's not entirely a female thing, men are like that, too, although I have noticed that even the most enlightened progressive woman likes it when her partner sometimes just straight-up takes charge like a caveman... as long as you're being considerate as to when you're doing that and in what ways.

    And being poly *cough* sometimes negotiating a place to go to dinner requires some goddamn parliamentary procedure, so I'm used to saying "fuck this, we're going here" and then everybody is like "Okay! Let's go eat."

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar QA Tester -> Game Producer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Yeah, it's ultimately just a people thing. Like all that hemming and hawing about where to eat for PAX

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  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Stereotypically gendered behavior okay sometimes as long as you have the freedom to step in and out of them when appropriate and the awareness of knowing when it is appropriate.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    bezerk bob wrote: »
    Atomic doesn't "Excuse me, but I'm trying to watch the show" work? :o

    We have a DVR. That excuse is off the table.

    Plus, like I said, it's usually something she likes just as much as I do, or more. We don't differ too much on tastes.

    Asking someone to stop what they are watching and have an unrelated conversation seems like a pretty rude thing to do.

    I know, right? But every married guy I know goes through the same thing.


    The worst, though, is picking somewhere to go eat. Because I never care, yet I'm constantly asked to pick where to go, only to be routinely shot down.

    "You wanna go eat?"

    "Uh, sure. Sounds good."

    "Where to?"

    "No idea. Whatever."

    "No, pick somewhere."

    "Cheeseburgers?"

    "No, I had that for lunch at work yesterday."

    "Italian?"

    "Too greasy and heavy."

    "Fuck, I don't care. Where ever you want."

    "Don't get mad!"


    I go from "guy minding his own business" to "guy having an argument with his wife" in 2 seconds, all because she's wishy-washy on something she brought up in the first place.

    This is one of the universal conversations in life.

  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2010
    Irond Will wrote: »
    mythago wrote: »
    What, are you saying there's something wrong with referring to certain cultures of black anti-racist activism as "uppity"?

    Seriously, though, if all you wanted was to be told that you don't need to change a thing and them girls is just crazy, I would have appreciated it if you'd just said so from the get go. It's very tedious to see, over and over, the same steps of the dance: what's in it for me, it's your job to explain all this, gosh a lot of feminism/LGBT activism/antiracism (or whatever group is being discussed) is so ANGRY and saying bad things about me and why should I listen to them? Sorry, you weren't nice enough, you lost me.

    If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and craps in your pool like a duck, it's possible that it was really a well-meaning chicken that's been unfairly judged, but my money's on duck.

    you have spent quite a few of your posts insisting on attributing bad faith to me, and here we have another.

    i'd prefer you stop that. it's rude. and it reinforces negative stereotypes.

    Will, you can't possibly not recognise how insanely passive-aggressive you get in these threads. Maybe what you don't realise is how much that looks like you hitting 5-in-a-row on the anti-feminist bingo card, despite you occasionally taking a break to insist that you're totally for equality and kittens and all that good stuff. You're asking other people to consider how they come across, maybe you could do the same?

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  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2010
    Atomic doesn't "Excuse me, but I'm trying to watch the show" work? :o

    We have a DVR. That excuse is off the table.

    Plus, like I said, it's usually something she likes just as much as I do, or more. We don't differ too much on tastes.

    you sure about that? because i only start talking during a tv show when i'm bored as shit.

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  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2010
    Apothe0sis wrote: »
    Refuse to let her touch the DVR remote, and enforce a policy of "No talking while show is running!"

    She's his partner, not his kid. Or his dog. Jesus, dude.

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  • AtomikaAtomika Merry Christmas your arse I pray God it's our lastRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Feral wrote: »
    Honestly, I've found that in general when somebody has adequately demonstrated that they do not have a particular preference on something like that, they appreciate having somebody take charge. It's not entirely a female thing, men are like that, too, although I have noticed that even the most enlightened progressive woman likes it when her partner sometimes just straight-up takes charge like a caveman... as long as you're being considerate as to when you're doing that and in what ways.

    I think this is closest out of what people have been offering. Her offer to go eat is clearly just an expression of her desire to engage in a mutual activity, but she rarely takes it past that. Maybe my picking of the place to eat is her way of assuring the activity is mutual?

    It's certainly not a tendency on her part to be passive. My wife is assertive to a fault, and comes close to embarrassing me sometimes with it, but only because I was raised in a culture of Southern hospitality (where you're polite to people's face, then trash them behind their back) and she's from London/New York (where you let people know when they're fucking up).

    The Cat wrote: »
    Atomic doesn't "Excuse me, but I'm trying to watch the show" work? :o

    We have a DVR. That excuse is off the table.

    Plus, like I said, it's usually something she likes just as much as I do, or more. We don't differ too much on tastes.

    you sure about that? because i only start talking during a tv show when i'm bored as shit.

    In thinking more upon it, it generally occurs when we get home from work. We work long hours, so on days we have to get to bed early for the next day she tries to squeeze in a normal post-work domestic routine into an hour and a half.

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