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The degradation of online discourse: What can we do about it?

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Posts

  • EddyEddy pale Gengars I loved beside Cerulean CaveRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Loklar wrote: »
    I like humanities ugliness.

    What a wonderful way of stating it. Something very poetic in your response.

  • CasedOutCasedOut Registered User
    edited October 2010
    Spoiler:

    I think if a 5 year old hears "that's gay" in the lame context, and grows up continuing to use it, when he meets his first gay person in his teenage years he's going to associate them with being lame. That's how association works.

    Nah, not with how many homonyms we have in the english language, and how many different words have 100% different meanings in different contexts.

    Not to mention "gay" didnt originally mean "homosexual" in the first place. I mean who really associates gay with happy anymore like no one.

    Thats gay is here to stay whether people like it or not, and I think it will eventually be accepted and not have any negative connotation towards homosexuals, who may even eventually stop calling themselves gay. I don't even get why they are called gay in the first place tbh.

    452773-1.png
  • taoist drunktaoist drunk Registered User
    edited October 2010
    CasedOut wrote: »
    Spoiler:

    I think if a 5 year old hears "that's gay" in the lame context, and grows up continuing to use it, when he meets his first gay person in his teenage years he's going to associate them with being lame. That's how association works.

    Nah, not with how many homonyms we have in the english language, and how many different words have 100% different meanings in different contexts.

    Not to mention "gay" didnt originally mean "homosexual" in the first place. I mean who really associates gay with happy anymore like no one.

    Thats gay is here to stay whether people like it or not, and I think it will eventually be accepted and not have any negative connotation towards homosexuals, who may even eventually stop calling themselves gay. I don't even get why they are called gay in the first place tbh.

    I don't know, man. No one I know says "that's gay" because they know that's offensive, and we're more invested in not perpetuating the association of homosexuality with something pathetic or unfortunate than we are in one particular term.

    Also with regard to "that's gay" and the last part of the OP, I feel like you can't "take back" anything unless you're a member of the group that's being referred to (when a black person refers to "my [n-word]" or a woman who has decided to reclaim the word "cunt" or "bitch" and use it in a positive context, as in for example saying reverently "she is one bad bitch" it's really different from when a white person or a man uses the n-word or "cunt" or "bitch"). Context matters, and the speaker matters. Even if you're not consciously thinking "black people are terrible" when you say the n-word, it's not okay.

  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Loklar wrote: »
    Spoiler:

    I think if a 5 year old hears "that's gay" in the lame context, and grows up continuing to use it, when he meets his first gay person in his teenage years he's going to associate them with being lame. That's how association works.

    I guess he'll have some growing up to do.

    I like that!

    Yeah, fuck that kid. All being generally reinforced for awful behavior over a lifetime. That goddamn hypothetical layabout. He deserves to make other people feel bad all the time. That'll learn him! When he's older and wiser, looking back on the life he lead and feeling bad about the times he hurt people oh boy oh boy will Hypothetical Kid With Homophobic Parents or Something feel so awful.

    And then who's on top? You and me, buddy.

  • DrukDruk Registered User
    edited October 2010
    I feel like you can't "take back" anything unless you're a member of the group that's being referred to (when a black person refers to "my [n-word]" or a woman who has decided to reclaim the word "cunt" or "bitch" and use it in a positive context, as in for example saying reverently "she is one bad bitch" it's really different from when a white person or a man uses the n-word or "cunt" or "bitch"). Context matters, and the speaker matters. Even if you're not consciously thinking "black people are terrible" when you say the n-word, it's not okay.

    But the "wrong speaker" doesn't give up the right to be free from physical violence for disagreeing with/ignoring your sentiment, correct?

    And why exactly is it impossible for someone outside the group to use a term in a positive manner? Like, I assume Eminem can get away with the line Jackie Chan just tried.

  • taoist drunktaoist drunk Registered User
    edited October 2010
    Druk wrote: »
    I feel like you can't "take back" anything unless you're a member of the group that's being referred to (when a black person refers to "my [n-word]" or a woman who has decided to reclaim the word "cunt" or "bitch" and use it in a positive context, as in for example saying reverently "she is one bad bitch" it's really different from when a white person or a man uses the n-word or "cunt" or "bitch"). Context matters, and the speaker matters. Even if you're not consciously thinking "black people are terrible" when you say the n-word, it's not okay.

    But the "wrong speaker" doesn't give up the right to be free from physical violence for disagreeing with/ignoring your sentiment, correct?

    And why exactly is it impossible for someone outside the group to use a term in a positive manner? Like, I assume Eminem can get away with the line Jackie Chan just tried.

    What? Of course I am not advocating violence against people who are offensive and disrespectful. That doesn't mean they're not obnoxious.

    As for your other question, you just can't. It's rude at best.

    And Eminem himself has said that it's not okay for him as a white rapper to use the N word, so he doesn't. There are old tapes of him from when he was a teenager freestyling, and he used the N word then. He no longer does.

  • CasedOutCasedOut Registered User
    edited October 2010
    CasedOut wrote: »
    Spoiler:

    I think if a 5 year old hears "that's gay" in the lame context, and grows up continuing to use it, when he meets his first gay person in his teenage years he's going to associate them with being lame. That's how association works.

    Nah, not with how many homonyms we have in the english language, and how many different words have 100% different meanings in different contexts.

    Not to mention "gay" didnt originally mean "homosexual" in the first place. I mean who really associates gay with happy anymore like no one.

    Thats gay is here to stay whether people like it or not, and I think it will eventually be accepted and not have any negative connotation towards homosexuals, who may even eventually stop calling themselves gay. I don't even get why they are called gay in the first place tbh.

    I don't know, man. No one I know says "that's gay" because they know that's offensive, and we're more invested in not perpetuating the association of homosexuality with something pathetic or unfortunate than we are in one particular term.

    Also with regard to "that's gay" and the last part of the OP, I feel like you can't "take back" anything unless you're a member of the group that's being referred to (when a black person refers to "my [n-word]" or a woman who has decided to reclaim the word "cunt" or "bitch" and use it in a positive context, as in for example saying reverently "she is one bad bitch" it's really different from when a white person or a man uses the n-word or "cunt" or "bitch"). Context matters, and the speaker matters. Even if you're not consciously thinking "black people are terrible" when you say the n-word, it's not okay.

    You know I am beginning to think "thats gay" is a largely west coast thing, because people say it all the time in california. I even know some gay people that say it.

    452773-1.png
  • ShivahnShivahn Eastern coastal temptressRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    CasedOut wrote: »
    You know I am beginning to think "thats gay" is a largely west coast thing, because people say it all the time in california. I even know some gay people that say it.

    My roommate calls the pets "fucking faggots."

    As in, "Who's a fucking faggot?"

    He's nice about it, in terms of voice. He's just doing that thing people do where they're really nice to dogs while telling them mean things. He loves that dog.

    But it gets sort of disturbing and makes me feel unsafe half the time. Like, what if he notices that I'm wearing a women's shirt or whatever? Is he just kidding? Or should I be wary?

    Which is actually another reason you should probably avoid using slurs like that. The atmosphere becomes toxic and minorities who know they can't stand up for themselves are forced into either accepting that they're everyone's punching bags or quitting the game/chat/whatever.

    That's a general "you" in that last paragraph.

  • LoklarLoklar Registered User
    edited October 2010
    Loklar wrote: »
    Spoiler:

    I think if a 5 year old hears "that's gay" in the lame context, and grows up continuing to use it, when he meets his first gay person in his teenage years he's going to associate them with being lame. That's how association works.

    I guess he'll have some growing up to do.

    I like that!

    Yeah, fuck that kid. All being generally reinforced for awful behavior over a lifetime. That goddamn hypothetical layabout. He deserves to make other people feel bad all the time. That'll learn him! When he's older and wiser, looking back on the life he lead and feeling bad about the times he hurt people oh boy oh boy will Hypothetical Kid With Homophobic Parents or Something feel so awful.

    And then who's on top? You and me, buddy.

    Enjoy policing the internet. I think you can download a badge somewhere.

    @bolded: If his parents are that terrible then yea, eventually he's going to run into a time at work or wherever where he's going to made to feel 3 inches tall for being a bigot. This is a good thing.

  • QuidQuid The Fifth Horseman Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Or he and a bunch of other fucksticks will reinforce each other's behavior and make someone's life a living Hell.

    PSN: allenquid
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Loklar wrote: »
    Loklar wrote: »
    Spoiler:

    I think if a 5 year old hears "that's gay" in the lame context, and grows up continuing to use it, when he meets his first gay person in his teenage years he's going to associate them with being lame. That's how association works.

    I guess he'll have some growing up to do.

    I like that!

    Yeah, fuck that kid. All being generally reinforced for awful behavior over a lifetime. That goddamn hypothetical layabout. He deserves to make other people feel bad all the time. That'll learn him! When he's older and wiser, looking back on the life he lead and feeling bad about the times he hurt people oh boy oh boy will Hypothetical Kid With Homophobic Parents or Something feel so awful.

    And then who's on top? You and me, buddy.

    Enjoy policing the internet. I think you can download a badge somewhere.

    @bolded: If his parents are that terrible then yea, eventually he's going to run into a time at work or wherever where he's going to made to feel 3 inches tall for being a bigot. This is a good thing.

    So wait a minute.

    It's appropriate and proper that this hypothetical person get called out for being a homophobe, just, god forbid it happen via the medium of an online game? Because after all if it were expected people stand up to this shit while playing halo, you'd wind up feeling like it was expected of you.

    gkcmatch_zps97480250.jpg
    remember pluto? Once a planet but now a pseudo
    funny how information changes the facts that you know
  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Quid wrote: »
    Or he and a bunch of other fucksticks will reinforce each other's behavior and make someone's life a living Hell.
    Look the point is that it's important that hypothetical kid be shamed, eventually. If he doesn't grow up being a jerk, he can't be shamed!

    That's the appropriate process. Grow up being told that it's right to hurt other people, hurt other people, and eventually maybe you'll get hurt badly in return after the damage has already been done. That's how everyone wins.

  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    [Tycho?] wrote: »
    Or if you just go to a decently sized party with a wide mix of people. Throw in some alcohol, drugs, you get some pretty crazy stuff being said. Call people on it if you want, sometimes happens, sometimes doesn't. But trying to enforce your own notion of political correctness on a bunch of people just trying to have fun is usually difficult at best, and is itself often considered more rude than the offensive language in the first place.
    You really need to considering hanging out with a better class of people.

    Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
    Rigorous Scholarship

  • TalkcTalkc Registered User
    edited October 2010
    Here is my two cents on it.

    Ive heard people say f***ot many times. But you know what is almost as common as the use of that word? Implying that someone is homosexual, and then deriding them for it.

    A lot of times it isnt as simple as someone saying the n word or calling people fa**ots. A lot of the time its people being insultingly hurtful towards people by being as offensive as possible.

    There is a difference in stating an opinion and verbally attacking somone.

  • [Tycho?][Tycho?] Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Modern Man wrote: »
    [Tycho?] wrote: »
    Or if you just go to a decently sized party with a wide mix of people. Throw in some alcohol, drugs, you get some pretty crazy stuff being said. Call people on it if you want, sometimes happens, sometimes doesn't. But trying to enforce your own notion of political correctness on a bunch of people just trying to have fun is usually difficult at best, and is itself often considered more rude than the offensive language in the first place.
    You really need to considering hanging out with a better class of people.

    I'll hang out with any class of people. More importantly, I don't choose before hand. If I show up at a party and only know one or two people there I'm not really looking to start shit due to someone's choice of words.

    ragesig.jpg

  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    [Tycho?] wrote: »
    Modern Man wrote: »
    [Tycho?] wrote: »
    Or if you just go to a decently sized party with a wide mix of people. Throw in some alcohol, drugs, you get some pretty crazy stuff being said. Call people on it if you want, sometimes happens, sometimes doesn't. But trying to enforce your own notion of political correctness on a bunch of people just trying to have fun is usually difficult at best, and is itself often considered more rude than the offensive language in the first place.
    You really need to considering hanging out with a better class of people.

    I'll hang out with any class of people. More importantly, I don't choose before hand. If I show up at a party and only know one or two people there I'm not really looking to start shit due to someone's choice of words.
    Different strokes and all that. But I can't really remember the last time I hung out in a social setting where racial slurs were acceptable. Other than online games, I guess.

    Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
    Rigorous Scholarship

  • HachfaceHachface Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    [Tycho?] wrote: »
    Also, I'll point out that I consider it a degradation of online discourse that I cannot use the "N-word" here. We may be discussing it and other words such a context that makes its use totally relevant. But nope, its naughty, and its a no-no. A childish sentiment in my mind, not like its going to change. Online, I consider improper punctuation and capitalization errors way worse than racism/homophobia/whatever.

    Your priorities are bad.

  • MagicPrimeMagicPrime "We're ready to believe you..." FireSideWizardRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    But wait -- what happens if the first openly gay person he meets is a legitimate lame-ass person?

    flzthy.png
    This neo-feudalism would be more tolerable if our betters had fancy titles.
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