Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

[The Hobbit] The Longest Post in History, pg 48

2456771

Posts

  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I'm not super happy about the Hobbit situation either - I think the Union (which is affiliated to the Australian equivalent) has really messed this up as well as Time Warner and I think the government is going to use this high profile case (along with a potential teacher strike) to really mess with employment law - I'd also note that we are about 10 years since the last big reform as well, as these things have happened roughly every ten years for a bit.

    Here are more stories on the Hobbit industrial dispute

    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Which bugs the crap out of me I must say, as the Hobbit was one of my two or three all time favourites growing up. My parents had found a beautifully illustrated edition in the 1980s which I read so much it has almost fallen apart.

    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • RaynagaRaynaga Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    JebusUD wrote: »
    Raynaga wrote: »
    JebusUD wrote: »
    The other movies weren't as great as people make them out to be.

    I keep seeing this, and at the risk of derailing the thread I would ask: "How so?"

    It seems like popular backlash, more than anything else.

    It is probably just a matter of hype. There was so much hype that it made expectations overshoot reality. I mean, they are fine. They are just not great.

    Yeah, you didn't answer my question.

    I understand you think they weren't great. I'm just curious as to why.

    I'm not being augmentative, I'm genuinely curious. I've heard this a fair amount, but I've never heard anyone support it.

  • L|amaL|ama Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Kalkino have you been following all the stuff national has been trying to do? I haven't been paying super close attention, but I recall hearing mention of something like 'no unions allowed unless employers agree', which seems like a monumentally awful idea.

  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Rikushix wrote: »
    Havelock wrote: »
    Nucker wrote: »
    Sheep wrote: »
    Nucker wrote: »
    Was wondering something--I can only assume that they'll bring back Andy Serkis as Gollum, yes? Please say yes?

    I'd like to see a gollum more akin to the one in the old 70s animation.

    Dunno if you've watched it or not, but in the extended edition of Return of the King they had more development of Smeagol's transformation into Gollum--would any of those renditions be more to liking?

    Well Gollum's hundreds of years old, and the time period between The Hobbit and LotR is, relativley speaking, rather short (55 years?), so I'd assume that Gollum in the Hobbit would look the same as Gollum in LotR.

    60 years. And I agree. Honestly if they got Andy to reprise Gollum and they used the same motion capture technology I would prefer it if he were almost the same in appearance as he was in LotR. Maybe some minor differences.

    Your math is bad.

    He turns 50 during the barrel ride. The Fellowship opens 61 years later but Frodo doesn't leave for another 17, so Gollum is 78 years older.

    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    L|ama wrote: »
    Kalkino have you been following all the stuff national has been trying to do? I haven't been paying super close attention, but I recall hearing mention of something like 'no unions allowed unless employers agree', which seems like a monumentally awful idea.

    Not closely yet, but I plan to remedy that lack this week.

    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Re: Gollum's age - the ring also keeps him from ageing at the same rate as others, but post-The Hobbit he doesn't have the ring any more. I wouldn't want him to look quite as different as he did in the sequence at the beginning of Return of the King (Extended Edition), but he shouldn't look exactly as he does in the regular sequences either.

    Eagles on Pogo Sticks: Musings of a Goofy Beast
    http://goofybeast.wordpress.com
  • GimGim Long Live Biscuits Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Is this still two movies?

    g82o84jak1ey.jpg
  • Unco-ordinatedUnco-ordinated Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    L|ama wrote: »
    Time Warner are requesting that we change our employment law so that they film it here in New Zealand. What an utter load of bullshit.

    There's no indication at all Warner requested that. I'm iffy on National making changes as well but we'll see what happens.

    If anyone comes out of this situation looking good though, it'll be National. This is a PR nightmare for the unions and Labour and the Greens will be dragged down with them through association.

    Steam ID - LiquidSolid170 | PSN ID - LiquidSolid
  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    L|ama wrote: »
    Time Warner are requesting that we change our employment law so that they film it here in New Zealand. What an utter load of bullshit.

    There's no indication at all Warner requested that. I'm iffy on National making changes as well but we'll see what happens.

    If anyone comes out of this situation looking good though, it'll be National. This is a PR nightmare for the unions and Labour and the Greens will be dragged down with them through association.

    Yup. There are a lot of people who regret the repeal of the Employment Contracts Act in 2001( or was it 99?) and who, despite a very quiet 15 years for industrial relations are of the firm belief unions undermine the economy. I think they were already keen to review the law further and now they have a great excuse. Which is not unlike what is happening in the UK with the BA strike

    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • L|amaL|ama Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    L|ama wrote: »
    Time Warner are requesting that we change our employment law so that they film it here in New Zealand. What an utter load of bullshit.

    There's no indication at all Warner requested that. I'm iffy on National making changes as well but we'll see what happens.

    If anyone comes out of this situation looking good though, it'll be National. This is a PR nightmare for the unions and Labour and the Greens will be dragged down with them through association.

    Yeah I googled around after that post, that's what I get for assuming what mum said was right.


    The greens could play this well to people who are already sympathetic, but I'm not sure about that.

  • AtomikaAtomika (citation needed)Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Gim wrote: »
    Is this still two movies?

    Yep.

    In 3-D!

  • VariableVariable Weed and Masturbation Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    is it one movie that's the book and one that's in between hobbit and lotr? I remember reading that a looong time ago.

    I will also restate a vote for a different looking gollum. pre torture, pre losing the ring which would have a huge effect

    Steam Profile - Variable114 | WiiU - Variable | 3DS - 3866-8105-7478
    Sig%20-%20Reggie%20Watts.png
  • AtomikaAtomika (citation needed)Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Variable wrote: »
    is it one movie that's the book and one that's in between hobbit and lotr? I remember reading that a looong time ago.

    I will also restate a vote for a different looking gollum. pre torture, pre losing the ring which would have a huge effect

    That was an early idea, but I'm fairly certain the plan now is to tell The Hobbit over two movies, with both movies being heavily embellished by events occurring at or around the same time, as stated in the Indices.

  • ColanutColanut Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Variable wrote: »
    is it one movie that's the book and one that's in between hobbit and lotr? I remember reading that a looong time ago.

    I will also restate a vote for a different looking gollum. pre torture, pre losing the ring which would have a huge effect

    That was an early idea, but I'm fairly certain the plan now is to tell The Hobbit over two movies, with both movies being heavily embellished by events occurring at or around the same time, as stated in the Indices.

    Is this from any particular source? I hadn't heard this as a possibility (not saying its not). Not sure how I feel about it; similar trepidation as my feelings for filming in 3-D I guess.

    Edit: there is this ambiguous statement:
    Jackson, who directed all three “Lord of the Rings” films, will helm the two films back-to-back, telling the story of “The Hobbit” in two parts. Jackson will utilize groundbreaking visual effects and his incomparable story-telling to bring J.R.R. Tolkien’s novel to the big screen. Both Hobbit movies will be filmed in Digital 3-D, using the latest camera and stereo technology to create a high quality, comfortable viewing experience. Jackson also co-wrote the screenplays with Fran Walsh, Phillipa Boyens and Guillermo del Toro.

    Still, it might be a broad interpretation of "Hobbit films". But it might work out alright as well. 3-D I don't really care for.

  • AtomikaAtomika (citation needed)Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Colanut wrote: »
    Variable wrote: »
    is it one movie that's the book and one that's in between hobbit and lotr? I remember reading that a looong time ago.

    I will also restate a vote for a different looking gollum. pre torture, pre losing the ring which would have a huge effect

    That was an early idea, but I'm fairly certain the plan now is to tell The Hobbit over two movies, with both movies being heavily embellished by events occurring at or around the same time, as stated in the Indices.

    Is this from any particular source? I hadn't heard this as a possibility (not saying its not). Not sure how I feel about it; similar trepidation as my feelings for filming in 3-D I guess.

    Edit: there is this ambiguous statement:
    Jackson, who directed all three “Lord of the Rings” films, will helm the two films back-to-back, telling the story of “The Hobbit” in two parts. Jackson will utilize groundbreaking visual effects and his incomparable story-telling to bring J.R.R. Tolkien’s novel to the big screen. Both Hobbit movies will be filmed in Digital 3-D, using the latest camera and stereo technology to create a high quality, comfortable viewing experience. Jackson also co-wrote the screenplays with Fran Walsh, Phillipa Boyens and Guillermo del Toro.

    Still, it might be a broad interpretation of "Hobbit films". But it might work out alright as well. 3-D I don't really care for.

    This is from over a year ago, but as far as I know it's still the plan.
    “We’ve decided to have The Hobbit span the two movies, including the White Council and the comings and goings of Gandalf to Dol Guldur,”

    link

  • AtomikaAtomika (citation needed)Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    As well, Andy Serkis firmly believes that The Hobbit will still be shot in New Zealand.

    Informed insight? Or hopeful speculation? I guess we'll know soon; production starts in a little over three months.

  • ColanutColanut Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Ah, thank you. I hadn't seen that. Probably because I started paying attention after all the studio/director/actors drama. I'm warming to the larger, merged story. Though, I was hoping for a more light hearted adventure movie (like the book) for the first, with a second movie moving towards a more "serious" bridge to LotR. My kid will be 8 by the time this is out so maybe that is coloring my expectations.

  • AtomikaAtomika (citation needed)Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Colanut wrote: »
    Ah, thank you. I hadn't seen that. Probably because I started paying attention after all the studio/director/actors drama. I'm warming to the larger, merged story. Though, I was hoping for a more light hearted adventure movie (like the book) for the first, with a second movie moving towards a more "serious" bridge to LotR. My kid will be 8 by the time this is out so maybe that is coloring my expectations.

    Until someone says otherwise, I'd expect The Hobbit to be on a similar maturity level as the rest of the LOTR films.

    Given that there's probably going to be a lot of talky-talk with Gandalf's comings and goings behind the scenes with the Council and whatnot, plus Smaug destroying everything and the Battle of Five Armies, it's probably going to be a bit grown up.


    But hey, there's always the Rankin-Bass films for your kid to enjoy.

  • SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    EDIT: I could definitely see Fassbender as either Bard or Beorn. I agree, he's really really good and has the look of a Middle-Earth man. Maybe we'll get Tennat as King Thranduil. It'd be a nice counter as a wood elf to Weaving's high elf Elrond.

    I was under the impression that the wood elf king wasn't actually a wood elf, but a high elf. Also thought he was Legolas's father, so I could be mixing him up with an entirely different character. Not that I wouldn't mind seeing Tennant somewhere, mind you...

    I'm pretty sure he wasn't a noldor.

    Being walkers with the dawn and morning,
    Walkers with the sun and morning, we are not afraid of night,
    Nor days of gloom, nor darkness -
    Being walkers with the sun and morning.
  • TlexTlex Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    As far as I know Thranduil wasn't a high elf. Wasn't he a Sindarin? They didn't see Valinor or something so they couldn't be counted as high elves.

    source: Battle for Middle Earth 2

  • SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Tlex wrote: »
    As far as I know Thranduil wasn't a high elf. Wasn't he a Sindarin? They didn't see Valinor or something so they couldn't be counted as high elves.

    Yeah they didn't get the level up from being in the land of bliss.

    Being walkers with the dawn and morning,
    Walkers with the sun and morning, we are not afraid of night,
    Nor days of gloom, nor darkness -
    Being walkers with the sun and morning.
  • KilroyKilroy The Architect Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
  • FallingmanFallingman Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    The whole actors union thing is such a clusterfuck.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Linespider5Linespider5 Agent of Etc.Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    The Gollum thing:

    Ok, he'd been without his precious for years and had been, you know, tortured for an inhuman length of time by unspeakable darkness. So I can accept he'd look different in the Hobbit.

    But he still spent the majority of his lifespan living in a sunless cave eating raw fish. I seem to recall in the LOTR movies we got to see him relishing in his diet of choice with a dentist's nightmare for teeth.

    I...suppose they could make him pudgier or something?

    2014png.png
  • Unco-ordinatedUnco-ordinated Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Kalkino wrote: »
    L|ama wrote: »
    Time Warner are requesting that we change our employment law so that they film it here in New Zealand. What an utter load of bullshit.

    There's no indication at all Warner requested that. I'm iffy on National making changes as well but we'll see what happens.

    If anyone comes out of this situation looking good though, it'll be National. This is a PR nightmare for the unions and Labour and the Greens will be dragged down with them through association.

    Yup. There are a lot of people who regret the repeal of the Employment Contracts Act in 2001( or was it 99?) and who, despite a very quiet 15 years for industrial relations are of the firm belief unions undermine the economy. I think they were already keen to review the law further and now they have a great excuse. Which is not unlike what is happening in the UK with the BA strike
    Yeah, it only takes a few idiots to ruin a good thing.

    L|ama: Chances are, anyone that are actually backing the union are already staunch Labour or Green supporters anyway. The only thing this is going to do is drive 'independents' away from Labour, because Actors Equity were run by incompetent morons.

    Anyway, good news:
    Filming of The Hobbit will stay in New Zealand after an agreement was reached between the Government and studio executives at a crisis meeting today.

    Prime Minister John Key has just made the announcement at a press conference at the Beehive.

    Mr Key, senior cabinet ministers and officials met Warner Bros representatives at Premier House in Wellington today for a second day of talks.

    The major sticking point during negotiations appeared to be what financial incentives the Government could offer Warner Bros to keep the $670 million production here.

    The studio had also been worried about ambiguities in New Zealand employment law and the threat of disruption due to union action.

    - NZPA
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10683486

    Steam ID - LiquidSolid170 | PSN ID - LiquidSolid
  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Kalkino wrote: »
    L|ama wrote: »
    Time Warner are requesting that we change our employment law so that they film it here in New Zealand. What an utter load of bullshit.

    There's no indication at all Warner requested that. I'm iffy on National making changes as well but we'll see what happens.

    If anyone comes out of this situation looking good though, it'll be National. This is a PR nightmare for the unions and Labour and the Greens will be dragged down with them through association.

    Yup. There are a lot of people who regret the repeal of the Employment Contracts Act in 2001( or was it 99?) and who, despite a very quiet 15 years for industrial relations are of the firm belief unions undermine the economy. I think they were already keen to review the law further and now they have a great excuse. Which is not unlike what is happening in the UK with the BA strike
    Yeah, it only takes a few idiots to ruin a good thing.

    L|ama: Chances are, anyone that are actually backing the union are already staunch Labour or Green supporters anyway. The only thing this is going to do is drive 'independents' away from Labour, because Actors Equity were run by incompetent morons.

    Anyway, good news:
    Filming of The Hobbit will stay in New Zealand after an agreement was reached between the Government and studio executives at a crisis meeting today.

    Prime Minister John Key has just made the announcement at a press conference at the Beehive.

    Mr Key, senior cabinet ministers and officials met Warner Bros representatives at Premier House in Wellington today for a second day of talks.

    The major sticking point during negotiations appeared to be what financial incentives the Government could offer Warner Bros to keep the $670 million production here.

    The studio had also been worried about ambiguities in New Zealand employment law and the threat of disruption due to union action.

    - NZPA
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10683486

    So they came for a rebate of $15 mill per film and unspecified law changes to Employment law? Interesting

    Edit - HAHAHA - the reporter just asked Key something along the lines of "If we change our employment law at the behest of Warner Brothers do we come out of this with any dignity?"

    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • AtomikaAtomika (citation needed)Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Good. Now we can finally move on as planned. Who's left to cast?

    Beorn - Michael Fassbender?
    Bard - ?
    Thranduil - David Tennant?
    Elrond - hopefully Hugo Weaving
    Ori, Nori, Bofur, and Bifur - ?
    The town master - ?
    Bolg - ?


    That's not many. Hopefully this union thing was the final roadblock to progress, and we'll get an announcement soon. Don't hold your breath, however; Viggo Mortensen didn't join the cast until two weeks after start of photography, when his part had to be recast.

  • DHSDHS Chase lizards.. ...bark at donkeys..Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Good. Now we can finally move on as planned. Who's left to cast?

    Beorn - Michael Fassbender?
    Bard - ?
    Thranduil - David Tennant?
    Elrond - hopefully Hugo Weaving
    Ori, Nori, Bofur, and Bifur - ?
    The town master - ?
    Bolg - ?


    That's not many. Hopefully this union thing was the final roadblock to progress, and we'll get an announcement soon. Don't hold your breath, however; Viggo Mortensen didn't join the cast until two weeks after start of photography, when his part had to be recast.

    The Voice of Smaug: Bill Nighy? Brian Cox?
    Thror and Thrain: I imagine there will be flashbacks, and Gandalf does get the map from Thrain in the Necromancer's dungeon.
    Radaghast: If they adapt material from the Appendices, Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales, he'll show up.
    Saruman: If Radaghast he'd have to be, hopefully Christopher Lee, but who knows if he can still make the trip to New Zealand.
    The Necromancer: I'm not really sure what they're gonna do here.
    Gwaihir, Eagles: Dunno
    The Trolls

    Most of the other roles left are just voices, so those might not be forthcoming.

    "Grip 'em up, grip 'em, grip 'em good, said the Gryphon... to the pig."
  • Aroused BullAroused Bull Registered User
    edited October 2010
    I enjoy all of Tolkien's works but wasn't particularly enthused by the LOTR movies - they were alright, nothing special. I have higher hopes for a Hobbit movie; I think the story is a lot better suited for a film than the LOTR trilogy was. The only thing that worries me is the notion of splitting it up into two parts and adding all the extra stuff about the Necromancer and the White Council and so forth. Isn't that likely to muck up the pacing and distract from the main story? I'd rather see one well-crafted movie than two less interesting ones.

  • ColanutColanut Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Sylvester McCoy has been cast (but not signed) as Radaghast.

  • CabezoneCabezone Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I am a lot less interested in this without Guillermo at the helm. I though he was the perfect director for this film. Jackson has a way of making actors seem uninteresting.

  • TlexTlex Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I can't quite fathom how anyone can doubt Jackson's ability to helm these films after what he did with LoTR, it is entirely beyond me. He has already proved(with what, 10? oscars) that he has envisioned a fantastic middle earth, and translated a literary great into film when many would have thought it impossible.

  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Tlex, you're acting as if Jackson is infallible. While he did some magnificent work, he also had certain weak points, e.g. increasingly turning Gimli into comic relief only, going over the top when a more subtle touch would have been better (e.g. the avalanche of skulls in Return of the Kings), his tendency to slip from pathos into bathos and Wagnerian kitsch especially in the third film. I definitely felt that he became somewhat over-confident in the way the third movie is put together: editing, VFX, characterisation.

    Eagles on Pogo Sticks: Musings of a Goofy Beast
    http://goofybeast.wordpress.com
  • TlexTlex Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    You're right on all points. However due to the aforementioned magnificent work there isn't anyone that I would rather see making this film. Del Toro wasn't a great loss.

  • AtomikaAtomika (citation needed)Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Cabezone wrote: »
    I am a lot less interested in this without Guillermo at the helm. I though he was the perfect director for this film. Jackson has a way of making actors seem uninteresting.

    I would agree that del Toro gets better performances out of his actors, but I wouldn't say much better, as Jackson does a pretty decent job. Jackson isn't as subtle as del Toro, that's the biggest difference.

    But del Toro has a nasty habit of letting the story get away from him, and putting much more emphasis on the tactility of the world within the movie than on tone and character. I really thought having both Jackson and del Toro together on the project was a great idea, as they complemented each other's faults but bolstered each other's strengths. However, if I had to choose just one of them to work on the project, it would indeed be Jackson.

  • WishpigWishpig Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Ahhh good! A thread dedicated too the Hobbit does exist! Just got into Lord of the Rings Online... and I'm am on Middle-earth crack again! I cannot wait for the Hobbit films, and have just dedicated the last hour to catching up on what the fuck is going on.

    Good to hear it's all on-track

    and glad to hear Jackson and not Del Toro is on the job. I think Del Toro is the man and makes some great films, but I just had a bad feeling about him directing the Hobbit. And while the guy is brilliant when it comes to visuals he's made enough average films (the Hellboys) to make me not fully trust him. Jackson has his weaknesses to be sure... but I wouldn't trust anyone else!

    What I don't get is some of the casting choices!

    Heres a great site to match up faces to the names you already know!
    http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2010/10/21/39468-meet-your-hobbit-cast/

    Thorin, Kili, and Fili...

    WTF?

    Not a single one strikes me as proper casting. They just look absolutely nothing like dwarves. Hopefully they slap some major makeup on them pretty faces.

    This image proves its possible I guess..
    Spoiler:

    Although I hate to say it, I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to sexy up the dwarves. But I understand it as much as I hate it, more sex appeal would mean more $$$. A movie staring a bunch of ugly dwarfs and a chunky hobbit would certainly be missing it's Orlando/Viggo panty soaking draw.

    SIGH!

    WARNING: Picture below may cause spontaneous growth of facial hair and/or body hair.
    Spoiler:
  • FencingsaxFencingsax Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    To be fair, if you told me that Sallah would make an awesome Gimli, I would have thought you were crazy.

    Also, this is WETA Workshop.

    It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it
  • VariableVariable Weed and Masturbation Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I had no idea...

    BILL NIGHY – THE VOICE OF SMAUG

    ...oh my god

    also all the casting looks great to me to be honest. any given one of them could probably be older but make up can do some amazing things.

    Steam Profile - Variable114 | WiiU - Variable | 3DS - 3866-8105-7478
    Sig%20-%20Reggie%20Watts.png
  • TaximesTaximes Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I just found this again the other day:
    Spoiler:

    The surprise gift they gave out to everyone who sat through the entire trilogy (extended editions, for the first two!) when Return of the King came out.

    Man, I can't wait for the Hobbit.

Sign In or Register to comment.