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[The Hobbit] The Longest Post in History, pg 48
Posts
Indeed. The bits that are the most similiar to quasi-christian ideas fit with versions of Christianity (or closely related ofshoots) that were deemed Hereticial and quite frimly eradicated once one particular brand of Christians gained the powers of the imperial roman state.
Mogroth alone is nearly as powerful, in his terms of power (raw strength with which to dominate rather than wisdom), as all the Valar combined. And he could only be banished from the world in a conflict so terrible it destroyed the entire western end of the continent.
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AManFromEarth - yeah I think we do basicially agree on the subject
while the cosmology of LOTR contains a God it does not contain a Jesus. And it seems to me pretty hard to have Christianity without a Christ.
There is the direct analog to the Lucifer myth, with Melkor. One of the chosen Valar (arch-angels) of Eru falls from grace after attempting to usurp Eru's power. He then wreaks havoc on the other through his evil machinations. Sound familiar?
There are an incredibly number of parallels easily drawn between Christ and Frodo, outside of the divine conception.
While he may not have been deliberately attempting to create an easy to read primer to Christianity for children, which Lewis was, you can't deny Tolkien's religion heavily influenced the Lord of the Rings. It's not even a kind of loosey goosey influence, it's very stark and easy to pick up if you pay attention. It isn't egregious though, which is why most people accept it as valid mythology.
He is even invited to go to Aman with the elves, because of bearing that burden. It had changed him forever, made him unable to live in the twilight lands. He had seen tot much, knew too much.
Frodo is absolutely a messiah figure.
I think even Tolkien was a little too sensitive on this issue, hell he tried to act like the war didn't influence it at all either.
He actually wasn't sensitive about the Christianity part. He was pretty open that his faith influenced the books. The war part, he acknowledged the influence, but didn't want to discuss it. He was spiky about it, and he had every right to be. He saw first hand the horrors of WW1 trench combat. That changes you.
There are two concepts of evil competing against each other in LotR, evil as the absence of the good, 'the Shadow', and evil as an opposing force, 'the Dark Power'. The former is fairly standard Catholic theology, while the later is borderline dualistic heresy. However, Tolkien probably found the former to be lacking based on his experiences in WWI and later WWII. The claim that the one hurt most by evil acts is the one performing them begins to ring a little hollow faced with the horrors of either. One could see the LotR as a method of reconciling the two, and also understanding what it means to be moral when faced with evil.
For a more details see Tom Shippey's "JRR Tolkien: Author of the Century".
I'll agree with this. I never really thought of Aragorn as the classic Jewish messiah figure, but you're right. It's curious that the new archetypes are represented by different characters. I wonder if that was intentional, or just a coincidence.
Psst Psst
Arguably, he was also God's son throughout but he was Aslan in Narnia and Jesus in our world, then for some reason when they get to heaven he becomes our version of Jesus.
There's also discussion about the end of the book and the concept of, what I think I remember them describing as "divine catastrophe." Rather than everything going to shit for no reason, divine intervention plays out in the form of a miracle (everything from Gollum inadvertently destroying the ring up to the eagles rescuing Sam and Frodo).
It's one of my favorite features on the EE, definitely worth watching.
That would be pretty great. The LEGO games are always fun.
The Tolkien-coined word you're looking for is 'eucatastrophe.'
Yeah that was awful, just took me right out of the story even as a kid. Worst part for me was
I can understand you not wanting to read them now, since they're children's books... but ever? That's pretty lame.
Also who cares what happens at the end, since The Horse and his Boy is arguably the best book anyway... and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise in their stupid mouth.
They aren't half bad. However, just like the Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy books, it's wise to steer clear of the last one.
also, yes YESSSSSSSS to the Lego LoTR Game!
Xaquin's Manly Knitting Blog! Conquest Tactics .... a better CCG
His children book series is secretly very preachy while seeming to be broadly fantasy while his obvious religious works are very not preachy like the Screwtape Letters.
Well there is a bit of overt stuff like the best trick the devil ever pulled was to make man not believe in him but honestly? Just a good book on how to not let your personal demons get the best of you.
Broken link.
Worked for moi.
Michael Dorn wants to do a direct to DVD Worf movie. Hmm...
Oh, and Lego LOTR's= pretty cool if they keep the actors lines in
Then again the upcoming DC game will be voiced so who knows.
This time it's on the studio. The logistics are fascinating, plus there's a smattering of shooting, plenty of blurred-out things, a new actor we haven't seen before and plenty of silliness.
The facial hair is where he stores his slow-motion zoom-in-on-the-face shots.
that was freaking awesome!
- There will be a big shin-dig for The Hobbit next week at Comic-Con. No word on what framerate they'll be using. I'm hoping 24fps. McKellan and Freeman will be there with Jackson, possibly premiering a new trailer.
- Today is the last day of photography! 266 days in total. The entire LOTR trilogy shot for 438 days with a final cut time of 638 minutes. By that math, the two Hobbit films might run around 6+ hours (in a potential Extended Edition).
- New pics from EW! Gandalf! Bilbo! Thorin! Barrels! Elrond and Galadriel! Orcrist! Gollum! Mirkwood!
* By children I mean "people not too-cool to read The Hobbit"
Well, it's going to be fairly heavily embellished.
I guess we're going to see a lot more of every setting. More Hobbiton, the Misty Mountains, etc.
I've gathered from set reports that we're going to see a lot of Hobbiton, at least as much as we saw in Fellowship. As well, we're going to see a lot of events and places that just weren't in the book at all, like the White Council and the Tomb of the Necromancer and whathaveyou. Plus, the book-ending pieces with Elijah Wood and Ian Holm.