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Pagan rituals BE GONE

124

Posts

  • ElitistbElitistb Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Elitistb wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Zombies originated in voodoo with a mixture of vampire thrown in.
    Voodoo is christian, isn't it?
    No. There is some cross-over between Voodoo loas and Christian saints, though.
    So being syncretized with catholicism and having stuff like crosses and the lord's prayer, etc, isn't enough to make it christian?

    Edit: Looked up some other stuff, yeah, pretty different. But you seen one wacky set of beliefs, you've seen them all.

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  • QuidQuid The Fifth Horseman Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Elitistb wrote: »
    Elitistb wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Zombies originated in voodoo with a mixture of vampire thrown in.
    Voodoo is christian, isn't it?
    No. There is some cross-over between Voodoo loas and Christian saints, though.
    So being syncretized with catholicism and having stuff like crosses and the lord's prayer, etc, isn't enough to make it christian?

    Not any more than God pretty much being Zeus makes it Greek mythology.

    PSN: allenquid
  • Mortal SkyMortal Sky FONOTUNE Electric FairytaleRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Mortal Sky wrote: »
    I know the New Zealanders don't like Halloween (but then I think New Zealand is kinda fucked up for quite a few reasons)

    This is mostly because they see it exactly this way: a pagan ritual that threatens their strange little highly conservative Anglican brains.
    Also the New Zealand Anglican church's policies are about three decades behind most of the rest of said church. The things I learn from having a family incredibly tied to the inner workings of Anglicanism.

    I grew up in New Zealand and this is completely contrary to my experiences. Halloween was very popular. I never met a kid who wasn't allowed to dress up. We always got trick-or-treaters. Adult Halloween parties were common.
    Considering that only about 15% of the population is Anglican, and I wouldn't characterise it as a particulary conservative country (probably more to the reverse, in fact), what makes you think your experiences are the norm in New Zealand rather than stemming from your family being close to the inner workings of Anglicanism, and therefore naturally moving in conservative Anglican circles?
    Fair enough. All the Kiwis I've known have been a little screw loose in general, and all of them were ninvolved in church work, so maybe it is just something about the Diocese of NZ that's really fucked up.

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  • L|amaL|ama Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Mortal Sky wrote: »
    I know the New Zealanders don't like Halloween (but then I think New Zealand is kinda fucked up for quite a few reasons)

    This is mostly because they see it exactly this way: a pagan ritual that threatens their strange little highly conservative Anglican brains.
    Also the New Zealand Anglican church's policies are about three decades behind most of the rest of said church. The things I learn from having a family incredibly tied to the inner workings of Anglicanism.

    Ahahaha what? Oh my goodness this is precious. I'm sorry but next to no one in new zealand gives a shit about religion at all.

    I think you have some fucked up bias with the people you have met, conservative and religious are about two of the last words I would use to describe new zealand.

    Halloween is only sort of a thing where I live, it's not really weird to go trick or treating or not to. Dad didn't let us though, I'm not sure if it was a safety thing or one of his silly 'rargh american culture invading' things.

  • bowenbowen Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Passerbye wrote: »
    Responding directly to the OP - I don't see anything wrong with kids dressing up however they like on Halloween/for Halloween at school, as long as it fits the school's dress code (for example, my middle school wouldn't allow low-cut tops, pants that showed someone's underwear, that sort of thing). And if other kids don't want to participate, or their parents don't want them to participate, they don't have to dress up.

    It seems like a better idea to not require participation than to outright ban it.

    I like this idea better.

    But we might offend someone because they're practicing Wicca by dressing up like the wicked witch of the west! So, clearly, you can only dress up like cast of the Jersey Shore for halloween. It's the safest way not to offend anyone. Except hookers. Fuck.

  • Aroused BullAroused Bull Registered User
    edited October 2010
    L|ama wrote: »
    Mortal Sky wrote: »
    I know the New Zealanders don't like Halloween (but then I think New Zealand is kinda fucked up for quite a few reasons)

    This is mostly because they see it exactly this way: a pagan ritual that threatens their strange little highly conservative Anglican brains.
    Also the New Zealand Anglican church's policies are about three decades behind most of the rest of said church. The things I learn from having a family incredibly tied to the inner workings of Anglicanism.

    Ahahaha what? Oh my goodness this is precious. I'm sorry but next to no one in new zealand gives a shit about religion at all.

    I think you have some fucked up bias with the people you have met, conservative and religious are about two of the last words I would use to describe new zealand.

    My train of thought was something like this, but I decided to be a bit more mild and polite about it. You definitely have a wrong view of the country.

  • General_WinGeneral_Win Registered User
    edited October 2010
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Yep, better take away Christmas too.

    God, Halloween is really starting to suck for kids. Can't even go out at night.

    Is that a rule only in the states? When I was a kid we always waited till it got dark.

    tf2_sig.png
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2010
    It would be city specific, people are still waiting until night around here..

  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Rogue Coral Springs, FLRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    It's not really a rule, just a growing habit.

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    蒼く咲く華 日は灯り 天に流れる | Kill The Past
  • PasserbyePasserbye The Woman Who Is Not Short at The Moonlite All-Nite Diner; a glass box full of bad food and good people.Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    bowen wrote: »
    Passerbye wrote: »
    Responding directly to the OP - I don't see anything wrong with kids dressing up however they like on Halloween/for Halloween at school, as long as it fits the school's dress code (for example, my middle school wouldn't allow low-cut tops, pants that showed someone's underwear, that sort of thing). And if other kids don't want to participate, or their parents don't want them to participate, they don't have to dress up.

    It seems like a better idea to not require participation than to outright ban it.

    I like this idea better.

    But we might offend someone because they're practicing Wicca by dressing up like the wicked witch of the west! So, clearly, you can only dress up like cast of the Jersey Shore for halloween. It's the safest way not to offend anyone. Except hookers. Fuck.

    Someone will always be offended no matter what you do. As long as you're not rubbing their face in it (going 'nya nya nya, I'm dressed up like an ugly witch, you're Wiccan, hahahaha!'), then that's the most you can do. I understand why Wiccans are trying to speak against that stereotype but stopping little kids seems like a silly way to go about it. Even if the kids understand (and some will), they'll be more upset that you took away their cool Halloween costume than anything else.

  • bowenbowen Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Won't someone think of the children??

    No but really, that was well said.

  • JihadJesusJihadJesus Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    If Wiccans really gave a shit they'd stop calling themselves 'witches' - there's no real reason to do it and a ton of negative associations and misperceptions that come along with the term.

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  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    JihadJesus wrote: »
    If Wiccans really gave a shit they'd stop calling themselves 'witches' - there's no real reason to do it and a ton of negative associations and misperceptions that come along with the term.
    Wicca is the most ridiculous, made-up religion out there. Well, other than Scientology, I guess. There's no real need to take Wiccans seriously.

    Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
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  • Raiden333Raiden333 Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    JihadJesus wrote: »
    If Wiccans really gave a shit they'd stop calling themselves 'witches' - there's no real reason to do it and a ton of negative associations and misperceptions that come along with the term.

    They're taking it back. <img class=" title=":lol:" class="bbcode_smiley" />

    camo_sig2.png
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Modern Man wrote: »
    JihadJesus wrote: »
    If Wiccans really gave a shit they'd stop calling themselves 'witches' - there's no real reason to do it and a ton of negative associations and misperceptions that come along with the term.
    Wicca is the most ridiculous, made-up religion out there. Well, other than Scientology, I guess. There's no real need to take Wiccans seriously.

    Hey. There were those guys that killed themselves so they could hitch a ride on that comet.

  • JihadJesusJihadJesus Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Modern Man wrote: »
    JihadJesus wrote: »
    If Wiccans really gave a shit they'd stop calling themselves 'witches' - there's no real reason to do it and a ton of negative associations and misperceptions that come along with the term.
    Wicca is the most ridiculous, made-up religion out there. Well, other than Scientology, I guess. There's no real need to take Wiccans seriously.

    But those guys worshipping the 2,000 year old Jewish zombie who was voluntarily tortured to death in order to remove the blood curse he himself in another form placed over the whole of humanity, those guys are totally reasonable and have it all sorted out. I'm assuming we should take them seriously, right? Yeah, Wicca is totally made up. So what - so is every other religion. I don't take Christianity or Islam seriously because it makes a good point. I take them seriously because millions of believers do so themselves.

    I think it's also important to point out that very few if any Wiccans actually literally believe the most 'ridiculous' things attributed to them en masse. Really the only thing I think you can confidently say is true of a Wiccan is that they call themselves that, which is probably the REAL reason not to take them seriously as a demographic group. I suppose it's a non-trancendental religion so it might imply some common moral beliefs re: ecological actions or environmentalism, but that'd be about it and that's probably still hardly a unifier.

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  • bowenbowen Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Wicca is usually closely related to celtic paganism and druidism I thought anyways. Panism and the worship of nature rather than casting spells and sacrifice which Christians usually attribute to them.

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    bowen wrote: »
    Wicca is usually closely related to celtic paganism and druidism I thought anyways. Panism and the worship of nature rather than casting spells and sacrifice which Christians usually attribute to them.

    Modern druidism is mostly made up. We know almost nothing about ancient druidism other than what the Romans tell us.

  • JihadJesusJihadJesus Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Couscous wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Wicca is usually closely related to celtic paganism and druidism I thought anyways. Panism and the worship of nature rather than casting spells and sacrifice which Christians usually attribute to them.

    Modern druidism is mostly made up. We know almost nothing about ancient druidism other than what the Romans tell us.
    Yeah, Crowley claimed that he had been taught this unbroken tradition going back to the Inquisistion or somesuch and a lot of the reviving pagan/Wiccan/whatever sects bought it for a while but that's been thoroughly debunked. Even most druids/Wiccans are well aware of this, which makes the desire to hang onto the term 'witch' even more odd as this is the only possible link to it.

    By the way, all of this info courtesy of NPR! Well, not directly. But one of the NPR correspondants wrote the book I get my limited knowledge of Wicca/paganism from.

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  • Glass.CannonGlass.Cannon Registered User
    edited October 2010
    Nevermind how old or accurate Wiccan traditions are. What about all of the cultural significance behind the word "witch"? Witches, hags, old crones, or whatever you want to call them, have been a popular monster pretty much throughout human history. Modern wiccans complaining that the "warty old bitch with a broomstick" image is offensive to them is as silly as if, say, someone decided to create a religion who's followers called themselves "vampires" and then complained about it when people think of Béla Lugosi.

    If you don't want your religion associated with monsters, don't name yourselves after them. I doubt anybody thinks of Wiccans when they see a witch costume except the Wiccans themselves. They lost priority over that term a long time ago, and it's a bit too late now for them to take it back.

  • RanadielRanadiel Registered User
    edited October 2010
    Things seemed to have gotten crazy shortly after I left elementary school, because I remember it was after that kids seemed to be unable to dress up in costume or celebrate Halloween in any shape or form at school, with the closest being "Harvest festivals."

    From what I observe it stems from pressure by parents groups or the general fear the administration has over possibly offending anyone over celebrating what could be considered by any stretch "pagan" holiday. Extremist Christian groups somehow twist what is a fun day for kids into a dark and sinister plot to convert young souls to Satanism. Funny you don't see them up in arms over Christmas, which also has roots in a pagan holiday.

    Basically those with the loudest voices and smallest minds ruin the fun for everyone else again.

  • RUNN1NGMANRUNN1NGMAN Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    JihadJesus wrote: »
    Modern Man wrote: »
    JihadJesus wrote: »
    If Wiccans really gave a shit they'd stop calling themselves 'witches' - there's no real reason to do it and a ton of negative associations and misperceptions that come along with the term.
    Wicca is the most ridiculous, made-up religion out there. Well, other than Scientology, I guess. There's no real need to take Wiccans seriously.

    But those guys worshipping the 2,000 year old Jewish zombie who was voluntarily tortured to death in order to remove the blood curse he himself in another form placed over the whole of humanity, those guys are totally reasonable and have it all sorted out. I'm assuming we should take them seriously, right? Yeah, Wicca is totally made up. So what - so is every other religion. I don't take Christianity or Islam seriously because it makes a good point. I take them seriously because millions of believers do so themselves.

    I think it's also important to point out that very few if any Wiccans actually literally believe the most 'ridiculous' things attributed to them en masse. Really the only thing I think you can confidently say is true of a Wiccan is that they call themselves that, which is probably the REAL reason not to take them seriously as a demographic group. I suppose it's a non-trancendental religion so it might imply some common moral beliefs re: ecological actions or environmentalism, but that'd be about it and that's probably still hardly a unifier.

    Not to mention the drinking human blood and eating human flesh every weekend.

  • CabezoneCabezone Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Modern Man wrote: »
    JihadJesus wrote: »
    If Wiccans really gave a shit they'd stop calling themselves 'witches' - there's no real reason to do it and a ton of negative associations and misperceptions that come along with the term.
    Wicca is the most ridiculous, made-up religion out there. Well, other than Scientology, I guess. There's no real need to take Wiccans seriously.

    All religions are made up. The only difference is some were made up a long ass time ago.

  • QuidQuid The Fifth Horseman Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Modern Man wrote: »
    JihadJesus wrote: »
    If Wiccans really gave a shit they'd stop calling themselves 'witches' - there's no real reason to do it and a ton of negative associations and misperceptions that come along with the term.
    Wicca is the most ridiculous, made-up religion out there. Well, other than Scientology, I guess. There's no real need to take Wiccans seriously.

    What non made up religion am I supposed to take seriously?

    PSN: allenquid
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Super Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited October 2010
    But dude, human flesh is so tasty.

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  • ElJeffeElJeffe Super Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited October 2010
    Quid wrote: »
    Modern Man wrote: »
    JihadJesus wrote: »
    If Wiccans really gave a shit they'd stop calling themselves 'witches' - there's no real reason to do it and a ton of negative associations and misperceptions that come along with the term.
    Wicca is the most ridiculous, made-up religion out there. Well, other than Scientology, I guess. There's no real need to take Wiccans seriously.

    What non made up religion am I supposed to take seriously?

    ElJeffism.

    It works like this: you worship me and give me 10% of your income, and I won't ban you. And if you stay good, I'll give you 72 virgins.

    I mean, I figure there's gotta be tons of virgins around here, may as well get some mileage out of them.

    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • RikushixRikushix Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Back when I was in Grade 7, our French teacher was a devout Christian (no idea what specific sect), and we first discovered this when she told us around mid October that she gave out candy for Halloween but refused to let her son go trick or treating because it was a holiday that worshiped the devil.

    Then a month or two later she told her she would do anything for jesus, including killing her own children.

    Needless to say she didn't show up after Christmas break.




    Anyway. Does someone want to enlighten me on the pagan origins of Christmas? I knew there were pagan roots but I'm unlearned as to their nature.

    StKbT.jpg
  • VestyVesty Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    It would be city specific, people are still waiting until night around here..

    It's actually borough specific here, but most boroughs tend to have it at the same time anyways. Ours is 6-8pm. Light enough at the beginning for some people and dark enough towards the end for others. Win win I suppose

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  • BolthornBolthorn Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Vesty wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    It would be city specific, people are still waiting until night around here..

    It's actually borough specific here, but most boroughs tend to have it at the same time anyways. Ours is 6-8pm. Light enough at the beginning for some people and dark enough towards the end for others. Win win I suppose

    That's the time schedule around here as well. I think it works great. Tend to see all the younger kids early and then the slightly older kids later. Then you get the kids who are obviously too old to be out begging for candy coming by after you've put out the fire and shut out all the lights.

    Our daughter went as a witch this year. It was her first Halloween ever. I think we started her on the proper path to annoying people with nothing better to do than complain about a Halloween costume. I don't understand this at all. If you don't want to celebrate something that's quite alright, but when you start restricting other people from people able to celebrate that same thing/holiday/religion/etc., we have a problem.

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  • RUNN1NGMANRUNN1NGMAN Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    My rule for Halloween is the first group of kids that show up wearing sports jerseys as their "uniform" means it's time to close up shop and turn off the lights.

  • JihadJesusJihadJesus Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    My daughter is going to be a witch this year, too. She's a year and a half old. It will be awesome.

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  • Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I remember in 2nd grade the teacher was assigning us some Christmasy art project in class and she asked if anyone didn't celebrate Christmas (she had an alternate assignment prepared) the one Jewish girl in the class burst out crying and ran out of the classroom dramatically. All eyes turned on David, the one Jewish boy in the class. He shrugged, as if to say "fuck if I know what her problem is."

  • Raiden333Raiden333 Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I remember in 2nd grade the teacher was assigning us some Christmasy art project in class and she asked if anyone didn't celebrate Christmas (she had an alternate assignment prepared) the one Jewish girl in the class burst out crying and ran out of the classroom dramatically. All eyes turned on David, the one Jewish boy in the class. He shrugged, as if to say "fuck if I know what her problem is."

    Quite a mouth for a 2nd grader.

    camo_sig2.png
  • Bionic MonkeyBionic Monkey Registered User, ClubPA
    edited October 2010
    Modern Man wrote: »
    JihadJesus wrote: »
    If Wiccans really gave a shit they'd stop calling themselves 'witches' - there's no real reason to do it and a ton of negative associations and misperceptions that come along with the term.
    Wicca is the most ridiculous, made-up religion out there. Well, other than Scientology, I guess. There's no real need to take Wiccans seriously.

    Golden tablets, and an angel named Moroni.

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  • Bionic MonkeyBionic Monkey Registered User, ClubPA
    edited October 2010
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Modern Man wrote: »
    JihadJesus wrote: »
    If Wiccans really gave a shit they'd stop calling themselves 'witches' - there's no real reason to do it and a ton of negative associations and misperceptions that come along with the term.
    Wicca is the most ridiculous, made-up religion out there. Well, other than Scientology, I guess. There's no real need to take Wiccans seriously.

    What non made up religion am I supposed to take seriously?

    ElJeffism.

    It works like this: you worship me and give me 10% of your income, and I won't ban you. And if you stay good, I'll give you 72 virgins.

    I mean, I figure there's gotta be tons of virgins around here, may as well get some mileage out of them.

    Note he didn't specify that they would be female virgins.

    sig_megas_armed.jpg
  • JihadJesusJihadJesus Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Are you kidding? He didn't even specify that they'd be human virgins. Enjoy your eternal paradise, fully stocked with 70 sexually mature but virgin chimpanzees, devout follower!

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  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    That sounds great next to the box of 72 female virgin damselflies he gave me. :(
    He didn't even poke holes in it. Now they're dead.

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  • BloodshedBloodshed I smoke my friends Down to the FilterRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    A long time ago, children came to school and before class began, they said a prayer and/or The Pledge of Allegience while facing the American flag. Not anymore.

    When I was a kid my parents dragged me around for like 4 hours Trick or Treating, and we would go home exhausted with sore feet and a overflowing pillow case of candy. Now, most places around where I live give the kids one hour to Trick or Treat, during daylight hours.

    We have become less tolerant over time, under the guise of protecting everyone's freedoms. We're turning our world vanilla because Group A hates chocolate or Group B is allergic to strawberry.

    And I speak most specifically about America, whose greatest asset is slowly being diminished, and that's our Melting Pot society. The idea that we were supposed to have a place where not only were our differing beliefs legal, they were accepted and embraced as part of what made us a great society.

    We've all become so worried about offending eachother, we've stopped being individuals who openly express themselves and we're blending into the scenery around us.

    High School used to be the place we experimented and discovered who we were to become, and now oppressive rules and dress codes demand conformity.

    One thing has remained true of humanity from the beginning of time. We're still afraid of the things we don't understand. And if we can't dominate or neutralize it, we destroy it.


    /semi-on-topic-rant off

  • mythagomythago Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I remember in 2nd grade the teacher was assigning us some Christmasy art project in class and she asked if anyone didn't celebrate Christmas (she had an alternate assignment prepared) the one Jewish girl in the class burst out crying and ran out of the classroom dramatically. All eyes turned on David, the one Jewish boy in the class. He shrugged, as if to say "fuck if I know what her problem is."

    So, in your mind, the problem wasn't that the 2nd grade teacher was such a fucking idiot that she had to make a seven-year-old stand up in front of all her classmates and say "No, I have a weird-ass religion unlike all the rest of you," the problem was that the seven-year-old failed to STFU and keep her head down meekly like a good Jewish kid?

    Christmas and Easter are religious holidays with secular outpots. Halloween is a secular holiday. I don't even know any Wiccans who call their religious version of it Halloween (it's Samhain to them), and they don't celebrate by trick-or-treating.

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar QA Tester -> Game Producer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Bloodshed wrote: »
    A long time ago, children came to school and before class began, they said a prayer and/or The Pledge of Allegience while facing the American flag. Not anymore.

    The pledge is no longer used because it was perverted by McCarthyism into a religious oath and it was easier to just stop forcing people to pledge blindly to such an oath than to alter the oath back to its previous state.

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