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A Song of Ice and Fire: The pilot is so close you can taste the incest.

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  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Re: Valyrian steel, I got the impression from the books that it was supposed to be darker than normal steel, and significantly lighter. I took a peek at the "official merchandise" page for the series, and it looks like there's just a light grayish pattern printed onto the metal. Oh well. Not a deal-breaker at all for me.

    Valyrian steel is basically a Westeros version of Damascas Steel, right down to the mottled pattern in the blades. The shifting bands should be visable to the naked eye, but you'd need a fairly close shot to see it to full effect, something that's lacking in the views of Ice that we see in the preview they showed.

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  • AeolusdallasAeolusdallas Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Balefuego wrote: »
    I really liked the preview footage--there are still a lot of people I can't wait to see on screen, Jaime, Tyrion, and Littlefinger chief among them. I also hope we get to see the Blackfish at some point, even though Martin blogged that he wouldn't be appearing at the Eyrie.

    Re: Valyrian steel, I got the impression from the books that it was supposed to be darker than normal steel, and significantly lighter. I took a peek at the "official merchandise" page for the series, and it looks like there's just a light grayish pattern printed onto the metal. Oh well. Not a deal-breaker at all for me.

    The one thing that actually bugged me from the preview was the prologue scene. I thought wights were supposed to be silent? Instead I'm getting a "Firefly Reavers" sort of vibe from them. It just takes them one notch away from "creepy" and toward "campy" for me.

    EDIT: Also, having just finished A Feast For Crows, I have to ask:
    In the chapter "Back at the Wall," Martin mentions that Feast is half of the story, and A Dance with Dragons is supposed to tell the other half. Does that mean we're stuck with cliffhangers re: Arya, Brienne, and Cersei until book six comes out?

    Those weren't wights (aside from the little girl)

    those were Others

    Wait, are you sure? They had bright blue eyes and looked mostly human. I don't think we saw any others onscreen in the HBO version of the prologue.
    It was an Other. Look at it's sword.

    Aeolusdallas on
  • AeolusdallasAeolusdallas Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Re: Valyrian steel, I got the impression from the books that it was supposed to be darker than normal steel, and significantly lighter. I took a peek at the "official merchandise" page for the series, and it looks like there's just a light grayish pattern printed onto the metal. Oh well. Not a deal-breaker at all for me.

    Valyrian steel is basically a Westeros version of Damascas Steel, right down to the mottled pattern in the blades. The shifting bands should be visable to the naked eye, but you'd need a fairly close shot to see it to full effect, something that's lacking in the views of Ice that we see in the preview they showed.

    It's more than that. It's clearly magical. It never, ever loses it's edge. Even the finest steel we have ever made won't keep an edge for centuries.

    Aeolusdallas on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Re: Valyrian steel, I got the impression from the books that it was supposed to be darker than normal steel, and significantly lighter. I took a peek at the "official merchandise" page for the series, and it looks like there's just a light grayish pattern printed onto the metal. Oh well. Not a deal-breaker at all for me.

    Valyrian steel is basically a Westeros version of Damascas Steel, right down to the mottled pattern in the blades. The shifting bands should be visable to the naked eye, but you'd need a fairly close shot to see it to full effect, something that's lacking in the views of Ice that we see in the preview they showed.

    It's more than that. It's clearly magical. It never, ever loses it's edge. Even the finest steel we have ever made won't keep an edge for centuries.

    It's close enough. Like many things in ASOIAF, it's a real world thing turned up to fantastical.

    shryke on
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    The horn signal for Others still being on the books really doesn't make sense given how they all totally 100% forgot it was real. It be like the army having a code for when goblins attack. Never thought of that before. I always do hate when super important stuff like that slides out of memory, though, and no one comes up with a cannon in the meantime for when it next shows up.

    Xeddicus on
  • AeolusdallasAeolusdallas Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    The horn signal for Others still being on the books really doesn't make sense given how they all totally 100% forgot it was real. It be like the army having a code for when goblins attack. Never thought of that before. I always do hate when super important stuff like that slides out of memory, though, and no one comes up with a cannon in the meantime for when it next shows up.

    They didn't forget it was real. It's just been so long that they kind of don't believe it anymore but as the whole point of their order is to maintain the Wall and keep the Others out, they naturally kept the horn signal. They just never thought they would ever actually need to use it.

    Aeolusdallas on
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    If they didn't forget they're real they're so dumb they all deserve to die. I'll have to dig up some actual quotes, but they seem to express the idea they're not real a few times until they get attacked and then it's "Oh shit, we should have remembered." How the hell do you forgot something like that with a giant reminder sitting right there, built in the shittiest place possible practically...

    Xeddicus on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    they thought they were like dragons, used to exist but not anymore

    Balefuego on
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  • Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    It's not so much that they don't believe the Others and the wights exist, it's that it's been so long that they don't believe they're around now.

    It would be like ICBM warning systems. Would you recognize an incoming nuke? Probably not; it's been so long since those were present, everyday threats, but they still exist, and there are still public addresses signals and announcements for them, but nobody thinks it will ever happen, so we ignore it. Just like the guys in the Night's Watch have been taking care of other, more pressing business for hundreds of years.

    It's the same thing with the dragons. They used to exist, and they used to be fought against, and even killed. You can bet that there are "how to kill dragons" books around, and even people who've read them recently enough to remember some of the details, but that doesn't mean that the dragons aren't going to fuck everything up for a good long while.

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  • AeolusdallasAeolusdallas Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    If they didn't forget they're real they're so dumb they all deserve to die. I'll have to dig up some actual quotes, but they seem to express the idea they're not real a few times until they get attacked and then it's "Oh shit, we should have remembered." How the hell do you forgot something like that with a giant reminder sitting right there, built in the shittiest place possible practically...

    It's been ages since any were seen. So most people think they are extinct. While others are beginning to think they never existed. We are not talking about something that happened a century ago. The wall is thousands of years old.

    Aeolusdallas on
  • ZedarZedar Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    If they didn't forget they're real they're so dumb they all deserve to die. I'll have to dig up some actual quotes, but they seem to express the idea they're not real a few times until they get attacked and then it's "Oh shit, we should have remembered." How the hell do you forgot something like that with a giant reminder sitting right there, built in the shittiest place possible practically...

    It's been ages since any were seen. So most people think they are extinct. While others are beginning to think they never existed. We are not talking about something that happened a century ago. The wall is thousands of years old.

    Jesus hasn't been seen in two thousand years, many doubt he ever existed, yet people still follow archaic rituals he inspired :)

    Zedar on
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  • AeolusdallasAeolusdallas Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Zedar wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    If they didn't forget they're real they're so dumb they all deserve to die. I'll have to dig up some actual quotes, but they seem to express the idea they're not real a few times until they get attacked and then it's "Oh shit, we should have remembered." How the hell do you forgot something like that with a giant reminder sitting right there, built in the shittiest place possible practically...

    It's been ages since any were seen. So most people think they are extinct. While others are beginning to think they never existed. We are not talking about something that happened a century ago. The wall is thousands of years old.

    Jesus hasn't been seen in two thousand years, many doubt he ever existed, yet people still follow archaic rituals he inspired :)

    That's kind of my point. Just because no one has seen an Other in centuries and many no longer believe doesn't mean that they won't have the horn call for "OMG the Others are attacking" I was arguing against the person who thought that still having the Horn call didn't make any sense.

    Aeolusdallas on
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Eh, it's the standard time freeze problem with fantasy. A trillion years pass and the only thing that changes is stuff gets lost/forgotten. Even if it could end the world. The next book will probably have the Others still sitting around not butchering everyone for some reason, though, so they'll have time to dig up everything they forgot.

    Xeddicus on
  • XtarathXtarath Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Eh, it's the standard time freeze problem with fantasy. A trillion years pass and the only thing that changes is stuff gets lost/forgotten. Even if it could end the world. The next book will probably have the Others still sitting around not butchering everyone for some reason, though, so they'll have time to dig up everything they forgot.

    I'm sorry to rain on your hate parade, but the Others do seem to be butchering everyone north of the wall. Also you might remember that the "some reason" that they aren't (yet) south of the Wall is that it's more than just a thousand foot wall of ice.

    Xtarath on
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Yea there seemed to be an entire section of the third book about how the wildlings stirring was because they were being completely slaughtered by the Others

    override367 on
  • AeolusdallasAeolusdallas Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Eh, it's the standard time freeze problem with fantasy. A trillion years pass and the only thing that changes is stuff gets lost/forgotten. Even if it could end the world. The next book will probably have the Others still sitting around not butchering everyone for some reason, though, so they'll have time to dig up everything they forgot.

    Wow how much hateraid did you drink? your "arguments" don't even make sense.

    Aeolusdallas on
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Which part? That they forgot? I may be wrong. That the Others aren't killing everyone? I didn't even give an argument for that, but they can just go around the wall as far as we know, but lets just say there's magic stopping that too. They've given plenty of warning they're coming so far, so I guess they must be waiting for something?

    And if you're claiming my time-freeze problem doesn't make sense, well, ok. If you say so.

    Xeddicus on
  • AeolusdallasAeolusdallas Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Which part? That they forgot? I may be wrong. That the Others aren't killing everyone? I didn't even give an argument for that, but they can just go around the wall as far as we know, but lets just say there's magic stopping that too. They've given plenty of warning they're coming so far, so I guess they must be waiting for something?

    And if you're claiming my time-freeze problem doesn't make sense, well, ok. If you say so.

    How do they go around the wall? It goes sea to sea.

    This really isn't a difficult concept. So I don't see what it is you can't seem to understand.
    I will try and make it simple for you.

    Thousands of years ago there was a threat. The threat was eventually dealt with and the Wall was built. The Night's watch was the group that was formed to deal with the threat. They built the wall and came up with the horn signal and various other rituals to be used in case the threat ever returned. They kept up with them and dealt with the threat whenever is reappeared. Over time the threat diminished. The attacks became infrequent and then stopped altogether. The Night's Watch was left dealing with lesser threats like the Wildlings.

    As time went by and the threat did not reappear the Night's Watch began to have it's funding cut. They dwindled and were no longer capable of maintaining most of their forts and castles. However they still provided some use to the 7 Kingdoms. They were a dumping ground for undesirables and third sons. Plus they contained the Wildings.

    They kept up with all of their rituals including the Others are attacking Horn signal out of shear bureaucratic inertia. But as it has been ages sense any Other was ever seen (so long many are beginning to doubt there ever was a need), no one would logically expect to have to use it.

    The problem is that the threat of the Others is ancient history. People have not faced the threat in many lifetimes. So they don't feel any urgency to boost the Night's Watch and in fact think that the Night's watch's warnings are simple scary stories being told to increase funding for the Night's Watch.
    The Others as far as we the readers can determine are busy wiping out the Wildings and building up their own forces. One assumes they will attack when they are good and ready and the rather pathetic remnant of the Night's Watch will be swept aside. Leaving the war torn 7 Kingdoms in very bad straights indeed.
    Nothing here other than the obvious supernatural element is hard to understand. It's is all very logical.

    As for your "Time Freeze" problem you are assuming that rapid technological growth is inevitable. Even so the area of the 7 Kingdoms went from bronze age during the initial Other invasion to High Medieval int he currant books so it's not like there was no change. What are you suggesting was lost? They know about magic, it was all written down but it doesn't work anymore. They know about Dragons but they are as far as anyone knows extinct. They know about Others but it's been so long that people are beginning to doubt.

    Aeolusdallas on
  • HamurabiHamurabi MiamiRegistered User regular
    edited April 2011
    They sure went crazy with the fake-snow-blower.

    All in all, though, the show looks very promising.

    Hamurabi on
  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Game of Thrones has received a couple of bad reviews.

    And when I say bad reviews, I mean the reviews themselves are bad. "The acting, directing, writing, and production values are all great! But I don't like/understand fantasy, so the show is bad. Plus, what's up with the weather?!"

    link to the WiC article

    Tomanta on
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    The zap2it chick is basically saying "Fantasy sucks." when the series is only like 10% fantasy, then says everything is great except for her 1 (mostly) valid observation:

    ""Game of Thrones" reminds me of the second "Star Wars" trilogy, in which the Hero's Journey was set aside in favor of a complicated tale of political maneuvering and power plays."

    It's not anywhere near crap like the new Star Wars, but it is pretty much political maneuvering and power plays. Which isn't a bad thing, though. So she probably shouldn't be reviewing anything fantasy at all since if there's one iota of it it must be crap.


    The other review has the same problem, she just hates fantasy even though this is barely fantasy. And she can't follow what's going on? The hell? Maybe the show is 100X more confusing than the books, but while who the good and bad guys are can be debated it's never that confusing...

    And the Wall Street Journal review is written by an intellectual snob.

    There has to be something actually wrong with the show other than Renly's casting! Come on reviewers!

    Xeddicus on
  • LorahaloLorahalo Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Perhaps Loras isn't quite fabulous enough?

    Lorahalo on
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  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    They'll probably skip showing him
    take his oil bath
    . If they cut stuff out they should show us things the book didn't. So I'll consider that a flaw.

    Xeddicus on
  • WishpigWishpig Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    "Set in a vaguely Arthurian time and place, the saga involves a complicated set of feuding families vying for power and the right to sit on The Iron Throne. Yes, this is the kind of fantasy that invents realms and thrones and magical petrified dragons’ eggs even though dragons are extinct, and … you can see, you really need to have a taste for this kind of thing. And while the series does have lots of grownup drama, much of it lurid and some very sinister – incest and a plot to kill a small child among them – the entire project has a heart of geek that never lets the rest of us in."

    I want to find this guy. I want to punch this guy. Not a HARD punch, just a sharp jab to the arm, you know the kind that hurts for a few minutes and may leave a slight bruise.

    And then I want to tell him he's a jackass. "The heart of a geek that never lets the rest of us in?" Fucking really?

    Good reviewers put their personal bias aside. If they hate a genre, they have to put themselves in the mind of someone who likes it, and rate it accordingly, OR just not review it.

    That said the dude who wrote the wall street journal review deserves a solid punch in the nose and a spew of vile insults that sting as much as sticks and stones. You can TELL he's a fucking d-bag who gets off acting like he's superior to us oh so lowly "infants".

    Wishpig on
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  • OldSlackerOldSlacker Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Edit: Sorry, wrong thread

    OldSlacker on
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Wrong thread?

    Xeddicus on
  • OldSlackerOldSlacker Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Well, I do want to punch that reviewer with a big green imaginary fist, so...

    OldSlacker on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    This is why you limit yourself to reviewers who have proven trustworthy. Sepinwall, Fienberg, Linda Holmes at NPR (though she tends to focus on reality for reasons that make sense if you read TWoP from like 2001 - 2007).

    enlightenedbum on
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  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    TWoP is a cesspool

    avclub is so much better

    Balefuego on
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    It is since its founders sold it and left and most of the good recappers bailed with them.

    enlightenedbum on
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  • Tiger BurningTiger Burning Dig if you will, the pictureRegistered User, SolidSaints Tube regular
    edited April 2011
    Big review/primer for the show on Salon. But jeez, spoilers. Like, all of the spoilers.

    Tiger Burning on
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  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Just when you think "We are only a week out. Surely there is nothing else that they can throw into a trailer" comes this trailer with... mostly all new stuff.

    Poison

    Tomanta on
  • WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    But this is fantasy, so you’re not supposed to ask. You can have kings and queens and keeps and knights and horses and extinct dire wolves and winters that last ten years and whatever else there is, just because the author said so.

    THIS IS HOW ALL FICTION WORKS. Gah.

    Wassermelone on
  • YougottawannaYougottawanna Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Oh man the red keep looks sexy in that trailer

    Yougottawanna on
  • Andrew_JayAndrew_Jay Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Tomanta wrote: »
    Game of Thrones has received a couple of bad reviews.

    And when I say bad reviews, I mean the reviews themselves are bad. "The acting, directing, writing, and production values are all great! But I don't like/understand fantasy, so the show is bad. Plus, what's up with the weather?!"

    link to the WiC article
    Yes, this is the kind of fantasy that invents realms and thrones and magical petrified dragons’ eggs . . .
    Oh man, fantasy that invents stuff? I hate that kind of fantasy.

    Andrew_Jay on
  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    This reminds me of the way people were like "I hate how Children of Men never explained why people couldnt have children anymore."

    What does she want? Meteorological charts? Forecasts? The people of the world dont know how or why it works, so why would Martin include an explanation?

    People like that for me just have no concept of fiction, and her love of Dancing with the Stars pretty much closes the book on that review.

    I just love that this is probably the least fantastical fantasy out there, and these guys are complaining about its exclusionary geekyness. And since when is violence and sex the sole realm of geeks?

    Prohass on
  • KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Bet these people were pissed that no one explained how the Inception briefcase worked, or how lightsabers know when to stop.

    KalTorak on
  • LorahaloLorahalo Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    People complained about lightsabers stopping? Did anyone stop to think that MAYBE it has a fucking button?

    Lorahalo on
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  • Mortal SkyMortal Sky queer punk hedge witchRegistered User regular
    edited April 2011
    People obviously don't understand that it's a plasma cutter of immense quality, and simply has a very well defined and incredibly strong magnetic field surrounding the blade.

    I figured that one out myself, btw. And it turned out to be mostly right.

    Mortal Sky on
  • YougottawannaYougottawanna Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Sex and violence in a normal tv show = gritty, real, courageous

    Sex and violence in a fantasy book/movie/show = juvenile wish fulfillment

    Yougottawanna on
This discussion has been closed.