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[DnD 4E Discussion] Heroes of Shadow. Dhampyr Vryloka Vampire now possible.

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Posts

  • MeldingMelding Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Haha, got it uploaded and then it crashed loosing all record of uploading it. Classic!

    I honestly laughed for a good minute.

  • Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous WALK 3X FASTER New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    So, what I'm hearing is that someone hacked the old CB and found that most of the DS content was in the data files, but just disabled (and somewhat unfinished, I think?).

    zaku.png
    Steam PSN: DerWaffleMous Origin: DerWaffleMous Bnet: WaffleMous#1483
  • RiusRius Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Yeehaw full Executioner article let's see what they failed to fix!

    http://wizards.com/dnd/downloads/dragon/393/393_Assassin.pdf

    Edits:

    1) Base class is proficient with simple one-handed melee, military one-handed melee and simple ranged as before. Now, base proficiencies include the Garrote, Blowgun and Bola... color me excited so far.
    2 Base class skills now include Intimidate, lol. Finally.
    3) Still cloth, leather, and light shield. Boo @ light shield.
    4) Poisoner's Kit now has a price; 10 gp.

    Ok, all Assassins get Deadly Strike at 1st level. It's an At-Will Weapon Attack power, Standard action, must be used with a one-handed melee weapon. Dex vs AC, 1[w] + 1d8 + Dex damage, can be used as a melee basic attack. Looks so far like this power replaces the Melee Training-esque feature and the +1d6-damage-per-attack-with-a-weapon feature while enforcing the idea of using a one-handed weapon. I can live with that, in fact, I applaud it.

    Guild Choices:

    Red Scales:
    Spoiler:

    League of Whispers:
    Spoiler:

    Assassin's Strike is unchanged except for this;
    Special: Nothing but a short or an extended rest can allow you to regain the use of this power.

    That wording is still open to abuse with certain feats and features; it'll probably get clarified again at some point.

    Quick Swap is still fucked... actually, it's more fucked now than it was in the playtest. It ends in a comma; perhaps someone forgot some sentences there.

    Unseen Spearhead is gone, gone, gone. I figured they'd change it; didn't figure they'd 86 it. Oh well, it was a clumsy mess anyway.

    Death Attack reworded; only works with Assassin & Assassin PP powers that deal damage.

    Nimble Drop and Ghost of the Rooftops nerfed to Encounter powers; fuuuuuuuck. Well, they were pretty overpowered.

  • Kid PresentableKid Presentable Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Its actually working really well for me right now. No complaints from a performance standpoint. I am however really disappointed that they don't even have the race errata for things like Dragonborn, and they don't even have their own DDi content included like the Earth Domain for War Priests.

  • Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous WALK 3X FASTER New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Rius wrote: »
    Yeehaw full Executioner article let's see what they failed to fix!

    http://wizards.com/dnd/downloads/dragon/393/393_Assassin.pdf

    Edits:

    Base class is proficient with simple one-handed melee, military one-handed melee and simple ranged as before. Now, base proficiencies include the Garrote, Blowgun and Bola... color me excited so far.

    Base class skills now include Intimidate, lol. Finally.

    Huh, that's actually pretty different. No more extra damage dice to any attack made.

    zaku.png
    Steam PSN: DerWaffleMous Origin: DerWaffleMous Bnet: WaffleMous#1483
  • RiusRius Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Plenty of edits to my post about Heroic tier changes; i'm going to read the rest quietly now.

    Yeah, Der Waffle Mous, they stripped away and changed that to prevent abuse (brought about by multiattack powers, how original).

  • RiusRius Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Ooh, Attack Finesse is now a level 11 class feature; +4 bonus to weapon damage rolls, increases to +8 at 21st level. I guess this combines with Deadly Strike to complete the replacement of Attack Finesse...


    Assume a Rapier, compare old Attack Finesse at 1st level to Deadly Strike + new Attack Finesse at 11th level.

    H: 1d8+1d6+Dex vs 1d8+1d6+Dex
    P: 1d8+2d6+Dex vs 1d8+1d6+Dex+4
    E: 2d8+3d6+Dex vs 2d8+1d6+Dex+8

    Pretty close... new version does more average damage, old version does more maximized damage.

    Does "You can use this power as a melee basic attack" mean the power is a melee basic attack for things like Deft Blade?

  • RiusRius Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Ok, still no Feats, which is disappointing. Paragon and Epic tiers seem largely unchanged. Some more random thoughts;

    Deadly Strike being melee only weakens the assassin's ranged damage, Unless you're League of Whispers for Quick Shot. But then you lose Garrote Strangle... tough call.

    Quick Shot is ranged 5, didn't notice that at first. Still, the old one was effectively Ranged 1, so that's a buff in addition to the damage buff.

    Precision Dart lost the +4 accuracy bonus but gained +1[w] damage; it's still Weapon vs Dex so that's not a bad trade at all.

    New build gets absolutely nothing at all at 7th and 17th levels, since you get all 4 of your at-wills up front. Might be the first class that's built that way.

    SHADOW COFFIN is fucking GONE! RAAAAAAAGGGGGEEEEEEEEEE.

  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    At-wills that do [w]+d6 are pretty slick. It is a crying fucking shame garrotes are 2-handed, really.

    I guess you could...somehow...take the ED that lets you use weapons as if you were one size larger, and use 1handed garrotes?

    *tries to make it work*

    And yes, Rius, Deadly Strike just sort of 'is' a Melee Basic Attack for you, so any feats that affect your MBAs affect it.

    I learned this with Seeker, and their plethora of 'This is an RBA' powers.

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  • RiusRius Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I love Deadly Strike; it accomplishes what it needed to, which was encourage Executioners to put down the Executioner's Axe. With a Rapier, which doesn't cost a feat now, 2d8+Dex damage as an MBA is totally fine with me. It's about as good as a Rogue... about as good.

    The Guild at-wills really are special attacks, now, though; they simply do not do enough damage to be used all the time.

    I can get behind this class, really. It's still flavorful and most of it's components are still in place. Average damage is a bit higher but max damage is lower; you'll suffer some when you crit compared to other strikers.

    Rapier + Light Shield, keep a Garrote handy for special targets, not that you can gracefully switch to it. I wish I could have Precision Dart and Garrote Strangle =( Actually, you can't gracefully switch to the Blowgun either; it's also two-handed. lol.

  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    The Garrote one is pretty awesome from an RP point of view. You can just fucking strangle some dude to death and he can't call for help. If ever there was a solo player campaign to be made, this guy would be pretty good at it.

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  • RiusRius Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I doubt I'd ever use any poison that isn't Id Moss or Insanity Mist so I don't really need Poisoned Dagger or Precision Dart. I like the class, I just think it's implementation doesn't match up with some of my desires.

  • HorseshoeHorseshoe Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    i'm glad that the owlbear is the cover girl for the essentials monster vault

    much more photogenic than orcus

    dmsigsmallek3.jpg
  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Hachface wrote: »
    Brainleech wrote: »
    This is a dumb question but is getting Essentials the thing to get now to play once again?

    The Essentials products are very attractive: relatively cheap, well-written, and simple. I would recommend the Essentials line to new players for sure.

    If you already have the Player's Handbook, though, it's probably not worth buying into the Essentials line, except maybe the Rules Compendium (handy reference that incorporates a lot of errata) and the Monster Vault (classic D&D monsters with better design than the ones in the Monster Manual).



    But now the next part is the class books? since all I own is the arcane one are the new ones the thing to get if I want to play a dragonborn paladin?

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  • angrylinuxgeekangrylinuxgeek Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    so even at 7:30 AM the CB2.0 was still slow as balls.

    and it turns out Themes were already in the old CB! WotC lied; CB died.

    sQwJu.png
  • DortmunderDortmunder Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    So glad I let my DDI subscription expire earlier this year...but disappointed for WotC and DnD in general :(

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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I just realized that there are two different options for sheet output in the new builder.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. On Hiatus!

    Any gamers in the Danville, PA area? PM me if you're interested in some tabletop gaming.
  • ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Yep. Regular or Essential.

    Proud member of Unrepentant Gaming! Pantless gaming at its finest.
    Check us out in Neverwinter.

  • Mithrandir86Mithrandir86 Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    So, I won't be resubing for a while, most likely.

    Spoiler:
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    There's no way to upload a portrait anymore, huh?

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. On Hiatus!

    Any gamers in the Danville, PA area? PM me if you're interested in some tabletop gaming.
  • InfidelInfidel Too easy. PiltoverRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    No, but you get the built-in portraits on every page whether you like it or not!

    TwitchTV channel: OrokosPA check.php?c=OrokosPA
    Play D&D 4e? :: Check out Orokos and upload your Character Builder sheet! :: Orokos Dice Roller
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  • InfidelInfidel Too easy. PiltoverRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Damn, it is as I feared, I don't have Silverlight even on the Windows machines on campus.

    Well, it's probably moot since I'm not really going to be using it looks like.

    TwitchTV channel: OrokosPA check.php?c=OrokosPA
    Play D&D 4e? :: Check out Orokos and upload your Character Builder sheet! :: Orokos Dice Roller
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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic I've Done Worse Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Originally I was rather upset over the changes they were making. Just when I start getting to really play and liking the direction and everything.....

    Now I am past that and in a state of dazzled awe at the incompetence.

  • HorseshoeHorseshoe Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    DA you seriously summed it up there.

    dmsigsmallek3.jpg
  • InfidelInfidel Too easy. PiltoverRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I don't know what to do about DDI and Orokos quite yet.

    I might wait for an export feature, but that could very possibly be never and effectively the death of Orokos sheets, so that might not be a good idea.

    I could get something working now, but it would take more effort and also require users to install a program in order to get the sheets online. The rough process would be download my application, run it, then start up the online CB. It would capture your character saves, and would send them to Orokos as well with a prompt. You would login to your Orokos user when you start up the application, could have it saved for starting up without any prompting.

    A tray icon that pops up "I see you saved a CB character, send to your Orokos account (userid)? Yes/No" or such.

    But that unfortunately requires an application which may deter some users.

    edit: Actually, it could potentially be a browser plugin, but I'd have to look into the details more.

    TwitchTV channel: OrokosPA check.php?c=OrokosPA
    Play D&D 4e? :: Check out Orokos and upload your Character Builder sheet! :: Orokos Dice Roller
    The PhalLounge :: Chat board for Critical Failures IRC! :: #CriticalFailures and #mafia on irc.slashnet.org
  • HorseshoeHorseshoe Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    You could leave it as is for now for those of us who like your stuff and see what happens?

    dmsigsmallek3.jpg
  • InfidelInfidel Too easy. PiltoverRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Nothing will be going away, it will support the old CB indefinitely.

    edit: hurf durf why would anyone remove functionality that is just fine olol woops

    TwitchTV channel: OrokosPA check.php?c=OrokosPA
    Play D&D 4e? :: Check out Orokos and upload your Character Builder sheet! :: Orokos Dice Roller
    The PhalLounge :: Chat board for Critical Failures IRC! :: #CriticalFailures and #mafia on irc.slashnet.org
  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    For anyone that cares, the newest issue of ImagineFX is a D&D special that examines how Dungeons and Dragons influenced fantasy artwork in general.

    Friend Code: 1590-5696-7916
    Friend Safari Type: Rock
  • HachfaceHachface Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    For anyone that cares, the newest issue of ImagineFX is a D&D special that examines how Dungeons and Dragons influenced fantasy artwork in general.

    If nothing else, TSR/WotC (and the RPG industry as a whole) has given a ton of fantasy artists work, which is probably the most important influence of all.

    Tony DiTerlizzi's post-gaming art career has been particularly impressive.

  • QuetzatcoatlQuetzatcoatl Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Rius wrote: »
    Yeehaw full Executioner article let's see what they failed to fix!

    http://wizards.com/dnd/downloads/dragon/393/393_Assassin.pdf

    Edits:

    Base class is proficient with simple one-handed melee, military one-handed melee and simple ranged as before. Now, base proficiencies include the Garrote, Blowgun and Bola... color me excited so far.

    Base class skills now include Intimidate, lol. Finally.

    Huh, that's actually pretty different. No more extra damage dice to any attack made.

    This is exactly why I hate the essentials, they leave the original assassin class a broken mess and implement all the improvements to a new class.

  • RiusRius Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Actually, my original excitement about the final Executioner build has soured; I'm now of the opinion that both the Assassin and Executioner are regretfully wasted efforts.

    Edit: But you do make a fair point; some classes have been left in the dust or simply superseded by Essentials builds.

  • descdesc the '87 stick up kids Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    So I own unplayed boardgames and unplayed RPGs and am forever dragging my feet on this 3:16 campaign starting, and yet I am coveting, flat out Ten Commandments coveting Gamma World now that I've read the reviews.

    I know I am behind the times, but anyone here done any quick one-offs or mini-campaigns yet?

  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic I've Done Worse Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Yea, I don't see them going back and fixing the "real" druid, which is a shame.

    Though our last game just had a giant fight full of minions. During that fight Mr Druid finally decides he should be able to handle hordes of minions but found none of his powers were geared for it. While the Monk and the Sorcerer each took out over a dozen minions.

  • DenadaDenada Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    desc wrote: »
    So I own unplayed boardgames and unplayed RPGs and am forever dragging my feet on this 3:16 campaign starting, and yet I am coveting, flat out Ten Commandments coveting Gamma World now that I've read the reviews.

    I know I am behind the times, but anyone here done any quick one-offs or mini-campaigns yet?

    EvilBadman has just started a Gamma World PbP, so you can follow that if you're interested. The only other impressions I've heard of it are the ones posted by Gabe and the ones in the Gamma World discussion thread.

  • descdesc the '87 stick up kids Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Denada wrote: »
    desc wrote: »
    So I own unplayed boardgames and unplayed RPGs and am forever dragging my feet on this 3:16 campaign starting, and yet I am coveting, flat out Ten Commandments coveting Gamma World now that I've read the reviews.

    I know I am behind the times, but anyone here done any quick one-offs or mini-campaigns yet?

    EvilBadman has just started a Gamma World PbP, so you can follow that if you're interested. The only other impressions I've heard of it are the ones posted by Gabe and the ones in the Gamma World discussion thread.

    Oh jeez, didn't even see either of those. Thanks for the heads up!

  • Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous WALK 3X FASTER New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Rius wrote: »
    Yeehaw full Executioner article let's see what they failed to fix!

    http://wizards.com/dnd/downloads/dragon/393/393_Assassin.pdf

    Edits:

    Base class is proficient with simple one-handed melee, military one-handed melee and simple ranged as before. Now, base proficiencies include the Garrote, Blowgun and Bola... color me excited so far.

    Base class skills now include Intimidate, lol. Finally.

    Huh, that's actually pretty different. No more extra damage dice to any attack made.

    This is exactly why I hate the essentials, they leave the original assassin class a broken mess and implement all the improvements to a new class.
    Meh, the horribleness of the old assassin is highly exaggerated.

    zaku.png
    Steam PSN: DerWaffleMous Origin: DerWaffleMous Bnet: WaffleMous#1483
  • RiusRius Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    This is exactly why I hate the essentials, they leave the original assassin class a broken mess and implement all the improvements to a new class.

    Meh, the horribleness of the old assassin is highly exaggerated.

    I played an Assassin for eight months in a party with a (not even particularly well optimized) Sorcerer|Rogue and a Warlock; trust me, they are horrible.

  • riven5riven5 Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Meh, the horribleness of the old assassin is highly exaggerated.

    I've found that the horribleness of classes is often exaggerated. My favorite example is how Warlocks are considered weak sauce on the CharOp forums because they don't output the DPR of the Twin Strike frostcheese Ranger. Of course in actual practice most players would never actually notice a genuine lack of damage, and even if you did you would be able to say "Yeah, but I can also control the shit out of enemies while killing them."

    Which is why I have vowed to never return to the CharOp forums. Tis a silly place.

  • CounterspinCounterspin Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Warlock are obviously inferior strikers, even in unoptimized games, and their controller elements come nowhere near making up for it.

  • Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous WALK 3X FASTER New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Rius wrote: »
    This is exactly why I hate the essentials, they leave the original assassin class a broken mess and implement all the improvements to a new class.

    Meh, the horribleness of the old assassin is highly exaggerated.

    I played an Assassin for eight months in a party with a (not even particularly well optimized) Sorcerer|Rogue and a Warlock; trust me, they are horrible.

    I'm playing one right now with a sorceror in the party with barely any healing, and I'm doing perfectly fine.

    zaku.png
    Steam PSN: DerWaffleMous Origin: DerWaffleMous Bnet: WaffleMous#1483
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