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[DnD 4E Discussion] Heroes of Shadow. Dhampyr Vryloka Vampire now possible.

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Posts

  • JishianJishian ◥▶◀◤ Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Jishian wrote: »
    Aegof wrote: »
    Jishian wrote: »
    There's nothing stopping you from reflavoring a dwarf into a halfling (he's a slim and beardless dwarf, there you go) if you don't want to houserule anything.

    I think you're missing the point. It's not "how do we fix this?" That's easy. There's lots of solutions. It's "this imbalance should not exist."

    It's not an imbalance like dwarves having speed 5 and elves having speed 7, it's just a few limited options for a few unorthodox class combinations. I think having some sort of monkey grip feat to enable it would be fine, but I don't think small characters should be able to wield huge weapons by default. That's just my opinion though, feel free to carry on.
    Dwarves only having a speed of 5 doesn't disqualify them from using basic things in the PHB, though. That's simply a lower number, it's not a prohibition against options. They don't make a great choice for building a character to be a speed demon (though they do make a fun one if you like irony), but they have access to the same options on that front as everyone else does.

    Just like not having a racial bonus to Cha doesn't stop a Half Orc from playing a Bard, etc.

    But you simply cannot play a halfling with a greataxe, regardless of how suboptimal it would or would not be.

    Is it really that big a deal in a game where you can basically do anything? If you want the flavor, use a battle axe. If you absolutely can't live without it, just do it anyway, using one of the billion solutions. If it's an RPGA thing and they won't let you, then you're probably anal about rules to the point where you shouldn't inflict yourself on other people anyway.

    Besides, it could make a good character quirk. Maybe your halfling has a greataxe strapped to his back and he's convinced it's cursed because he can never wield it, so he's traveling the world in hopes of finding someone who can remove the curse/teach him how to use it.

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  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Seriously, again and what I hope is for the last time: the issue isn't we are not capable of fixing this with houserules. The issue is this bullshit exists in the first place. Halflings cannot use large weapons and gain nothing for this sacrifice. It is a quid with no quo. If I have 5 apples and you have 4 apples, why did you make a Halfling who can only hold 4 apples? Because you're a fucking silly goose, that's why.

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  • HorseshoeHorseshoe Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    damn right you are

    fuck halflings and gnomes

    good on you, wotc devs

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  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    What about Kenku and Goblins, Horseshoe? Surely you have a soft spot for Deekin?

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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Kobolds, shoe

    Think of the kobolds

    won't someone think of the kobolds

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  • HorseshoeHorseshoe Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    oh i think of them

    i think of running them back to wherever they came from with a pitchfork

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  • JishianJishian ◥▶◀◤ Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Well you gain the ability (as was mentioned) to move through large enemy squares, whether or not you feel that's valuable is up to you. I believe you get more cover from smaller terrain than larger creatures as well. Saying you gain no benefit is a personal view.

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  • LitejediLitejedi New York CityRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    streever wrote: »
    Litejedi wrote: »
    Really I would just be happy if they would allow small characters some sort of small staff. I wouldn't mind if it did 1d4 damage, as it stands a small stick of the same make and density is impossible to hit people with as a halfling. The comprehension may not be full, so let's make it clear.

    Fourth edition does not let small characters use sticks to hit enemies as weapons. Sticks!

    "Ugbug find stick to hit boar with"
    "No no Ugbug, you not able use stick, it too large"
    "Ugbug invent shortbow then, need weapon with small keyword"

    Actually, that isn't true. You can definitely use a stick--or a fullblade, for that matter. It counts as an "improvised" weapon. You can use a pipe section or a rock or a chair. Your possibilities are limitless.

    I second the "Why do people care so much" question. I mean, was there a whole bevy of fullblade wielding halfling avengers that people wanted to make? Who actually wants to be a halfling with a 7 foot sword?

    Before someone says, "Don't get 'realist' on us", honestly ask yourself if you have ever wanted to play a 3 foot tall person with a 7 foot sword.

    I'm fully aware that this is the case. I was referring to the actual weapon though, not some improvised weapon that has no "staff" properties, such as proficiency etc.

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  • JishianJishian ◥▶◀◤ Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    The real shame isn't the sobfest and murdered babies resulting from halflings not being able to use fullblades, it's that Minotaurs can't ride dogs as mounts.

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  • HorseshoeHorseshoe Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    the real shame is the existence of halflings

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  • AegofAegof Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Jishian wrote: »
    Is it really that big a deal in a game where you can basically do anything?

    Well, anything but give a Kobold a greatspear. But no, it's not a big deal. It's not a third edition Wizard Problem kind of thing, it's just an annoying, out-of-place rule that doesn't have much of a purpose.

    But 4e is pretty well designed so these little flaws stand out.

    Also, I'd like to apologize to the thread for accidentally dropping the match into the powder keg this morning. Didn't expect a flippant comment about Smallness to do all this.

    I'm providing ambience.
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  • HorseshoeHorseshoe Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Aegof wrote: »
    Also, I'd like to apologize to the thread for accidentally dropping the match into the powder keg this morning. Didn't expect a flippant comment about Smallness to do all this.

    Aegof, making the inferiority of small sized races known to others is no crime.

    dmsigsmallek3.jpg
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  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Horseshoe wrote: »
    Aegof wrote: »
    Also, I'd like to apologize to the thread for accidentally dropping the match into the powder keg this morning. Didn't expect a flippant comment about Smallness to do all this.

    Aegof, making the inferiority of small sized races known to others is no crime.

    If being sizeist is wrong, I don't want to be right.

    1133965-1.png?1297145727
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  • JishianJishian ◥▶◀◤ Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Aegof wrote: »
    Jishian wrote: »
    Is it really that big a deal in a game where you can basically do anything?

    Well, anything but give a Kobold a greatspear. But no, it's not a big deal. It's not a third edition Wizard Problem kind of thing, it's just an annoying, out-of-place rule that doesn't have much of a purpose.

    But 4e is pretty well designed so these little flaws stand out.

    Also, I'd like to apologize to the thread for accidentally dropping the match into the powder keg this morning. Didn't expect a flippant comment about Smallness to do all this.

    The responsibility of engaging in a discussion of this scale is far too big for a halfling to wield.

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  • LitejediLitejedi New York CityRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Jishian wrote: »
    Aegof wrote: »
    Jishian wrote: »
    There's nothing stopping you from reflavoring a dwarf into a halfling (he's a slim and beardless dwarf, there you go) if you don't want to houserule anything.

    I think you're missing the point. It's not "how do we fix this?" That's easy. There's lots of solutions. It's "this imbalance should not exist."

    It's not an imbalance like dwarves having speed 5 and elves having speed 7, it's just a few limited options for a few unorthodox class combinations. I think having some sort of monkey grip feat to enable it would be fine, but I don't think small characters should be able to wield huge weapons by default. That's just my opinion though, feel free to carry on.

    If they would let a halfling wield a FRULLblade which did 1d10, +3 proficiency, high crit, and was a heavy blade, I'd be excited! It could be 3 inches long for all I care. Similarly, if a halfling could use a STLAFF which is a 1d6, +2 proficiency, staff weapon which allowed the use of feats like staff fighting, I would also be happy too! It could even look like nothing at all.

    As an FYI this is precisely what they did in 3.5 and is precisely what they do, NOW for large and greater things, and for tiny and smaller things. The only thing that has an entirely arbitrary and nonsensical set of rules on it is small characters.

    Edit: I just think it's a moronic rule, is all.

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I remember when 4e first hit and people were complaining about Dwarfs being medium creatures.

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    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
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  • HorseshoeHorseshoe Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Pinfeldorf wrote: »
    Horseshoe wrote: »
    Aegof wrote: »
    Also, I'd like to apologize to the thread for accidentally dropping the match into the powder keg this morning. Didn't expect a flippant comment about Smallness to do all this.

    Aegof, making the inferiority of small sized races known to others is no crime.

    If being sizeist is wrong, I don't want to be right.

    piney being racist against small sized creatures

    well that's normal

    but sizeist?

    you're a monster

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  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Shut up and take your Enzyte, Bob.

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  • UltaruneUltarune Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    soxbox wrote: »
    Being small means you can ride things that are size medium.
    In my games, absolutely.

    Officially, in 4E, only Large and larger critters can be mounts. It's a pain in the tuckus. Used to be 95% of the small characters rode around everywhere, while their larger companions had to leave mounts behind most of the time. Not so in 4E. In 4E everyone's hosed equally.

    Where are you getting that only large creatures can be mounts? The only ruling I was aware of and can find in the compendium is that mounts have to be a size larger than you, which is medium if you are small. In addition, there are some mounts which are medium sized which can be rode by medium characters even.

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  • TorgoTorgo Registered User
    edited January 2011
    Ultarune wrote: »
    soxbox wrote: »
    Being small means you can ride things that are size medium.
    In my games, absolutely.

    Officially, in 4E, only Large and larger critters can be mounts. It's a pain in the tuckus. Used to be 95% of the small characters rode around everywhere, while their larger companions had to leave mounts behind most of the time. Not so in 4E. In 4E everyone's hosed equally.

    Where are you getting that only large creatures can be mounts? The only ruling I was aware of and can find in the compendium is that mounts have to be a size larger than you, which is medium if you are small. In addition, there are some mounts which are medium sized which can be rode by medium characters even.

    The size required for mounts and the medium mounts for small creatures was addressed in an errata.

    History is a spoiler for the future. (Me on Twitter)
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  • mugginnsmugginns Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Horseshoe wrote: »
    damn right you are

    fuck halflings and gnomes

    good on you, wotc devs

    no fuck you

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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic I've Done Worse Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    mugginns wrote: »
    I always wonder at the super in-depth rules discussion... of course you want a great basis for your game, but RPGs aren't by their nature competitive, so why not just house rule whatever you want? It isn't like Magic or Warhams... just do whatever you want! It is a co-op game where you play a story.

    There are a number of reasons to be considered when making house rules. One is simply the inconvenience of it, you have to explain them each time you get a new player (and you have to remember the "real" rules to be able to explain them.) One is that when you come someplace like this and have a discussion you will have differing assumptions and the shared experience will be less strong. Finally there is just the issue that sometimes personal feelings can get in the way of really thinking clearly about a rule and what it is doing. Perhaps it has subtle effects you missed and what not.

    For example, one group I play with uses a "Defender" house rule. What it amounts to is you have to beat the targets AC/Fort/Ref/Will in order to hit. The explanation for this was that it didn't make sense to the DM that you could just equal somebodies defense to hit them. This is the same group that complains about how combats can drag on too long....
    Jishian wrote: »
    Well you gain the ability (as was mentioned) to move through large enemy squares, whether or not you feel that's valuable is up to you. I believe you get more cover from smaller terrain than larger creatures as well. Saying you gain no benefit is a personal view.

    That ability comes at a cost in that large creatures can just walk right the fuck over you. So when we're talking about weapon using small folk being disadvantaged this doesn't help things. They lack one of the most basic Defender abilities of being able to block enemy movement through their square is a huge penalty. I think it moves "Halfling Paladin" from reasonable to completely unplayable if your DM actually uses those rules.

    Trogg wrote: »
    Not as positive as AIDS and cancer, but positive nonetheless.

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  • brain operatorbrain operator Registered User
    edited January 2011
    Ultarune wrote: »
    soxbox wrote: »
    Being small means you can ride things that are size medium.
    In my games, absolutely.

    Officially, in 4E, only Large and larger critters can be mounts. It's a pain in the tuckus. Used to be 95% of the small characters rode around everywhere, while their larger companions had to leave mounts behind most of the time. Not so in 4E. In 4E everyone's hosed equally.

    Where are you getting that only large creatures can be mounts? The only ruling I was aware of and can find in the compendium is that mounts have to be a size larger than you, which is medium if you are small. In addition, there are some mounts which are medium sized which can be rode by medium characters even.
    Maybe it's been overruled by now - which would be great - but my DMG specifically says Mounts have to be at least Large (as well as a size larger than their rider). I can't give you an exact quote or a page number since I don't have access to my books, but I looked it up yesterday. It's definitely in there.

    As a corollary, regular wolves in the MM don't have the (mount) tag - being Medium - while their Large Dire cousins do.

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  • JishianJishian ◥▶◀◤ Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    mugginns wrote: »
    I always wonder at the super in-depth rules discussion... of course you want a great basis for your game, but RPGs aren't by their nature competitive, so why not just house rule whatever you want? It isn't like Magic or Warhams... just do whatever you want! It is a co-op game where you play a story.

    There are a number of reasons to be considered when making house rules. One is simply the inconvenience of it, you have to explain them each time you get a new player (and you have to remember the "real" rules to be able to explain them.) One is that when you come someplace like this and have a discussion you will have differing assumptions and the shared experience will be less strong. Finally there is just the issue that sometimes personal feelings can get in the way of really thinking clearly about a rule and what it is doing. Perhaps it has subtle effects you missed and what not.

    For example, one group I play with uses a "Defender" house rule. What it amounts to is you have to beat the targets AC/Fort/Ref/Will in order to hit. The explanation for this was that it didn't make sense to the DM that you could just equal somebodies defense to hit them. This is the same group that complains about how combats can drag on too long....
    Jishian wrote: »
    Well you gain the ability (as was mentioned) to move through large enemy squares, whether or not you feel that's valuable is up to you. I believe you get more cover from smaller terrain than larger creatures as well. Saying you gain no benefit is a personal view.

    That ability comes at a cost in that large creatures can just walk right the fuck over you. So when we're talking about weapon using small folk being disadvantaged this doesn't help things. They lack one of the most basic Defender abilities of being able to block enemy movement through their square is a huge penalty. I think it moves "Halfling Paladin" from reasonable to completely unplayable if your DM actually uses those rules.

    Psh. Just makes it easier to flank them! It's a benefit, really! :)

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  • Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo A lemon squeezed in the salty fist of Poseidon Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    I remember when 4e first hit and people were complaining about Dwarfs being medium creatures.

    3e.

    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
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  • angrylinuxgeekangrylinuxgeek Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Aegof wrote: »
    Jishian wrote: »
    Is it really that big a deal in a game where you can basically do anything?

    Well, anything but give a Kobold a greatspear. But no, it's not a big deal. It's not a third edition Wizard Problem kind of thing, it's just an annoying, out-of-place rule that doesn't have much of a purpose.

    But 4e is pretty well designed so these little flaws stand out.

    Also, I'd like to apologize to the thread for accidentally dropping the match into the powder keg this morning. Didn't expect a flippant comment about Smallness to do all this.

    you need not apologize for causing a discussion in a discussion forum

    sQwJu.png
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  • AriviaArivia Registered User
    edited January 2011
    Mojo_Jojo wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    I remember when 4e first hit and people were complaining about Dwarfs being medium creatures.

    3e.

    3.5, actually, I think.

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  • GlalGlal Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    3.yourmom

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  • AriviaArivia Registered User
    edited January 2011
    3.thatwasterrible

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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    So last night one of my PCs got himself addicted some of the drugs from this gang they're working to push out of their territory.

    Now I need to figure out what addiction looks like. I'm thinking disease progression, but he's not affected by the negatives while hes on the drug and can only move toward cured by abstaining for long periods and making endurance checks.

    Until he gets clean, though, he's Thaggtoo the Mul speed freak.

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  • InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    ONE DOLLAR, BOB

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  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    So last night one of my PCs got himself addicted some of the drugs from this gang they're working to push out of their territory.

    Now I need to figure out what addiction looks like. I'm thinking disease progression, but he's not affected by the negatives while hes on the drug and can only move toward cured by abstaining for long periods and making endurance checks.

    Until he gets clean, though, he's Thaggtoo the Mul speed freak.

    I'd just do it as a disease, but focus on the mental aspects (give minuses to INT/WIS, or Will defense). I might consider extra-severe mental penalties and a plus to some physical stat (DEX if it's an upper), but probably not.

    And then you could make him roll Insight on his disease cure checks rather than Endurance, like some of the curses etc I've read in third-party 4e stuff.

    I figure I could take a bear.
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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    poshniallo wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    So last night one of my PCs got himself addicted some of the drugs from this gang they're working to push out of their territory.

    Now I need to figure out what addiction looks like. I'm thinking disease progression, but he's not affected by the negatives while hes on the drug and can only move toward cured by abstaining for long periods and making endurance checks.

    Until he gets clean, though, he's Thaggtoo the Mul speed freak.

    I'd just do it as a disease, but focus on the mental aspects (give minuses to INT/WIS, or Will defense). I might consider extra-severe mental penalties and a plus to some physical stat (DEX if it's an upper), but probably not.

    And then you could make him roll Insight on his disease cure checks rather than Endurance, like some of the curses etc I've read in third-party 4e stuff.
    Well, the drug itself has the effect of burning a healing surge, giving a +10 bonus to the next initiative check and a +1 to speed until their next short rest. There was a fort attack against him at the start of the next rest, which hit, addicting him. So now whenever he's not under the effect of the drug he's instead at a -5 Initiative penalty and -1 to his speed.

    I'm thinking that continued use will result in extra attacks that push him into worse withdrawl symptoms (-10 Initiative, -2 speed and such). A Will or Reflex defense penalty could fit in there nicely, though.

    The background for these drugs is that they are primal elixirs of some sort with addictive qualities. This one specifically is the powdered essence of a wind spirit. The gang they're rousting (for another gang) has been selling them. There are enemies that are obviously on one or more of the drugs that are available.

    I'm really reluctant to be doing attribute draining as withdrawl symptoms. I'd rather go after less intrinsic stats so as to avoid a ton of math at the table. Straight penalties to Initiative or defenses are easier to account for than taking away a point of Dex.

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  • Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo A lemon squeezed in the salty fist of Poseidon Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Arivia wrote: »
    Mojo_Jojo wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    I remember when 4e first hit and people were complaining about Dwarfs being medium creatures.

    3e.

    3.5, actually, I think.

    No, it was 3e. I went and checked. And it did cause lots of yarble gargle, I remember it all too well. That and dwarves being allowed to be wizards.

    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I just came up with another punny Gamma World enemy (that, as a bonus for this thread, is vampire-inspired):

    Lesser Dampwire - These rescue robots were designed to wander wasteland areas and supply clean water to those dying of thirst. These rusty robots now wander around the wastelands of Gamma Terra, searching for anyone to give their overflowing supplies of water to. Unfortunately, not only is the water no longer clean, but it also flows over exposed electrical circuits. Contact with the water results in a creature's electrocution. The dampwires have also suffered damage to their programming, meaning that they have forgotten where exactly a person's mouth is and instead try to force electrified water into their victims' neck with high pressure.

    Greater Dampwire - Some dampwires have come into contact with rogue Xi nanobots. The nanobots have overwritten the dampwire's programming and altered its frame to grant it greater combat capabilities. The water tanks of these dampwires are also contaminated with nanobots that have become damaged due to the electrified water. A greater dampwire that "bites" a creature infects its victim with these malfunctioning nanobots, resulting in the unlucky creature's transformation into an insane cyborg dampwire spawn. The dampwire spawn accompany their master into its stronghold, where the greater dampwire builds-up a machine army capable of "scrapping" biological creatures in the region.

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I've got two more homebrew powers for Gamma World that I'd like constructive criticism for.

    The first is a Speedster power that I got from timejockey's 4E Modern thread. He's looking for constructive criticism, too, so I figured I might as well kill two birds with one stone.

    SPLIT-SECOND SWIPE - SPEEDSTER NOVICE
    A quick, light jab in the throat can be more effective than a powerful, yet easily blocked, blow.
    At-Will * Psi, Physical
    Minor Action - Melee or Ranged Weapon
    Target: One creature
    Attack: Dexterity + your level + weapon accuracy – 2 vs AC
    Hit: Dexterity modifier physical damage.


    This next one is a ranged Pyrokinetic power that deals damage not just to the target, but to all enemies in the line of effect.

    BURNING PITCH - PYROKINETIC NOVICE
    You form a ball of fire and toss it at a distant foe. Burning strands emerge from the flame, lashing those it passes by.
    At-Will * Psi, Fire
    Standard Action - Ranged 10
    Target:
    One enemy
    Attack: Wisdom + your level vs Reflex
    Hit: 1d10 + Wisdom modifier + twice your level fire damage. Enemies in the line of effect between you and the target take fire damage equal to your Wisdom modifier.

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Oh, and while I'm at it, here's two mutant horned toads I statted-up for Gamma World. The first one in particular is inspired by Dark Sun's jhakar, but not exactly the same. BTW, never mind the "Morale" entry. That's for a house rule of mine that basically just means "this is how much HP this creature loses when I feel like a battle is an assured PC victory and want it to end soon".

    bloodtoadhounder.png

    bloodtoadensanguinary.png

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  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Wait, 4e Modern thread? Link pls?

    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    Wait, 4e Modern thread? Link pls?

    4E Modern

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    ·
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
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