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What Video Games Play Like Dungeons & Dragons 4E?

Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
edited November 2010 in Games and Technology
I like Dungeons & Dragons 4E very much, but I'm usually stuck as the DM. I'd really love to be on the player's side. This got me wondering if there were any video games that play similarly to the D&D 4E experience.

These are the criteria for the sort of games I'm looking for:

* Turn-based tactical RPG
* Small number of player characters (less than 10)
* Each PC is specialized to fulfill an integral role
* Positioning is key to victory
* Enemies can be forced to reposition, such as by being pushed

A lot of people criticize 4E by claiming that it's like a video game. Despite this claim, I haven't found too many games that play like it. Here's what I've got so far:

* Final Fantasy Tactics
* Wizard's Crown
* Disgaea
* Gladius
* Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter

Are their any other games that fit my criteria I could look into?

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Posts

  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    It's not "like a video game" on a specific basis, just like some existing game out there. It's like a video game in that it abstracts itself from a more realistic setting in the same ways.

    Whether a fantasy roleplaying game should be like a realistic, or whether it is more fun to be more realistic, that's another matter entirely. The fact is that 4E is more like a video game than a "realistic" fantasy world.

    One of the things that people complained about in 3rd edition was how powerful a wizard could get relative to a fighter, but let's be honest, if magic was real then a person who could command it probably would be more powerful. 4E, on the other hand, does its best to put all the classes in perfect balance. A massive fireball is no more powerful than a sword slash. This may make it more fun, depending on what you play DnD for, but it's certainly not realistic. In the real world, some people are more effective than others at fighting.

    The ability system is another main thing that is like a video game. Instead of a swordsman just rushing in to fight to the best of his ability, everything has a Name and a very specific thing it does. Turbo Spinning Rush, Steel Piston Strike, Glancing Blade Split, or whatever. Real combat does not work anything like this, but video games do. It's true that in "old style" DnD where you used basic attacks constantly, that's not necessarily realistic either, but it left more room for roleplay, to decide on your own what that last attack looked like.

    Finally, there's the role system, lifted directly from most MMOs. Tank, healer, DPS and support, straight up. These roles tend to develop naturally anyway in a roleplaying group, but making them so explicit and necessary in 4E has bent it more towards a game and away from a simulation.

    So to answer your question, 4E draws most comparisons with WoW and other MMOs. No, they're not turn based, but that's about all that's missing.

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    This isn't really what this thread's about. I want examples of specific video games that play similarly to 4E.

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  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    And I gave an example, having considered the things that make it like a video game.

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  • BlurblBlurbl Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Closest I can think of is Dragon Age. Not turn based, but it has a pause system, rogues need to be behind enemies to do full damage, mages can be very controlling if you take the right spells, using oil/fire and gylphs etc.

    Not exactly what you want, but I haven't found any games like that either.

  • SightTDWSightTDW Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Keep an eye on the new Neverwinter game Atari/Cryptic is conjuring up. As I understand it's going to be built around 4e.

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Admittedly, the only MMORPG I've ever played is City of Heroes, so I might not have enough experience with those type of games to make an objective statement, but 4E doesn't seem very similar to a MMO to me.

    I remember playing City of Heroes to be a chaotic experience, whereas the positioning and power usage of D&D 4E is careful and methodical. 4E has many, many powers that allow allies to move outside their turns and force enemies to move against their will; I feel like movement granting/forcing powers may be one of the defining traits of 4E combat, and I don't recall seeing many powers like them in City of Heroes.

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  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Pretty much every single unit SRPG based off of Tactics Ogre is heavy into unit positioning.

    None go for D&D 4th Edition balancing of magic and physical classes though. That's more of a Gauntlet 3D or FF XII sort of thing.

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  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    From the complaints I hear its like wow. you have your spamable abilities, encounter powers and dailies(long cooldowns). a tank, melee/ranged dps and healers, only thing not present is controllers, which is kind of built in everywhere else as a secondary.

    I see the similarities but I also don't get why it's a complaint besides they just want to hate on wow and now they want to hate on 4e.


    edit: If you like grinding? go for the disgea series, there's literally enough content there as a tactical RPG that you will never finish all 3 if you have OCD.


    double edit: It's early, I missed that you listed Disgea. Theres a few more tactics games they released in the same vein, like La Pucel tactics.

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  • JacquesCousteauJacquesCousteau Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    The campaign in Dawn of War 2 is very similar to 4E except it's real time.

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  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I see the similarities but I also don't get why it's a complaint besides they just want to hate on wow and now they want to hate on 4e.

    It's a complaint from purists because at least in their eyes, roleplaying is/should be about a realistic world simulation, "you can do anything you want in this world" sort of thing. Bringing in video game-like rulesets might feel arbitrary and start to take away from that feeling.

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  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Meh the arguement is off topic anyways.

    Phantom Brave is the other game similar to la pucell, and disgea that I couldn't think of. I think the GCN had a LotR's tactics game, but it wasn't too hot I am told.

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  • CherrnCherrn Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Valkyria Chronicles reminds me a lot of a tabletop game. It's all about positioning and managing your troops/classes by way of limited resources within each turn. I know the game's story also gets a ridiculous amount of praise on these forums, but I found it to be fairly clichéd and predictable. Still, I'd definitely recommend it for the combat system.

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  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    If you like the positioning aspect, Phantom Brave or similar is likely the way to go, there are a lot of abilities that move around you or your opponents.

  • AstaleAstale Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Give Valkyria Chronicles a shot if you have a PS3 or PSP.

    Also, WoW isn't even remotely like a 4E game. :?

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    jothki wrote: »
    If you like the positioning aspect, Phantom Brave or similar is likely the way to go, there are a lot of abilities that move around you or your opponents.

    I might give it a shot. I listed Disgaea earlier, but frankly it doesn't have many abilities in it that let you reposition enemies (and the way you reposition allies by picking up and throwing whole stacks of them is bizarre).

    The only problem is that I grew tired of the amount of grinding necessary in Disgaea, so if Phantom Brave requires a similar amount of grinding I may give it a pass.

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    SightTDW wrote: »
    Keep an eye on the new Neverwinter game Atari/Cryptic is conjuring up. As I understand it's going to be built around 4e.

    That's what I've heard. Unfortunately, I've also heard the game is going to be real time, not turn-based, so I don't have my hopes up for it.

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  • AiserouAiserou Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I would kill for a straight port of the 4e rules into a video game, turned based and everything.

    :(

  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Jagged Alliance 2, X-COM kind of, Freedom Force and Freedom Force vs. The Third Reich, and Silent Storm all sort of fit to a greater or lesser degree. King's Bounty might be worth looking at.

  • Captain KCaptain K Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Dragon Age on PC for sure. Combat happens in real time but I fucking abuse the pause function to the point where it's basically turn-based. The game can be as easy or as hard as you like depending on how much magic you use. :P

    Also there's a lot of Infinity Engine games that actually are D&D, if you can go back to the second edition rules. I have a hard time going back, even though Baldur's Gate 2 is an amazing game.

  • ToastlyToastly Registered User
    edited November 2010
    Have you played Neverwinter Nights? I think thats as close to a straight video game version of D&D there ever was. Dragon Age is good, but personally I think KotOR is better if you want any sort of streamlined version of D&D. Both have sort of balance issues between the classes (one class is way better than the other in both games), but as a single player game you just sort of pick out a team of people you like and overpower enemies by the end of the game.



    not super relevant but did anyone else play progress quest?

  • EggPuppetEggPuppet Registered User
    edited November 2010
    if you haven't played Baldur's Gate 2 you definitely should.

  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Captain K wrote: »
    Dragon Age on PC for sure. Combat happens in real time but I fucking abuse the pause function to the point where it's basically turn-based.

    I did that, too. I think the most fun I had in combat was when "rigged" the field in the Circle of Magi. I was in a hallway and could see a group of enemies in a larger room through a door. I decided to use the door as a funnel for the enemies and planned my strategy accordingly.

    First I got Leliana to fire an arrow at the enemies, making them aware of my party's presence. Next I had Wynn activate an earthquake spell on the enemies' side of the door, which dealt some damage and slowed them down. Morrigan let loose a fire blast through the door as the enemies got within range. Finally, my melee character was there to prevent access through the doorway, using the doorway to ensure that the number of enemies able to attack him was minimized.

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Aiserou wrote: »
    I would kill for a straight port of the 4e rules into a video game, turned based and everything.

    :(

    Me, too. I really wonder why they aren't making a game like this.

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  • C2BC2B SwitzerlandRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Toastly wrote: »
    Have you played Neverwinter Nights? I think thats as close to a straight video game version of D&D there ever was. Dragon Age is good, but personally I think KotOR is better if you want any sort of streamlined version of D&D. Both have sort of balance issues between the classes (one class is way better than the other in both games), but as a single player game you just sort of pick out a team of people you like and overpower enemies by the end of the game.



    not super relevant but did anyone else play progress quest?

    Not really. The closest there EVER was/is TOEE (and maybe some older GoldBox games). In fact also the best. Great engine/not so great Game.

    Personally Aurora/Electron was always a "meh" engine for D&D. So was Infinity though both are more than functionable.

  • Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo When life gives you lemons... ...eat your delicious lemonsRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Aiserou wrote: »
    I would kill for a straight port of the 4e rules into a video game, turned based and everything.

    :(

    Me, too. I really wonder why they aren't making a game like this.

    Most likely because The Temple Of Elemental Evil was a direct rules port and wasn't fun at all. Computer games and Pen and Paper RPGs are very different beasts, you can't just port them wholesale.

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  • Alfred J. KwakAlfred J. Kwak Registered User
    edited November 2010
    D&D Tactics (PSP), although 3rd Edition, might be something for you.

    Baldur's Gate 2 and Neverwinter Nights 2 (+addons) are amazing roleplaying games based on the D&D ruleset, but you might not be satisfied with the combat systems in these games.

    I believe Final Fantasy Tactics is similar to Disgea, but mostly without all the grind (assumption based on my short time with FF Tactics Advance)

  • CherrnCherrn Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Mojo_Jojo wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Aiserou wrote: »
    I would kill for a straight port of the 4e rules into a video game, turned based and everything.

    :(

    Me, too. I really wonder why they aren't making a game like this.

    Most likely because The Temple Of Elemental Evil was a direct rules port and wasn't fun at all. Computer games and Pen and Paper RPGs are very different beasts, you can't just port them wholesale.

    Well, you can, since the system conversion was easily the best part of ToEE and the only reason to actually play that game. It's just the campaign was shit.

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  • randombattlerandombattle Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    The Witcher or Divinity 2 : DKS might fit the bill pretty good.

    The knights of the old republic games would fit in damn well too seeing how they are based on D&D.

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I went-out and purchased both Final Fantasy Tactics Advance and Gladius from Play n' Trade. I've also played Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter before, so I'll post my impressions of it as well.

    FFTA's combat lacks the type of movement abilities present in D&D 4E. I looked on Gamefaqs and saw that you can unlock a Fighter ability that lets you push an enemy with a hit, but I didn't notice anything else that caused forced movement (I'm planning to get that ability for at least two of my characters). Getting a critical hit against an enemy pushes it one space, but that's too infrequent and situational to really play a role in strategizing.

    I honestly haven't gotten very far at all in Gladius. Whereas FFTA throws you right into the thick of action with only minimal explanation, Gladius sits you in a high chair and spoon feeds you tutorials (you can skip these, which I should have). I haven't seen anything in terms of forced movement yet. There's also the issue of high ground: being at a higher elevation than your opponent gives you a tactical advantage (for some reason), and the fact that you primarily gain the high ground by climbing up onto a random wooden crate just strikes me as silly.

    So far Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter has fit closest to 4E's combat. There are several forced movement powers available (for example, Ryu can kick an enemy away from him), and you can create damaging magical zones (Nina can create elemental magic circles that damage those enemies who enter them). Unfortunately, Ryu makes for a poor Defender, as he lacks sufficient means to prevent his ranged attacker allies from being approached by monsters.

    Playing these games has led me to realize how complicated and nuanced the combat in D&D 4E is. Surely there's a video game out there whose combat system is as ambitious as D&D 4E's, right?

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  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    There's plenty, but there not complicated in the same way as 4th edition is.

    Some games have excellent movement based gameplay, but lack the defined roles of characters. In fact most non mmo's don't have tanks, controllers, striker roles, just pretty much physical strikers and magical weaker strikers.

    Some games have the roles but don't have the turn based action you're looking for.

    What you really want is a 4th edition turn based game. They don't exist yet. The closest things are these SRPGs, a couple of real time games (WoW and FF XII) and surprisingly enough, Pokemon.

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  • CherrnCherrn Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    I went-out and purchased both Final Fantasy Tactics Advance and Gladius from Play n' Trade. I've also played Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter before, so I'll post my impressions of it as well.

    FFTA's combat lacks the type of movement abilities present in D&D 4E. I looked on Gamefaqs and saw that you can unlock a Fighter ability that lets you push an enemy with a hit, but I didn't notice anything else that caused forced movement (I'm planning to get that ability for at least two of my characters). Getting a critical hit against an enemy pushes it one space, but that's too infrequent and situational to really play a role in strategizing.

    I honestly haven't gotten very far at all in Gladius. Whereas FFTA throws you right into the thick of action with only minimal explanation, Gladius sits you in a high chair and spoon feeds you tutorials (you can skip these, which I should have). I haven't seen anything in terms of forced movement yet. There's also the issue of high ground: being at a higher elevation than your opponent gives you a tactical advantage (for some reason), and the fact that you primarily gain the high ground by climbing up onto a random wooden crate just strikes me as silly.

    So far Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter has fit closest to 4E's combat. There are several forced movement powers available (for example, Ryu can kick an enemy away from him), and you can create damaging magical zones (Nina can create elemental magic circles that damage those enemies who enter them). Unfortunately, Ryu makes for a poor Defender, as he lacks sufficient means to prevent his ranged attacker allies from being approached by monsters.

    Playing these games has led me to realize how complicated and nuanced the combat in D&D 4E is. Surely there's a video game out there whose combat system is as ambitious as D&D 4E's, right?

    Again, dude, I'm tellin' ya: Valkyria Chronicles.

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  • useless4useless4 Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I wouldn't equate Valakria Chronicles with D&D, however it's a really progressive take on turn based srpgs.

    It does have elevation as an advantage though.

  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Cherrn wrote: »
    Again, dude, I'm tellin' ya: Valkyria Chronicles.

    I don't have a PS3.

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  • CherrnCherrn Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    useless4 wrote: »
    I wouldn't equate Valakria Chronicles with D&D, however it's a really progressive take on turn based srpgs.

    It does have elevation as an advantage though.

    It has everything he asked for, except for being able to reposition enemy troops. It feels closer to D&D than most other games in this thread, anyway.
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    I don't have a PS3.

    Ah well, never mind, then.

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  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Rogue Coral Springs, FLRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Growlanser Generations(PS2), specifically the second game(Sense of Justice), has six PCs, and positioning is extremely crucial to survival.

    It's not grid based, it's a unique combination of real-time and line-based movement. You set characters on their paths, start the turn, and everything occurs simultaneously.

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  • Tiger BurningTiger Burning (poster is a bear)Registered User, SolidSaints Tube regular
    edited November 2010
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    I went-out and purchased both Final Fantasy Tactics Advance and Gladius from Play n' Trade. I've also played Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter before, so I'll post my impressions of it as well.

    FFTA's combat lacks the type of movement abilities present in D&D 4E. I looked on Gamefaqs and saw that you can unlock a Fighter ability that lets you push an enemy with a hit, but I didn't notice anything else that caused forced movement (I'm planning to get that ability for at least two of my characters). Getting a critical hit against an enemy pushes it one space, but that's too infrequent and situational to really play a role in strategizing.

    I honestly haven't gotten very far at all in Gladius. Whereas FFTA throws you right into the thick of action with only minimal explanation, Gladius sits you in a high chair and spoon feeds you tutorials (you can skip these, which I should have). I haven't seen anything in terms of forced movement yet. There's also the issue of high ground: being at a higher elevation than your opponent gives you a tactical advantage (for some reason), and the fact that you primarily gain the high ground by climbing up onto a random wooden crate just strikes me as silly.

    So far Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter has fit closest to 4E's combat. There are several forced movement powers available (for example, Ryu can kick an enemy away from him), and you can create damaging magical zones (Nina can create elemental magic circles that damage those enemies who enter them). Unfortunately, Ryu makes for a poor Defender, as he lacks sufficient means to prevent his ranged attacker allies from being approached by monsters.

    Playing these games has led me to realize how complicated and nuanced the combat in D&D 4E is. Surely there's a video game out there whose combat system is as ambitious as D&D 4E's, right?

    Consider Bloodbowl. It's not exactly combat, but it's the best turn-based tactical game I've played, and I love those kinds of games and have played a lot of them.

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  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I was actually going to suggest Blood Bowl too, but I didn't know how faithful the new version was to the original.

    It's pretty much all about tackle zones and protection.

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  • The Real InfernoThe Real Inferno Registered User
    edited November 2010
    This may sound dumb to bring up, but there's a Tenchi Muyo RPG on the SNES that pretty much plays exactly like 4e DnD.

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