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Magic: The Gathering- Cards flippin and floppin all over

24567103

Posts

  • ShortForeskinShortForeskin Registered User
    edited November 2010
    Terrendos wrote: »
    That's a decent point. I'm not trying to build a professionally competitive deck. I guess maybe I was overestimating the number of people who will actually build pro-level decks. My friends don't go that far, and as I'm not interested in a professional level of play, I guess I'm probably okay with running cheaper stuff.

    Yeah man, if you're just playing at the kitchen table you can very easily run a U/W control deck for really cheap. No need to go crazy and buy 100$ cards. If you're not stuck on U/W, I really enjoy playing my W/R Astral Slide deck. Eternal Dragons are so eternal, and Lightning Helix is a killer. Great control deck based around cycling.

  • JeffHJeffH Registered User
    edited November 2010
    Mouschi wrote: »
    Hymns are like two bucks on starcitygames.

    So I just learned that atlanta is a nearly twelve hour drive for me, which is crazy nuts. I want to go, but uuuuugh twelve hours in a van with nerds. What do the superchamps of PA do? I guess Chen probably just walks, since it's only like ten miles from London to Prague. But what about Americans!

    I drove to toronto from MA, wasn't too bad. My buddies from maine just drove to nashville. Man up I say!

  • ForarForar #432 Already prepping for Toronto Fan Expo!Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Okay, it cost me more than I should be willing to pay for kitchen table magic (though less than I expected), but I finally snagged a playset of All is Dust.

    I simply cannot wait to put those in my Myr deck. I don't think any of my friends have another colourless deck between the 4 of them. If I manage to resolve that, that game will be over not too long afterwards barring a major recovery effort and jumping on me all at once with everything at their disposal.

    It's going to be glorious.

    sigone.png
  • DiorinixDiorinix Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Godspeed, Forar.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Mmmmm....toasty.
  • ShortForeskinShortForeskin Registered User
    edited November 2010
    Forar wrote: »
    Okay, it cost me more than I should be willing to pay for kitchen table magic (though less than I expected), but I finally snagged a playset of All is Dust.

    I simply cannot wait to put those in my Myr deck. I don't think any of my friends have another colourless deck between the 4 of them. If I manage to resolve that, that game will be over not too long afterwards barring a major recovery effort and jumping on me all at once with everything at their disposal.

    It's going to be glorious.

    oooh sounds fun, do you mind me asking how much you payed for them? I think 10-15$/card isn't overly expensive if it's going to blow your friends out of the water. It'd be pretty hilarious to see if anyone can stabilize their board if you're playing All is Dust and someone else is playing Defiler of Souls

  • LardalishLardalish Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Ok, so Im workin on turning my MBC into UB control and Im lookin at the MTGS forums and Im seeing a lot of people asking if they're playing "permission" or "tapout". Would someone mind explaining those terms? Goin from context it sounds like permission would run more counters and tapout would more often "tapout" all their mana to play stuff... but I dunno how that would really control things.

  • B.C.B.C. Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    You're correct in general sense.

    Permission control style decks like to sit back on their mana, using counter spells, instant speed removal, and instant speed card draw to react to what the opponent is doing. Once they have worn the opponent out of gas they finish them off with a removal resilient bomb.

    "Tapout" control is a term spawned in the late days of Alara constructed when Everflowing Chalice became available for use but not Mana Leak. Tapout control still relies on counter spells and instant speed removal+board wipes, but it seeks to develop its mana at a faster pace and just start dropping more bombs and large X spells than the opponent could handle. Once one of those bombs stuck you could usually ride your counter magic to victory. The two most popular finishers for the original incarnate of Tapout Control were Mind Spring for HUGE CARD ADVANTAGE or a large Martial Coup. From there Esper Tapout saw some play (Going Jace->Baneslayer->Titan is almost unbeatable). Then Mana leak was printed and Permission control saw a resurgence.

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  • areaarea Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    So we're having our first group EDH session this weekend, and I've put together a group hug deck out of rares I've had lying around for years with no reason to play them. Tempting Wurm in particular is something I never thought I'd find myself putting in a deck...

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  • ForarForar #432 Already prepping for Toronto Fan Expo!Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    oooh sounds fun, do you mind me asking how much you payed for them? I think 10-15$/card isn't overly expensive if it's going to blow your friends out of the water. It'd be pretty hilarious to see if anyone can stabilize their board if you're playing All is Dust and someone else is playing Defiler of Souls

    With S&H it came to $36 US (~$38 Canadian after exchange and a paypal fee, I believe). I told myself I wouldn't go above $40, and the playset that finished before mine went for $46, so I thought I was screwed.

    Apparently the people fighting over that one weren't paying attention, 'cause I practically ninja'd the next one in line.

    The thing I like about All is Dust is that it doesn't just nail creatures. It tags planeswalkers, enchantments and coloured artifacts all at the same time. The 7 cost is harsh compared to some sweepers, but over half my Myr deck can act as a mana source (between lands and creatures that is), so I could probably power one out by turn 4 if I needed to and drew reasonably well.

    sigone.png
  • ShortForeskinShortForeskin Registered User
    edited November 2010
    Forar wrote: »
    oooh sounds fun, do you mind me asking how much you payed for them? I think 10-15$/card isn't overly expensive if it's going to blow your friends out of the water. It'd be pretty hilarious to see if anyone can stabilize their board if you're playing All is Dust and someone else is playing Defiler of Souls

    With S&H it came to $36 US (~$38 Canadian after exchange and a paypal fee, I believe). I told myself I wouldn't go above $40, and the playset that finished before mine went for $46, so I thought I was screwed.

    Apparently the people fighting over that one weren't paying attention, 'cause I practically ninja'd the next one in line.

    The thing I like about All is Dust is that it doesn't just nail creatures. It tags planeswalkers, enchantments and coloured artifacts all at the same time. The 7 cost is harsh compared to some sweepers, but over half my Myr deck can act as a mana source (between lands and creatures that is), so I could probably power one out by turn 4 if I needed to and drew reasonably well.

    Just make sure they're not running tech like Tajuru Preserver haha.

  • ForarForar #432 Already prepping for Toronto Fan Expo!Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Just make sure they're not running tech like Tajuru Preserver haha.

    Heh, that'd be trouble, luckily I don't think anyone in the group has any of those, and if they do they aren't running them commonly. A benefit to having as many decks sleeved as I do; 'sideboarding' against a given theme, mechanic, tribe or type is often useless, as I rarely play the same deck twice in a night.

    Come to think of it, the only decks that I have that might recover with any real speed would be my Angel deck (Twilight Shepherd) and Green/Black wither/persist, but only a handful of creatures still actually have persist in there. Though I am tempted to build a green/white persist to make use of the Heartmenders sitting in my binders.

    Not that I really need to build and sleeve 2 more decks.

    sigone.png
  • LucedesLucedes Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Forar, I am running that deck. That deck you are running. Colorless acceleration into All is Dust. The difference is that I'm not playing myr, which is sort of a huge difference, but the win condition is roughly the same. It is pretty damn sweet when you can throw down All is Dust with a horde of artifact creatures in play, basically.

    The best game I played was Steel Overseer into Precursor Golem into Darksteel Juggernaut into All is Dust.

  • jhunter46jhunter46 Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I've been tinkering with this casual deck for a while. It's pretty straight forward. Drop a Gelectrode or a Dragonaut, play a ton of cheap cantrips and burn and go to town. Right now I'm looking for suggestions to make it a little more consistent.

    //Creatures
    4 Gelectrode
    4 Wee Dragonauts
    1 Niv-Mizzet the Firemind

    //Draw
    4 Preordain
    4 Slight of hand
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder

    //Burn
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Lava Spike
    4 Volcanic Hammer
    4 Incinerate

    //Land
    9 Island
    8 Mountain
    1 Shivan Reef
    1 Caldera Lake

  • FilFil Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I just noticed something interesting; in a lot of older U/W control decks it was common to see 3-4 Disenchants mainboarded but you don't see that kind of thing anymore.

    I wonder if it's because of the lack of a good substitute or if it's because Wizards has been really pushing creatures for the last few blocks.
    jhunter46 wrote: »
    I've been tinkering with this casual deck for a while. It's pretty straight forward. Drop a Gelectrode or a Dragonaut, play a ton of cheap cantrips and burn and go to town. Right now I'm looking for suggestions to make it a little more consistent.

    //Creatures
    4 Gelectrode
    4 Wee Dragonauts
    1 Niv-Mizzet the Firemind

    //Draw
    4 Preordain
    4 Slight of hand
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder

    //Burn
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Lava Spike
    4 Volcanic Hammer
    4 Incinerate

    //Land
    9 Island
    8 Mountain
    1 Shivan Reef
    1 Caldera Lake

    :^:

    Fully support this. My Izzet deck is most fun to play and cheap as dirt.

    Your land count seems very light. I'd run Guildmages over the Dragonauts because they give staying power and also combos with all your cantrips for real card draw. Also, if you want to throw in Curiousity/Ophidian Eye, it will turn your Gelectrodes into Niv-Mizzets and Niv-Mizzet into instant win.

  • ShortForeskinShortForeskin Registered User
    edited November 2010
    Forar wrote: »
    Just make sure they're not running tech like Tajuru Preserver haha.

    Heh, that'd be trouble, luckily I don't think anyone in the group has any of those, and if they do they aren't running them commonly. A benefit to having as many decks sleeved as I do; 'sideboarding' against a given theme, mechanic, tribe or type is often useless, as I rarely play the same deck twice in a night.

    Come to think of it, the only decks that I have that might recover with any real speed would be my Angel deck (Twilight Shepherd) and Green/Black wither/persist, but only a handful of creatures still actually have persist in there. Though I am tempted to build a green/white persist to make use of the Heartmenders sitting in my binders.

    Not that I really need to build and sleeve 2 more decks.

    You always need more decks! Heartmender is pretty cool. I like how it essentially tells you what to use it with by having Persist on itself.
    I've been tinkering with this casual deck for a while. It's pretty straight forward. Drop a Gelectrode or a Dragonaut, play a ton of cheap cantrips and burn and go to town. Right now I'm looking for suggestions to make it a little more consistent.

    //Creatures
    4 Gelectrode
    4 Wee Dragonauts
    1 Niv-Mizzet the Firemind

    //Draw
    4 Preordain
    4 Slight of hand
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder

    //Burn
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Lava Spike
    4 Volcanic Hammer
    4 Incinerate

    //Land
    9 Island
    8 Mountain
    1 Shivan Reef
    1 Caldera Lake

    Where do you want more consistency? You can run Kiln Fiend for another creature body. I love Wee Dragonauts, don't take those out. What about rituals like Rite of Flame, etc? You could really make this deck work similar to a Storm deck, but have the added bonus of creatures, and not just one big counterable win condition. Assault Strobe can get pretty dirty.

  • VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Chen wrote: »
    Congrats on your 6-3 record.

    I'd have gone with U/R myself after seeing that pool. While Carnifex Demon can swing games in your favor, Grand Architect allows early blowouts which is what you'll ultimately need against people who have more bombs than you. That card is so sick. With two Liquimetal Coating you can boost the size of your red creatures as well, which is a bonus. Not to mention that with a higher number of artifacts, Embersmith and Riddlesmith become that much better. Halt Order, Sky-Eel School and Vedalken Certarch aren't shabby either.

    Tumble Magnet is so annoying. That card was so undervalued in the beginning it's crazy.

    See, I didn't want to run both Coatings because it seemed redundant. There's rarely a reason to need to Coat two things, although I admit that Architect could be one of those times. I didn't really have any metalcraft to speak of, so that wasn't much of a consideration. I don't really see much use for his acceleration either.

    Also: I like to kill things. I'm horribly biased against blue and green in most sealed formats because of this. It's a problem some times (like my PTQ pool, probably), but it's what I do. Given the choice between a blue bomb that needs support and a black bomb that dominates on its own, I go with the Demon (almost) every time.

  • ChenChen Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I tried to like Carnifex Demon, I really did, but of the times I played it, it was pretty underwhelming.

    By the time you've slammed it on the table, you're either so far behind or your opponent has a bigger bomb like, say, Steel Hellkite or Wurmcoil Engine. Carnifex Demon really shines against the small infect creatures, but unfortunately infect decks are so blazingly fast it's usually too late. Even if you manage to stablize, if they have Contagion Clasp or Throne of Geth, it's game over. I hate those two cards so much.

    I'd rather have Geth. Now that is a game changer. He's basically the Oona of SoM. As a matter of opinion, I think I'd rather have Skinrender if I had a choice.

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  • Cynic JesterCynic Jester Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Chen wrote: »
    I tried to like Carnifex Demon, I really did, but of the times I played it, it was pretty underwhelming.

    By the time you've slammed it on the table, you're either so far behind or your opponent has a bigger bomb like, say, Steel Hellkite or Wurmcoil Engine. Carnifex Demon really shines against the small infect creatures, but unfortunately infect decks are so blazingly fast it's usually too late. Even if you manage to stablize, if they have Contagion Clasp or Throne of Geth, it's game over. I hate those two cards so much.

    I'd rather have Geth. Now that is a game changer. He's basically the Oona of SoM. As a matter of opinion, I think I'd rather have Skinrender if I had a choice.

    Personally I'd disagree. I've had him in my pool a few times and generally he was at least a wrath. I've also had both Demon and Engine in a pool, and generally, I'd much rather see Carnifex Demon unless I was at 10+ mana, which only happened once. So long as you don't try to slowplay a hand with a demon, I've found he'll win games in short order. The one time I slow played a hand with a bunch of x/1s so as to not set myself back too much, I just ended up having lost too much life before Carnifex Demon hit to clean house to live. Play normally and enjoy a flying 6/6 with a bonus in a set were 6 power is incredibly rare.

  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Carnifex Demon is the best card you can open in your first pack for a draft. I'd wager about 15% of people would rather open a Hand of the Praetors, but Carnifex Demon is better than any mythic.

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  • ShortForeskinShortForeskin Registered User
    edited November 2010
    jhunter46 wrote: »
    I've been tinkering with this casual deck for a while. It's pretty straight forward. Drop a Gelectrode or a Dragonaut, play a ton of cheap cantrips and burn and go to town. Right now I'm looking for suggestions to make it a little more consistent.

    //Creatures
    4 Gelectrode
    4 Wee Dragonauts
    1 Niv-Mizzet the Firemind

    //Draw
    4 Preordain
    4 Slight of hand
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder

    //Burn
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Lava Spike
    4 Volcanic Hammer
    4 Incinerate

    //Land
    9 Island
    8 Mountain
    1 Shivan Reef
    1 Caldera Lake

    Also, reverberate, or any of the blue options like twincast etc, will let you get your bonus a third time.

  • VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Pinfeldorf wrote: »
    Carnifex Demon is the best card you can open in your first pack for a draft. I'd wager about 15% of people would rather open a Hand of the Praetors, but Carnifex Demon is better than any mythic.

    I'd put Hoard-Smelter Dragon pretty high up there too, as rares go. Maybe inferior to Skittles, though.

  • TarantioTarantio Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    jhunter46 wrote: »
    I've been tinkering with this casual deck for a while. It's pretty straight forward. Drop a Gelectrode or a Dragonaut, play a ton of cheap cantrips and burn and go to town. Right now I'm looking for suggestions to make it a little more consistent.

    //Creatures
    4 Gelectrode
    4 Wee Dragonauts
    1 Niv-Mizzet the Firemind

    //Draw
    4 Preordain
    4 Slight of hand
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder

    //Burn
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Lava Spike
    4 Volcanic Hammer
    4 Incinerate

    //Land
    9 Island
    8 Mountain
    1 Shivan Reef
    1 Caldera Lake

    Also, reverberate, or any of the blue options like twincast etc, will let you get your bonus a third time.

    That's not actually true; when those spells make a copy of another spell, the copy is put directly onto the stack, not cast, which is what dragonauts and gelectrode look for.

    Also, I feel like you can have better burn spells than Lava Spike and Volcanic Hammer. Staggershock fits your gameplan very well, Lash Out and Searing Blaze are both fantastic when the opponent has creatures, Sudden Shock is really, really useful, etc.

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  • B.C.B.C. Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Izzet Guildmage+Lava Spike+Desperate Ritual

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  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Vyolynce wrote: »
    Pinfeldorf wrote: »
    Carnifex Demon is the best card you can open in your first pack for a draft. I'd wager about 15% of people would rather open a Hand of the Praetors, but Carnifex Demon is better than any mythic.

    I'd put Hoard-Smelter Dragon pretty high up there too, as rares go. Maybe inferior to Skittles, though.

    HSD is probably still worse than Wurmcoil Engine, Masticore, Hand, Contagion Engine and Battlesphere though. Skithyirix...not sure about that guy, I've honestly never played against or with it, but I'd still wager it's roughly as good as Putrefax.

    1133965-1.png?1297145727
  • NorgothNorgoth Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    So I er, cracked a foil jace TMS. Now do I sell it for cash monies or trade it for multiple normal jaces?

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • B.C.B.C. Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I'd trade it for multiple normal mind sculptors if you're going to need multiple normal mind sculptors

    The thing about TMS is that he's going to hold his value for a looooooong time.

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  • NorgothNorgoth Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Yeah, just gota find someone willing to trade it for jaces. How many should I expect to get? Looking at values on trade sites its about 3 jaces give or take $10-20, and I have enough value rares to make up the difference, but in my experience once the folders are out people seem to massively overvalue there jaces (round here at least).

    In a slight aside I asked my Fiancée whether I should trade for jaces or sell it for money towards the wedding. Her reply was "Trade for jaces so I can play u/b control"

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Norgoth wrote: »
    Yeah, just gota find someone willing to trade it for jaces. How many should I expect to get? Looking at values on trade sites its about 3 jaces give or take $10-20, and I have enough value rares to make up the difference, but in my experience once the folders are out people seem to massively overvalue there jaces (round here at least).

    In a slight aside I asked my Fiancée whether I should trade for jaces or sell it for money towards the wedding. Her reply was "Trade for jaces so I can play u/b control"

    Does she have a sister? And if she does, is she in to bald fat guys who can't read?

    1133965-1.png?1297145727
  • LucedesLucedes Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Pinfeldorf wrote: »
    Vyolynce wrote: »
    Pinfeldorf wrote: »
    Carnifex Demon is the best card you can open in your first pack for a draft. I'd wager about 15% of people would rather open a Hand of the Praetors, but Carnifex Demon is better than any mythic.

    I'd put Hoard-Smelter Dragon pretty high up there too, as rares go. Maybe inferior to Skittles, though.

    HSD is probably still worse than Wurmcoil Engine, Masticore, Hand, Contagion Engine and Battlesphere though. Skithyirix...not sure about that guy, I've honestly never played against or with it, but I'd still wager it's roughly as good as Putrefax.

    Skittles is slightly more powerful than Putrefax, as far as I've seen. I've seen him played 3-4 times, mostly in Constructed, once in Sealed. He usually ends the game if he lasts until his second round and is unblocked.

  • devericdeveric MinneapolisRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    So i've morphed my extended vala scapeshift into a prismatic scapeshift deck. There are 3 or 4 PTQs for extended in the next two months, so need to hammer this out soon. local shop has a practice run on tuesday, and then there is one this coming saturday.

    Thinking about this:
    Spoiler:

    and for a side:
    Spoiler:

    Now I have some questions, since i'm not as familiar with the lorwyn/alara block as I am with everything since then.

    1) is there something besides sun titan which would help me fetch out of my graveyard?
    2) what should I change sideboard wise? I thought about putting in 2 sarkhans, but not sure yet.
    3) any other suggestions?

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  • devericdeveric MinneapolisRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    deveric wrote: »
    So i've morphed my extended vala scapeshift into a prismatic scapeshift deck. There are 3 or 4 PTQs for extended in the next two months, so need to hammer this out soon. local shop has a practice run on tuesday, and then there is one this coming saturday.

    Thinking about this:
    Spoiler:

    and for a side:
    Spoiler:

    Now I have some questions, since i'm not as familiar with the lorwyn/alara block as I am with everything since then.

    1) is there something besides sun titan which would help me fetch out of my graveyard?
    2) what should I change sideboard wise? I thought about putting in 2 sarkhans, but not sure yet.
    3) any other suggestions?



    Ok, edited some more after some criticism I received:
    Spoiler:

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  • MouschiMouschi Registered User
    edited November 2010
    Maybe I'm missing something, but shouldn't there be some mountains in your deck?

    1848717-1.png
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  • devericdeveric MinneapolisRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Mouschi wrote: »
    Maybe I'm missing something, but shouldn't there be some mountains in your deck?

    using the prismatic omens, you don't actually.

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  • E.CoyoteE.Coyote Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I've been having a lot of luck with a mono black flying infect deck. Pumped stingers and scudders with tainted strike make for quick games. ~.~

  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    My FLGS had a 25% off sale on Magic singles for Black Friday. I still need 2x Primevals, and I haven't been able to trade for them. The store had a foil Primeval, which after the sale cost as much as a normal Primeval.

    My will is weak.

    Also, no one will trade me summoning traps and it's pissing me off.

    deveric wrote: »
    Mouschi wrote: »
    Maybe I'm missing something, but shouldn't there be some mountains in your deck?

    using the prismatic omens, you don't actually.

    Are lands affected by the Prismatic Omens during their "come into play" effect triggers?

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    "Ain't we just."
  • MugaazMugaaz Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    20 land is nowhere near enough in a deck with 6 drops.

  • devericdeveric MinneapolisRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    My FLGS had a 25% off sale on Magic singles for Black Friday. I still need 2x Primevals, and I haven't been able to trade for them. The store had a foil Primeval, which after the sale cost as much as a normal Primeval.

    My will is weak.

    Also, no one will trade me summoning traps and it's pissing me off.

    deveric wrote: »
    Mouschi wrote: »
    Maybe I'm missing something, but shouldn't there be some mountains in your deck?

    using the prismatic omens, you don't actually.

    Are lands affected by the Prismatic Omens during their "come into play" effect triggers?

    From what I understand, they are. I'll do some more digging around though
    Mugaaz wrote: »
    20 land is nowhere near enough in a deck with 6 drops.

    Between the scry/ponder/farhavens/mul dayas, that is more than enough, in the playtesting i've been doing

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  • DiorinixDiorinix Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    If prismatic omen is in play, and you scapeshift to sacrifice 4 lands (when you have 6 there already) and drag out 4 valakuts, the valakuts themselves will see there is more than 5 "mountains" in play when the 6th drops, triggering each valakut 4 times, for a total of 48 damage.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Mmmmm....toasty.
  • devericdeveric MinneapolisRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Diorinix wrote: »
    If prismatic omen is in play, and you scapeshift to sacrifice 4 lands (when you have 6 there already) and drag out 4 valakuts, the valakuts themselves will see there is more than 5 "mountains" in play when the 6th drops, triggering each valakut 4 times, for a total of 48 damage.

    Cool, that's what I assumed. just wanted to make sure

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  • LardalishLardalish Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Ok, so I decided to turn my MBC into UB control since my roommate has all the blue stuff Id need and Ive got all the black stuff. My problem is I can't decide on a deck-list. I don't know if I want to run permission with counters out the wazoo or tap-out with mimic vat and percy.

    Heres the two lists I threw together:

    Permission
    Spoiler:

    Tap-out
    Spoiler:

    Now, the tapout still needs some work, I need to find out someplace to put a couple counters. I know I shouldn't run a ton of them, but I think if Im running blue I should have at least some counter magic.

    And the lands I havent really worked out but Ive got everything Ill need except darkslick shores, havent picked up any of those yet, but I do have the manlands and the M11 duals.

    As it stands, Im kind of leaning more towards the Tap-Out build because I really like mimic vat and I loved it in my MBC deck, and this list is closer to what my MBC deck was, it would probably be an easier transition.

    The permission seems more solid though, counter everything, then lay a threat and coast.

    Ill worry about sideboards once I settle on a list, but it will probably be something like
    2 consume the meek
    3 flashfreeze
    X duress
    X Disfigure

    And some other stuff.

    Anyway, what do you guys think?

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