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Magic: The Gathering- Cards flippin and floppin all over

1457910103

Posts

  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    Forar, I think he means arranged so the backs of the sleeves are facing the same way.

    But that doesn't really answer the question either; I too am having trouble determining how I would even get tot he point where sleeves were the wrong way up in my deck...

    Ahhh, that would make a lot more sense. Yeah, on the rare occasion I'll find that a card managed to get shuffled into the deck upside down (either by the sleeve art or simply by, y'know, picking it up and finding it upside down), but rarely in large numbers.

    I played against one guy where it seemed like half his deck (art backs) were facing random directions. I'd pondered calling a judge, but it was only a pre-release and I wasn't doing well enough to be in the standings, so I didn't really care. Sure, if he were cheating I should've done what I could to prevent others from facing his shenanigans, but everything else seemed kosher, so it didn't seem like it was worth making an issue out of at the time.

    That aside, I can't wait for the pre-release in a month. Loving the look of both the Mirran and Phyrexian cards, so I think this might just have to be a 2 flight day for me.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • FiggyFiggy Fighter of the night man Champion of the sunRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    When blocking with multiple creatures, does the attacking player choose how damage is assigned? That's how it works in the Planeswalkers PC game, but the rules on the official MTG site say the opposite. What do?

    Figgy on
    XBL : Figment3 · SteamID : Figment
  • khainkhain Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    Forar, I think he means arranged so the backs of the sleeves are facing the same way.

    But that doesn't really answer the question either; I too am having trouble determining how I would even get tot he point where sleeves were the wrong way up in my deck...

    It's a problem when someone does it on purpose with say only the land in the deck, or four specific cards so they potentially know the top of their library.

    Figgy: The attacking player announces the damage assignment order for each attacking creature in the Declare Blockers step after the defending player has finished blocking and then when combat damage is applied you're required to assign lethal to damage to each creature in the blocking order before assigning damage to the next creature. The rule is 509.2 in the comprehensive rules book or on page 12 in the basic rule book.

    khain on
  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    khain wrote: »
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    Forar, I think he means arranged so the backs of the sleeves are facing the same way.

    But that doesn't really answer the question either; I too am having trouble determining how I would even get tot he point where sleeves were the wrong way up in my deck...

    It's a problem when someone does it on purpose with say only the land in the deck, or four specific cards so they potentially know the top of their library.

    Yes, obviously; marked deck == bad. What I was saying is an adjunct to Forar's statement regarding compulsive behaviour and not knowing what sort of level of distraction I'd have to be at to let even one card slip through with the back reversed.

    Since then I have actually discovered what that level is and it turns out to be Olivia Wilde in a neon-and-leather armoured catsuit.

    Mr_Rose on
    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
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  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Yeah ZestRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    khain wrote: »
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    Forar, I think he means arranged so the backs of the sleeves are facing the same way.

    But that doesn't really answer the question either; I too am having trouble determining how I would even get tot he point where sleeves were the wrong way up in my deck...

    It's a problem when someone does it on purpose with say only the land in the deck, or four specific cards so they potentially know the top of their library.

    Yes, obviously; marked deck == bad. What I was saying is an adjunct to Forar's statement regarding compulsive behaviour and not knowing what sort of level of distraction I'd have to be at to let even one card slip through with the back reversed.

    Since then I have actually discovered what that level is and it turns out to be Olivia Wilde in a neon-and-leather armoured catsuit.

    You are going to link this picture or fall into a fucking volcano.

    Pinfeldorf on
  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    What, you don't like bikes?
    olivia-wilde-tron-legacy-couch.jpg
    Olivia-Wilde-as-Quorra-in-Tron-Legacy1280-800-wallpaper.jpg
    MagicPrime wrote: »
    wallpaper_quorra1_1024x768.jpg
    Oh, and my favourite:
    tron_legacy_olivia_wilde_character_poster.jpg

    I'm left wondering though, whether you thought I was talking about something else, or simply somehow missed all this?

    Mr_Rose on
    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
    Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
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  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Yeah ZestRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    What, you don't like bikes?
    olivia-wilde-tron-legacy-couch.jpg
    Olivia-Wilde-as-Quorra-in-Tron-Legacy1280-800-wallpaper.jpg
    MagicPrime wrote: »
    wallpaper_quorra1_1024x768.jpg
    Oh, and my favourite:
    tron_legacy_olivia_wilde_character_poster.jpg

    I'm left wondering though, whether you thought I was talking about something else, or simply somehow missed all this?

    Yes to both, really. I didn't know she was in that movie, as I haven't seen it yet.

    Pinfeldorf on
  • B.C.B.C. is a bee! remember me?Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    So extended season is upon us! I am thinking of running 5 color Faunamentals.

    4 Fauna Shaman
    4 Vengevine
    4 Horde of Notions
    4 Flamekin Harbinger
    4 Smokebraider
    3 Shriekmaw
    2 Wispmare
    1 Ingot Chewer
    4 Mulldrifter
    3 Reveillark

    1 Nameless Inversion
    1 Cribswap

    4 Reflecting Pool
    4 Primal Beyond
    17 lands that I am still working on

    side board to be determined.


    I think the deck has a lot of moxy. Fauna Shaman and Flamekin Harbinger give you an incredibly versatile toolbox (especially out of the sideboard) and the evoke mechanic allows you to recur vengevines like a motherfucker when you need to.

    B.C. on
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  • ChenChen Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    How does that list win against Scapeshift? Seriously, that deck is everywhere. Cheap to build and stupidly easy to play.

    Chen on
    V0Gug2h.png
  • FiggyFiggy Fighter of the night man Champion of the sunRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    So playing some casual games with my brother-in-law yesterday, and almost every time I attack, out pops this:

    moments_peace.jpg

    I'm assuming this card is disallowed in anything but Legacy and Vintage?

    Figgy on
    XBL : Figment3 · SteamID : Figment
  • khainkhain Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    It's disallowed because it was only printed in Odyssey and thus isn't in either the current Standard or Extended formats, but it's a pretty mediocre card in most cases.

    khain on
  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Sounds like you need a Quash.

    Terrendos on
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    ... "disallowed"?

    Son, casual is the hardest of the hardcore formats. A place where you'll find decks running jank that hasn't ever even been in the same room as a tournament deck lined next to (or even in the same deck as) 4 Sol Rings and a set of Skullclamps that'd make R&D weep.

    Sometimes to make a concept work you've just gotta throw a pile of [strike]cash[/strike] broken cards at it.

    But seriously, I've run (and run into) my share of decks packing Moment's Peace in the day. Sometimes you can counter, sometimes you just have to keep trying to dominate the board and force them to use their outs up, and sometimes they buy enough time to bend you over a barrel. Like any card with Flashback, at least you know the second round is coming.

    As I'm contractually obligated to mention at least once per MTG thread, I primarily play multiplayer. When creature decks are the standard on the table, the guy who can flip the bird at your collective win condition often attracts a lot of ire. Barring an Isochron Scepter or three, those things do run out eventually when 2-4 other people start heaving armies at you.

    Or start playing EDH so you know there's only one. And a Fog. And a Holy Day. And a Respite.

    ... okay, depending on their commitment to the theme, there really are a good number of those things in the game.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • B.C.B.C. is a bee! remember me?Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Chen wrote: »
    How does that list win against Scapeshift? Seriously, that deck is everywhere. Cheap to build and stupidly easy to play.

    Prismatic Scapeshift or RG Shift?

    B.C. on
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  • devericdeveric MinneapolisRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    B.C. wrote: »
    Chen wrote: »
    How does that list win against Scapeshift? Seriously, that deck is everywhere. Cheap to build and stupidly easy to play.

    Prismatic Scapeshift or RG Shift?

    Both.

    I am currently running a prismatic scapeshift and it does stupidly good against most decks.
    3 Cryptic Command
    3 Cultivate
    2 Explore
    4 Mana Leak
    2 Negate
    2 Ponder
    2 Preordain
    4 Prismatic Omen
    4 Rampant Growth
    4 Scapeshift
    4 Wargate


    2 Celestial Colonnade
    4 Forest
    4 Island
    4 Misty Rainforest
    2 Murmuring Bosk
    1 Plains
    2 Seaside Citadel
    4 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
    3 Verdant Catacombs


    SB
    3 Firespout
    3 Great Sable Stag
    4 Kitchen Finks
    3 Nature's Claim
    2 Spell Pierce

    On a side note, I am putting together an extended pyromancer.dec, not sure how I want to do this yet though...
    3 Blightning
    2 Call to Mind
    2 Cryptic Command
    4 Into the Roil
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Mana Leak
    4 Ponder
    4 Preordain
    4 Pyromancer Ascension
    3 Thoughtseize
    4 Time Warp

    3 Cascade Bluffs
    3 Halimar Depths
    3 Island
    3 Mountain
    4 Scalding Tarn
    3 Sunken Ruins
    3 Tectonic Edge


    SB
    2 Demolish
    3 Negate
    1 Pithing Needle
    2 Ratchet Bomb
    4 Spell Pierce
    2 Volcanic Fallout
    1 Volition Reins

    deveric on
  • ChenChen Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    You probably want Manamorphose in there somewhere. And maybe See Beyond as additional card draw to dig for Ascensions. Lose the Blightnings, Thoughtseizes, Sunken Ruins and Tectonic Edges as you want to go off as soon as possible. Into the Roil is an inferior Cryptic Command so that too perhaps. Burst Lightning is invaluable against aggro, Jund and even Faeries. Pestermite + Splinter Twin or Polymorph + Spawning Breath might be nice in the SB for a surprise transformation, especially when you're facing a lot of enchantment hate since Prismatic Omens is crazy popular now.

    Chen on
    V0Gug2h.png
  • devericdeveric MinneapolisRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Chen wrote: »
    You probably want Manamorphose in there somewhere. And maybe See Beyond as additional card draw to dig for Ascensions. Lose the Blightnings, Thoughtseizes, Sunken Ruins and Tectonic Edges as you want to go off as soon as possible. Into the Roil is an inferior Cryptic Command so that too perhaps. Burst Lightning is invaluable against aggro, Jund and even Faeries. Pestermite + Splinter Twin or Polymorph + Spawning Breath might be nice in the SB for a surprise transformation, especially when you're facing a lot of enchantment hate since Prismatic Omens is crazy popular now.

    thanks, like I said, just trying to piece it together. I'll play around with it and see what comes out

    deveric on
  • DiorinixDiorinix Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    4 Time Warp are not necessary. You can realistically cut it to 2, or use the tech from the Aussie's at world's and run Jace's Ingenuity instead. Drawing 3, instantly, is a beautiful thing with pyromancer.

    4 cryptics are a must, as are manamorphose. It's really awesome to manamorphose into a mana leak or volcanic fallout when your opponent thinks he's got you.

    Anecdote time:

    Playing a small extended 8-man at the LGS yesterday. Won round 1 against mono red, and facing doran for round 2. Lost game 1 to nut draw (treefolk harbinger into harbinger/harbinger into doran) and I didn't keep a hand with lightning bolts...just a fallout and burst. Game 2 I lost in spectacular fashion and threw me on tilt for the last match. Kept a hand with mountains and reflecting pool, manamorphose, flashfreeze and bolt. He gets 2 harbingers down and I know a doran is on the way. I still haven't drawn a blue source. He casts doran, I morphose into UR and flashfreeze it. I pass the turn with a bolt and burst lightning in hand, cuz I know it'd suck to be blown out by a 2nd doran. He proceeds to cast it and attack, at which point I kill doran in response to the attack. I get my blue source on the draw off a fetchland, cast a preordain to set up my next turn (got a pyromancer ascension). Then he casts his 3rd doran and a quasali pridemage. I'm on a 2 turn clock, and I know what my next draw is. It is not mass removal.

    ARRRG. Who keeps a hand with 3 dorans, or gets lucky enough to draw 2 extra ones!??!

    Diorinix on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Mmmmm....toasty.
  • ChenChen Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    That's why it's nice to have a transformational sideboard as a contingency plan. That or play Twisted Image. :P

    Chen on
    V0Gug2h.png
  • devericdeveric MinneapolisRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Thanks for the feedback, here is how it looks now:

    4 Burst Lightning
    2 Call to Mind
    4 Cryptic Command
    3 Jace's Ingenuity
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Mana Leak
    4 Manamorphose
    4 Ponder
    4 Preordain
    4 Pyromancer Ascension
    2 Time Warp

    3 Cascade Bluffs
    3 Halimar Depths
    5 Island
    4 Mountain
    2 Reliquary Tower
    4 Scalding Tarn

    I need some sort of bounce/removal in the SB against Leyline of Santicty, maybe I'll put the into the roil there, any other suggestions? I'm not as familiar with the Lorwyn block.

    EDIT: I never pay attention to CC, I always used it for card draw and counter. sigh

    deveric on
  • DiorinixDiorinix Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Chen wrote: »
    That's why it's nice to have a transformational sideboard as a contingency plan. That or play Twisted Image. :P

    I won my game 2 against the mono red guy with a t4 pestermite/splinter twin combo. Buddy didn't have a clue why I flashed pestermite into play on his turn to tap down his untapped mountain. When splinter twin came down he just groaned.

    Diorinix on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Mmmmm....toasty.
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Did anyone else get their last envelope of mail rewards? I want that elf so hard. Black/green elves is like my old school favoritest type of deck.

    Darkewolfe on
    What is this I don't even.
  • VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Did anyone else get their last envelope of mail rewards? I want that elf so hard. Black/green elves is like my old school favoritest type of deck.

    I got mine (Glissa), and my wife got hers (Hero of Bladehold).

    Fortunately all you need to do to get a (foil, promo art) Glissa is sign up as a Phyrexian at a prerelease on the 29th/30th.

    Vyolynce on
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  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Did anyone else get their last envelope of mail rewards? I want that elf so hard. Black/green elves is like my old school favoritest type of deck.

    I haven't yet, but considering that I only attended pre-releases while they were being sent out, I'm not expecting anything great. Hell, something at all would be nice.

    But as for the glissa and hero, I think I'll be hitting two pre-release flights just for one of each of those. Glissa'll fit nicely into a Black/Green EDH deck I've got, and the Hero'll fit nicely into my Soldier/Knight mono-white EDH deck. Which is actually kind of sad/funny, because I never even got to play the regular Knight deck before it got butchered for sleeves and efficient white creatures.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • devericdeveric MinneapolisRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    EDH tonight, rite of replication kicker took out a table, was fun. Mmm, five angels of despair

    deveric on
  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    deveric wrote: »
    EDH tonight, rite of replication kicker took out a table, was fun. Mmm, five angels of despair
    Don't you mean six? One original plus the five copies?

    Mr_Rose on
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  • devericdeveric MinneapolisRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    deveric wrote: »
    EDH tonight, rite of replication kicker took out a table, was fun. Mmm, five angels of despair
    Don't you mean six? One original plus the five copies?

    It was opponents creature

    deveric on
  • VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Some friends of mine averted some eye-watering math the other day with a well-timed Boomerang.

    Which targeted a Hamletback Goliath. In response to a kicked Rite being aimed at it.

    Vyolynce on
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    AC:NH Chris from Glosta SW-5173-3598-2899 DA-4749-1014-4697 @vyolynce@mastodon.social
  • DiorinixDiorinix Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Diorinix on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Mmmmm....toasty.
  • VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Diorinix wrote: »

    Yeah, but that situation is so much easier than kicked Hamletback, since that one has various permutations depending on what order the triggers go on the stack...

    If the controller of the Rite is also the controller of the original giant, then I know it can get up to 8560/8560 with some careful trigger management.

    Vyolynce on
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    AC:NH Chris from Glosta SW-5173-3598-2899 DA-4749-1014-4697 @vyolynce@mastodon.social
  • StarcrossStarcross Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Kicked Rite on Ink-Treader Nephilim is fun too. Though slightly less silly than our other ideas.

    Starcross on
  • VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Starcross wrote: »
    Kicked Rite on Ink-Treader Nephilim is fun too. Though slightly less silly than our other ideas.

    My same group of friends (who live JUST far enough away that I'm not part of their regular playgroup) once played EDH Planechase and had a kicked Rite on the Glimmervoid Basin (think "Radiate world"), which is pretty much the same effect. In the words of one: "SUDDENLY, MULLDRIFTERS."

    Vyolynce on
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  • DiorinixDiorinix Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Vyolynce wrote: »
    Diorinix wrote: »

    Yeah, but that situation is so much easier than kicked Hamletback, since that one has various permutations depending on what order the triggers go on the stack...

    If the controller of the Rite is also the controller of the original giant, then I know it can get up to 8560/8560 with some careful trigger management.

    Sure enough, but I thought I'd throw this one in there for other folks looking for the answers. Tried to find an online solution to the hamletback goliath interaction with a kicked rite, but no luck at the time. However, I did come across the precursor golem answer a couple months back and this link has the most straightforward explanation.

    Diorinix on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Mmmmm....toasty.
  • VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Diorinix wrote: »
    Tried to find an online solution to the hamletback goliath interaction with a kicked rite, but no luck at the time.

    As I mentioned, it really depends on what you want to do and how you stack the triggers. When I worked it out, trying to make the biggest original giant I could (assuming the same controller as the Rite) I got 8560/8560; the other five in this scenario were 2500/2500, 1920/1920, 1700/1700, 1405/1405, and the baby at a mere 1030/1030. That might not even be the "best" answer, although it's still ridiculous even if there's a higher total out there. If the original is owned by an opponent, then it can only be 30/30 because the non-active players' triggers go on the stack last and resolve first and only the copies' triggers are relevant.

    The "easiest" way to handle this situation -- if it's ever allowed to happen at your table -- is to just write down the triggers from each copy in the form of NtY, where N is the triggering giant's number and Y is the giant determining the value of X in the trigger (e.g., 3t4 is the third giant's trigger checking the power of the 4th giant). Then you have the controller of those triggers stack them however (s)he wants and just do the math from there one trigger at a time.

    It's a horror-show of numbers, but the only complicated part is actually attempting to do something with the triggers when you put them on the stack. For most purposes throwing them on the stack semi-randomly will still produce at least one truly outrageous fatty. Even resolving each giant's triggers in a single batch will make Eldrazi-dwarfing epic titans: the first is 25/25 (4 triggers of 5), the second 45/45 (3 triggers of 5 plus one of 25), the third 90/90 (25 + 45 + 5 + 5), the fourth 170 (25 + 45 + 90 + 5), and the last one is 335/335.

    There are a crazy number of possible iterations here; I think 20! if I'm not mistaken (25! if the original's triggers matter), but I could be. If you want to do that work to determine the single "best" solution, be my guest. :)

    Vyolynce on
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  • DiorinixDiorinix Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Aren't hamletbacks 6/6 to start? So shouldn't any iteration of the triggers resolve in such a way as to have the result divisible by 6?

    Diorinix on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Mmmmm....toasty.
  • DirtyDirtyVagrantDirtyDirtyVagrant Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Friend is trying to get me to build a standard deck. I haven't played since tenth edition.

    I'm looking at building something around alluring sirens and diminish. But I am pretty clueless.

    Just posting.

    Really kind of wish I could just play with whatever cards. I mean I get that cards fall out of legality for a reason. Mostly to cover the designer's asses for rares out of different blocks that combo to break the game. And to encourage card sales. But damn.

    DirtyDirtyVagrant on
  • VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Diorinix wrote: »
    Aren't hamletbacks 6/6 to start? So shouldn't any iteration of the triggers resolve in such a way as to have the result divisible by 6?

    Because I failed to check that minor detail, obviously. :oops:

    The math is SO much cleaner when it's a 5/5, but the point still stands.

    Vyolynce on
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    AC:NH Chris from Glosta SW-5173-3598-2899 DA-4749-1014-4697 @vyolynce@mastodon.social
  • FiggyFiggy Fighter of the night man Champion of the sunRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    A few question on rules that came up today. I think I satisfied them with a quick search on the official site, but just to be certain:

    Abilities on cards such as this can be cast just like an instant and as many times as you can afford, correct?

    A creature can be sacrificed during the combat damage phase, correct? For example, I attack with Fume Spitter, blockers are declared, then I sacrifice it to place a -1/-1 counter on the creature blocking me? Or whatever target?

    With Chandra's Spitfire, her +3/+0 triggers for each instance of noncombat damage to my opponent, correct? For instance, I have two Prodigal Pyromancers on the battlefield, I tap them both to each deal 1 damage to my opponent, giving Chandra's Spitfire +6/+0?

    Figgy on
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  • DirtyDirtyVagrantDirtyDirtyVagrant Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Yes, I'm pretty sure.

    Also yes. Also pretty sure. In FACT, I'm halfway certain that you can attack, be blocked, have the combat damage go on the stack, and then sack it for another effective point of damage afterward (Allowing your 1/1 to take down an X/2)

    And yes. I'm 99% sure that ability works that way.

    DirtyDirtyVagrant on
  • FiggyFiggy Fighter of the night man Champion of the sunRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Yes, I'm pretty sure.

    Also yes. Also pretty sure. In FACT, I'm halfway certain that you can attack, be blocked, have the combat damage go on the stack, and then sack it for another effective point of damage afterward (Allowing your 1/1 to take down an X/2)

    And yes. I'm 99% sure that ability works that way.

    I'm a complete newb, so I may be wrong, but I think this rule was changed for the 2010 series onward, and combat damage is no longer part of the stack. So "exploits" like this are no longer possible, and instead the combat damage doesn't resolve because the creature no longer exists.

    Figgy on
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