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Best Korea and Dear Leader's Howitzers

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Posts

  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks License Number 137596Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    my family and me are gonna try to leave the city before traffic gets worst. So far we keep hearing alarms and all sorts of military vehicles moving around. the news channel so far has said that SK forces are moving to the border to repel NK aggressors. Also StarCraft tournament has been postponed.

    Priorities.

    Also, "News Agency MBC" is saying that the DPRK is moving a naval fleet toward South Korea.

  • chidonachidona Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    From BBC:

    "A spokesman for the Chinese foreign ministry said that both countries should "do more to contribute to peace".

    "What's imperative now is to restart six-party talks as soon as possible," Hong Lei told a news conference in Beijing."

    Honestly China, why not react to what's actually going on rather than ignoring it and trotting out some irrelevant line.

    This is very bad news though, especially given the whole 'NK has a lot more nuclear shit going on than we thought' revalation a couple of days ago.

  • powersurgepowersurge Registered User
    edited November 2010
    my family and me are gonna try to leave the city before traffic gets worst. So far we keep hearing alarms and all sorts of military vehicles moving around. the news channel so far has said that SK forces are moving to the border to repel NK aggressors. Also StarCraft tournament has been postponed.

    Priorities.

    Also, "News Agency MBC" is saying that the DPRK is moving a naval fleet toward South Korea.

    Source? Only got 4 hours sleep couldn't fall back asleep get up to check the news and all hell has broken loose in the few hours I've been asleep D:

  • JintorJintor Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    MBC is a Korean TV station I believe, but since it's all in Korean we're basically listening to Twitter feeds at this point

    Reuters is carrying the second man dead info, by the way

  • MyDcmbrMyDcmbr Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Ignore from whence this quote came:
    FauxNews wrote:
    Breaking News: S. Korea Says N. Korea's 'Intentional' Attack Violates 1953 Armistice Agreement

    D:

    Steam
    So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.
  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks License Number 137596Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    If anyone's interested, you can see an Al Jazeera live feed in English here.

  • ChronocideChronocide Registered User
    edited November 2010
    Yeah so, this sucks balls. Let's see how the international community postures themselves after this. Being Austraian, I wonder if we'll jump on the coat-tails of our allies if shit gets biz-ay.

  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I chose a great time to come to Korea. At least Busan is about as far away from the border as it gets.

    2ezikn6.jpg
  • MyDcmbrMyDcmbr Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I chose a great time to come to Korea. At least Busan is about as far away from the border as it gets.

    Hey!

    That's where my car was made. <3

    And yes, if shiz get rolling of course the Aussies will get into the thick of it. Trans-Pacific bro bump.

    Steam
    So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.
  • South hostSouth host I obey without question Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    First one taken from the SE++ thread:
    Military Nerd uses Google Earth to assess North Korean artillery and air defense:
    http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?162240-Bluffer-s-Guide-North-Korea-strikes!-(2009)

    GlobalSecurity.Org's page with a summary of North Korean Weapons:
    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/

    I believe this is the Google Earth Plug-in that shows all of the North Korean military sites, infrastructure, etc. I can't be sure, my computer is being...wonky right now.
    http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showthreaded&Number=861907&site_id=1#import

    Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
  • His CorkinessHis Corkiness Registered User
    edited November 2010
    Jintor wrote: »
    MBC is a Korean TV station I believe, but since it's all in Korean we're basically listening to Twitter feeds at this point

    Reuters is carrying the second man dead info, by the way
    That twitter feed is bogus, it seems, and MBC hasn't mentioned anything about a fleet.

  • chidonachidona Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    From BBC:

    " North Korea claims that South Korea fired first in Tuesday's clash, North Korean state media reports."

    Shocker, really. It'll be interesting to see how they elaborate on that.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    The world, still going to hell. I should go to bed and hope sanity breaks out by the time I get up.

    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • Caveman PawsCaveman Paws Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    South was doing military exercises, concluded exercises and left, and then NK opens up (according to Al Jazeera stream).

    Hopefully it boils down to a giant mistake.

  • JintorJintor Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    SEOUL, South Korea (AP) -- North Korea is threatening to continue launching strikes against South Korea if it violates their disputed sea border "even 0.001 millimeter."

    North Korea's supreme military command said Tuesday that it would "launch merciless military retaliatory strikes."

    The warning was carried by North Korea's official Korean Central News Agency.

    The comments followed North Korea's bombardment of a South Korean island near their disputed western border Tuesday. South Korean officials said the barrage set buildings ablaze and killed at least one marine after the North warned the South to halt military drills in the area.

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_KOREAS_CLASH?SITE=AZMES&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

  • SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Loren Michael is over in South Korea now.

    He'll probably be able to give us the full report if he wanders in.

    Being walkers with the dawn and morning,
    Walkers with the sun and morning, we are not afraid of night,
    Nor days of gloom, nor darkness -
    Being walkers with the sun and morning.
  • EVOLEVOL Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    The gist of the story:

    S.Korea conducted drills around the island, which is pretty damn near the borders.

    N.Korea, who have been pretty damn irate and sensitive to these kinds of things lately, tells S.Korea to get the fuck out.

    S.Korea says fuck you back.

    N.Korea fires.


    S.Korea was pretty much asking for it in a way, really. With the relations between the two countries so damn strained at the moment, pulling out, or at least moving the army just a bit would've done S.Korea lots more good in the long run, since N.Korea wouldn't have had their chance/excuse to go trigger-happy on S.Korea's land.

    The fact that our government(I'm S.Korean) seems to think that we'd actually fucking win against N.Korea, and is actively aggravating N.Korea doesn't help. So much for all the work the last two presidents done to calm relationships between us and N.Korea.

  • Mortal SkyMortal Sky FONOTUNE Electric FairytaleRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    God dammit and I was about to take a trip to korea tomorrow

    Kochikens wrote: »
    oh man I saw an otter with a boner at the seattle one and this kid asked his dad, IS HE EATING A HOT DOG
    and I laughed forever
  • L|amaL|ama Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    EVOL wrote: »
    The fact that our government(I'm S.Korean) seems to think that we'd actually fucking win against N.Korea

    Well, you would. It's just a question of what percentage of your population would die beforehand.

  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Speaker wrote: »
    Loren Michael is over in South Korea now.

    He'll probably be able to give us the full report if he wanders in.

    Everyone's pretty chill about it way down south as far as I can tell. Beyond that though, my access to news is about as good as anyone's given the language barrier.

    One of my coworker's friends worked on the island though. She's kinda shaken up.

    2ezikn6.jpg
  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    EVOL wrote: »
    The fact that our government(I'm S.Korean) seems to think that we'd actually fucking win against N.Korea, and is actively aggravating N.Korea doesn't help. So much for all the work the last two presidents done to calm relationships between us and N.Korea.

    My impression is that there would almost certainly be a South Korean victory, though they would sustain massive civilian casualties.

    2ezikn6.jpg
  • EchoEcho very gravitas Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited November 2010
    Isn't his son even more deranged than he is?

    The Onion has it covered!

    Goddamn crazy country.

    Or rather, goddamn crazy leadership of a country with a population kept isolated and indoctrinated but otherwise innocent.

  • Saint MadnessSaint Madness Registered User
    edited November 2010
    Time for China to show its hand.

  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I don't see how you could possibly blame the South for this.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • CasedOutCasedOut Registered User
    edited November 2010
    All I have to say is, lets hope this doesnt affect the GSL.


    (am I a bad person?)

    452773-1.png
  • TorgoTorgo Registered User
    edited November 2010
    Hey! Long time Korean resident here.

    Around the office I heard that North Korea had sent a message that the planned South Korean military drills on the disputed border of the West Sea (where shit like this goes down all the time in the past) was going to be considered "An Act of War". Depending on if they are trying to eek out from negotiations, sneezing, not loving Kim Jong Il as much as they do, and Tuesdays are ALSO considered "An Act of War" by North Korea. It's usually all bravado, very little bite. Since South Korea usually just ignores these frequent North Korean press releases, they went ahead with military drill. It got fired upon by artillery, and they struck not only soldiers participating in the drill, but also the island not far from where it was taking place. That's when shit "got real", as most of the time military conflicts do not involve civilians in the area. This is a big line for North Korea to cross. (Well, they have shot down South Korean airliners before...)
    June 1999—South Korean navy sinks a North Korean ship in firefight on the maritime border in the Yellow Sea west of the Koreas, precise casualties unknown but at least 18 North Koreans are presumed killed.
    November 2001—North Korean soldiers fire at a South Korean guardpost in the demilitarized zone and South Koreans return fire. No injuries reported.
    June 2002—North Korea sinks a South Korean frigate in a clash involving several ships from both sides. Six South Korean sailors and an estimated 13 North Koreans are killed.
    July 2003—North Korean soldiers fire machine guns at a South Korean observation post in the DMZ, and South Korea soldiers fire back. No injuries reported.
    April 2005—North Korea announces a South Korean soldier fired a shot at a North Korean border post in the DMZ. No injuries reported.
    May 2006—South Korean soldiers in the DMZ fire warning shots at two North Korean soldiers who cross into South Korean territory. No one injured.
    Oct. 2006—South Korean soldiers fired 40 warning shots at five North Korean soldiers who entered South Korean territory. No one was injured.
    Nov. 2009—A South Korean naval patrol boat inflicted heavy damage on a North Korean military vessel near the countries' maritime border in the Yellow Sea. Unknown number of North Koreans injured.
    Jan. 2010—North Korea fired land-based artillery rounds into water near the inter-Korean border in the Yellow Sea.
    March 2010—South Korean warship Cheonan sinks, killing 46 sailors, near a South Korea-controlled island several miles south of the maritime border in the Yellow Sea. Investigation turns up remnants of a North Korean torpedo at the sinking site.
    Oct. 2010—North Korean soldiers fire two shots near a South Korean guard post in the DMZ. South Korean soldiers fire three shots back. No one was injured.
    Nov. 23, 2010—North Korea fired artillery rockets at South Korea's Yeonpyeong island near a disputed border, setting houses on fire and prompting the south to return fire and dispatch fighter jets to the area. One South Korean marine was killed.

    This is a chance at deliberate, bold provocation to get attention. It's pretty ballsy, but North Korea is in bad shape. There are succession issues for Kim Jong Il's son, and whatever else that is driving this internally within the military, but realistically even the most fatalistic of those in the North Korean power structure do not want war. The corrupt people at the top of the regime have everything to lose and nothing to gain. The revealing of the Yongbyeong processing facilities are a direct "FUCK YOU" to the West. North Korea wants concessions, or direct talks with the USA. They haven't gotten the attention they feel they deserve, so they are raising the bar towards the West. If they don't ratchet up their provocation, they don't get any attention.

    The South Korean economy has weathered the recent recession well, and investment has been good. The Korean Stock Exchange has been doing well recently compared to neighbors. This could be currency manipulation and economic warfare, which it will have a cooling effect on South Korea's growth. It's hard to get investors in a country were you have to worry the neighbor's up north might pull shit like this from time to time. North Korea might be timing currency purchases and profiting from their actions.

    People here are more concerned than normal, I'd say. Normally shit doesn't escalate this far, but no one expects continued conflict. My male students are all of conscription age were a bit worried about the news. Normally there isn't any talk of the latest provocation by the North, but it had people talking today.

    I will tell you that a North Korean analysts my coworker teaches, and the students I teach connected to the enlisted in the military in an advisory role to the South Korean army were not in class today. Maybe they had something else to do, or maybe they were skipping class in a total coincidence. I don't know. The President and the War Advisors were in underground bunkers.

    History is a spoiler for the future. (Me on Twitter)
  • ArtreusArtreus Hey kids, want some drugs?Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Time for China to show its hand.

    China has shown its hand

    Also I saw somewhere in here that the South ordered airstrikes. There were no airstrikes. Jets were scrambled but that was it. (In addition to the return shelling I mean)

    http://atlanticus.tumblr.com/ PSN: Atlanticus 3DS: 1590-4692-3954 Steam: Artreus
  • krapst78krapst78 Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I'm living in the southern part of Seoul (in Samseong-dong and basically 150 meters from where they held the G20 conference a couple weeks ago) and it was mostly business as usual around here. Right now, the salary men around here are more concerned that the United Arab Emirates just scored a goal on the Korean team in the football match for the Asiads. Not a single co-worker even mentioned the attacks all day, although that might be because it was a busier than normal day for us. Even at my jiu-jitsu class, most of the students barely mentioned it, and the topic was more about the dead marines and whether they might be called up for reserve duty, but they didn't seem too concerned. None of the major networks are showing any breaking news right now (10:30pm), and the only station currently showing a news show (KBS) has a story about school children and online bullying. I've noticed that most Koreans in Seoul simply react to these stories like they would to an embarrassing drunk relative causing a commotion at a family gathering.

    Hello! My name is Inigo Montoya! You killed my father prepare to die!
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    krapst78 wrote: »
    I'm living in the southern part of Seoul (in Samseong-dong and basically 150 meters from where they held the G20 conference a couple weeks ago) and it was mostly business as usual around here. Right now, the salary men around here are more concerned that the United Arab Emirates just scored a goal on the Korean team in the football match for the Asiads. Not a single co-worker even mentioned the attacks all day, although that might be because it was a busier than normal day for us. Even at my jiu-jitsu class, most of the students barely mentioned it, and the topic was more about the dead marines and whether they might be called up for reserve duty, but they didn't seem too concerned. None of the major networks are showing any breaking news right now (10:30pm), and the only station currently showing a news show (KBS) has a story about school children and online bullying. I've noticed that most Koreans in Seoul simply react to these stories like they would to an embarrassing drunk relative causing a commotion at a family gathering.

    To an extent though, isn't this somewhat like the phenomenon that people who live in the flood path of a major dam are the ones least concerned about the consequences of it bursting?

  • krapst78krapst78 Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Yeah, I definitely think there is some disassociation going on because it's already stressful enough for a lot of people trying to get by out here. I've only been living here for 5 years and I was really worried when North Korea detonated their first nuke back in 2006. I barely batted an eye when they detonated their second one last year. Honestly, I don't even remember that day, and was only reminded of it because I just looked it up on Wikipedia right now.

    The 11PM news shows have started and now they are covering the story as the main headline. They just showed clips of the artillery rounds hitting the city caught on CCTVs and phone cameras and it actually looks pretty frightening. However, they just talked live to the major of the town that was hit and he says that things have calmed down since the attacks.

    Edit. I guess they are treating this incident semi-seriously because they just ran a ticker across the bottom of the screen stating that the TV station and news crew will be on standby for the next 24 hours. The major networks here usually go off air after 3-4am.

    Hello! My name is Inigo Montoya! You killed my father prepare to die!
  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    EVOL wrote: »
    The fact that our government(I'm S.Korean) seems to think that we'd actually fucking win against N.Korea, and is actively aggravating N.Korea doesn't help. So much for all the work the last two presidents done to calm relationships between us and N.Korea.
    I believe the general consensus among military folks is that the ROK would be able to win a war against N. Korea. American military involvement makes such a victory an almost-certainty.

    Of course, even a win would be really messy for South Korea, the region in general and the world economy as a whole. And trying to fix North Korea after its government collapsed after losing such a war would be an even worse nightmare.

    Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
    Rigorous Scholarship

  • JintorJintor Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Firstly, land invasion of N.K would be a total nightmare.

    Secondly, reunification would absolutely destroy the economy.

    Thirdly... a tonne of crap I haven't even thought about yet.

  • xraydogxraydog Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I wonder what percentage of people living in NK see through the bullshit and generally want change but can't do anything about it. They can't all have fallen for the 'dear leader' nonsense.

  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    xraydog wrote: »
    I wonder what percentage of people living in NK see through the bullshit and generally want change but can't do anything about it. They can't all have fallen for the 'dear leader' nonsense.
    The government controls all information in that country. These people literally don't have access to any other viewpoints other than the ones espoused by the government. There is no dissident movement.

    Maybe a handful of people see through the bullshit. But North Korea is probably the most totalitarian and brainwashed society in human history.

    Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
    Rigorous Scholarship

  • dojangodojango Registered User
    edited November 2010
    Jintor wrote: »
    Firstly, land invasion of N.K would be a total nightmare.

    Secondly, reunification would absolutely destroy the economy.

    Thirdly... a tonne of crap I haven't even thought about yet.

    just try not to do it during winter.

    Don't be an arrogant jackass like MacArthur.

    And most importantly, get china on your side.

    Sure, it would involve lots of casualties, but it wouldn't be as terrible as the first Korean War, where the eighth american army stumbled into the Chinese ambush and was almost wiped out.

    Obviously, this would only be done as a response to a North Korean invasion. But as long as china doesn't intervene, it wouldn't be a disaster.

  • ronyaronya Arrrrrrf. the ivory tower's basementRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    On the other hand, apparently piracy of South Korean DVDs is rampant (and DVD players, and TVs, from South Korean industrial sites). So there is some insight into the material wealth of the South.

  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    ronya wrote: »
    On the other hand, apparently piracy of South Korean DVDs is rampant (and DVD players, and TVs, from South Korean industrial sites). So there is some insight into the material wealth of the South.

    There's also a shadow capitalism market going. Since all the state industries are bankrupt, people pay their companies to check them in, then they go off and earn money however they can - growing crops, fishing etc. Apparently there's a huge blackmarket for people with cellphones smuggled in from China that can make international calls.

    By and large: I'm not seriously convinced that the general population are unaware they're getting screwed. The main thing NK has succeeded at is convincing them that there's no point trying to resist.

    Though this is something I was wondering about recently: what's crime like in these totalitarian states?

  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks License Number 137596Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I'm inclined to think that the casualties caused by an invasion or North Korea now would be far better than the casualties caused by a DPRK nuke five years from now.

    As for piracy, I've heard stories that the government will intentionally cut the power to a building and then raid the apartments inside to search for foreign discs that are stuck in people's DVD players, so who knows.

  • OctoparrotOctoparrot Registered User
    edited November 2010
    Forgive my hubris but it doesn't sound that hard to drop some bombs on NK's power structure and some ham sandwiches wrapped in pamphlets everywhere else. It's not the 50's anymore.

    I don't know how SK's air power is, and China would be pissed off.

    the GOP shouldn't give a rats ass about them since they won't vote for them. If someone won't vote for you they might as well not exist.
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