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Starcraft 2: New Thread

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Posts

  • 3clipse3clipse Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    SotG preshow is amazing.

    Everyone should be listening.

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  • DragDrag Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    My last tourney games:

    drag v kedinik
    repimg-33-171735.jpg

    repimg-33-171736.jpg
    Spoiler:

    drag v meeks
    repimg-33-171737.jpg

    repimg-33-171738.jpg
    Spoiler:

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • CycloneRangerCycloneRanger Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    So what are the options to stop mass void rays again? It's pretty scary when I see it on 4 vs 4. Vikings and marines are good options for Terran... but what can a Zerg to vs mass VR? Hydras doesn't have the same mobility, and Corruptors can't beat them anymore... and you can't fungal growth them anymore either.

    What about Protoss's options? After you hit a critical mass blink stalkers just doesn't do the job anymore. Storm won't do it either when people who mass VR got armor upgrade. Phoenix does crap and Carriers won't work...
    Against 40+ void rays you will not win with any combination of zerg units post-patch. For now you can obliterate them with fungal and possibly some hydras, of course.

    Protoss are almost as badly hosed--the archon toilet bowl will work, and if he's very sloppy you might get some mileage out of psi storm, but generally you're doomed vs. that many void rays.

    Terran has a few more options--Thors will work, and without VR speed (which was removed in the patch) microed vikings will probably do as well. You need a lot of Thors, though--you'll get one volley before they're vaporized. HSM might be worth a shot, and if you're truly desperate (or inControl) you can try to get lucky with a nuke.

    MWO User Name: Gorn Arming
    StarCraft II User Name: DeadMenRise
  • SensationalSensational Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Blink stalkers counter mass VRs perfectly well, I've done it many times. The only way you can lose is if they're way ahead on upgrades or if they're all clumped up and you're marching in and getting destroyed line by line; really gotta blink under them.

  • 3clipse3clipse Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    If the Protoss has 40 Void Rays you should be just throw waves of Mutalisks at them until they break, especially now that flux vanes is being removed.

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  • LordaenLordaen Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I thought that Mutas worked fairly well against Voids. Is that not the case?

  • 3clipse3clipse Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Also we should incorporate O Fortuna into the next Rumble somehow. Because that song is made of epic and win.

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  • Beef AvengerBeef Avenger Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    tehmarken wrote: »
    I would say combinations of units. Hydras and corruptors together for zerg, and phoenixes with stalkers for protoss. If the guy is bringing out mass numbers of void rays, you should be able to get out a mixed army to deal with them.

    And static defenses. Spore crawlers and photon cannons at your mineral lines.

    corruptors are a bad choice. Voids get bonus damage, corruptors don't. Better off with mutas

  • KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    3clipse wrote: »
    Also we should incorporate O Fortuna into the next Rumble somehow. Because that song is made of epic and win.

    I like using more obscure songs.

    If I gave you the full versions of the music I used for the videos,you'd cream yourself :D

    SC2 EU ID Klyka.110
    lTDyp.jpg
  • CycloneRangerCycloneRanger Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Blink stalkers counter mass VRs perfectly well, I've done it many times. The only way you can lose is if they're way ahead on upgrades or if they're all clumped up and you're marching in and getting destroyed line by line; really gotta blink under them.
    Even with a perfect blink, you'll still lose against mass VRs. One VR is close to even with two stalkers (and with larger numbers the stalkers start to overkill, favoring VRs). With 40-50 VRs you can kill 80-100 stalkers in a straight-up fight, which represents an unrealistic food total in stalkers, anyway. Moreover, VRs gain more from upgrades than stalkers do.

    I've seen it a couple times in FFAs (esp. during that Funday Monday challenge when I couldn't make any sort of attack against the guy amassing VRs until I hunted down the other fool's last hidden hatchery). True mass VRs (not 1v1 mass VRs, which is maybe 8 or so) is one of the most powerful (and expensive) army compositions in the game.

    It's also completely retarded.

    MWO User Name: Gorn Arming
    StarCraft II User Name: DeadMenRise
  • kedinikkedinik Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Corruptors are basically dead even versus Void Rays if you dump similar resources into your fleets, they're better for VR hunting than mutas.

  • 3clipse3clipse Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    JP just did the most abrupt music switch ever.

    O Fortuna into Y'all Ready for This?

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  • GuekGuek Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    where are you guys listening in to SotG live?

  • CycloneRangerCycloneRanger Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    kedinik wrote: »
    Corruptors are basically dead even versus Void Rays if you dump similar resources into your fleets, they're better for VR hunting than mutas.
    Not with larger numbers.

    The thing about VRs is that they never overkill--the beam is instant. The most damage that can possibly be wasted is between 9 and 12 depending on upgrades and armor (and it's lower vs. non-armored targets).

    Meanwhile each volley of corruptor spores probably has a huge chunk of those shots landing on the 1-3 voids that happen to be just slightly ahead of the pack, wasting most of the damage.


    Again, none of this matters in 1v1 (because you'll never see numbers like that) or even in most team games/ffas, but when it does happen you need either multiple waves of units or some kind of AoE weapon.

    MWO User Name: Gorn Arming
    StarCraft II User Name: DeadMenRise
  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Guek wrote: »
    where are you guys listening in to SotG live?

    http://www.ustream.tv/channel/state-of-the-game

  • GuekGuek Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
  • 3clipse3clipse Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    iNcontroL mentioning Rumble in the Bronze ftw.

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  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Boxer apologised to Idra about the Grack thing?

  • Feels Good ManFeels Good Man Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    3clipse wrote: »
    iNcontroL mentioning Rumble in the Bronze ftw.

    what? you mean rumble in the bronx?

    for children.. children... oh what the fuck is it

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  • KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    3clipse wrote: »
    iNcontroL mentioning Rumble in the Bronze ftw.

    what? you mean rumble in the bronx?

    for children.. children... oh what the fuck is it

    Haha

    Incontrol cares about nothing cause he has HUGE ARMS.

    SC2 EU ID Klyka.110
    lTDyp.jpg
  • 3clipse3clipse Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Holy crap iNcontroL's dubai story.

    Jesus christ.

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  • kedinikkedinik Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    kedinik wrote: »
    Corruptors are basically dead even versus Void Rays if you dump similar resources into your fleets, they're better for VR hunting than mutas.
    Not with larger numbers.

    The thing about VRs is that they never overkill--the beam is instant. The most damage that can possibly be wasted is between 9 and 12 depending on upgrades and armor (and it's lower vs. non-armored targets).

    Meanwhile each volley of corruptor spores probably has a huge chunk of those shots landing on the 1-3 voids that happen to be just slightly ahead of the pack, wasting most of the damage.


    Again, none of this matters in 1v1 (because you'll never see numbers like that) or even in most team games/ffas, but when it does happen you need either multiple waves of units or some kind of AoE weapon.

    I'm certain that someone on this board tested 20+ void rays versus their value in corruptors and that corruptors have a slight edge as the numbers climb. I believe it was Stiggy.

    I think this test may have even occurred before the VR nerf in patch 1.2. Though he may have tested in response to the patch.


    e: By the way, what did iNcontrol say about the Battle in the Bronze?

  • KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    He said he casted it and that it was fun.

    That was it :D

    SC2 EU ID Klyka.110
    lTDyp.jpg
  • kedinikkedinik Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
  • zerg rushzerg rush Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Blink stalkers counter mass VRs perfectly well, I've done it many times. The only way you can lose is if they're way ahead on upgrades or if they're all clumped up and you're marching in and getting destroyed line by line; really gotta blink under them.
    Even with a perfect blink, you'll still lose against mass VRs. One VR is close to even with two stalkers (and with larger numbers the stalkers start to overkill, favoring VRs). With 40-50 VRs you can kill 80-100 stalkers in a straight-up fight, which represents an unrealistic food total in stalkers, anyway. Moreover, VRs gain more from upgrades than stalkers do.

    I've seen it a couple times in FFAs (esp. during that Funday Monday challenge when I couldn't make any sort of attack against the guy amassing VRs until I hunted down the other fool's last hidden hatchery). True mass VRs (not 1v1 mass VRs, which is maybe 8 or so) is one of the most powerful (and expensive) army compositions in the game.

    It's also completely retarded.

    Ironically, mass carriers is one of the few things that can beat mass void rays, depending on who has the upgrade advantage.

  • Dropping LoadsDropping Loads Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Klyka wrote: »
    nealcm wrote: »
    the cheese is the best

    Is that the one where he shows up w/ zergling when the other guy has colossus?

    That one's pretty sweet too =)

    "]The RUSH
    "]The CHEESE

    Thanks for linking this =) I hadn't actually seen that "The Cheese" video. So awesome, I want to by Kylka when I grow up =)

    Sceptre: Penny Arcade, where you get starcraft AND marriage advice.
    3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
  • LordaenLordaen Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Oh god the flip flops again.

  • SaarutoSaaruto Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    iNcontroL. Simply masterful.

    If you can chill, chill.
    Steam ID
  • CycloneRangerCycloneRanger Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    kedinik wrote: »
    kedinik wrote: »
    Corruptors are basically dead even versus Void Rays if you dump similar resources into your fleets, they're better for VR hunting than mutas.
    Not with larger numbers.

    The thing about VRs is that they never overkill--the beam is instant. The most damage that can possibly be wasted is between 9 and 12 depending on upgrades and armor (and it's lower vs. non-armored targets).

    Meanwhile each volley of corruptor spores probably has a huge chunk of those shots landing on the 1-3 voids that happen to be just slightly ahead of the pack, wasting most of the damage.


    Again, none of this matters in 1v1 (because you'll never see numbers like that) or even in most team games/ffas, but when it does happen you need either multiple waves of units or some kind of AoE weapon.

    I'm certain that someone on this board tested 20+ void rays versus their value in corruptors and that corruptors have a slight edge as the numbers climb. I believe it was Stiggy.

    I think this test may have even occurred before the VR nerf in patch 1.2. Though he may have tested in response to the patch.


    e: By the way, what did iNcontrol say about the Battle in the Bronze?
    Stiggy and I did those tests, and I believe it was carriers vs. corruptors in which the corruptors won. I think corruptors did better than mutas, though, against VRs. It's possible I'm remembering this wrong.

    Also, we only tested up to 100 food, I think. Might be worth doing again as the units have changed since then. Looking at the numbers:

    Corruptors vs VRs:

    Corruptors: 200 hp, 2 armor, 7.36 dps
    VR: 250 hp, 0 armor, 13.33 dps

    They're very even in small numbers (a VR is just slightly less expensive than 1.5 corruptors), but with larger numbers the VRs' lack of overkill becomes a dominating advantage. Also, I've ignored the VRs charge here--in small groups the VRs will get charged up and claim an advantage over the corruptors. In huge masses they're unlikely to ever charge, but again, that lack of overkill makes up for it.

    MWO User Name: Gorn Arming
    StarCraft II User Name: DeadMenRise
  • zerg rushzerg rush Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    kedinik wrote: »
    I'm certain that someone on this board tested 20+ void rays versus their value in corruptors and that corruptors have a slight edge as the numbers climb. I believe it was Stiggy.

    I think this test may have even occurred before the VR nerf in patch 1.2. Though he may have tested in response to the patch.


    e: By the way, what did iNcontrol say about the Battle in the Bronze?

    Uncharged Void Rays do 180% as much damage as they did pre-1.2. VR vs Corruptors in huge numbers used to be good for VRs because they'd never get charged. But now, VRs will beat corruptors even when uncharged. And VRs just better against corruptors as you add more numbers to each side.

    VRs will always beat equal food Corruptors. And the cost difference between them is so minor as to be negligible. VRs also benefit more from upgrades more than corruptors do.

  • 3clipse3clipse Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    This SotG is amazing.

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  • CycloneRangerCycloneRanger Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    zerg rush wrote: »
    kedinik wrote: »
    I'm certain that someone on this board tested 20+ void rays versus their value in corruptors and that corruptors have a slight edge as the numbers climb. I believe it was Stiggy.

    I think this test may have even occurred before the VR nerf in patch 1.2. Though he may have tested in response to the patch.


    e: By the way, what did iNcontrol say about the Battle in the Bronze?

    Uncharged Void Rays do 180% as much damage as they did pre-1.2. VR vs Corruptors in huge numbers used to be good for VRs because they'd never get charged. But now, VRs will beat corruptors even when uncharged. And VRs just better against corruptors as you add more numbers to each side.

    VRs will always beat equal food Corruptors. And the cost difference between them is so minor as to be negligible. VRs also benefit more from upgrades more than corruptors do.
    Minor nitpick--with VRs vs. Corruptors equal upgrades won't change the outcome. The VR gains more DPS from attack upgrades than the Corruptor, but it also loses more DPS from the Corruptor's armor upgrades. 3/3 VRs vs 3/3 Corruptors is identical to 0/0 VRs vs. 0/0 Corruptors (unless the VRs charge, in which case the upgrades *do* heavily favor them).

    Someone massing VRs is likely to have an upgrade or two on someone reacting to them with Corruptors, though.

    MWO User Name: Gorn Arming
    StarCraft II User Name: DeadMenRise
  • VariableVariable Ted Hitler Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    holy shit artosis is on

    BNet-Vari#1998 | WiiU-Variable | 3DS-3866-8105-7478 | Steam | Twitch
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  • Feels Good ManFeels Good Man Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Variable wrote: »
    holy shit artosis is on

    yeah it's day9, jp, incontrol, artosis, and idra


    good group



    tyler is a fucking jerk and is absent

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  • kedinikkedinik Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I was curious so I played around with Void Rays vs Corruptors and/or Mutas, and yeah you're right DMR.

    Equalized for gas 30 corruptors leave ~5 void rays alive out of 20. Equalized for gas mutalisks get thrashed, not even close.

    Didn't try equalizing for minerals, since gas is much more commonly the limiting factor. Though if zerg has an extra base mining gas they could handle the VRs with mineral-equalized corruptor numbers.

    Though now I'm thinking that with realistic numbers in a 1v1, corruptors might be able to use clumping and burst damage to kite void rays thanks to the loss of flux vanes. It's really a huge VR nerf, situational damage boost notwithstanding.

  • VariableVariable Ted Hitler Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Variable wrote: »
    holy shit artosis is on

    yeah it's day9, jp, incontrol, artosis, and idra


    good group



    tyler is a fucking jerk and is absent

    it's almost perfect, then

    tyler is the best

    BNet-Vari#1998 | WiiU-Variable | 3DS-3866-8105-7478 | Steam | Twitch
    Sig%20-%20Hearthstone%20DoA.png
  • SaarutoSaaruto Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Unfortunately I won't be signing up for my signature first round loss this time around.

    If you can chill, chill.
    Steam ID
  • kedinikkedinik Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I think Geoff just lost his cool on the stream.

    Not hahah sarcastic rudeness, just shouting and swearing.

  • 3clipse3clipse Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Because IdrA and Artosis are just arguing by saying "No you're wrong you haven't done it you can't possibly be right your arguments suck." And then saying that his arguments are invalid because he's not in Korea.

    Basically IdrA is arguing like a douche and Artosis is backing him up.

    It's frustrating to argue against that.

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