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PC game tourneys
uc4life
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I am kinda in charge of getting the PC tourney at PAX setup. I have some ideas of my own but i wanted to hear what games you were looking to play.
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probably not much cs or any hl mod, im trying to stay in the 21st century.
also, ut2k4 is already taken care of, no need to suggest it
The scheduling allocates 10 hours each day for tournaments, which is plenty to run a total of six tournaments (three per day). For 1v1 or 2v2 events, double elimination (or single-elimination for first or second rounds, then double-elimination for later rounds) could be used due to how quick the matches tend to be (15-20 minutes), but for team events single-elimination would be required due to the extra time it takes for two teams to all join the correct server and the longer matches (a Counter-Strike match usually takes anywhere from 25-60 minutes).
Luckily, PC games tend to have well-accepted rules due to the frequency they are used in online or LAN tournaments. Here's a somewhat complete list broken down by category.
Tournament standard games:
Unreal Tournament 2004 (1v1 DM, 2v2 TDM, 4v4 TDM, 5v5 Onslaught)
Warcraft 3: The Frozen Throne (1v1, 2v2)
Counter-Strike (5v5)
All of these games are standard among LAN competitions as well as big name events like World Cyber Games and the Cyberathelete Professional League. Being standard at competitions means that there will always be people interested in competing in the tournaments, and many of these competitors will be very skilled. For pure skill events, these three games are a must . A possibility would be to include UT2004 as two events, as different formats (1v1 or team games) make for extremely different tournaments, as well as interest a vastly different type of player.
"Second place" tourney games:
Call of Duty (6v6)
Starcraft: Brood Wars (1v1, 2v2)
Quake 3 (1v1 DM)
Halo
Both Starcraft and Quake 3 had their time in the spotlight, being some of the strongest games for competition. Now support is fading for the games as newer versions of similar games are more popular and are getting more tourney support (UT2004 over Quake 3, Warcraft 3 over Starcraft). It'd be tough to really justify using one of these over the newer game, but they still could get a decent draw and have good competition rulesets.
Call of Duty is a newer game, but falls into the same category. Counter-Strike is still seen as the superior "tactical shooter" due to balance and gameplay reasons, not to mention the unwavering support of the game's community as well as the folks who run the larger tournaments. Both CS and CoD are very similar games, and many events opt for one or the other and very rarely both (although, the CPL is using both CS and CoD this Summer). CoD would be the most justifiable pick of all three games in this category due to being the newest, but the team size might be prohibitive due to the somewhat smallish nature of the LAN (200 or so people). You'd be hard-pressed to fill 8 team bracket for CoD, while CS would easily net 12-16 teams at a 200 person event.
Halo also is a newer game, but is one that lacks competitive depth that makes UT2004, Quake 3, and other deathmatch-style FPSes good at tournaments. There's almost no reason to include this game as a PC tournament when you have UT2004 and Quake 3 to choose from, as well as Halo on the Xbox (which is an already scheduled tournament).
"Fun" LAN games:
Battlefield 1942 (8v8)
Savage (8v8)
These games are included merely because people like them. None are good competitive platforms for many reasons (many many many!), and as a result have been almost ignored entirely by every large or major PC Gaming tournament in the world. Still, people like to play these games and some people believe that as long as a game has people who want to play it, it'll make for a good tournament. I don't believe that in the slightest, but these games are included for completeness. Team sizes are rather prohibitive for both Savage and Battlefield 1942, so usually oddball formats (ones that aren't used in the official leagues for those games) are used to accomidate smaller teams. As a result, you basically get tiny deathmatch games instead of teamwork-based battles that the games were intended to have. Oh yes, smell that teamwork when you can't even see a friendly in visual range!
Expect more input (even if you don't want!
Just to put things in perspective, Counter-Strike currently has more LAN tournaments in the world than all PC games combined, Counter-Strike has more players as the top twelve most popular games combined (http://www.gamespy.com/stats), and I think it's safe to assume that Counter-Strike is a game that many Penny Arcade fans love to play just based on mathematical probability alone. I'm arguing for the game to be included not because I like it or want to participate in the tournament (it's fun, but too random for my tastes), but because without it you will have many people like Plutoxin disappointed that the most common game at LAN tournaments does not have a tournament at the PAX.
There is time for six PC Game tournaments, and it might be stretching to fill the allocated time if you're going to nix the most popular competitive game. Even when using the most popular competitive games, and having a seperate tournament for UT2004 1v1/2v2 and Onslaught, you'd still have plenty of room for two more games. Judging by the rather short list of tournament-friendly PC games, that's a lot of selection.
No need to be picky, especially when it could piss off quite a few people.
If anything Raven Shield might be a fun tourney game.
Also: what do you guys think of Rise of Nations, i was looking for a good non-fps to include
I personally don't believe that the hard of the hardcore aren't going to come because there isn't a CS tournament. And if they are "too hard" to not come because of it, maybe they wouldn't be that fun to play with or against anyway. :?
OH and how about Warcraft 3 or C&C or some RTS just to give some variety.
Now if I were being selfish i would ask for Splinter Cell on the PC but I know i would be dreaming :roll:
ut2k4
bf:vietnam
maybes:
savage
rise of nations
armegetron
give me your thoughts
new computers and old computers.
New comps can play crap like ut2k4... and battlefield vietnam...
some people can only run starcraft and soldat. I think that there should be some catering to those people.
-Mikal-
first off, ut2k4 crap? Just because you cant run it on your 386, dont knock it.
secondly..off? the tourneys are going to be run on 16 machines that we provide. No one will have an advantage just cause they can afford a $600 video card
Battlefield: Vietnam - None of the Battlefield games are good for competition for many reasons, but this is probably the best version in comparison for a tournament due to how infantry skill is somewhat important (unlike BF1942 or Desert Combat).
I've never heard of the game Armegetron and couldn't find any information about it with Google, so I think it's safe to assume that'd make for a very poor tournament. There are quite a few games that should be used before Savage, Rainbow 6, or Rise of Nations, including: Counter-Strike (must have), Warcraft 3 (must have), Call of Duty, Quake 3, or Starcraft.
It worries me that all tournaments will be run on 16 machines, as that pretty much eliminates a decent team tournament. Games like Counter-Strike or Call of Duty shouldn't be ignored due to lack of computers to play it on considering they are much better suited for tournaments than many of the games you've mentioned. There should be more than enough people with those games on their own computer to have the tournaments run via BYOC.
Tournaments should be run via BYOC systems with the finals played on the systems provided. Since all remotely decent tournaments have multiple rounds each competitor would have to constantly reconfigure the system and make sure their mouse, keyboard, and headphones worked as they should. BYOC should be where tournaments are played, with the finals on the provided systems. Would make for smoother running tournaments that would allow for team games, as well as more competitors due to not having to face the bottleneck of 16 systems (that will inevitably become fewer than 16 due to tech problems).
Sourceforge has been getting a lot of games and 3d game projects lately joined on it. Scorched3D is one of them I tried out recently, its a 3d remake of Scorched Earth the classic DOS game that inspired such later games as Worms.
What i need from you guys right now is just to throw out names of games that you think would be fun at the offical tourney. Arguments over rules and stuff we can do later.
The only things that anywhere near certain are:
1) At least a couple different ut2k4 games (tdm, onslaught)
2) No official CS tourney
3) Probably a savage game
Your ignoring the number 1 fps for what reason? And then to top is off your ignoring war3 which I beleive is the most popular rts. Why do you even ask for opinions when you ignore 3/4 of the them.
When did I say there would be no Warcraft? I just want people to let me know what games they would want to play. This is a VERY preliminary survey.
promise?
Seriously, there are other games, its the number one FPS because its freaking everywhere in the world and it plays on some of the oldest hardware. Besides, the fact that there IS a tournament at every other LAN is reason enough not to have one. If you haven't noticed PAX is trying to have things that are not at other LAN/Gaming gatherings and are original or new but are wanted. Last time I went to a large LAN party I couldn't play UT because most everyone was playing CS the whole time and that was back in 2001. This LAN won't break any holy rules for not having an official CS tournament, he never said you couldn't play, he just said they aren't doing an official tournament, probably because there are enough of them already at other LAN parties.
I think he meant that towards the other guy, since McDonald's is worn out, sometimes horrid, and overrated, so it is often times overlooked for a better restarant in the mall food court even though it is everywhere therefore more popular, which I think is what he was trying to say.
I would say Gunbound should be there, but I don't know how you work that out since you have to be online. Maybe Worms World Party or Armageddon. Warcraft 3 I'm all for having as well.
I would have to unleash my ninja rope skills.
NO MATTER WHAT, THERE WILL BE PEOPLE WHO WILL WANT TO PLAY COUNTERSTRIKE.
Just put it in the fucking LAN room already. Either that or give up so someone else can put it in.
And who put you in charge anyways?
Don't you remember his first topic here, or were you banned?
He's 'friends' with Gabe. Or Tycho. I don't remember.
edit:
To be fair, I encourage the use of other games. I'm not saying that CS should be the only game out there, but it's MONUMENTALLY FUCKING RETARDED to exclude it. The majority of the posts should have proved that there's desire for CS. Why not put it in? Don't be a fuckass.
what he said
Jedi Outcast/Academy?
And I think you could find enough people to get a decent Total Annihilation game going, it just might take a while to finish 8)
I would just like to let everyone know that I suck...And that I'm a girl...And I like ribbons in my hair, and I want to kiss all the boys.
That was me apologizing for saying nasty things about CS.
I just dont see why all the CS people were getting up in arms when he just said there wouldnt be an official CS tournie.
this says it all:
www.reallifecomics.com
Who could be more important than me?
And this is excellent news.
oh and UC can you do me a favor and get the person who's in charge of the Smash brothers tourny to update us on what the rules are going to be?
I dont think i caved, the decision came from the top... and it might not be exactly what you all think.
that real life strip couldnt be any more perfect.