This post is full of awful. I personally prefer Q as well, but his W is one of the most damaging abilities in all of LOL if it runs it full duration. 45% of their max HP at 0 AP (before resists). It breaks even with Q at about 650 HP, which every level 9+ character in the game has more HP than that.
You've gotten to the correct result, but your methodology is broken.
No I think your methodology is wrong.
Have you EVER landed your W and people stood in the puddle for 5 straight seconds? I don't think so.
Only time you will EVER get people in W all the way is with your R ultimate.
It is detrimental to your damage output to put ALL your points into W man.
That guy talked about "any competent person/team won't let Q land". Well tell me how the fuck you dodge/juke an instant cast that silences, but yet you don't see people just STROLLING out of your W puddle.
It's easy to walk out of the puddle. The only time it is very useful is when you ult or have a good amount of stuns on the team(amumu).
Other than that the Q is best. You can harass the enemy team with it before an engagement and the range on it hitting is larger than it should be. It's pretty easy to hit people with it as you only have to marginally lead them since you dont even have to be in the animation for it to hit and take effect.
The pool loses a lot of effectiveness when your facing people who posses the ability to think during a team fight and can walk out of it.
I mean it's like morganas puddle only less damage and no means to keep them in the puddle.
I stick by my story. E > Q > R >W
???
There's like a 1 second delay before it triggers after the big animation telegraphs it.
You'll never land that against people who know what they're doing unless it's a big confusing teamfight or a gank.
Also his w wins team fights paired with any kind of taunt or crowd control.
See I don't feel like Gragas scales all that well, especially now that they removed the Locket and nerfed Visage. He's still a strong champion in the lane, but he doesn't bring much damage late game unless you build him full AP, and if you build him AP he can be bursted down pretty easily. Building him tanky makes him hard to kill (thankfully not endlessly so like it was with Locket), but then he doesn't bring much outside of his ultimate, which is now on a longer CD. He doesn't have any hard CC unlike true tanks, and he doesn't have much damage unlike most offtanks.
I think something we see a lot is people associating good in the laning phase strongly with being overpowered. That's part of a champion's value to the team, yes, but just part of it.
AP Gragas is still stupidly good on TT, where the smaller teams mean he's harder to burst down instantly, and once he hits 6 he's pretty much unkillable as long as you have a point in bodyslam and DR. Also, the smaller lanes make it a lot harder to dodge his barrels, letting him easily deny/harass nonstop.
You are right though, I honestly wouldn't use him for 5-man anymore, not until he gets a better late-game.
There's like a 1 second delay before it triggers after the big animation telegraphs it.
You'll never land that against people who know what they're doing unless it's a big confusing teamfight or a gank.
Also his w wins team fights paired with any kind of taunt or crowd control.
Stop being bad at Malz.
LOL.
Oh my god.
You are telling me to stop being bad @ malz, yet you can't land his Q, so you max his W.
That's funny.
edit: the most hilarious part is when you said his W wins teamfights, but not an ability that does just as much, if not MORE damage AND silences everyone. What's more important? A small puddle that people can walk out of and doesn't do much at all, or silencing at least half (if not the whole) of the enemy team and doing more damage?
I mean, fucking really? Did you really just say that? Silencing is WAY more valuable to a team fight than almost anything, especially a dinky circle that only retards stand in.
If you can't land Qs in general, let alone team fights, ever consider maybe you're the bad malz?
One of my greatest problems with Kog'maw is that I am...stupid?
In that I will fire off his ult from a safe range, and accidentally double-click or something and then whoooooops kog'maw is trotting off towards the team fight when i wanted to hang back and snipe and then whooooops ded
This happens to me a lot too! I'll be in a good position, I'll start clicking on people or things, and then all of a sudden I'm waltzing around in the middle of the enemy team. I still don't really know what's going on.
This happens to me a lot too! I'll be in a good position, I'll start clicking on people or things, and then all of a sudden I'm waltzing around in the middle of the enemy team. I still don't really know what's going on.
Hold shift when you duders want to do a skillshot and not move your champ.
It depends. In a sidelane, I usually go for the Q first cause you'd be surprised at how often 2 opposing champions will walk shoulder to shoulder and eat the void wall thing. In a 1v1 lane, it helps me farm and keep the other dude away from getting too close. W is the last thing I put points but I'll usually have 2 levels of it by lv 8 just in case.
Who's lookin' sufficiently crunk to engender my support?
Got a voter block of six million. Start posing.
I've never really been terrified of Malz' w. It's always been that little circle of crap that kills minions. And you, if he ults you on it. Now that bloody silence he drops half a foot in front of your face? That one I'm not fond of. It hurtses.
This happens to me a lot too! I'll be in a good position, I'll start clicking on people or things, and then all of a sudden I'm waltzing around in the middle of the enemy team. I still don't really know what's going on.
Hold shift when you duders want to do a skillshot and not move your champ.
This happens to me a lot too! I'll be in a good position, I'll start clicking on people or things, and then all of a sudden I'm waltzing around in the middle of the enemy team. I still don't really know what's going on.
Hold shift when you duders want to do a skillshot and not move your champ.
It worked wonders for my Karthus.
But shift-[key] is smartcast isn't it?
Yeah, and I need to learn to use it more. Specifically with Kog'Maw, it is most likely my problem
Were you denying a melee/cannon every wave? Seems like you should have stayed pushed up to your tower and just farm there safely as Gangplank. Which also makes jungle ganks easier.
Yep, was denying and shooting stuff like a boss. Barrel lets him farm from 100% safety and he is pretty much immune to ganks. He whittles me down with barrel and then uses R to push me away from tower and kill me.
It's really broken. They gave him way too many tools without any drawbacks. He's melee I guess so that's one drawback. Whatever, it's silly how good Gragas is.
Who was the jungler? Because, GP and (say) Rammus should have no issue ganking Gragas.
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
Were you denying a melee/cannon every wave? Seems like you should have stayed pushed up to your tower and just farm there safely as Gangplank. Which also makes jungle ganks easier.
Yep, was denying and shooting stuff like a boss. Barrel lets him farm from 100% safety and he is pretty much immune to ganks. He whittles me down with barrel and then uses R to push me away from tower and kill me.
It's really broken. They gave him way too many tools without any drawbacks. He's melee I guess so that's one drawback. Whatever, it's silly how good Gragas is.
Who was the jungler? Because, GP and (say) Rammus should have no issue ganking Gragas.
Huh?
If Gragas so much sees any ganker, he can dash back to his tower.
Tried out sivir over trynd for one game and its goddamn night and day. She may not be able to kill other champions faster at level 18 but she gets there fast and gets tons of money which is way better for solo queue
Yeah, if my team isn't so horrible that it's unwinnable, I carry solo queue with Sivir.
Were you denying a melee/cannon every wave? Seems like you should have stayed pushed up to your tower and just farm there safely as Gangplank. Which also makes jungle ganks easier.
Yep, was denying and shooting stuff like a boss. Barrel lets him farm from 100% safety and he is pretty much immune to ganks. He whittles me down with barrel and then uses R to push me away from tower and kill me.
It's really broken. They gave him way too many tools without any drawbacks. He's melee I guess so that's one drawback. Whatever, it's silly how good Gragas is.
Who was the jungler? Because, GP and (say) Rammus should have no issue ganking Gragas.
Huh?
If Gragas so much sees any ganker, he can dash back to his tower.
Ghost + Powerball + Taunt + Global ult after 6. You probably can't bring him down from full health, but it would still be close. If he blinks or bodyslams the powerball, than the Rammus wasn't fast enough.
Edit: The OP mentioned R, so I'm assuming we're talking ganks after 6.
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
Urgh. So I'm captain of solo ranked and I want to play Janna. I ask my team if they want me to picka champ for them.
"I want to be eve" says one. So I pick eve. He then informs me he was joking, but that he'll play eve anyway. Woot. So I set up my Janna masteries and he picks Eve. We try to swap. Turns out the swap system is bugged and I'm stuck with Flash/Clairvoyance Eve with Janna masteries and runes.
Not as bad a predicament as I thought it would be however. I used both my summoner spells to get first blood on the enemy rammus while he was jungling. That and a few other ganks meant the game snowballed from there. We had a Mordekaiser and a Warwick, so we could essentially pick one person on the enemy team and turn them into a ghost. Ended up 7/1/12.
Clairvoyance+Smite anti jungler eve? That could be interesting. I've really enjoyed playing her in inhouses lately and am tempted to see if I can win some games with her in ranked.
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
I've had bad experiences with Eve counterjunglers on my team in solo ranked.
The idea behind a counterjungler is that you (the counterjungler) are setting yourself behind in order to set their jungler more behind. The problem is that it's extremely risky unless they have a champion you know you can just straight-up kill 1v1 (Amunu maybe?). Any good jungler knows to be very careful to properly nuke+Smite combo on lizard/golem anytime there's an MIA counterjungler.
If Eve can't kill you, and she can't steal your buffs, she's going to fall behind you in experience points and gold. It's really as simple as that.
It's even more of a loss to her team because Eve is not one of the better-scaling late game champions. A fed Warwick is so much more useful than a fed Eve, for instance.
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My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
Ghost + Powerball + Taunt + Global ult after 6. You probably can't bring him down from full health, but it would still be close. If he blinks or bodyslams the powerball, than the Rammus wasn't fast enough.
Edit: The OP mentioned R, so I'm assuming we're talking ganks after 6.
If Gragas has his ult up, you're not getting in that first powerball. Or for that matter, if he just sees you start to powerball early enough, he'll dash away unless he's super far up the lane. Ganking Gragas is extremely hard to do without a ranged stun/slow. You want to hope the game goes on long enough that he becomes ignorable.
shutup glirk, you don't even play malz and you're bad anyway.
but really, only baddy malzies max out W and ignore Q.
I mean, even just saying any competent team will dodge his Q just goes to show how bad you are @ malz.
I believe jungle malz is the unsung hero of LOL. I have tore faces off and melted them at the same time doing such shennanigans. People fear the monster that could pop out of the river bush at any second to rain hell down on them, or worse eat their souls.
even if that works, why would you take her out of a lane? She's awesome at laning
addendum: I've played eight games with her, they've all been reaally fun, I've won 5 and lost 3, max killcount is 15, least kills is 3 (that was a 25 minute surrender win )
I've had bad experiences with Eve counterjunglers on my team in solo ranked.
The idea behind a counterjungler is that you (the counterjungler) are setting yourself behind in order to set their jungler more behind. The problem is that it's extremely risky unless they have a champion you know you can just straight-up kill 1v1 (Amunu maybe?). Any good jungler knows to be very careful to properly nuke+Smite combo on lizard/golem anytime there's an MIA counterjungler.
If Eve can't kill you, and she can't steal your buffs, she's going to fall behind you in experience points and gold. It's really as simple as that.
It's even more of a loss to her team because Eve is not one of the better-scaling late game champions. A fed Warwick is so much more useful than a fed Eve, for instance.
The benefits to counterjungling are having three solos (essentially), crippling their jungle, and having constant ganks on all three lanes.
It's very effective if executed well, but at the same time it's also fairly dependent on the other team's composition. Some champs with some routes get very low, others never dip below half health.
I'd say the big thing is to not be too overcommitted to the idea of counterjungling. If you can kill their jungler, good, but be content to steal some of their camps or make them take a slower but safer route.
not sure why people are hating on cass, considering she's super awesome and very entertaining to play as
whew
I mean you don't actually HAVE to land a poison in order to harrass with twin fang, it's on a five second cooldown :P
if you DO land a poison, hit them twice!
If you can land it again, flash, poison, twin fang, twin fang, ignite, first blood
(this has been my guide to level two cassiopeia, hope you enjoyed it)
not sure why people are hating on cass, considering she's super awesome and very entertaining to play as
whew
I mean you don't actually HAVE to land a poison in order to harrass with twin fang, it's on a five second cooldown :P
if you DO land a poison, hit them twice!
If you can land it again, flash, poison, twin fang, twin fang, ignite, first blood
(this has been my guide to level two cassiopeia, hope you enjoyed it)
If Twitch buys a Tiamat, and then hits a group of champions with his Spray and Pray ultimate
Wouldn't that, like, multiply his damage by a billionfold? If a shot's going to hit three champions in a line, for example, and it hits the first, you get splash damage off the first one in the line, right? And then when it continues through and hits the second in the line, wouldn't THAT also cause additional splash damage from the same shot? And so on, for as many as you hit?
Also, does Tiamat do the same damage as your regular attack with the splash?
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
If Twitch buys a Tiamat, and then hits a group of champions with his Spray and Pray ultimate
Wouldn't that, like, multiply his damage by a billionfold? If a shot's going to hit three champions in a line, for example, and it hits the first, you get splash damage off the first one in the line, right? And then when it continues through and hits the second in the line, wouldn't THAT also cause additional splash damage from the same shot? And so on, for as many as you hit?
Also, does Tiamat do the same damage as your regular attack with the splash?
Tiamat Twitch is about the only Tiamat build that shouldn't get you laughed at in a real game and yes it works well.
The splash does less damage than the full hit, depending on if you're melee or ranged. (50% for melee, 33% for ranged)
with ranged people I think tiamat does 33% of the damage as splash, and with melee people I think it's 50%
but I could definitely be remembering this incorrectly
e: oh no I got beaten to the punch
gotta add some content to the post!!!
uh....
Cass..is awesome!
she can most definitely solo the dragon at level 9 with a hextech revolver, probably earlier but I'm usually laning
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CorporateLogoThe toilet knowshow I feelRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
Won't a jungler have grabbed it by the time you reach level 9
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
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Steam Username:Glirk_Dient
AP Gragas is still stupidly good on TT, where the smaller teams mean he's harder to burst down instantly, and once he hits 6 he's pretty much unkillable as long as you have a point in bodyslam and DR. Also, the smaller lanes make it a lot harder to dodge his barrels, letting him easily deny/harass nonstop.
You are right though, I honestly wouldn't use him for 5-man anymore, not until he gets a better late-game.
Oh my god.
You are telling me to stop being bad @ malz, yet you can't land his Q, so you max his W.
That's funny.
edit: the most hilarious part is when you said his W wins teamfights, but not an ability that does just as much, if not MORE damage AND silences everyone. What's more important? A small puddle that people can walk out of and doesn't do much at all, or silencing at least half (if not the whole) of the enemy team and doing more damage?
I mean, fucking really? Did you really just say that? Silencing is WAY more valuable to a team fight than almost anything, especially a dinky circle that only retards stand in.
If you can't land Qs in general, let alone team fights, ever consider maybe you're the bad malz?
but really, only baddy malzies max out W and ignore Q.
I mean, even just saying any competent team will dodge his Q just goes to show how bad you are @ malz.
This happens to me a lot too! I'll be in a good position, I'll start clicking on people or things, and then all of a sudden I'm waltzing around in the middle of the enemy team. I still don't really know what's going on.
It worked wonders for my Karthus.
Debating the usefulness between Q and W though is just redundant.
His Q silences people, does great damage and is not hard to land.
His W is a stationary pool that people have to stand in to do damage, which is less than his Q.
No contest.
Uh. I agree with the sexiest person here.
Who's lookin' sufficiently crunk to engender my support?
Got a voter block of six million. Start posing.
I've never really been terrified of Malz' w. It's always been that little circle of crap that kills minions. And you, if he ults you on it. Now that bloody silence he drops half a foot in front of your face? That one I'm not fond of. It hurtses.
But shift-[key] is smartcast isn't it?
Still think Q depends on your opponents kind of sucking if you're just laning.
While W either zones people to line up your Q or straight murders them if you have any kind of CC support.
But at least we can mostly agree that maxing AIDs is the way to go.
Yeah, and I need to learn to use it more. Specifically with Kog'Maw, it is most likely my problem
The other problem is really stupid pathing
Who was the jungler? Because, GP and (say) Rammus should have no issue ganking Gragas.
Huh?
If Gragas so much sees any ganker, he can dash back to his tower.
Yeah, if my team isn't so horrible that it's unwinnable, I carry solo queue with Sivir.
Ghost + Powerball + Taunt + Global ult after 6. You probably can't bring him down from full health, but it would still be close. If he blinks or bodyslams the powerball, than the Rammus wasn't fast enough.
Edit: The OP mentioned R, so I'm assuming we're talking ganks after 6.
"I want to be eve" says one. So I pick eve. He then informs me he was joking, but that he'll play eve anyway. Woot. So I set up my Janna masteries and he picks Eve. We try to swap. Turns out the swap system is bugged and I'm stuck with Flash/Clairvoyance Eve with Janna masteries and runes.
Not as bad a predicament as I thought it would be however. I used both my summoner spells to get first blood on the enemy rammus while he was jungling. That and a few other ganks meant the game snowballed from there. We had a Mordekaiser and a Warwick, so we could essentially pick one person on the enemy team and turn them into a ghost. Ended up 7/1/12.
Clairvoyance is really nice on Eve.
Philosopoppy thread
Soal!!! We Need you!!!!!!
The idea behind a counterjungler is that you (the counterjungler) are setting yourself behind in order to set their jungler more behind. The problem is that it's extremely risky unless they have a champion you know you can just straight-up kill 1v1 (Amunu maybe?). Any good jungler knows to be very careful to properly nuke+Smite combo on lizard/golem anytime there's an MIA counterjungler.
If Eve can't kill you, and she can't steal your buffs, she's going to fall behind you in experience points and gold. It's really as simple as that.
It's even more of a loss to her team because Eve is not one of the better-scaling late game champions. A fed Warwick is so much more useful than a fed Eve, for instance.
If Gragas has his ult up, you're not getting in that first powerball. Or for that matter, if he just sees you start to powerball early enough, he'll dash away unless he's super far up the lane. Ganking Gragas is extremely hard to do without a ranged stun/slow. You want to hope the game goes on long enough that he becomes ignorable.
I believe jungle malz is the unsung hero of LOL. I have tore faces off and melted them at the same time doing such shennanigans. People fear the monster that could pop out of the river bush at any second to rain hell down on them, or worse eat their souls.
Steam Username:Glirk_Dient
even if that works, why would you take her out of a lane? She's awesome at laning
addendum: I've played eight games with her, they've all been reaally fun, I've won 5 and lost 3, max killcount is 15, least kills is 3 (that was a 25 minute surrender win
It's very effective if executed well, but at the same time it's also fairly dependent on the other team's composition. Some champs with some routes get very low, others never dip below half health.
I'd say the big thing is to not be too overcommitted to the idea of counterjungling. If you can kill their jungler, good, but be content to steal some of their camps or make them take a slower but safer route.
whew
I mean you don't actually HAVE to land a poison in order to harrass with twin fang, it's on a five second cooldown :P
if you DO land a poison, hit them twice!
If you can land it again, flash, poison, twin fang, twin fang, ignite, first blood
(this has been my guide to level two cassiopeia, hope you enjoyed it)
:^: :^:
If Twitch buys a Tiamat, and then hits a group of champions with his Spray and Pray ultimate
Wouldn't that, like, multiply his damage by a billionfold? If a shot's going to hit three champions in a line, for example, and it hits the first, you get splash damage off the first one in the line, right? And then when it continues through and hits the second in the line, wouldn't THAT also cause additional splash damage from the same shot? And so on, for as many as you hit?
Also, does Tiamat do the same damage as your regular attack with the splash?
The splash does less damage than the full hit, depending on if you're melee or ranged. (50% for melee, 33% for ranged)
but I could definitely be remembering this incorrectly
e: oh no I got beaten to the punch
gotta add some content to the post!!!
uh....
Cass..is awesome!
she can most definitely solo the dragon at level 9 with a hextech revolver, probably earlier but I'm usually laning
Cons: Well you just got shat on again didn't you veigar
Pros: 1k+ nukes on enemy casters when you aren't doing that well