Don't like the snow? You can make a bookmark with the following text instead of a url: javascript:snowStorm.toggleSnow(). Clicking it will toggle the snow on and off.
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

[Hiberno-Britannic Politics] Single biggest reason behind Spitting Image's success dies.

RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
edited April 2013 in Debate and/or Discourse
So this archipelago

522px-Britain_and_Ireland_satellite_image_bright.png

Has these nations.

200px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png 200px-Flag_of_Ireland.svg.png

These nations are almost completely not unique in that they're run by a system known as Politics!

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

Run by these chaps

David-Cameron-Nick-Clegg-006.jpg

This guy would rather they didn't

Ed_Miliband_on_August_27%2C_2010_cropped-an_less_red-2.jpg

Some of the Issues
- Austerity and Deficit Reduction
- Student Fees
- Broadband Infrastructure
- Our role in Europe
- Our role in Iraq/Afghanistan
- Reforming the voting structure from First Past the Post to Alternative Vote
- A balding man and the daughter of a working class couple done good getting married

A spiffing place to keep up to date with the latest developments.

[strike]Irish Silesia[/strike] An Poblacht na hÉireann

Run by this chap.

490px-EndaKenny.jpg

These guys would rather he didn't.

Miche%C3%A1l_Martin.jpg
225px-Gerry_Adams_Sinn_F%C3%A9in.jpg

Some of The Issues
- A mountain of debt taken on by ill advisedly backing toxic bank debt
- Loss of confidence in the market
- Humiliating bailout by the EU
- Perceived resultant loss of Sovereignty
- And more austerity and deficit reduction
- Or maybe we should just default? [/Meaningful Look at Brussels]

A shockin' good place to see what the feck the craic is.

So, discuss the goings on in the Dail and the Commons!

RMS Oceanic on
«134567100

Posts

  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Nice OP

    So the issues of the day are Wikileaks (Salmond is in the firing line it seems), Student Fees and Snow + Grit. I'm hoping the latter plays its normal prominent place in the media

    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck NONSTOP INFINITE CLIMAX POSTING you must go on i cant go on ill go onRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Where is the flag of st David, I spent whole minutes making that.

    obF2Wuw.png
  • Space CoyoteSpace Coyote Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    The student fee vote is tomorrow, could throw up some very interesting results.

  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    The student fee vote is tomorrow, could throw up some very interesting results.

    It depends on how big a rebellion, if any, the Lib Dems experience.

    I'm not optimistic everyone in the party will unite against Clable to sink the bill, but I reckon a big enough rebellion could seriously undermine Clegg's position in the future, and would be a hairline crack below the waterline of the RMS Clameron.

    Is it just me, or does it feel like Nick Clegg pretty much gave up everything to get the AV Referendum? I know he was thinking about abandoning the fees pledge before the election, but he should have done that before the election.

    MadCaddy
  • Space CoyoteSpace Coyote Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Is it just me, or does it feel like Nick Clegg pretty much gave up everything to get the AV Referendum? I know he was thinking about abandoning the fees pledge before the election, but he should have done that before the election.

    I didn't think that Nick Clegg or the rest of the Lib Dems were that keen on AV, to be honest. I think the Lib Dems took a strategy of trying to ameliorate all Tory policy, rather than for sticking for a few policy wins here and there. I can think of a few things they have gotten, like the increase in personal allowance and the pupil premium. Apparently there are more policies in the pipeline, which I'll just have to wait and see about. I think they've certainly done a bad job about talking about what they have achieved and what they intend to achieve as coalition partners.

  • Red or AliveRed or Alive Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    If anyone cares, Scotland is properly fucked. The last fortnight of snow, more snow, ice and snow has brought the country to a halt and is making it rather difficult to get your bread 'n' milk 'n' eggs if you live outside of a major town or city.

    Just so you southern pansies know.

    Carpe Diem. By the CROTCH.
  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive Damn these electric sex pants! Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I've found a better representation of the geography of Britain (linked for huge):
    Snow joke.

    I'm lucky enough to be in the middle band with no snow shatsoever.

    Another successful post, thanks to the power of Spacestar Ordering™!
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I've found a better representation of the geography of Britain (linked for huge):
    Snow joke.

    I'm lucky enough to be in the middle band with no snow shatsoever.

    I liked the one from earlier this year better. You could see more, for starters.

  • Bad-BeatBad-Beat Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Yeah, there was no cloud over the country and EVERYTHING was white. A BNP dream...

  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    If anyone cares, Scotland is properly fucked. The last fortnight of snow, more snow, ice and snow has brought the country to a halt and is making it rather difficult to get your bread 'n' milk 'n' eggs if you live outside of a major town or city.

    Just so you southern pansies know.

    Us Southerners live in a bubble, a happy bubble where I can buy out of season fruit all year around.


    Seriously though, it does sound pretty awful up north. I've clients that have not been able to work for two weeks now, which is pretty hard to believe

    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • corcorigancorcorigan Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    To be fair, last year I was in danger of running out of food and dying in isolation in Zone 2 in London.

    I'd have to have walked a good mile or so to get to a functional rail line. Horrific.

    Ad Astra Per Aspera
  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    corcorigan wrote: »
    To be fair, last year I was in danger of running out of food and dying in isolation in Zone 2 in London.

    I'd have to have walked a good mile or so to get to a functional rail line. Horrific.

    Zone 2 felt like Siberia. Whereas I was merely a few hundred metres away in Zone 1 and there was very little snow at all, as it was all cleared away

    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • RohanRohan Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    As Father Liam Deliverance once said - "Gangsters, Ted! They're all a bunch of gangsters!"

    Wise words, Father.

    ...and I thought of how all those people died, and what a good death that is. That nobody can blame you for it, because everyone else died along with you, and it is the fault of none, save those who did the killing.

    Nothing's forgotten, nothing is ever forgotten
  • BobCescaBobCesca Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Kalkino wrote: »
    If anyone cares, Scotland is properly fucked. The last fortnight of snow, more snow, ice and snow has brought the country to a halt and is making it rather difficult to get your bread 'n' milk 'n' eggs if you live outside of a major town or city.

    Just so you southern pansies know.

    Us Southerners live in a bubble, a happy bubble where I can buy out of season fruit all year around.


    Seriously though, it does sound pretty awful up north. I've clients that have not been able to work for two weeks now, which is pretty hard to believe

    Most of my mates back home have been off work for the last week or so and refuse to even contemplate driving or anything like that.

  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Wow, so Newsnight has just said that 4-10 Conservative MPs will vote against or abstain on the student fees question. Simon Hughes has also committed to abstain, and maybe even voting against it.

    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • Space CoyoteSpace Coyote Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    The NUS is saying that the vote tomorrow is solely to increase the cap on fees and the vote to make the system more 'progressive' comes next year.
    The vote on Thursday is a vote on the cap. It's not a vote on making fees progressive, or your scholarship fund, or reforms to deliver better value for students. Tripling fees before Christmas with a vague promise to make them more progressive after Christmas, on the thin excuse of prospectus deadlines, is nothing short of a disgrace.
    I didn't realize that.

  • Bad-BeatBad-Beat Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Would be funny if the tories voted in down in the end. Just to stick it to the Lib Dems.

  • Uncle_BalsamicUncle_Balsamic Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    What do you reckon will happen to this bill in the Lords?

    PQdy61j.jpg
  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Bad-Beat wrote: »
    Would be funny if the tories voted in down in the end. Just to stick it to the Lib Dems.

    ITT we learn that the Tory party has been infiltrated by the NUS

    Also, in case anyone was wondering if people actually read the Times online anymore, now that there is a paywall, I did see someone on the Tube read it yesterday, on their iPad. It was all sorts of wrong! Don't they know that the law is one must read the Metro then dump it on the floor!

    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    My super giant brain has worked out we need a rebellion of around 35-40 dude(tte)s to sink the bill. At least a dozen Lib Dems are abstaining/voting against it, and I heard some Torys weren't pleased either.

    How narrow a margin can this get passed and not look like the Government had to fight tooth and nail for it?

  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2010
    Kalkino wrote: »
    Bad-Beat wrote: »
    Would be funny if the tories voted in down in the end. Just to stick it to the Lib Dems.

    ITT we learn that the Tory party has been infiltrated by the NUS

    Also, in case anyone was wondering if people actually read the Times online anymore, now that there is a paywall, I did see someone on the Tube read it yesterday, on their iPad. It was all sorts of wrong! Don't they know that the law is one must read the Metro then dump it on the floor!

    Not even Clarkson and Caitlin Moran together could make me pay for the Times.

    Re: student fees though, you lot need to harden up. You're still not even being asked to pay as much as I started paying a decade ago, and its a tiny fraction of what our poor usian counterparts are stuck with.

    tmsig.jpg
  • Space CoyoteSpace Coyote Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    The Cat wrote: »
    Re: student fees though, you lot need to harden up. You're still not even being asked to pay as much as I started paying a decade ago, and its a tiny fraction of what our poor usian counterparts are stuck with.

    It's a common misconception propagated in the UK press that that students want to shift the burden onto the taxpayer. The NUS, the biggest backer of the protests, wants a graduate tax put in place instead. Students could end up paying more into the Universities in total, but in a way that was proportional to individual incomes.

  • DanWeinoDanWeino Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I thought students didn't like the graduate tax? Wasn't that the very first idea mentioned and everyone hated it?

    I for one liked it. The major downside was that people with no hope of actually getting a decent job would just go to uni to waste time or whatever, theng et whatever shit job they were always gonna get, and then pay back nothing. If my degree meant I got a £100k a year job I wouldn't mind giving a couple of percent a year extra back. I'd still be quids in.


    steam_sig.png
  • LeitnerLeitner Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    The Cat wrote: »
    Re: student fees though, you lot need to harden up. You're still not even being asked to pay as much as I started paying a decade ago, and its a tiny fraction of what our poor usian counterparts are stuck with.

    Setting aside Coyote's point. Look how that's worked out for you guys. A degree is just as much a requirment to make it in the working world as it is here, except you push out the poor.

    Now systematic changes so that you don't need three years of learning literature before they let you organise papers I could certainly see the argument for, but this isn't going to do that.

  • WMain00WMain00 Registered User
    edited December 2010
    DanWeino wrote: »
    I thought students didn't like the graduate tax? Wasn't that the very first idea mentioned and everyone hated it?

    I for one liked it. The major downside was that people with no hope of actually getting a decent job would just go to uni to waste time or whatever, theng et whatever shit job they were always gonna get, and then pay back nothing. If my degree meant I got a £100k a year job I wouldn't mind giving a couple of percent a year extra back. I'd still be quids in.

    'Cept in current reality whether you were wasting time or not it's highly unlikely you'll find a decent paid job anyway since degrees are oversaturated, employability is decreasing and the amount of jobs available is limited.

    If you want to get that high paid job you have to jump through alot of hoops, but even the current big jobs like IBM or whatever are only offering £15,000 salaries (sort of seen as the standard going for graduates), still on the assumption that you're able to pass through their ludicrous requirements.

    It's pretty tough out there for everyone really. A person who didn't go to University but worked their way through the employment ranks might indeed find themselves in a better position.

  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    WMain00 wrote: »
    DanWeino wrote: »
    I thought students didn't like the graduate tax? Wasn't that the very first idea mentioned and everyone hated it?

    I for one liked it. The major downside was that people with no hope of actually getting a decent job would just go to uni to waste time or whatever, theng et whatever shit job they were always gonna get, and then pay back nothing. If my degree meant I got a £100k a year job I wouldn't mind giving a couple of percent a year extra back. I'd still be quids in.

    'Cept in current reality whether you were wasting time or not it's highly unlikely you'll find a decent paid job anyway since degrees are oversaturated, employability is decreasing and the amount of jobs available is limited.

    If you want to get that high paid job you have to jump through alot of hoops, but even the current big jobs like IBM or whatever are only offering £15,000 salaries (sort of seen as the standard going for graduates), still on the assumption that you're able to pass through their ludicrous requirements.

    It's pretty tough out there for everyone really. A person who didn't go to University but worked their way through the employment ranks might indeed find themselves in a better position.

    But how feasible is it to go from school into a job that goes places? It seems every position of employment requires some sort of degree. Oh, they may let you aboard if you have experience instead, but this is something a fresh school-leaver will be a little light on.

  • Space CoyoteSpace Coyote Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    DanWeino wrote: »
    I thought students didn't like the graduate tax? Wasn't that the very first idea mentioned and everyone hated it?

    I for one liked it. The major downside was that people with no hope of actually getting a decent job would just go to uni to waste time or whatever, then get whatever shit job they were always gonna get, and then pay back nothing. If my degree meant I got a £100k a year job I wouldn't mind giving a couple of percent a year extra back. I'd still be quids in.

    A graduate tax wasn't incredibly unpopular when it was announced.

    Some Universities didn't like that it would sever the link between individual students and funding the Universities.

    Some Universities didn't like the idea that the money would go into government funds, which is why putting graduate taxes straight into an independent trust was suggested (and in part due to the complaint above).

    Higher earners were worried that they would end up having to pay more than lower earners and there was also a fear that it would send higher earners overseas to avoid the tax.

    People who whinge about taxes whinged about taxes, as is their custom.

    I wouldn't be averse to collecting a graduate tax from everyone who has got a degree ever; with possible partial exemptions for people who have paid off or have outstanding student loans to smooth the playing field. Or a hybrid system with some fees to deter people who have no real interest in going to University and a graduate tax afterward, to make up the difference from earners.

    I imagine this is why I would never be able to win political office.

  • WMain00WMain00 Registered User
    edited December 2010
    WMain00 wrote: »
    DanWeino wrote: »
    I thought students didn't like the graduate tax? Wasn't that the very first idea mentioned and everyone hated it?

    I for one liked it. The major downside was that people with no hope of actually getting a decent job would just go to uni to waste time or whatever, theng et whatever shit job they were always gonna get, and then pay back nothing. If my degree meant I got a £100k a year job I wouldn't mind giving a couple of percent a year extra back. I'd still be quids in.

    'Cept in current reality whether you were wasting time or not it's highly unlikely you'll find a decent paid job anyway since degrees are oversaturated, employability is decreasing and the amount of jobs available is limited.

    If you want to get that high paid job you have to jump through alot of hoops, but even the current big jobs like IBM or whatever are only offering £15,000 salaries (sort of seen as the standard going for graduates), still on the assumption that you're able to pass through their ludicrous requirements.

    It's pretty tough out there for everyone really. A person who didn't go to University but worked their way through the employment ranks might indeed find themselves in a better position.

    But how feasible is it to go from school into a job that goes places? It seems every position of employment requires some sort of degree. Oh, they may let you aboard if you have experience instead, but this is something a fresh school-leaver will be a little light on.

    I know one person who managed to do it. Left school early and managed to work himself up to IT system administrator in the workplace, mainly by learning alot of the stuff himself. No uni experience, but 5 years of work experience. Last heard he was talking about going into uni now to do something, age 24 or something.

    He has an extremely big advantage. He knows the stuff, he's worked 5 years, and god willing he'll come out of it with a good degree.

  • Space CoyoteSpace Coyote Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    WMain00 wrote: »
    I know one person who managed to do it. Left school early and managed to work himself up to IT system administrator in the workplace, mainly by learning alot of the stuff himself. No uni experience, but 5 years of work experience. Last heard he was talking about going into uni now to do something, age 24 or something.

    He has an extremely big advantage. He knows the stuff, he's worked 5 years, and god willing he'll come out of it with a good degree.

    Why go to University at all then if he has the experience?

  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    WMain00 wrote: »
    WMain00 wrote: »
    DanWeino wrote: »
    I thought students didn't like the graduate tax? Wasn't that the very first idea mentioned and everyone hated it?

    I for one liked it. The major downside was that people with no hope of actually getting a decent job would just go to uni to waste time or whatever, theng et whatever shit job they were always gonna get, and then pay back nothing. If my degree meant I got a £100k a year job I wouldn't mind giving a couple of percent a year extra back. I'd still be quids in.

    'Cept in current reality whether you were wasting time or not it's highly unlikely you'll find a decent paid job anyway since degrees are oversaturated, employability is decreasing and the amount of jobs available is limited.

    If you want to get that high paid job you have to jump through alot of hoops, but even the current big jobs like IBM or whatever are only offering £15,000 salaries (sort of seen as the standard going for graduates), still on the assumption that you're able to pass through their ludicrous requirements.

    It's pretty tough out there for everyone really. A person who didn't go to University but worked their way through the employment ranks might indeed find themselves in a better position.

    But how feasible is it to go from school into a job that goes places? It seems every position of employment requires some sort of degree. Oh, they may let you aboard if you have experience instead, but this is something a fresh school-leaver will be a little light on.

    I know one person who managed to do it. Left school early and managed to work himself up to IT system administrator in the workplace, mainly by learning alot of the stuff himself. No uni experience, but 5 years of work experience. Last heard he was talking about going into uni now to do something, age 24 or something.

    He has an extremely big advantage. He knows the stuff, he's worked 5 years, and god willing he'll come out of it with a good degree.

    Ah. See, for this to be a bigger thing, we need more positions in companies designed for school leavers that aren't just cleaners or canteen workers or something.

    It's my understanding one of the early causes of the explosion of degrees was the companies started requesting them for jobs that previously didn't need them. This was done to arbitrarily screen out a lot of applicants, as well as pass the responsibility of training them.

  • BiopticBioptic Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Leitner wrote: »
    The Cat wrote: »
    Re: student fees though, you lot need to harden up. You're still not even being asked to pay as much as I started paying a decade ago, and its a tiny fraction of what our poor usian counterparts are stuck with.

    Setting aside Coyote's point. Look how that's worked out for you guys. A degree is just as much a requirment to make it in the working world as it is here, except you push out the poor.

    Now systematic changes so that you don't need three years of learning literature before they let you organise papers I could certainly see the argument for, but this isn't going to do that.

    Exactly - this all has roots in the vaguely thought-out policy of 10 years ago that used the logic:

    "Graduates earn more than non-graduates. Increasing the number of graduates in the workforce to 50% can only result in increased earnings for everyone, and not simply increased competition for the same number of jobs with the same wages. Except that those 50% will be hugely in debt and have lost 3 years of earnings."

    Furthermore, I got the classic "BSc from a very well-regarded University" and really have to make the point that I barely got £1000 worth of education, let alone £9000. A piddling number of lecture hours each week in theatres with over 200 students, no direct interaction with the professors, and 2 sets of exams a year. The massive increase isn't to bring fees in line with the cost of education, it's to plug the funding gap created by the government - the money the university needs for its non-educational aspects, which are gigantic money-sinks. Asking students to directly subsidise something they're not getting any use out of is hugely unfair.

  • WMain00WMain00 Registered User
    edited December 2010
    WMain00 wrote: »
    I know one person who managed to do it. Left school early and managed to work himself up to IT system administrator in the workplace, mainly by learning alot of the stuff himself. No uni experience, but 5 years of work experience. Last heard he was talking about going into uni now to do something, age 24 or something.

    He has an extremely big advantage. He knows the stuff, he's worked 5 years, and god willing he'll come out of it with a good degree.

    Why go to University at all then if he has the experience?

    I think it was a mix of wanting to try something new and opening up prospects for himself, particularly towards moving abroad.

    Truth be told I sort of admire him. He's managed to work the system extremely well.

  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Bioptic wrote: »
    Leitner wrote: »
    The Cat wrote: »
    Re: student fees though, you lot need to harden up. You're still not even being asked to pay as much as I started paying a decade ago, and its a tiny fraction of what our poor usian counterparts are stuck with.

    Setting aside Coyote's point. Look how that's worked out for you guys. A degree is just as much a requirment to make it in the working world as it is here, except you push out the poor.

    Now systematic changes so that you don't need three years of learning literature before they let you organise papers I could certainly see the argument for, but this isn't going to do that.

    Exactly - this all has roots in the vaguely thought-out policy of 10 years ago that used the logic:

    "Graduates earn more than non-graduates. Increasing the number of graduates in the workforce to 50% can only result in increased earnings for everyone, and not simply increased competition for the same number of jobs with the same wages. Except that those 50% will be hugely in debt and have lost 3 years of earnings."

    Furthermore, I got the classic "BSc from a very well-regarded University" and really have to make the point that I barely got £1000 worth of education, let alone £9000. A piddling number of lecture hours each week in theatres with over 200 students, no direct interaction with the professors, and 2 sets of exams a year. The massive increase isn't to bring fees in line with the cost of education, it's to plug the funding gap created by the government - the money the university needs for its non-educational aspects, which are gigantic money-sinks. Asking students to directly subsidise something they're not getting any use out of is hugely unfair.

    This is entirely hearsay, but my Polish Workmate, whose Fiancee had to jump through hoops for financing, being Vistulan and all, had done some background research on it. According to him, Universities already have to give a sizeable portion of the fees they collect back to the Government. He believe's it's just a stealth tax.

    I was super fortunate to be part of the last year who only had to pay £1200 a year. My parents gave me an intrest free loan to cover it, and I give them £100 a month. I don't know what they're gonna do about my fifteen year old sister. :(

  • Space CoyoteSpace Coyote Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I can see the advantages to the government of an increased graduate population in fields where the government particularly wants to see growth, like high tech manufacturing and pharmaceutical research (as well as doctors to treat the elderly). I think what they didn't anticipate was the effect that increasing the graduate population across the board would do, and the knock-on effects it would have in employment in fields where degrees weren't required in such numbers before.

  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    As ever http://twitter.com/PennyRed/ the only student protest tracking twitter feed worth reading (New Statesman journo)

    I have a thoughtful and infrequently updated blog about games http://whatithinkaboutwhenithinkaboutgames.wordpress.com/

    I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.

    Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
  • WMain00WMain00 Registered User
    edited December 2010
    Wish i was there...sort of.

  • KarlKarl Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Bioptic wrote: »
    Leitner wrote: »
    The Cat wrote: »
    Re: student fees though, you lot need to harden up. You're still not even being asked to pay as much as I started paying a decade ago, and its a tiny fraction of what our poor usian counterparts are stuck with.

    Setting aside Coyote's point. Look how that's worked out for you guys. A degree is just as much a requirment to make it in the working world as it is here, except you push out the poor.

    Now systematic changes so that you don't need three years of learning literature before they let you organise papers I could certainly see the argument for, but this isn't going to do that.

    Exactly - this all has roots in the vaguely thought-out policy of 10 years ago that used the logic:

    "Graduates earn more than non-graduates. Increasing the number of graduates in the workforce to 50% can only result in increased earnings for everyone, and not simply increased competition for the same number of jobs with the same wages. Except that those 50% will be hugely in debt and have lost 3 years of earnings."

    Furthermore, I got the classic "BSc from a very well-regarded University" and really have to make the point that I barely got £1000 worth of education, let alone £9000. A piddling number of lecture hours each week in theatres with over 200 students, no direct interaction with the professors, and 2 sets of exams a year. The massive increase isn't to bring fees in line with the cost of education, it's to plug the funding gap created by the government - the money the university needs for its non-educational aspects, which are gigantic money-sinks. Asking students to directly subsidise something they're not getting any use out of is hugely unfair.

    This is entirely hearsay, but my Polish Workmate, whose Fiancee had to jump through hoops for financing, being Vistulan and all, had done some background research on it. According to him, Universities already have to give a sizeable portion of the fees they collect back to the Government. He believe's it's just a stealth tax.

    I was super fortunate to be part of the last year who only had to pay £1200 a year. My parents gave me an intrest free loan to cover it, and I give them £100 a month. I don't know what they're gonna do about my fifteen year old sister. :(

    I really do feel sorry for people wanting to go to university now.

    I was incredibly lucky, my tution fees were fully paid by my LEA (Local Education Authority) and i was given the full loan PLUS a grant. Plus side, the parents didn't have to pay for me to go to uni. Downside, i was £14,000 in debt by the time i was able to start paying it back due to graduating in 2008 and not finding proper employment for a year.

    What's the deal with paying tution fees exactly. How much (if any) do you have to pay upfront know. Hell i was lucky enough to be the in the final year of people going to uni before top up fee's came in.

    Spoiler:
  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2010
    Leitner wrote: »
    The Cat wrote: »
    Re: student fees though, you lot need to harden up. You're still not even being asked to pay as much as I started paying a decade ago, and its a tiny fraction of what our poor usian counterparts are stuck with.

    Setting aside Coyote's point. Look how that's worked out for you guys. A degree is just as much a requirment to make it in the working world as it is here, except you push out the poor.

    Now systematic changes so that you don't need three years of learning literature before they let you organise papers I could certainly see the argument for, but this isn't going to do that.

    Well, no. Our tuition loans system isn't a deterrent to study. The difficulty of supporting yourself while studying is, and that's largely because our student benefit is inadequate and difficult to qualify for. Different kind of problem.

    tmsig.jpg
  • WMain00WMain00 Registered User
    edited December 2010
    A police officer has sustained a serious neck injury after being knocked unconscious, the BBC's Andy Tighe reports. He has been taken to hospital.

    And there's been another similar incident after a police officer was knocked off their horse. D:

    The police were fucking idiots to think bringing in mounted patrols would work, but some of the students really do need contained. This is turning into a Russian Cossack battle. D:
    # Horses just charged on protesters who are jammed and can't go anywhere. Kids now throwing paint at horses. 35 minutes ago via Mobile Web

    # I have been informed that I am bleeding. My coat is covered in blue paint! 39 minutes ago via Mobile Web

    # The crush is awful. I just got trampled, in lots of pain. Cops still beating ppl, kids going mental.

    Unbelievable.

    EDIT: Might as well say this is here and now. If Parliament votes for the proposals, I wouldn't be surprised if chaos ran on the streets. Angry people will get even angrier.

  • SharpyVIISharpyVII Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    There we go ... it's passed!

«134567100
Sign In or Register to comment.