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Mass Effect 3: The batarian who stole Christmas

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Posts

  • PancakePancake Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Robman wrote: »
    Pancake wrote: »
    Torso Boy wrote: »
    Robman wrote: »
    It's a damn shame you couldn't just
    cap Zaeed right in the fucking head during your loyalty mission with him. I get that Paragon Shepard is a highly principled and ethical soldier, but there should still be a "shoot the mad dog" moment for the Paragon players too.

    I think this needs to be an option for most squadmates. ME1 had such a moment, why not allow the player to take out anyone who he or she feels might compromise the mission? Maybe some characters actually could compromise the mission.

    There were already people that couldn't handle the extreme complexity of making squad members loyal and got the worst possible ending without trying to.

    Imagine if it was even harder than that.

    This may be a complex idea, but imagine if the game was so deep that you could make real choices, and these choices mattered. Imagine that even if Shepard was the hope of the galaxy, people could still have core beliefs and ethics that a quick conversation didn't change.

    Imagine,
    If after you ruined Zaeed's best chance at revenge in 20 years, he shot you in the back as soon as you were done beating him into submission.

    Imagine if Jack just snapped and tore the ship to pieces if you didn't let her kill the dude you found in the labs.

    Imagine if people didn't neatly resolve deep personal trauma in a 30 minute mission.

    Imagine if it was impossible to make everyone happy with a quick conversation option, and you had to pick and choose which specialists you wanted at your back, and which specialists you were going to bury along the way. It would be almost like dealing with a wide variety of people with conflicting desires and morals, and a developer having the quads to fully realize that to the point where they presented you with a no-win scenario.

    Like when
    Jack pulls a gun on Miranda. You can talk that down? You just trust that she won't go psycho at some other critical moment? Really? You don't just pop a round in her head then and there? She pulled a gun on the second in command on the mission.

    Shepard has MAGIC POWERS, forget the Reaper's indoctrination, Shepard's genitals clearly radiate some sort of magic mind control lust-power.

    If you want stuff like that, BioWare is never going to be your go-to developer. They haven't done anything like that since the BG2 days and won't do anything like that anymore.

    They already alienated part of their audience just by having the suicide mission be one by some amazingly incompetent longshot that most people have to try to get.

    Pancake on
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  • CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Ascension. Ascension. Hallelujah. Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Wouldn't be a horrible twist it gets revealed that TIM put Reaper tech in Shep to allow her to indoctrinate the various people she encountered?

    CaptainNemo on
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  • PancakePancake Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    It would explain a lot.

    Pancake on
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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Oh! Another point!

    The Normandy SR2 has a crew that can operate the ship. Presumably. Not including your squad members. It functions well enough before you recruit them.

    So why, when I am in the final mission
    Does Shepard say "I'll take a team and deal with the intruder", to go and kill that floating eye thing that breaches the cargo hold??? Take your entire team hit it with five warps, three incinerates and five shotgun blasts to the face at once, killing it instantly!

    Dhalphir on
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  • CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Ascension. Ascension. Hallelujah. Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Pancake wrote: »
    It would explain a lot.

    Yeah, but I really want to avoid a Neo style upload ending for ME3.

    CaptainNemo on
    PSN:CaptainNemo1138
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Yeah I don't know how anyone didn't manage to keep their whole squad alive the very first time they do the suicide mission.

    Every role you put people into is incredibly self explanatory and the only way to fail as long as you select the right people is if they aren't loyal, which is even dumber to not know you should do that first.

    That said, the one thing I can understand people not doing is being able to save the crew, like Kelly and Dr Chakwas. Its not immediately apparent, on your first playthrough, that getting the Reaper IFF
    triggers a timer countdown where you only have time to do one more storyline mission before the crew starts dying

    Dhalphir on
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  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I think its because a lot of people didnt expect there would be consequences, because pretty much every game has a scary big bad ending that the narrative foreshadows with dread, but ME2 actually had some semblance of impact with theirs, which is unusual.

    Prohass on
  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Shepard only actually needs a few allies. The rest are just for support. Incidentally, the human squadmates alone cover all necessary roles in the suicide mission.

    -Tal on
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  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Honestly, I don't think we'll really ever have real consequences in games until we have the technology to do with well and gamers in general get over their deep-seated game god complex.

    Until then, I'll just enjoy the ride.

    Dragkonias on
  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    wait how come Thane can't open the door

    he walked through a tube that one time

    all assassins have super hacking skills, right

    -Tal on
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  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Naw, Thane isn't the hacking type of assassin. He's the vent type of assassin.

    Dragkonias on
  • A steak!A steak! Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited December 2010
    Leitner wrote: »
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    If you are a Vanguard... you are doing it wrong
    8-)

    OH NO YOU DON'T.

    A steak! on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Man if you just read the descriptions of the characters IN THE SELECTION MENU when its time to choose who does what in the suicide mission, it even flat out tells you who has tech skills (ie, Legion and Tali and no one else)

    Dhalphir on
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  • curly haired boycurly haired boy Your Friendly Neighborhood Torgue Dealer Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    gamers in general get over their deep-seated game god complex.

    well really, we don't play mass effect to be a wimpy un-charismatic normal guy

    so i dunno what you want shepard to be then

    curly haired boy on
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    Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
  • battledrillbattledrill Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Miranda, what a female dog. I am replaying my save before the collectors mission and after I chose Jack she will give me no play. Fair enough, but I thought it was all business yadda yadda yadda. Oh yeah she falls for Shepard but would of dumped him as soon as TIM ordered it. Ashley is also a female dog and a racist one at that. More and more I feel the safe bets are either Jack because shes all 2pac "Ride or Die" or even Kelly. Kelly knows you just want to have a good time and is perfectly fine with it. Is there a way that I can make sure Miranda dies in the following final mission? The way I figure I'm likely to hit up her sis in the sequel anyway :winky: bow chicka bow bow

    I just pwned her "Pout if you like, or call the Illusive Man and complain to him". Bwahahaha.

    battledrill on

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  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I loved Miranda's character, mainly because at first I really disliked her, but she grew on me, so I ended up digging her as like a favourite character.

    Also funny story my friend wanted to romance Miranda, but walked away from the screen after Jack's loyalty mission, he comes back after the fight, with no idea what happened, with two options and Sheps face frozen in expectation. He chose poorly and somehow ended up screwing the pooch with both, he was a virgin shep.

    Prohass on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    either of the grey choices loses you the loyalty of one of the characters, but if you dont care about Jack you can side with miranda, if you don't have he necessary paragon or renegade scores to keep them both happy

    same goes for Legion v Tali

    Dhalphir on
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  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I dont know how he did it, I think he sided with Jack, because he didnt realise it was a deal breaker and missed the convo.

    Its kinda cool seeing non-gamers play it, because they dont think like a gamer, they tend to go with their gut and just play it where it lies, he lost 2 crewmembers in the end, and he was blown away.

    Prohass on
  • battledrillbattledrill Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Prohass wrote: »
    I loved Miranda's character, mainly because at first I really disliked her, but she grew on me, so I ended up digging her as like a favourite character.

    Also funny story my friend wanted to romance Miranda, but walked away from the screen after Jack's loyalty mission, he comes back after the fight, with no idea what happened, with two options and Sheps face frozen in expectation. He chose poorly and somehow ended up screwing the pooch with both, he was a virgin shep.

    Bwahaha. That is funny, I lol'd. With Jack and my male Shepard it's awesome. Hes a solider and she uses space magic. It all works out. But I can totally understand why some people like Liara or Miranda better. I just expect Jack to be clean of tattoos, long hair, and skin tight clothes in ME3 when she chooses to be her real self and not the woman her past has led her to be.

    battledrill on

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  • MarikirMarikir Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Well, after not playing this for several months, the note about the DLC being slashed in price spurred me to buy the three story DLCs. I've already helped Liara (and kept that relationship with my Renagon FemShep going) and now am pursuing the Overlord.

    After I finish this, I think I'll go ahead and import my Male ParaShep and try the game with him. I had planned on doing a ME1 run with a utter bastard/racist Adept, but I think I want to stick with ME2 and play out the whole thing Para style first. I think he was a Vanguard...but, I'll figure it out later.

    Thanks for the heads up about the sale!

    Marikir on
    steam_sig.png "Hiding in plain sight." PSN/XBL: Marikir
  • Dox the PIDox the PI Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I just wish there was a way to "Fix" jack without fucking her

    If you help her then turn her down it kind of feels like Shep-Therapy failed

    Dox the PI on
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Solution: Femshep, so she'll never sleep with you.

    Orca on
    evilthecat wrote: »
    "Bioware I want to suck on your teets of gamingness".

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  • BrassDragonBrassDragon Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Yeah I don't know how anyone didn't manage to keep their whole squad alive the very first time they do the suicide mission.

    The thing that bugs me most about the 'suicide mission' is that Bioware included the possibility of getting every main character out alive.

    It would have been so much better if some casualties were inevitable (i.e. going into heated ducts to hack a door is a one-way trip, holding the door means holding it until the bitter the end) - your choices would have meant something, especially if instead of a generic death vignette, each character had a scripted final moment.

    Browsing to gamefaqs and picking the optimal strategy just cheapens the whole thing imo.

    Anyway, going strong on my 21st playthrough. :D

    BrassDragon on
  • Dox the PIDox the PI Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Orca wrote: »
    Solution: Femshep, so she'll never sleep with you.

    hahaha

    Lets not get carried away her guys

    Dox the PI on
  • DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Browsing to gamefaqs and picking the optimal strategy just cheapens the whole thing imo.

    See, I have the reverse opinion. Scenes where you HAVE to lose people lose all impact, because you know there is nothing you could have done - it's just down to the whim of the developers not letting you try anything. Which becomes especially annoying if you realize that you probably could have saved them if the developers would just let you try. However, if there's a chance to save everyone, small or big, then any losses are on your head, not just the developers' say-so. It's the difference between drama and railroading.

    Drascin on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I think it should have been harder to save everyone though. Like, if you had ANY experience at all with the usual structure of how RPGs go, there was no way you were going near that final mission without everyone loyal and everything fully upgraded.

    You had to be really fucking stupid or just really ignorant to lose anyone on the suicide mission.

    Dhalphir on
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  • BrassDragonBrassDragon Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    But the thing is, the inevitability of casualties is repeated so many times throughout the story that it just seems weird when everyone makes it without too much trouble.

    I would it more acceptable if the 'everybody lives' scenario meant that other sacrifices had to be made (for instance, being unable to destroy the collector's science project or Shepard staying behind to save her crew.) Right now, it feels like the suicide mission has little consequence.

    BrassDragon on
  • Dox the PIDox the PI Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Yea, when I got to the end of the suicide mission the first time and everybody was alive I was kind of of like


    oh

    Dox the PI on
  • DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    I think it should have been harder to save everyone though. Like, if you had ANY experience at all with the usual structure of how RPGs go, there was no way you were going near that final mission without everyone loyal and everything fully upgraded.

    You had to be really fucking stupid or just really ignorant to lose anyone on the suicide mission.

    Now that, on the other hand, I could agree with. Saving everyone should take some work and good choices, probably.

    Drascin on
  • battledrillbattledrill Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    When Thane died on my suicide mission I was yelling at the TV "NOOOOOOOOO, bullshit!". And then I knew that I had saved before on the Normandy and would not accept his death until ME3. I am now doing a playthrough where I am cool with Miranda, Jacob or Zaeed dying but not anyone else.

    battledrill on

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  • Dox the PIDox the PI Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I remember listening to my friend from getting legion to the end of the game for the first time over XBL

    Holy crap a Geth

    Holy crap he can talk

    Man this guy is so cool

    I saved his friends :)

    Oh noe my squad is gone

    lets go to the citidel for no reason

    lets do sucide mission

    Legion is my favourite character in ME2 now :D

    OHMAIGOD astroids

    silence

    Me: What?

    Legion died :cry:

    Me: ahahahaha

    Shut up :evil:

    Dox the PI on
  • UltimanecatUltimanecat Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I was biting my nails through my first suicide run since I didn't have Legion loyal at the time, but I wasn't going to leave the rest of my crew in the lurch especially after I got so close after buying them space-oregano. Still got through with everyone intact, though.

    I still resent that Jack, who apparently is down with an extended menage a trois, gets put off when I turn my attentions to other women on my crew. Sure, I expect Tali not to be impressed when I chase Miranda's sweet tail since Tali is a walking, talking insecurity stereotype, but Jack is already on the record as not giving a shit about putting her lovers on lockdown.

    Nothing should be safe from my cybernetic love - I've died once, I now transcend morality.

    Ultimanecat on
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  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Well you can still do Jack as a quickie, just dont expect her to come back for seconds after you've got cerberus-cooties

    Prohass on
  • battledrillbattledrill Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I was biting my nails through my first suicide run since I didn't have Legion loyal at the time, but I wasn't going to leave the rest of my crew in the lurch especially after I got so close after buying them space-oregano. Still got through with everyone intact, though.

    I still resent that Jack, who apparently is down with an extended menage a trois, gets put off when I turn my attentions to other women on my crew. Sure, I expect Tali not to be impressed when I chase Miranda's sweet tail since Tali is a walking, talking insecurity stereotype, but Jack is already on the record as not giving a shit about putting her lovers on lockdown.

    Nothing should be safe from my cybernetic love - I've died once, I now transcend morality.

    If I'm not mistaken you can actually Romance Jack and Tali with neither of them finding out. I think you have to commit to Jack first during the Miranda fight and then go pursue Tali when Jack tells you she needs more time. Play on Playah :winky:

    battledrill on

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  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Yeah as far as I can remember you can quickie jack, but it ruins your chance to 'fix' her, or become involved in any way. And after that shes kinda done with you so you can move on to another shepconquest

    Prohass on
  • KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    The thing about the suicide mission is that it is a suicide mission for normal people.

    But you are COMMANDER BROSEF SHEPARD. The only things that suicide are your enemies.

    Klyka on
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  • DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    But the thing is, the inevitability of casualties is repeated so many times throughout the story that it just seems weird when everyone makes it without too much trouble.

    Personally, I'm not paying much attention to those as I go through the game. There were also many doomsayers in 1 that believed you were absolutely doomed, after all.

    Alternatively, you can just think that that's more to highlight your crew's power. See, no normal team could have done this without everyone dying, and that's why people are convinced you'll all die - there's just no way anyone could do that! But see, what you have is not a normal team - is the absolute cream of the crop of the galaxy.

    For example - when a normal commander needs to do disruption tactics, he sends in a full squad of fully equipped specialist marines. When Shepard needs to do disruption tactics, he sends in motherfucking Garrus.

    When a normal commander needs to hack a system, he sends in a couple tech experts, trained in cyberwarfare ops. When Shepard needs to get into somewhere, he asks Tali, and she takes a moment from building fully functional starships from boxes of scrap and gets the team in.

    When a normal commander believes he will face terrible biological weapons, he will need to commision his superiors for especial suits, fight with his army's medical section so they try to work something out, etcetera. Shepard just points Mordin at the problem and he says "Ah, yes. Biological agents. Airborne, genetic mutators. Challenging. Will need couple hours to have immunizer ready"

    And so on. I believe that who has the greater chances of survival is self-evident :P.

    EDIT: Ah, seems that Klyka ninja'd me with the very base and summation of my joking theory.

    Drascin on
  • UltimanecatUltimanecat Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Yeah, I know. You can tap Jack early on, but after that she stops talking to you and I'm not sure you can get her loyal after that.

    I guess it's a bit of consolation except she has the same hangups all the other women in the party have, she's just even less straightforward about it.

    Ultimanecat on
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  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Basically everyone whos a gamer and kinda knows the ropes will save everyone, but for casual gamers they rarely take the impending doom speech seriously, pretty much every one of my friends whos a casual gamer whos played it has had people die.

    Its just a tradeoff we have to accept, no matter how much they shrowd the process, gamers are gonna see through it and figure it out.

    Its a balance between being able to avoid casualties and having people die from obscure things you never could've anticipated, which would be cool in itself, but I think it would anger and confuse too many to risk it. It would be awesome though, if deaths werent telegraphed, but playtesters would probably overwhelming respond negatively. Those bastards.

    Prohass on
  • battledrillbattledrill Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I don't know what Commander Sheppard you guys are using. But the one I make choices with fixed Jack and has a wide open door with Tali and Kelly at the moment. Sheppard keeps that pimp hand strong. He steps his love game up.

    battledrill on

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