adults-only means 16 and up in Japan, right? I doubt that 15 year olds really buy a lot of manga/anime anyway. Also, it seems like kids could evade this law by going to manga cafes instead.
Imagine as a 16-18 year old having to go to an adult only store to buy a pg-13 movie.
And I'm not sure if manga cafes are allowed to carry adult-only content.
As you can tell by some confusion on what it means, the law is vague enough that they can apply it against homosexual acts if they please, and given that the lead supporter of the bill is a homophobe, it is very likely they'll do so.
Seriously, guy: cite that shit. I've read all the quotes you've provided and I'm not seeing any language that can be twisted to encompass homosexuality; whether gay marriage is illegal or not. Mass confusion doesn't mean the law can be applied to label homosexuality as AO. It means, simply, that the masses are confused. The lawyers aren't going to be.
You're right that the new bill 156 doesn't outright list homosexual relations as part of the illegal acts and thus suggests works involving such (unless between close relatives) should be in the clear.
What does affect those titles is the existing harmful material classification law if creatively used.
It doesn't even need to be that creative.
Here's what Ishihara had to say:
It’s not just about children. We’ve got homosexuals casually appearing even on television. Japan has become far too untamed. I’ll go forward with [this bill] with a sense of mission in heart.
Hmm I wonder what "mission" he's referring to. Well the courts wouldn't allow them to do that, and the lawyers know it can't happen, right?
You might say the courts would never interpret these provisions as far reaching, but the Japanese courts are very right wing and conservative. A number of Japanese lawyers (both working for the industry and independent) say it is worded such that it could be used to censor any work of fiction which contains a depiction of a crime or unlawful death or violence, which includes essentially any anime, manga and games with any kind of action content.
Kind of blows my mind to see people on D&D apathetic about or even supporting of censorship laws.
Even if it were only used to target things like lolicon and incest and other relatively deviant stuff, why is that okay?
It's a law based firmly in moral panic, designed on the surface to fight a boogeyman that doesn't exist, with the actual intent of shaping Japanese culture back into something right-wing old men are comfortable with.
Necessarily? No. But if it were the ruling power's intent was to abuse the old law to oppress homosexual publications, I'm under the impression they've had ample time to do so, what with this being his third term.
We’ve got homosexuals casually appearing even on television. Japan has become far too untamed.
Holy fuck. Is Japan culture-locked in the 50s due to half of it's population being over 50, or something?
Call me nuts, but I just don't think most people will care about this. As I said, this is the same thing that happened to American comics back in the late 40's-early 50's.
Call me nuts, but I just don't think most people will care about this. As I said, this is the same thing that happened to American comics back in the late 40's-early 50's.
So a bit like the Comics Code Authority, something that could last until a Japanese version of Stan Lee decides to do something about it and ends up changing the rules?
I don't think the world could handle two Stan Lees existing at the same time!
Call me nuts, but I just don't think most people will care about this. As I said, this is the same thing that happened to American comics back in the late 40's-early 50's.
So a bit like the Comics Code Authority, something that could last until a Japanese version of Stan Lee decides to do something about it and ends up changing the rules?
I don't think the world could handle two Stan Lees existing at the same time!
Japanese Stan Lee is exactly like normal Stan Lee, only with a goatee instead of a mustache.
I mean, you're just talking about, not organizing against it.
So -- just to make sure I understand your position correctly -- you think that people on a forum titled Debate and Discourse should not, er, debate and discourse upon this topic unless they are actively taking measures to oppose this bill? Do you actively take measures to support (or oppose) every topic you argue in favor of (or in opposition to) on a web forum?
I don't debate and discuss Cherry Coke by calling it [CC 1L] - The American Soda Holocaust and I sure as shit don't photoshop on Hitler mustaches to the bottles.
Call me nuts, but I just don't think most people will care about this. As I said, this is the same thing that happened to American comics back in the late 40's-early 50's.
So a bit like the Comics Code Authority, something that could last until a Japanese version of Stan Lee decides to do something about it and ends up changing the rules?
I don't think the world could handle two Stan Lees existing at the same time!
Or we could just use regular Stan Lee. He does anime too, you know?
EDIT: I get that B:L is passionate about defending the mediums he loves, but this is bloody childish and gets his cause nowhere. Just present the facts and lost the Nazi shit.
All I'm saying is that if someone is so morally outraged by this bill, then they should try to do something about it. It's pretty fucked up, but in time it will fade and the medium will return stronger then ever.
If this sends economic ripples the way some people expect, will that be enough to get killed in Japanese political culture? Or do they stick to their social issue guns in that situation?
Why not just ignore Nemo and continue discussing this law?
Given that the PM has voiced his opinion against this law, do you think much will change?
I'm not entirely familiar with the Japanese politics, but the PM could possibly promote public backlash against this bill, and hopefully that can encourage the courts to rule against it if it is challenged.
A secondary hope is that this encourages the youth to actually vote Ishihara out. It's like how Obama energized the youth vote, except this guy is turning the youth vote out against him.
If this sends economic ripples the way some people expect, will that be enough to get killed in Japanese political culture? Or do they stick to their social issue guns in that situation?
To paraphrase something I read, the last time Japan tried to thought police, it took a nuke or two to change their mind.
'Tis an odd place Japan. I suspect that those who proposed and passed the bill will stick to their guns, but my knowledge of Japanese politics is admittedly limited.
Kind of blows my mind to see people on D&D apathetic about or even supporting of censorship laws.
Even if it were only used to target things like lolicon and incest and other relatively deviant stuff, why is that okay?
It's a law based firmly in moral panic, designed on the surface to fight a boogeyman that doesn't exist, with the actual intent of shaping Japanese culture back into something right-wing old men are comfortable with.
My primary complaint is that they're dealing with stupid shit like this instead of the people groping schoolgirls on trains.
But hey, maybe this will cut down on the schoolgirl-groping. If so, I'm all for it.
Hopefully the potential economic backlash will help turn the tide (given how much they export and how big the industry is here), but the cynic in me doesn't think Ishihara will ever be voted out. I mean, look at the shit he's said, and he's still governor:
In 1990, Ishihara said in a Playboy interview that the Rape of Nanking was a fiction, claiming, "People say that the Japanese made a holocaust but that is not true. It is a story made up by the Chinese. It has tarnished the image of Japan, but it is a lie."
Ishihara said in a 2001 interview with women's magazine Shukan Josei that he believed "old women who live after they have lost their reproductive function are useless and are committing a sin," adding that he "couldn't say this as a politician." He was criticized in the Tokyo Metropolitan Assembly for these comments, but responded that the criticism was driven by "tyrant" "old women."
...in 2004, Ishihara stated that French is unqualified as an international language because it is "a language in which nobody can count," referring to the counting system in French, which he believed to be based on units of twenty rather than ten...
B:L
I'm not too versed in them, either. I've been reading bits and pieces about Kan, but not much. I don't think he'll have near the impact that is needed, personally.
Hopefully the potential economic backlash will help turn the tide (given how much they export and how big the industry is here), but the cynic in me doesn't think Ishihara will ever be voted out. I mean, look at the shit he's said, and he's still governor:
In 1990, Ishihara said in a Playboy interview that the Rape of Nanking was a fiction, claiming, "People say that the Japanese made a holocaust but that is not true. It is a story made up by the Chinese. It has tarnished the image of Japan, but it is a lie."
Ishihara said in a 2001 interview with women's magazine Shukan Josei that he believed "old women who live after they have lost their reproductive function are useless and are committing a sin," adding that he "couldn't say this as a politician." He was criticized in the Tokyo Metropolitan Assembly for these comments, but responded that the criticism was driven by "tyrant" "old women."
...in 2004, Ishihara stated that French is unqualified as an international language because it is "a language in which nobody can count," referring to the counting system in French, which he believed to be based on units of twenty rather than ten...
B:L
I'm not too versed in them, either. I've been reading bits and pieces about Kan, but not much. I don't think he'll have near the impact that is needed, personally.
Half of Japan agrees with him on the first two points, and he's kind of right about the third.
Yeah, I suppose that is true. There are some schools that are taught that the US started shit with Japan, not the other way around. Not to mention that revisionist history museum that opened somewhere. I forget where that was...
I was pretty happy when my English teacher explained the anniversary of Pearl Harbor and what happened therein to the kids (in Japanese, too).
Cokebotle on
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Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratormod
If this sends economic ripples the way some people expect, will that be enough to get killed in Japanese political culture? Or do they stick to their social issue guns in that situation?
To paraphrase something I read, the last time Japan tried to thought police, it took a nuke or two to change their mind.
this is hyperbolic and idiotic
1) explicit labeling of kids shows
2) ?
3) the rape of nanking part 2
Hopefully the potential economic backlash will help turn the tide (given how much they export and how big the industry is here), but the cynic in me doesn't think Ishihara will ever be voted out. I mean, look at the shit he's said, and he's still governor:
In 1990, Ishihara said in a Playboy interview that the Rape of Nanking was a fiction, claiming, "People say that the Japanese made a holocaust but that is not true. It is a story made up by the Chinese. It has tarnished the image of Japan, but it is a lie."
Ishihara said in a 2001 interview with women's magazine Shukan Josei that he believed "old women who live after they have lost their reproductive function are useless and are committing a sin," adding that he "couldn't say this as a politician." He was criticized in the Tokyo Metropolitan Assembly for these comments, but responded that the criticism was driven by "tyrant" "old women."
...in 2004, Ishihara stated that French is unqualified as an international language because it is "a language in which nobody can count," referring to the counting system in French, which he believed to be based on units of twenty rather than ten...
B:L
I'm not too versed in them, either. I've been reading bits and pieces about Kan, but not much. I don't think he'll have near the impact that is needed, personally.
French is pretty awful for counting, to be fair. One out of three is better than average for politicians, really.
If this sends economic ripples the way some people expect, will that be enough to get killed in Japanese political culture? Or do they stick to their social issue guns in that situation?
To paraphrase something I read, the last time Japan tried to thought police, it took a nuke or two to change their mind.
Kind of blows my mind to see people on D&D apathetic about or even supporting of censorship laws.
Even if it were only used to target things like lolicon and incest and other relatively deviant stuff, why is that okay?
It's a law based firmly in moral panic, designed on the surface to fight a boogeyman that doesn't exist, with the actual intent of shaping Japanese culture back into something right-wing old men are comfortable with.
My primary complaint is that they're dealing with stupid shit like this instead of the people groping schoolgirls on trains.
But hey, maybe this will cut down on the schoolgirl-groping. If so, I'm all for it.
The idea of otaku nutjobs reading lolicon manga and kidnapping little girls (to look at the extreme) is basically the same thing as the idea of gamers playing violent video games and going on killing sprees.
It's a bullshit thing spun by the media. Seems like every time anyone goes crazy in Japan, if they read manga or watch anime the media goes nuts.
As you might imagine from the violent video games comparison, this is almost always complete horseshit, even when the perpetrator is an otaku.
But all that aside, I'm of the (perhaps extreme) opinion that even if you could show a link between viewing certain kinds of fiction and committing certain criminal acts, censorship isn't an option that should be considered seriously - there have to be other ways of stopping crap like that without thought-policing.
Kamar on
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Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratormod
If this sends economic ripples the way some people expect, will that be enough to get killed in Japanese political culture? Or do they stick to their social issue guns in that situation?
To paraphrase something I read, the last time Japan tried to thought police, it took a nuke or two to change their mind.
If this sends economic ripples the way some people expect, will that be enough to get killed in Japanese political culture? Or do they stick to their social issue guns in that situation?
To paraphrase something I read, the last time Japan tried to thought police, it took a nuke or two to change their mind.
America had to step in and go "FREEDOM FUCK YEAH" to get rid of it.
you are likening a secret police system to a labeling system for kids shows
do you think you might be a little disproportional here?
The point was to show the typical Japanese mentality towards authoritarianism, with an example from history.
It ain't no thang to them.
Economic factors might not be influencial enough against this bill, as mentioned in the quote tree, but a possible attempt at getting the youth vote out could oust Ishihara.
B:L on
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
Man, B:L, could you write an OP that is even more biased? I'm against such censorship, but you've really written the most biased OP I've ever seen. Ever.
Seeing the word "anime" on Debate and Discourse got my hopes up that we could finally have an anime thread again, but I guess I'll never get to talk about anime to anyone worth conversing with ever again.
If you actually cared, you could just come on IRC instead of posturing about how you don't want to talk with us, but I suppose that's too much effort.
---
You know, this shit wouldn't fly if Taro Aso were still in power.
I went to Japan this past summer with a group of friends and there are literally porn shops on almost every corner in Tokyo. The family marts sell magazines that we'd consider pornographic. We went into a 7 story tall porno shop in Akiabara the electronics district. I think there's a lot less stigma about pornographic material, or at least for the most part what americans would consider pornographic, in Japan, so the people saying "can you imagine having to go into a adult video store to buy a pg-13 game?!" or whatever, I don't think it's as big of a deal over there.
On the same topic, down the street from the zoo we went to was a porn shop, with signs of nude women outside it and kids walking by and stuff. It's a different culture in that regard, they just don't see it as a huge deal. At least that's the impression my friends and I came off with.
Its amazing to me, B:L, that you can be so obsessed with a foreign entertainment medium and yet be content in your massive ignorance of japanese politics and history. It just doesn't track.
Its amazing to me, B:L, that you can be so obsessed with a foreign entertainment medium and yet be content in your massive ignorance of japanese politics and history. It just doesn't track.
You shouldn't be too amazed at this point.
DasUberEdward on
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AriviaI Like A ChallengeEarth-1Registered Userregular
Its amazing to me, B:L, that you can be so obsessed with a foreign entertainment medium and yet be content in your massive ignorance of japanese politics and history. It just doesn't track.
I would be more suportive against the censorship issue if the OP wasn't so obviously biased. I react badly to people telling me what to think, be they Goverment or fantical anime fans.
The governor may be a douchebag, but drawing a hitler mustache on a photo and putting it in the OP is what?
Kipling217 on
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
If this sends economic ripples the way some people expect, will that be enough to get killed in Japanese political culture? Or do they stick to their social issue guns in that situation?
To paraphrase something I read, the last time Japan tried to thought police, it took a nuke or two to change their mind.
America had to step in and go "FREEDOM FUCK YEAH" to get rid of it.
you are likening a secret police system to a labeling system for kids shows
do you think you might be a little disproportional here?
The point was to show the typical Japanese mentality towards authoritarianism, with an example from history.
It ain't no thang to them.
Economic factors might not be influencial enough against this bill, as mentioned in the quote tree, but a possible attempt at getting the youth vote out could oust Ishihara.
Did you ever hear about something called HUAC? I guess the American mentality is naturally diposed towards authoratarianism. It took a threat of nukes from from Russia to straightem 'em out.
Posts
And I'm not sure if manga cafes are allowed to carry adult-only content.
It doesn't even need to be that creative.
Here's what Ishihara had to say:
Hmm I wonder what "mission" he's referring to. Well the courts wouldn't allow them to do that, and the lawyers know it can't happen, right?
UH OH
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
Hopefully the morphogenetic field will take care of the rest.
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
Even if it were only used to target things like lolicon and incest and other relatively deviant stuff, why is that okay?
It's a law based firmly in moral panic, designed on the surface to fight a boogeyman that doesn't exist, with the actual intent of shaping Japanese culture back into something right-wing old men are comfortable with.
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
Necessarily? No. But if it were the ruling power's intent was to abuse the old law to oppress homosexual publications, I'm under the impression they've had ample time to do so, what with this being his third term.
Holy fuck. Is Japan culture-locked in the 50s due to half of it's population being over 50, or something?
In Japanese courts, domestic violence is described as being done by a man to a woman. There is no such thing as a woman being abusive to a man.
So, yes. I believe so.
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
http://dankanemitsu.wordpress.com/2010/11/24/of-illegal-fictional-marriage-and-harmful-fictional-sex/
Here is an article about what we can do about it:
http://dankanemitsu.wordpress.com/2010/12/14/something-people-overseas-can-do-fight-misconceptions-about-bill-156-and-japan/
Raising awareness and fighting misconceptions is a good fight that can aid the overall effort.
Man, I am so great.
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
So a bit like the Comics Code Authority, something that could last until a Japanese version of Stan Lee decides to do something about it and ends up changing the rules?
I don't think the world could handle two Stan Lees existing at the same time!
Japanese Stan Lee is exactly like normal Stan Lee, only with a goatee instead of a mustache.
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
So -- just to make sure I understand your position correctly -- you think that people on a forum titled Debate and Discourse should not, er, debate and discourse upon this topic unless they are actively taking measures to oppose this bill? Do you actively take measures to support (or oppose) every topic you argue in favor of (or in opposition to) on a web forum?
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
EDIT: I get that B:L is passionate about defending the mediums he loves, but this is bloody childish and gets his cause nowhere. Just present the facts and lost the Nazi shit.
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
Given that the PM has voiced his opinion against this law, do you think much will change?
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
A secondary hope is that this encourages the youth to actually vote Ishihara out. It's like how Obama energized the youth vote, except this guy is turning the youth vote out against him.
To paraphrase something I read, the last time Japan tried to thought police, it took a nuke or two to change their mind.
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
But hey, maybe this will cut down on the schoolgirl-groping. If so, I'm all for it.
B:L
I'm not too versed in them, either. I've been reading bits and pieces about Kan, but not much. I don't think he'll have near the impact that is needed, personally.
I was pretty happy when my English teacher explained the anniversary of Pearl Harbor and what happened therein to the kids (in Japanese, too).
this is hyperbolic and idiotic
1) explicit labeling of kids shows
2) ?
3) the rape of nanking part 2
French is pretty awful for counting, to be fair. One out of three is better than average for politicians, really.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokubetsu_K%C5%8Dt%C5%8D_Keisatsu
America had to step in and go "FREEDOM FUCK YEAH" to get rid of it.
The idea of otaku nutjobs reading lolicon manga and kidnapping little girls (to look at the extreme) is basically the same thing as the idea of gamers playing violent video games and going on killing sprees.
It's a bullshit thing spun by the media. Seems like every time anyone goes crazy in Japan, if they read manga or watch anime the media goes nuts.
As you might imagine from the violent video games comparison, this is almost always complete horseshit, even when the perpetrator is an otaku.
But all that aside, I'm of the (perhaps extreme) opinion that even if you could show a link between viewing certain kinds of fiction and committing certain criminal acts, censorship isn't an option that should be considered seriously - there have to be other ways of stopping crap like that without thought-policing.
you are likening a secret police system to a labeling system for kids shows
do you think you might be a little disproportional here?
like
"the highschool wouldn't let me put up my poster with profanity on it for spirit week. tomorrow they will be the schutzstaffel"
It ain't no thang to them.
Economic factors might not be influencial enough against this bill, as mentioned in the quote tree, but a possible attempt at getting the youth vote out could oust Ishihara.
---
You know, this shit wouldn't fly if Taro Aso were still in power.
On the same topic, down the street from the zoo we went to was a porn shop, with signs of nude women outside it and kids walking by and stuff. It's a different culture in that regard, they just don't see it as a huge deal. At least that's the impression my friends and I came off with.
You shouldn't be too amazed at this point.
[weeaboo]
The governor may be a douchebag, but drawing a hitler mustache on a photo and putting it in the OP is what?
Did you ever hear about something called HUAC? I guess the American mentality is naturally diposed towards authoratarianism. It took a threat of nukes from from Russia to straightem 'em out.