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Welcome to Oz [AMERICAN PRISON SYSTEM]

jungleroomxjungleroomx Aaron Hernandez shot methrough the heartRegistered User regular
edited December 2010 in Debate and/or Discourse
Much ado has been made of PFC Mannings imprisonment. However, questions have arisen (more so to the light than in general) about the prison system in America as a whole as a result.

"Since his arrest in May, Manning has been a model detainee, without any episodes of violence or disciplinary problems. He nonetheless was declared from the start to be a "Maximum Custody Detainee," the highest and most repressive level of military detention, which then became the basis for the series of inhumane measures imposed on him."

Excerpt from the Salon article about his treatment in military prison.

The basis of the argument on both sides is as such:

CON: Solitary confinement without any amenities such as a pillow or extended interaction (Past the hour for exercise, visits) is in accordance with solitary confinement being torture. The prison system in the US is messed up and is treating prisoners worse than it should, especially the military prison system.

PRO: The conditions for solitary confinement in supermax military prisons does not meet the criteria for torture. In PFC Mannings case, he is a high-profile prisoner accused of releasing documentation classified as "Secret" to an entity known for publishing said information, and while he awaits trial the conditions he has been put in, for his type of crime, are the norm.

This seemed to be a pretty weighty subject in the Wikileaks thread, so I decided to make another OP before the tangent took over the discussion.

Any ideas? Opinions?

jungleroomx on
Spoiler:
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Posts

  • enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Nitpick on the CON in the OP "without any amenities such as ... interaction." I'm under the impression that he does get interaction, including an hour out of his cell every day. I.e., he's held in his own cell (solitary) but he's not "in the hole."

  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Aaron Hernandez shot me through the heartRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Changed.

    Although I would imagine solitary prisoners having different exercise time than the rest of the inmates, presumably under direct supervision. That's always been my understanding of the process.

    Spoiler:
  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2010
    An hour a day is still bugger-all. I think treatment like that prior to conviction is well over the top, and would require strong justification after conviction.

    Edit: And if I'm remembering my John Grisham correctly, the conditions he's being kept under are those only usually applied to death row inmates, or as a temporary punishment for violent prisoners. After conviction.

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  • 3lwap03lwap0 Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Changed.

    Although I would imagine solitary prisoners having different exercise time than the rest of the inmates, presumably under direct supervision. That's always been my understanding of the process.

    If the process is similar to Supermax, they get a 40x40 yard concrete box to run around in, by themselves. No interaction with anyone, save the brief trip there by the guards, who are very likely under orders to keep talking with him to a minimum.

    Outside of meal delivery, medical, and any trips to the exercise yard, that's probably it, and probably very scant interaction. Part of the psychology of 'doing your time', is learning to find ways to pass the time. Since he doesn't have anything in cell, and they won't let him exercise in his cell, God knows how he's staying sane.

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  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    There's also the issue that this goes beyond what the US decides is torture or not, but also what their allies think (obviously the US doesn't seem to think that this solitary confinement is torture, but the EU does).

    This makes it a lot harder for them to work in concert with European nations on the war on terror (or just crime in general if we go by what some people were saying in the last thread in that this isn't out of the ordinary for civilian prisons/jails as well) because the US won't be allowed to extradite suspects out of Europe due to the threat of torture. Also going to generate a ton of bad press because "the US tortures!" is going to get brought up everytime this happens.

    It could also effect evidence sharing as MI6 have said
    If we know or believe action by us will lead to torture taking place, we're required by UK and international law to avoid that action, and we do, even though that allows that terrorist activity to go ahead

    Obviously a lot rides on the cases that are mentioned in the salon article in the first post.

  • ShadowfireShadowfire Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Just a thought... he's in a military prison, yes? And he's accused of leaking classified documents, essentially betraying the country. Whatever you feel about the charges, he's in a prison with other military members. Is solitary the best way to keep Manning alive, as opposed to deershanked in genpop?

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  • CasedOutCasedOut Registered User
    edited December 2010
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Just a thought... he's in a military prison, yes? And he's accused of leaking classified documents, essentially betraying the country. Whatever you feel about the charges, he's in a prison with other military members. Is solitary the best way to keep Manning alive, as opposed to deershanked in genpop?

    this part made me laugh out loud

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  • TL DRTL DR Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    The Cat wrote: »
    An hour a day is still bugger-all. I think treatment like that prior to conviction is well over the top, and would require strong justification after conviction.

    Edit: And if I'm remembering my John Grisham correctly, the conditions he's being kept under are those only usually applied to death row inmates, or as a temporary punishment for violent prisoners. After conviction.

    Yeah, Manning is being treated this way because he's being made an example out of. "Embarrass the political elite and we will throw you in a hole until your mind snaps, then force medicate you and keep on keepin' on."

    eokNV.jpg
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    CasedOut wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Just a thought... he's in a military prison, yes? And he's accused of leaking classified documents, essentially betraying the country. Whatever you feel about the charges, he's in a prison with other military members. Is solitary the best way to keep Manning alive, as opposed to deershanked in genpop?

    this part made me laugh out loud

    I'm not saying I agree with it, but that's how it's being spun.

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  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Aaron Hernandez shot me through the heartRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    CasedOut wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Just a thought... he's in a military prison, yes? And he's accused of leaking classified documents, essentially betraying the country. Whatever you feel about the charges, he's in a prison with other military members. Is solitary the best way to keep Manning alive, as opposed to deershanked in genpop?

    this part made me laugh out loud

    Agree or disagree with it, the leaking of secret documents is considered:

    Breach of security clearance
    Breach of military oath

    Just because the leaks are "lol stupid politicians news at 11" doesn't mean he didn't willingly violate some pretty clear conditions of his situation, both the clearance and being in the military. Betrayal of country may be a little harsh or dramatic terminology, but the basic principle is pretty sound, as far as legally.

    Morally, well, going on whether or not's never gets anywhere. Discussion should be framed in the context of existing laws, because discussion the legality of said context is an entirely different thread altogether. This is a discussion about the conditions of where he is, not the morality of the laws he broke to get there.

    Spoiler:
  • DarkCrawlerDarkCrawler Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Well, if this is a general American prison system thread, seeing as it's by far the most horrific prison system out of any industrialized country, and with few non-industrialized country...so this isn't exactly a surprise.

  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Aaron Hernandez shot me through the heartRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Well, if this is a general American prison system thread, seeing as it's by far the most horrific prison system out of any industrialized country, and with few non-industrialized country...so this isn't exactly a surprise.

    I wonder exactly how much our prisons would benefit from the decriminalization or legalization of marijuana.

    I just imagine the places getting cleared right the fuck out, like it's a penal Christmas break.

    Spoiler:
  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I don't think there's anyone who can make a single valid argument in favor of the american prison system.

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  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Aaron Hernandez shot me through the heartRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    The Cat wrote: »
    An hour a day is still bugger-all. I think treatment like that prior to conviction is well over the top, and would require strong justification after conviction.

    Edit: And if I'm remembering my John Grisham correctly, the conditions he's being kept under are those only usually applied to death row inmates, or as a temporary punishment for violent prisoners. After conviction.

    Yeah, Manning is being treated this way because he's being made an example out of. "Embarrass the political elite and we will throw you in a hole until your mind snaps, then force medicate you and keep on keepin' on."

    Judging by the treatment I've seen of other people who have violated military law, and going by the fact that, in accordance with standing standard operating procedures and laws, his treatment isn't that far off the mark from the norm in the UCMJ side of the law. However, his prominence in the media may have prompted a harsher condition than normal, under the guise of "protecting him" from other inmates or even guards.

    The military has a history of "making an example of" people. It's ingrained into the culture.

    We had a guy get 6 months for selling 3 non-secret military laptops with the hard drives wiped. If he had sold them with secret information in them, even just a few scraps, then 6 months turns into 6 years in the blink of an eye, and it's no longer being placed in a corrections facility: It's off to Kansas.

    The violation of clearance carries with it some extremely harsh measures.

    Spoiler:
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I don't think there's anyone who can make a single valid argument in favor of the american prison system.
    The civilian, for-profit prison system is a ridiculous concept on its face and it only gets worse when you dig.

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  • DrukDruk Registered User
    edited December 2010
    Do other countries have nearly as big a problem with prison rape as we do in the USA? I would assume with a smaller prison population that other countries can better handle their inmates, right?

    As far as Pvt.Manning goes, isn't there some sort of allowed exception to orders that you feel are immoral? While I doubt any of his actions can ever be interpreted as allowed under that exception, is there any type of information leak that would have been allowed? If so, where is the line?

  • TL DRTL DR Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Druk wrote: »
    Do other countries have nearly as big a problem with prison rape as we do in the USA? I would assume with a smaller prison population that other countries can better handle their inmates, right?

    As far as Pvt.Manning goes, isn't there some sort of allowed exception to orders that you feel are immoral? While I doubt any of his actions can ever be interpreted as allowed under that exception, is there any type of information leak that would have been allowed? If so, where is the line?

    Shit, they'd have prosecuted the leak of the Pentagon Papers if not for Mike Gravel being a sneaky senate ninja. Basically, the Constitution forbids the prosecution of legislators for business conducted in the house, so he was able to use his time on the Senate floor to read them into the Congressional Record.

    You can't justify leaking classified docs without levying an indictment at the entire corrupt system, which nobody is going to be willing to do.

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  • zeenyzeeny Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I don't think there's anyone who can make a single valid argument in favor of the american prison system.

    Making it more sane would lead to higher unemployment!

  • bowenbowen Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Whilst classified information, none of that matters because a FOIA request can basically get the same information, pretty much. I'm not really sure why he's being treated the way he is.

  • TL DRTL DR Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    With so many of our citizens in prison compared with the rest of the world, there are only two possibilities: Either we are home to the most evil people on earth or we are doing something different--and vastly counterproductive. Obviously, the answer is the latter.

    Over the past two decades, we have been incarcerating more and more people for nonviolent crimes and for acts that are driven by mental illness or drug dependence. The U.S. Department of Justice estimates that 16% of the adult inmates in American prisons and jails--which means more than 350,000 of those locked up--suffer from mental illness, and the percentage in juvenile custody is even higher.

    Basically, policing has been expanded while mental health and other services have been withdrawn, meaning that the police and prisons are now responsible for handling drug addiction and mental illness. It no work so good!

    eokNV.jpg
  • amateurhouramateurhour Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Well, if this is a general American prison system thread, seeing as it's by far the most horrific prison system out of any industrialized country, and with few non-industrialized country...so this isn't exactly a surprise.

    I wonder exactly how much our prisons would benefit from the decriminalization or legalization of marijuana.

    I just imagine the places getting cleared right the fuck out, like it's a penal Christmas break.

    While I agree with the idea of decriminalization, there have to be more steps taken before it can happen. The rate of recidivism is ridiculous in the US due to poor prison management and an even worse parolee system.

    Just releasing a bunch of former inmates "into the wild" so to speak, overnight, would have really bad consequences. Most of them, faced with the inability to find a job, both due to the current economy and the negative stereotype put on former inmates, along with the general personality shift that a person goes through due to an extended stay in a correctional facility, pretty much guarantees most of them will return to a life of crime at some point.

    I don't know the exact numbers now, but I know they're high, like 75% high.

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  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    The way Manning is being treated reminds me of what they did to a guy in a book called Richter 10. It was basically the exact same thing. If they left a rope with a noose in it in his room each morning and cut out that 1 hour a day of implied contact, they'd be there.

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  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Well, if this is a general American prison system thread, seeing as it's by far the most horrific prison system out of any industrialized country, and with few non-industrialized country...so this isn't exactly a surprise.

    I wonder exactly how much our prisons would benefit from the decriminalization or legalization of marijuana.

    I just imagine the places getting cleared right the fuck out, like it's a penal Christmas break.

    While I agree with the idea of decriminalization, there have to be more steps taken before it can happen. The rate of recidivism is ridiculous in the US due to poor prison management and an even worse parolee system.

    Just releasing a bunch of former inmates "into the wild" so to speak, overnight, would have really bad consequences. Most of them, faced with the inability to find a job, both due to the current economy and the negative stereotype put on former inmates, along with the general personality shift that a person goes through due to an extended stay in a correctional facility, pretty much guarantees most of them will return to a life of crime at some point.

    I don't know the exact numbers now, but I know they're high, like 75% high.

    Decriminilization has fuck-all to do with releasing prisoners currently serving jail time.

  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I have an issue with a guy treated like this pre-conviction. I believe that until someone is convicted of a crime, they should be segregated from convicts and kept in conditions that are only as oppressive as is necessary to keep them from escaping, being assaulted by other inmates or hurting themselves or others.

    Post-conviction, solitary or supermax-type imprionment should only be used in very unusual situations.

    In Manning's case, unless there is some evidence that he is an escape risk or there is some danger to him or others, I don't see any reason to keep the guy locked up in close to solitary conditions.

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  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Modern Man wrote: »
    I have an issue with a guy treated like this pre-conviction. I believe that until someone is convicted of a crime, they should be segregated from convicts and kept in conditions that are only as oppressive as is necessary to keep them from escaping, being assaulted by other inmates or hurting themselves or others.

    Post-conviction, solitary or supermax-type imprionment should only be used in very unusual situations.

    In Manning's case, unless there is some evidence that he is an escape risk or there is some danger to him or others, I don't see any reason to keep the guy locked up in close to solitary conditions.

    I agree. Take note, everyone: whenever I agree with ModernMan on something, the rightness of that position is ridiculously obvious. The way Manning is being treated is despicable and tortuous.

    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
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  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Modern Man wrote: »
    I have an issue with a guy treated like this pre-conviction. I believe that until someone is convicted of a crime, they should be segregated from convicts and kept in conditions that are only as oppressive as is necessary to keep them from escaping, being assaulted by other inmates or hurting themselves or others.

    This is why I laugh whenever somebody is all "I can't believe they let that guy walk on bail!!" They aren't guilty yet. Provided you trust they'll show for trial, there's no reason for them to be confined at all.

    Let alone like this.
    Post-conviction, solitary or supermax-type imprionment should only be used in very unusual situations.

    In Manning's case, unless there is some evidence that he is an escape risk or there is some danger to him or others, I don't see any reason to keep the guy locked up in close to solitary conditions.

    Even if he's ruled to be a danger to himself, or others are a danger to him, the situation should be no more restrictive than necessary to protect him...not punitive. Particularly pre-conviction. But even post-conviction, the confinement itself should be the bulk of the punitive action against them; not the conditions. It shouldn't be Club Med, or anything...but this is ridiculous.

    Then there's the fact that once you build Supermax prisons there's the incentive to fill them...regardless of whether the convict in question is appropriate for it. So you wind up with relatively low-level drug offenders in them.

    Spoiler:
  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    The fact that we even have a "prison industry" in this country is an embarrassment and a shame on all of us. When there is real economic incentive to put people in prison and keep them there, we've fucked up.

    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I'd like to point out we don't really have very reliable or contextual information on the way Manning is being kept.

    But yeah our civilian penal system is pretty bad but what do you expect from a society that views prison rape as a joke?

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  • DrukDruk Registered User
    edited December 2010
    wwtMask wrote: »
    The fact that we even have a "prison industry" in this country is an embarrassment and a shame on all of us. When there is real economic incentive to put people in prison and keep them there, we've fucked up.

    Well isn't there an economic incentive behind wanting to put fraudsters and murderers in a place where they don't have the freedom to repeat their offenses? :)
    But I'll just assume your meaning is more "...incentive to put [non-violent/harmless] people in prison..."

  • 3lwap03lwap0 Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    bowen wrote: »
    Whilst classified information, none of that matters because a FOIA request can basically get the same information, pretty much. I'm not really sure why he's being treated the way he is.

    You are incorrect sir. A FOIA request is just that - a request. Under no circumstances is the government obligated to disclose anything (See: The Intelligence Authorization Act of 2002) More importantly, a diplomatic cable (arguably what got Manning in this hot water) will never, ever be released by a FOIA request - ever. Maybe...30 years from now, which is a standard 'declassify on' date. Basically, when it loses it's usefulness to anyone.

    To clarify: I routinely work with classified information, and on rare occasion, see a FOIA request come by.

    I think Pringles original intention was to make tennis balls... but on the day the rubber was supposed to show up a truckload of potatoes came. Pringles is a laid-back company, so they just said, "Fuck it, cut em up!".
  • y2jake215y2jake215 I found a girl and brought her back, because that's what a daddy do. Stay wild, blap blap blap. Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    Well, if this is a general American prison system thread, seeing as it's by far the most horrific prison system out of any industrialized country, and with few non-industrialized country...so this isn't exactly a surprise.

    I wonder exactly how much our prisons would benefit from the decriminalization or legalization of marijuana.

    I just imagine the places getting cleared right the fuck out, like it's a penal Christmas break.

    While I agree with the idea of decriminalization, there have to be more steps taken before it can happen. The rate of recidivism is ridiculous in the US due to poor prison management and an even worse parolee system.

    Just releasing a bunch of former inmates "into the wild" so to speak, overnight, would have really bad consequences. Most of them, faced with the inability to find a job, both due to the current economy and the negative stereotype put on former inmates, along with the general personality shift that a person goes through due to an extended stay in a correctional facility, pretty much guarantees most of them will return to a life of crime at some point.

    I don't know the exact numbers now, but I know they're high, like 75% high.

    Decriminilization has fuck-all to do with releasing prisoners currently serving jail time.

    when something IS decriminalized, what does happen to people serving time for breaking that law? is it just tough titties, you're grandfather clause'd into finishing your sentence?

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  • Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Druk wrote: »
    wwtMask wrote: »
    The fact that we even have a "prison industry" in this country is an embarrassment and a shame on all of us. When there is real economic incentive to put people in prison and keep them there, we've fucked up.

    Well isn't there an economic incentive behind wanting to put fraudsters and murderers in a place where they don't have the freedom to repeat their offenses? :)
    But I'll just assume your meaning is more "...incentive to put [non-violent/harmless] people in prison..."

    But when private interests works with government official to make laws that'll put more people in prison, that shit is mess up.

    Prison corporations were throwing up tent prisons left and right in Arizona in preparation for the racial profiling law that they helped write.

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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    Well, if this is a general American prison system thread, seeing as it's by far the most horrific prison system out of any industrialized country, and with few non-industrialized country...so this isn't exactly a surprise.

    I wonder exactly how much our prisons would benefit from the decriminalization or legalization of marijuana.

    I just imagine the places getting cleared right the fuck out, like it's a penal Christmas break.

    While I agree with the idea of decriminalization, there have to be more steps taken before it can happen. The rate of recidivism is ridiculous in the US due to poor prison management and an even worse parolee system.

    Just releasing a bunch of former inmates "into the wild" so to speak, overnight, would have really bad consequences. Most of them, faced with the inability to find a job, both due to the current economy and the negative stereotype put on former inmates, along with the general personality shift that a person goes through due to an extended stay in a correctional facility, pretty much guarantees most of them will return to a life of crime at some point.

    I don't know the exact numbers now, but I know they're high, like 75% high.

    Decriminilization has fuck-all to do with releasing prisoners currently serving jail time.

    when something IS decriminalized, what does happen to people serving time for breaking that law? is it just tough titties, you're grandfather clause'd into finishing your sentence?

    Good question. If something isn't very serious then I would imagine the bill that decriminalizes it forgives the offense, but I don't think there is any legal obligation what so ever to release people if their crime is later legalized. Sort of like a reverse of the way you can't be put in jail for something criminalized after the fact.

    sig.jpg
  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    Well, if this is a general American prison system thread, seeing as it's by far the most horrific prison system out of any industrialized country, and with few non-industrialized country...so this isn't exactly a surprise.

    I wonder exactly how much our prisons would benefit from the decriminalization or legalization of marijuana.

    I just imagine the places getting cleared right the fuck out, like it's a penal Christmas break.

    While I agree with the idea of decriminalization, there have to be more steps taken before it can happen. The rate of recidivism is ridiculous in the US due to poor prison management and an even worse parolee system.

    Just releasing a bunch of former inmates "into the wild" so to speak, overnight, would have really bad consequences. Most of them, faced with the inability to find a job, both due to the current economy and the negative stereotype put on former inmates, along with the general personality shift that a person goes through due to an extended stay in a correctional facility, pretty much guarantees most of them will return to a life of crime at some point.

    I don't know the exact numbers now, but I know they're high, like 75% high.

    Decriminilization has fuck-all to do with releasing prisoners currently serving jail time.

    when something IS decriminalized, what does happen to people serving time for breaking that law? is it just tough titties, you're grandfather clause'd into finishing your sentence?

    Good question. If something isn't very serious then I would imagine the bill that decriminalizes it forgives the offense, but I don't think there is any legal obligation what so ever to release people if their crime is later legalized. Sort of like a reverse of the way you can't be put in jail for something criminalized after the fact.
    I think anyone convicted under a repealed law would have to be released. If the law you were convicted of is no longer in existence, the government can't hold you in prison for violations of the non-existent law.

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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    3lwap0 wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Whilst classified information, none of that matters because a FOIA request can basically get the same information, pretty much. I'm not really sure why he's being treated the way he is.

    You are incorrect sir. A FOIA request is just that - a request. Under no circumstances is the government obligated to disclose anything (See: The Intelligence Authorization Act of 2002) More importantly, a diplomatic cable (arguably what got Manning in this hot water) will never, ever be released by a FOIA request - ever. Maybe...30 years from now, which is a standard 'declassify on' date. Basically, when it loses it's usefulness to anyone.

    To clarify: I routinely work with classified information, and on rare occasion, see a FOIA request come by.

    A FOIA request is only optional if the government can show that it meets the criteria for not disclosing.

    However I think "being classified" is actually one of those criteria, so...yeah.

  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic I've Done Worse Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Modern Man wrote: »
    I think anyone convicted under a repealed law would have to be released. If the law you were convicted of is no longer in existence, the government can't hold you in prison for violations of the non-existent law.
    There is a big difference between a law that is repealed and a law that is ruled unconstitutional.

    I think they would have to be released in the latter but am unsure of the former. A repeal is saying a law is no longer required, not that the law was wrong or unjust. Those who broke it (hypothetically) still broke a law in effect at the time they broke it.

  • 3lwap03lwap0 Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    3lwap0 wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Whilst classified information, none of that matters because a FOIA request can basically get the same information, pretty much. I'm not really sure why he's being treated the way he is.

    You are incorrect sir. A FOIA request is just that - a request. Under no circumstances is the government obligated to disclose anything (See: The Intelligence Authorization Act of 2002) More importantly, a diplomatic cable (arguably what got Manning in this hot water) will never, ever be released by a FOIA request - ever. Maybe...30 years from now, which is a standard 'declassify on' date. Basically, when it loses it's usefulness to anyone.

    To clarify: I routinely work with classified information, and on rare occasion, see a FOIA request come by.

    A FOIA request is only optional if the government can show that it meets the criteria for not disclosing.

    However I think "being classified" is actually one of those criteria, so...yeah.

    Believe it or not, it was kind of in a gray area - the The Intelligence Authorization Act of 2002 exempted any Intelligence Agency (military, Treasury, and appropriately Department of State).

    I think Pringles original intention was to make tennis balls... but on the day the rubber was supposed to show up a truckload of potatoes came. Pringles is a laid-back company, so they just said, "Fuck it, cut em up!".
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Ann Arbor, MichiganRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    This seems worth noting.
    Of the 2.3 million people in American jails, 806,000 are black males. African-Americans--males and females--make up .6 percent of the entire world's population, but African-American males--alone--make up 8 percent of the entire world's prison population.

  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    .6 percent?

    that doesn't seem right.

    edit: was just thinking african descent

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  • DeShadowCDeShadowC Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Modern Man wrote: »
    I think anyone convicted under a repealed law would have to be released. If the law you were convicted of is no longer in existence, the government can't hold you in prison for violations of the non-existent law.
    There is a big difference between a law that is repealed and a law that is ruled unconstitutional.

    I think they would have to be released in the latter but am unsure of the former. A repeal is saying a law is no longer required, not that the law was wrong or unjust. Those who broke it (hypothetically) still broke a law in effect at the time they broke it.

    It varies. If you're convicted under an appealed law you're still considered a convict unless the repeal specifically mentions releasing said convicts.
    The Cat wrote: »
    Edit: And if I'm remembering my John Grisham correctly, the conditions he's being kept under are those only usually applied to death row inmates, or as a temporary punishment for violent prisoners. After conviction.

    I can tell you from experience this is incorrect.

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