Just finished my second game of Battles of Westeros. I think I like it. I'm not much of a strategy gamer, let alone wargamer... but I felt I could get into the game after a while. A scenario lasts just a smidge longer than I felt necessary, and at the end of the second game I still didn't quite feel in control of the game's flow, and just too reliant on dice rolls. But that might just be my lack of strategically sound playing. I think there are a lot of nice and interesting elements to the game, that demand some strategic decision-making. Like holding back command cards to get the advantage on the next turn, or even tactically engaging enemy troops to cut off movement for your opponent and the like, or keeping your formation close together to take advantage of command cards.
But I didn't feel that strategic decisions paid off in the long run, and that the dice always seemed to be as influential on your winning chances before and after you've made sound decisions. Although that might just have been some freakish dice rolls in our two games. (No flag symbols and only a handful of archer hits in our first game, and an abundance of both in our second game.)
I've since had a look at the second scenario and it does seem much more interesting and dynamic than the first, so I'm looking forward to giving the game another go next week. I've not quite grasped the strategic depth of BoW, and I sometimes feel like I keep having to wade through a lot of chrome to get to it; but I think there's more tactics and strategy to get out of this game. At least more than just "charge your enemy and hope to roll as many appropriate symbols as possible".
Just finished my second game of Battles of Westeros. I think I like it. I'm not much of a strategy gamer, let alone wargamer... but I felt I could get into the game after a while. A scenario lasts just a smidge longer than I felt necessary, and at the end of the second game I still didn't quite feel in control of the game's flow, and just too reliant on dice rolls. But that might just be my lack of strategically sound playing. I think there are a lot of nice and interesting elements to the game, that demand some strategic decision-making. Like holding back command cards to get the advantage on the next turn, or even tactically engaging enemy troops to cut off movement for your opponent and the like, or keeping your formation close together to take advantage of command cards.
But I didn't feel that strategic decisions paid off in the long run, and that the dice always seemed to be as influential on your winning chances before and after you've made sound decisions. Although that might just have been some freakish dice rolls in our two games. (No flag symbols and only a handful of archer hits in our first game, and an abundance of both in our second game.)
I've since had a look at the second scenario and it does seem much more interesting and dynamic than the first, so I'm looking forward to giving the game another go next week. I've not quite grasped the strategic depth of BoW, and I sometimes feel like I keep having to wade through a lot of chrome to get to it; but I think there's more tactics and strategy to get out of this game. At least more than just "charge your enemy and hope to roll as many appropriate symbols as possible".
The game is very dice heavy; that's definitely true. With games like that, though, the better player is one who minimizes how much dice rolls can affect his overall strategy.
blahmcblahYou pick your side and you stick - you don't cut and run when things get ugly.Registered Userregular
edited July 2011
What the fuck? Battleship? By Colby Dauch? I fucking hate Battleship, but love Summoner Wars, so you see my dilemma. My wife is the complete opposite, so maybe I'll just get it and not tell her who designed it.
The game is very dice heavy; that's definitely true. With games like that, though, the better player is one who minimizes how much dice rolls can affect his overall strategy.
I'm not sure how to actually do that. It seems to me that dice rolls are placed at some very crucial points in a turn structure, so how does one go about minimising their influence?
To be honest, I don't really mind the dice but I would like to try my hand at some more strategic play, getting a feel for it and so on. I look at BoW as my "strategy games training wheels", so any hints and insights into what's possible in the game would be greatly appreciated.
AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
edited July 2011
Oh man. Battleship Galaxies? Given how I always have my eyes open for space-themed War Games (I love Aerotech more than Battletech, for instance), this blows my mind.
Sadly I am in a bit of a financial crunch this paycheck due to picking up Miskatonic horror (BUY IT IF YOU OWN ARKHAM, but it is more justifiable the more expansions you have), and due to the Steam sale.
Didn't get to Nerath, but we played some Fealty, which is a sorta-area-control-but-not-until-later game from Asmadi, who did Innovation. It's quite solid.
Battle of Westeros is based on the Battlelore system yeah? If it's quite similar to Battlelore I'd say that there isn't really much you can do to mitigate the dice. This is probably just me being overly cynical but one of my friends really got into Battlelore and wanted to play it a lot but after about a week I couldn't stomach the game anymore. When I won it felt like it was because I happened to roll better than my opponent, when I lost it's because he happened to roll better than me. (Or got better magic cards, or whatever). You roll too few dice over the course of the game, and too few of the results are 'hits.' As a consequence I feel like that game is always going to be a terribly streaky dice fest.
Of course, I don't know how Battle of Westeros differs from Battlelore.
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NocrenLt Futz, Back in ActionNorth CarolinaRegistered Userregular
edited July 2011
So I read about Betrayal at the House on the Hill on tvtropes about a year or so ago and was excited by the idea behind it (standard "build as you go" type exploration game for 3-6 players but then one player will betray the others) so I asked my local store if they could track down and was told that it was out of print.
Walked in yesterday to pick something up and saw that Avalon Hill did a second edition so I picked it up.
I went looking for Battleship Galaxies and found out it comes out on the 12th of July? So how were you able to time travel and get it?
I checked this morning and saw the official release date listed as 7/8/11, so I went to my FLGS on my lunch break and picked up a copy. Damn this game looks awesome.
Just one note of caution: the game comes with 2 cardboard screens and the stands are already attached on either side of each screen. One of the side stands snagged to some other part of the box, and I nearly ripped it off. Will be easy to repair, but be careful anyways when unpacking the game. :P
So I'm a big fan of Risk and have the 1998 version and its two expansions, Risk: GodStorm and Risk: 2210. What other games are like this that aren't expensive as hell? The most I'll pay is $40 or $50, but I saw Twilight Imperium and don't feel like paying anywhere from $70 to a $100 bucks for it. Are there any suggestions for a cheap but fun game?
Battle of Westeros is based on the Battlelore system yeah? If it's quite similar to Battlelore I'd say that there isn't really much you can do to mitigate the dice.
According to most reviews, BoW only shares a superficial similarity with Battlelore. And by all accounts it seems to be less dice-heavy than Battlelore, too.
In the meantime I've managed to sneak in another game of BoW. Again with scenario #1, but this time playing the Starks. We've been playing with two rules fundamentally wrong, which made playing the Lannister incredibly difficult.
Rules mistake no.1 - the Lannisters get to replace the Stark tokens on the board with their own should they end their turn there. We just assumed, you'd have to finish turn 5 on the two spaces or lose the game. In hindsight this would have won me the first game, although not the second.
Rules mistake no.2 - if you're standing on a ford, your attacks are NOT penalised; only counter-attacks are. This crucial difference would most likely have made a difference when trying to fight the archers in the woods. I might have actually won both games that way.
And finally, now that I am somewhat familiar with the rules, I am starting to adjust my play. Starting with the fundamental insight that during a single turn you will most likely not get to move every unit, and it's often not necessary to do so either. In fact, it's better to look at the most efficient way to move your troops AND their commander closer to wherever you want them; and that keeping your troops in a huddle of three is a very effective, as it keeps them stalwart. Trying to move as many troops, and engage the enemy as often as possible, always made the rules feel restrictive and the game frustratingly hard to manage. Trying instead to move my troops to a position from which they might be able to either block passage, or at least threaten important spaces is a far more sensible goal. The archers kept Lannister away from the river for 3 turns, simply by camping in the woods. This also makes you somewhat less dependent on the opening dice rolls. Once you accept you will only move some of your troops each turn, the dice rolls are less of a random restriction on your actions and more of a way to simulate the ebb and flow of troop movement.
I think I am slowly getting the hang of this game. I still don't think I am any good - after three games - but I think I'm starting to grasp how I can become better at it. So that's a start at least.
Conquest of Nerath is a new game, based on the DnD universe, where you lead your forces to conquer the world. Played with 2-4 players, either individually in a free-for-all or with 2 alliances. The four players all have the same units, but each has an individual deck that they draw from that represents their racial powers and abilities. Could be a good risk-like for you.
Other games to consider (from BGG's "The Best Alternatives to Risk"):
A Game of Thrones (about to be reprinted by FFG)
Nexus Ops (out of print?)
Axis & Allies (much more complex, though)
Rune Wars (probably too expensive)
Small World (quick and light; Vinci is on that list, but Small World is an updated version of it)
Okay, looking to check prices on those and I see that A Game of Thrones and Nexus Ops are both unavailable at the moment (outside of used copies). But Nexus Ops recently released an iPad version, and the Game of Thrones license is at the height of its popularity from the recent TV show. Why don't the game companies make sure their games are on the shelfs when people would most want to buy them?
I saw that game you were talking about the other day, with the Wrecks and the ICS or whatever. Battleship Space edition or whatever. I hadn't realized it was actually the same brand as Battleship, and originally thought it was a nerdier version of the actual Battleship game, with the guessing at coordinates and stuff.
It looked pretty cool, but I just don't want to invest in another 2 player game when I barely get to play the ones I have.
Also was eyeballing a Star Trek themed cooperative game at the FLGS. One of the store guys said it was actually pretty decent, but I'm wary of anything with the Star Trek brand, since they always seem to rely more on the license than any strong design.
Got to play DiceTown and 7 Wonders yesterday. I absolutely enjoyed both.
DiceTown for it's familiarity, and simple, easy-to-play rules. There is strategy involved, but it could all be dashed away by how the dice come up, sort of like in actual Poker. I was 2 VP behind from winning, all because I lost Sheriff in the final round.
7 Wonders was a huge surprise. Layers of complex strategy. I'm thinking this one is must to own. Has anyone played with the Legends expansion?
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jergarmarhollow man crewgoes pew pew pewRegistered Userregular
edited July 2011
Well okay! The big game weekend continues. Friday night: my first time with Citadels, introducing it at a buddy of mine, with his 3 boys (10 - 15). So a 6-person game. HUGE SUCCESS. At first I couldn't tell if the boys liked it or not, but they were hungry for more after the end. I most enjoyed turning all of the boys against their dad (Warlord warlord warlord) when he got an early lead. And then I lost by ONE POINT. Argh!
Saturday night: birthday party, a good group of kids and adults (parents, siblings, etc). At first, NO success getting a good game going. They had the TV on, or worked on a Thomas Kinkaide puzzle (???). And then I'm like, "Well, fine." Pulled out Ticket To Ride: Europe for the 4 kids (aged 5 - 11). Put the 5-year-old on my team -- he placed the trains and "we" explained the game (it was my first time playing also). We ignored the tunnel rule and I told them to keep 2 destinations -- one long one and a short one. What a GREAT time! They immediately grasped the "set" idea, and after a few rounds they were shooting for their destination tickets, and even the 5-year-old understood well enough to say things like, "Oh, we need train cards! Draw train cards!"
Tonight is another Citadels game (it's a gift to them), but I'm hoping to show them some Race for the Galaxy (just picked up the expansion), and we'll probably end up playing at least a bit of Dominion, because we hooked them on that a couple of weeks ago. He also found his old copy of Scotland Yard, which I remember as a kid (like 20-25 years ago, wow).
I can't believe that I didn't know about ANY of these games one month ago! This thread has been invaluable for finding quality forms of entertainment for groups of various size. So thanks! I still like vidja games and all, but MAN there are some great card/board games out there. Now excuse me. Need to go create some virtual worlds in which to slay and be slain.
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Battle.net: TheGerm#1430 (Hearthstone, Destiny 2)
EDIT: Granted, you may want to toss something else in the order with it to push it over for free shipping. Because let's face it, shipping on a copy of TI3's gotta suck if you've seen the size of the box.
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EDIT: Granted, you may want to toss something else in the order with it to push it over for free shipping. Because let's face it, shipping on a copy of TI3's gotta suck if you've seen the size of the box.
The "something else" should be the first expansion of the game. It increases the game's fun factor exponentially. Not sure about the second expansion, but I would assume it to be worth it. Sure does look worth it.
If you don't buy the first expansion to TI3, you HAVE to look up some of the added rules and use them. The victory condition modifications to the game are basically essential.
Small World is less complicated than Risk, but more fun.
Which is why I put it on my list! Sadly, though, you don't get to roll lots of dice for Small World.
Also, 16 hours for TI:3 is a nasty lie (or heavily drunk/very tired players). Are A&A and TI:3 even that similar? (Sadly, I've never actually sat down and played Axis and Allies, so I can't speak to it from personal experience.)
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But I didn't feel that strategic decisions paid off in the long run, and that the dice always seemed to be as influential on your winning chances before and after you've made sound decisions. Although that might just have been some freakish dice rolls in our two games. (No flag symbols and only a handful of archer hits in our first game, and an abundance of both in our second game.)
I've since had a look at the second scenario and it does seem much more interesting and dynamic than the first, so I'm looking forward to giving the game another go next week. I've not quite grasped the strategic depth of BoW, and I sometimes feel like I keep having to wade through a lot of chrome to get to it; but I think there's more tactics and strategy to get out of this game. At least more than just "charge your enemy and hope to roll as many appropriate symbols as possible".
The game is very dice heavy; that's definitely true. With games like that, though, the better player is one who minimizes how much dice rolls can affect his overall strategy.
Battleship Galaxies
D&D Conquest of Nerath
The Resistance
Aye Dark Overlord
I am pumped for ALL of them.
I'm not sure how to actually do that. It seems to me that dice rolls are placed at some very crucial points in a turn structure, so how does one go about minimising their influence?
To be honest, I don't really mind the dice but I would like to try my hand at some more strategic play, getting a feel for it and so on. I look at BoW as my "strategy games training wheels", so any hints and insights into what's possible in the game would be greatly appreciated.
Sadly I am in a bit of a financial crunch this paycheck due to picking up Miskatonic horror (BUY IT IF YOU OWN ARKHAM, but it is more justifiable the more expansions you have), and due to the Steam sale.
Of course, I don't know how Battle of Westeros differs from Battlelore.
Walked in yesterday to pick something up and saw that Avalon Hill did a second edition so I picked it up.
Anyone got any experience playing the game?
Sadly, the latest games fizzled.
If "convincing opponents to kill each other while I fort up in Australia": http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/483/diplomacy
If "killing mans with dice":
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/43111/chaos-in-the-old-world
or either of the two games being discussed in the last couple of pages.
If "wargame strategy":
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/12333/twilight-struggle
The OP also has good advice on this topic.
I checked this morning and saw the official release date listed as 7/8/11, so I went to my FLGS on my lunch break and picked up a copy. Damn this game looks awesome.
Just one note of caution: the game comes with 2 cardboard screens and the stands are already attached on either side of each screen. One of the side stands snagged to some other part of the box, and I nearly ripped it off. Will be easy to repair, but be careful anyways when unpacking the game. :P
History of the World is the game Risk wishes it could grow up to be.
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/224/history-of-the-world
However, it's out of print so it's not going to be cheap. I got my copy for $80. It's totally worth it, though. You'll never go back to Risk.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
According to most reviews, BoW only shares a superficial similarity with Battlelore. And by all accounts it seems to be less dice-heavy than Battlelore, too.
In the meantime I've managed to sneak in another game of BoW. Again with scenario #1, but this time playing the Starks. We've been playing with two rules fundamentally wrong, which made playing the Lannister incredibly difficult.
Rules mistake no.1 - the Lannisters get to replace the Stark tokens on the board with their own should they end their turn there. We just assumed, you'd have to finish turn 5 on the two spaces or lose the game. In hindsight this would have won me the first game, although not the second.
Rules mistake no.2 - if you're standing on a ford, your attacks are NOT penalised; only counter-attacks are. This crucial difference would most likely have made a difference when trying to fight the archers in the woods. I might have actually won both games that way.
And finally, now that I am somewhat familiar with the rules, I am starting to adjust my play. Starting with the fundamental insight that during a single turn you will most likely not get to move every unit, and it's often not necessary to do so either. In fact, it's better to look at the most efficient way to move your troops AND their commander closer to wherever you want them; and that keeping your troops in a huddle of three is a very effective, as it keeps them stalwart. Trying to move as many troops, and engage the enemy as often as possible, always made the rules feel restrictive and the game frustratingly hard to manage. Trying instead to move my troops to a position from which they might be able to either block passage, or at least threaten important spaces is a far more sensible goal. The archers kept Lannister away from the river for 3 turns, simply by camping in the woods. This also makes you somewhat less dependent on the opening dice rolls. Once you accept you will only move some of your troops each turn, the dice rolls are less of a random restriction on your actions and more of a way to simulate the ebb and flow of troop movement.
I think I am slowly getting the hang of this game. I still don't think I am any good - after three games - but I think I'm starting to grasp how I can become better at it. So that's a start at least.
Having finally played PR at a table, I feel confident enough to play online and have thusly joined this game.
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Other games to consider (from BGG's "The Best Alternatives to Risk"):
A Game of Thrones (about to be reprinted by FFG)
Nexus Ops (out of print?)
Axis & Allies (much more complex, though)
Rune Wars (probably too expensive)
Small World (quick and light; Vinci is on that list, but Small World is an updated version of it)
Okay, looking to check prices on those and I see that A Game of Thrones and Nexus Ops are both unavailable at the moment (outside of used copies). But Nexus Ops recently released an iPad version, and the Game of Thrones license is at the height of its popularity from the recent TV show. Why don't the game companies make sure their games are on the shelfs when people would most want to buy them?
I saw that game you were talking about the other day, with the Wrecks and the ICS or whatever. Battleship Space edition or whatever. I hadn't realized it was actually the same brand as Battleship, and originally thought it was a nerdier version of the actual Battleship game, with the guessing at coordinates and stuff.
It looked pretty cool, but I just don't want to invest in another 2 player game when I barely get to play the ones I have.
Also was eyeballing a Star Trek themed cooperative game at the FLGS. One of the store guys said it was actually pretty decent, but I'm wary of anything with the Star Trek brand, since they always seem to rely more on the license than any strong design.
It looks like Darian wins at advice, that Conquest of Nerath looks like what the doctor ordered. Also, I want it now.
I don't think Runewars is a good transition from Risk, even though I love it. You could win Runewars without fighting an enemy player at all.
DiceTown for it's familiarity, and simple, easy-to-play rules. There is strategy involved, but it could all be dashed away by how the dice come up, sort of like in actual Poker. I was 2 VP behind from winning, all because I lost Sheriff in the final round.
7 Wonders was a huge surprise. Layers of complex strategy. I'm thinking this one is must to own. Has anyone played with the Legends expansion?
Steam: TheArcadeBear
Saturday night: birthday party, a good group of kids and adults (parents, siblings, etc). At first, NO success getting a good game going. They had the TV on, or worked on a Thomas Kinkaide puzzle (???). And then I'm like, "Well, fine." Pulled out Ticket To Ride: Europe for the 4 kids (aged 5 - 11). Put the 5-year-old on my team -- he placed the trains and "we" explained the game (it was my first time playing also). We ignored the tunnel rule and I told them to keep 2 destinations -- one long one and a short one. What a GREAT time! They immediately grasped the "set" idea, and after a few rounds they were shooting for their destination tickets, and even the 5-year-old understood well enough to say things like, "Oh, we need train cards! Draw train cards!"
Tonight is another Citadels game (it's a gift to them), but I'm hoping to show them some Race for the Galaxy (just picked up the expansion), and we'll probably end up playing at least a bit of Dominion, because we hooked them on that a couple of weeks ago. He also found his old copy of Scotland Yard, which I remember as a kid (like 20-25 years ago, wow).
I can't believe that I didn't know about ANY of these games one month ago! This thread has been invaluable for finding quality forms of entertainment for groups of various size. So thanks! I still like vidja games and all, but MAN there are some great card/board games out there. Now excuse me. Need to go create some virtual worlds in which to slay and be slain.
My BoardGameGeek profile
Battle.net: TheGerm#1430 (Hearthstone, Destiny 2)
TI3: $58 via CoolStuffInc.
EDIT: Granted, you may want to toss something else in the order with it to push it over for free shipping. Because let's face it, shipping on a copy of TI3's gotta suck if you've seen the size of the box.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
The "something else" should be the first expansion of the game. It increases the game's fun factor exponentially. Not sure about the second expansion, but I would assume it to be worth it. Sure does look worth it.
C'mon guys, I love it as much as you do but it costs 100 bucks and takes 16 hours to play.
Which is why I put it on my list! Sadly, though, you don't get to roll lots of dice for Small World.
Also, 16 hours for TI:3 is a nasty lie (or heavily drunk/very tired players). Are A&A and TI:3 even that similar? (Sadly, I've never actually sat down and played Axis and Allies, so I can't speak to it from personal experience.)