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Looking for a decent personal security weapon

Bloods EndBloods End Registered User regular
edited January 2011 in Help / Advice Forum
Obligatory, "the best security is awareness".

So I manage a hotel across from a strip club, and every thursday they do a live radio broadcast from one of the local stations. Needless to say at times it gets a little rowdy and some people drunkenly stumble into my lot to pee on cars, and make general nuisances of themselves. Sometimes they park in my lot, despite the clearly posted signs saying you will get towed. Most of the time, asking politely for them to leave gets them to leave. Other times, not so much. And its for those times that I feel I need something thats a little more imposing than a stern warning and a call to the police (the problem being that often times the police are slow to get to this part of town).

First off, no guns. Too much potential for things to get out of hand way to quickly and I don't want that on my or my employees heads. Push come to shove, I'd rather have a window broken and have to deal with the situation that would come from a gun. Other than that, I was thinking some form of stun gun, but I have no idea of what I'm dealing with.

At the most I'm looking to spend maybe 700 on it, with some leeway. But other than that, I'm open to suggestions.

Bloods End on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Posts

  • brain operatorbrain operator Registered User
    edited December 2010
    Go with the suggestion from Redbelt: a flashlight. It's said in jest in the movie (the better to look into your opponent's eyes with, if I may paraphrase), but it's actually a pretty good choice for your situation. It's completely street legal, shining bright light in a drunk's face helps getting him to back off and if push comes to shove, you can give someone a solid whack over the head with it. Best part: it's not actually a weapon, so the situation won't escalate just because you have it in your hands. And you'll have a pretty decent one for far less than $700.

  • kedinikkedinik Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    There are some pretty good flashlights more or less built for smacking violent drunk people in the head.

  • FagatronFagatron Registered User
    edited December 2010
    Some of those (large Maglites) may or may not be legal depending on your local laws but it's pretty much a police baton with a really bright light.

    Also mace? Or blast knuckles, those are intimidating as fuck but not actually that useful (IMO) because of how close you have to be to use them.

  • TOGSolidTOGSolid I don my top hat, and adjust my monocle, Like a god damn sir.Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Go with the suggestion from Redbelt: a flashlight. It's said in jest in the movie (the better to look into your opponent's eyes with, if I may paraphrase), but it's actually a pretty good choice for your situation. It's completely street legal, shining bright light in a drunk's face helps getting him to back off and if push comes to shove, you can give someone a solid whack over the head with it. Best part: it's not actually a weapon, so the situation won't escalate just because you have it in your hands. And you'll have a pretty decent one for far less than $700.

    Get one with a strobe option and pack a can of mace as a little extra non-lethal insurance.

    I'm not a big fan of recommending stun guns just because there is always the issue of "what happens if it accidently kills them" (which does happen rarely). That's not a lawsuit you want to have to deal with. Flashlights and mace are a-ok.

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    "Stun guns" are actually harder to buy in some jurisdictions than firearms. I also wouldn't really advocate getting one, because a stun gun has the potential to get you into almost as much legal hot water as a firearm. You won't kill someone (probably, people have been killed by stun guns), but if they sustain injuries as a result of you tasing them or have other medical complications you could be in big trouble. You aren't a police officer to trained or licensed as security personnel; if the situation is bad enough that it warrants those measures, get your employer to hire it out.

    Anyway, I would get a big flashlight and a personal can of mace/pepper spray. There are multiple-use pepper spray canisters that are effective up to 6-8 feet, and they're more than enough to relatively safely ruin an aggressive drunk's evening.

    To echo the first point though, confronting potentially violent people to deter them physically is pretty risky if you're making a regular habit of it, and your employer would probably rather deal with someone's vandalized car than they would deal with you or someone else being seriously injured in the parking lot.

    gkcmatch_zps97480250.jpg
    if the rapture don't come cousin, then pass the guns
    I'll burn'em for the return of my investment funds
  • DekuStickDekuStick Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Pepper spray can come back on you in the wind. Something to keep in mind. That isn't to say having some pepper spray is a bad idea, just know that it can turn on you horribly. I'm going to echo the flashlight suggestion.

  • MyDcmbrMyDcmbr Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Flashlight is the best primary you are probably going to want to deal with. It's dark out after all and you want to be able to see.

    As far as pepper spray goes, get foam not spray. Foam won't blow back on you and most of them carry a dye in them that will mark your attacker making it easier for PD to ID them.

    TASERs are not a bad option either, but a good one is going to set you back more than $700. Plus every time you use it, it's going to cost you another $50 for a new probe pack.

    Steam
    So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.
  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks License Number 137596Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Hey guys, hitting someone in the head with a heavy metal flashlight is a pretty good way to end up in prison with a voluntary manslaughter charge. Stop with the shitty advice.

    Do not ever hit anyone in the head unless you are in mortal danger.

    If you have to use a flashlight as a weapon always go for bodystrikes. If you absolutely have to defend yourself you can swing it into a knee or hip, and that will usually take away your target's mobility, allowing you to distance yourself.

    When you hold the light, hold it in your dominant hand the same way police and the guy in Doom 3 does, arm up, hand around the base of the bulb, thumb facing you, like Officer Lunchbox here:

    400f12971852gov4ydltmoh.jpg

    This way you can shine the light directly into someone's eyes to disorient them, and you can bring it into a swing much faster.

    If you have the proper signage warning people not to park in your lot, than start towing people that park in your lot without your permission. Any local towing company will gladly give you signs in exchange for exclusive business. After people start getting towed, they'll know not to park in your lot.

    If it's an ongoing issue you might want to look into hiring a licensed security guard for Thursday nights. Paying eight extra hours a week in labor is worth the ease of mind in knowing that you have someone with licensure and training monitoring your grounds, and they'll have the skillset and knowledge required to keep them (and you) out of a legal situation.

  • MyDcmbrMyDcmbr Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Hey guys, hitting someone in the head with a heavy metal flashlight is a pretty good way to end up in prison with a voluntary manslaughter charge. Stop with the shitty advice.

    Do not ever hit anyone in the head unless you are in mortal danger.

    If you have to use a flashlight as a weapon always go for bodystrikes. If you absolutely have to defend yourself you can swing it into a knee or hip, and that will usually take away your target's mobility, allowing you to distance yourself.

    When you hold the light, hold it in your dominant hand the same way police and the guy in Doom 3 does, arm up, hand around the base of the bulb, thumb facing you, like Officer Lunchbox here:

    400f12971852gov4ydltmoh.jpg

    This way you can shine the light directly into someone's eyes to disorient them, and you can bring it into a swing much faster.

    If you have the proper signage warning people not to park in your lot, than start towing people that park in your lot without your permission. Any local towing company will gladly give you signs in exchange for exclusive business. After people start getting towed, they'll know not to park in your lot.

    If it's an ongoing issue you might want to look into hiring a licensed security guard for Thursday nights. Paying eight extra hours a week in labor is worth the ease of mind in knowing that you have someone with licensure and training monitoring your grounds, and they'll have the skillset and knowledge required to keep them (and you) out of a legal situation.


    Yeah all that.

    Also about hiring a guard. Laws very state to state, I know in FL you would have to hire an agency since guards cannot do independent work without a PI license. Just make sure that if you do have to go thru an agency, when you sign that contract make sure that you have the right to dismiss any guard you deem incapable of doing the job for any reason. Otherwise you may end up with an 80 year old retiree, a 400lbs guy who can barely walk, or a 5'1 95lbs. girl.

    Steam
    So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.
  • RuckusRuckus Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    According to my Dad, Winnipeg Police Sargent Ruckus Senior, Ret., Judo training is the best tool he had when dealing with Drunks and Disorderlies during his 30+ years on the job.

    Raneados wrote: »
    so what SPECIFICALLY is the problem with my hole?
  • KakodaimonosKakodaimonos Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Bloods End wrote: »
    Obligatory, "the best security is awareness".

    So I manage a hotel across from a strip club, and every thursday they do a live radio broadcast from one of the local stations. Needless to say at times it gets a little rowdy and some people drunkenly stumble into my lot to pee on cars, and make general nuisances of themselves. Sometimes they park in my lot, despite the clearly posted signs saying you will get towed. Most of the time, asking politely for them to leave gets them to leave. Other times, not so much. And its for those times that I feel I need something thats a little more imposing than a stern warning and a call to the police (the problem being that often times the police are slow to get to this part of town).

    First off, no guns. Too much potential for things to get out of hand way to quickly and I don't want that on my or my employees heads. Push come to shove, I'd rather have a window broken and have to deal with the situation that would come from a gun. Other than that, I was thinking some form of stun gun, but I have no idea of what I'm dealing with.

    At the most I'm looking to spend maybe 700 on it, with some leeway. But other than that, I'm open to suggestions.

    This is an independently owned hotel? Have you discussed this with the owner? If you're arming your staff and they're not licensed, bonded and trained, you can get into a metric assload of trouble when some dumbass that you tazed or pepper sprayed decides to hire himself a crappy lawyer and sue you, the employee and the hotel.

    I would recommend you don't do anything like this until you get written approval from the owner or senior management of the hotel.

  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
  • L Ron HowardL Ron Howard Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Do you often get into physical confrontations with drunks that you feel the need to have to defend yourself?
    Are you just looking for a weapon for the intimidation factor so they know you mean business and they should move along quietly and quickly?
    Ultimately, what is your goal and why do you need a weapon to accomplish it?

    steam_sig.png
    NNID - bejamus | ESO - (at)guinneapig
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    A weapon as intimidation factor is just stupid. It's just as likely to escalate an argument into a violent confrontation as it is to help. A flashlight is a good idea, not because you're going to hit anyone with it, but because it establishes you as having authority over the situation and the premises. Shining it at people as they fuck around might help them remember that there are things like security cameras and cops, causing them to get off your property. A dude peeing on something is going to be a lot more self conscious when he's got a light on his junk.

    Also, yes, just start towing people. You'll quickly get a reputation across the street as a-holes that tow, which will help because they'll stop fucking parking there. When they do park on your property, tow truck = voila, no more car in the way.

    "Well, look at this. Appears we got here just in the nick of time. What's that make us?"
    "Big Damn Heroes, Sir."
    "Ain't we just."
  • NerdtendoNerdtendo Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    A telescoping spring baton can be extremely effective, and it's very unlikely to cause serious harm to someone. It's supposed to hurt like a mother fucker if you're hit by one, and it might leave bruises or welts. They're also quite cheap, at around fifteen to twenty bucks. Could get a nicer one for more, of course.

    http://images.bidorbuy.co.za/user_images/953/432953_090101135839_Expandable_Spring_Baton.jpg

    Just whack them a couple times on the arms or thighs. I bet they could probably break bones in hands if you hit there, so I'd try to avoid that.

    The flashlight is always a good option as well, but the fact that it's got a much broader surface area means it won't sting as much if hitting a fleshier part of the body. Still, the light can be very effective for self defense, and the baton can be a backup option if things get serious.

    IHZR47b.png
  • kedinikkedinik Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Hey guys, hitting someone in the head with a heavy metal flashlight is a pretty good way to end up in prison with a voluntary manslaughter charge. Stop with the shitty advice.

    Do not ever hit anyone in the head unless you are in mortal danger.

    Thanks for confrontationally stating the obvious.

  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks License Number 137596Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    It wasn't terribly obvious to the people in this thread that were advocating hitting drunk people in the head with a flashlight.

    Just because this is an advice forum doesn't mean you can give someone terrible advice.

  • RuckusRuckus Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    It also occurs to me that the OP hasn't mentioned the jurisdiction in which this scenario occurs. Without that info, we really shouldn't be making suggestions that include weapons (including, but not limited to: Stunguns, knives, firearms, Billyclubs or other striking implements).

    Raneados wrote: »
    so what SPECIFICALLY is the problem with my hole?
  • Dr. FrenchensteinDr. Frenchenstein Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Nerdtendo wrote: »
    A telescoping spring baton can be extremely effective, and it's very unlikely to cause serious harm to someone. It's supposed to hurt like a mother fucker if you're hit by one, and it might leave bruises or welts. They're also quite cheap, at around fifteen to twenty bucks. Could get a nicer one for more, of course.

    http://images.bidorbuy.co.za/user_images/953/432953_090101135839_Expandable_Spring_Baton.jpg

    Just whack them a couple times on the arms or thighs. I bet they could probably break bones in hands if you hit there, so I'd try to avoid that.

    The flashlight is always a good option as well, but the fact that it's got a much broader surface area means it won't sting as much if hitting a fleshier part of the body. Still, the light can be very effective for self defense, and the baton can be a backup option if things get serious.

    Those are considered concealed weapons and are illegal in lots of places

  • WildEEPWildEEP Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I'm a bit confused by the OP because (s)he's stating a desire for personal protection, but in the description, it sounds more like you're patrolling a parking lot and getting on people for parking violations.

    If you're looking for a weapon to bully someone into doing what you say....don't get one. Its going to get you in trouble because eventually you're going to find the drunk or just the macho asshole who wants to call your bluff.

    Contract with a security company to hire a guard and contract with a towing company to start towing cars. Use them. Tow the first 20 violators and people will start to get the message.

    If you want to keep a weapon because you don't feel safe walking to your own car when you go home for the night..thats an entirely different matter.

  • NaloutoNalouto Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    WildEEP wrote: »
    If you're looking for a weapon to bully someone into doing what you say....don't get one.

    If you want to keep a weapon because you don't feel safe walking to your own car when you go home for the night..thats an entirely different matter
    .

    look - sense!

    it's not your job to tow the cars, is it?

    call the tow truck, let them deal with the disorderly.

    or... how about call the police to do it?

    :winky:
    louzorz.jpg
  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Dude, just call a towing company on them. People figure out that shit real quick.

  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I'm going to go with a personal defense flashlight that shines at around 1000 lumen or more. Go to a store and check them out. They're not for bopping people on the head but if someone comes at you and you blind them you should be able to get away as well as call the cops.

    Let the tow company tow cars, let the cops arrest people who get in fights, you just need to verify what's going on from a safe distance.

  • MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Nerdtendo wrote: »
    A telescoping spring baton can be extremely effective, and it's very unlikely to cause serious harm to someone. It's supposed to hurt like a mother fucker if you're hit by one, and it might leave bruises or welts. They're also quite cheap, at around fifteen to twenty bucks. Could get a nicer one for more, of course.

    http://images.bidorbuy.co.za/user_images/953/432953_090101135839_Expandable_Spring_Baton.jpg

    Just whack them a couple times on the arms or thighs. I bet they could probably break bones in hands if you hit there, so I'd try to avoid that.

    The flashlight is always a good option as well, but the fact that it's got a much broader surface area means it won't sting as much if hitting a fleshier part of the body. Still, the light can be very effective for self defense, and the baton can be a backup option if things get serious.

    Those are considered concealed weapons and are illegal in lots of places

    Yeah, some drunk dumbass on Campus Cops nearly shit himself when the cop told him it was a felony. ASPs are not good ideas for unlicensed people.

    Get a MagLite in the 3C/2D Cell range if you need to get anything, then put a towing company on your speed dial.

    Excision wrote: »
    My girlfriend is going down tonight!

    Steam:MichaelLC
  • TL DRTL DR Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Agreeing with flashlight + mace. Is this for yourself, or are you considering employees? Do not arm a hotel employee in any way unless you've covered insurance and specialized security training of some kind. Just the flashlight along with instructions to call for help if there is a situation is about as far as you can reasonably go.

    If someone refuses to leave, call the police rather than instigating a confrontation. Security cameras are your friend. If you're attacked, do what you need to do to keep yourself safe (including head-bopping).

    eokNV.jpg
  • McAllenMcAllen Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I'm just brain farting an idea, but maybe a video camera would work too so that you have the best evidence available when you need it.

  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks License Number 137596Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    A security camera setup would be great, but there are a few of things you have to consider:

    - The average outdoor security cameras produce video that looks something like this

    68043571.jpg

    and are beyond worthless. You will never identify anyone at that resolution. They are useful only as a visual deterrent.

    - Security systems are a specialized product, meaning manufacturers and installers will charge you $Texas

    - If you have someone on your staff who is technically inclined, it'll be a lot cheaper for you to build and install the system yourself. The hardest part is finding a good outdoor camera (or cameras, depending on your layout) without breaking the bank.

    - If anything horrible ever happens and you or one of your staff ends up in court, surveillance footage is basically your best ally.

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