a show where often the supporting characters were way more interesting than the lead.
Speaking of the Sarah Connor Chronicles...I guess it kind of had multiple characters, but Sarah Connor was in my opinion the least interesting character out of the main four.
The show really should have had a different name, if only for the fact that it meant they wouldn't have to be shackled to one specific character (the exception being John, since he's kind of the only one that has to survive for the show to carry on).
RedTide on
RedTide#1907 on Battle.net
Come Overwatch with meeeee
That one is actually coming back with new eps. Sans Ferrell though, so who knows how good it will do.
And as a Whedon fan, Dollhouse sucked and happened solely because he wanted to work with Dushku and he had the thread of an idea for the show.
And with FX promoting the upcoming Justified Seaon 2, I once again bemoan the loss of Terriers. Such a great show that would have gone perfectly with Justified.
I need some more sustenance go with my Californication while True Blood, Entourage, Boardwalk and Dexter are off season.
Speaking of Californication, is there a thread for that yet? My search button seems to be doing nothing for me at the moment.
P.S.S. Has anyone seen Episodes or Shameless, and are they worth while?
man people miss dollhouse? I like whedon a lot, and I gave dollhouse every chance, and it just never came through for me. islands of brilliance drowned in oceans of mediocrity. terminator: the sarah connor chronicles was a LOT more consistent.
dollhouse just didnt play to whedon's strengths. eliza dushku couldn't really hold up echo, which was a very difficult role. and the show took way too long to take off and make her actually a person who could develop and who we could be interested in. thats a show where often the supporting characters were way more interesting than the lead.
Yeah some of the supporting actors were absolutely fantastic, but Dushku was way out of her depth trying to manage Echo/Caroline.
Whoah whoah... what? There are people that don't like Farscape? My wife saw the first 3 seasons on Netflix Instant and insisted we buy the box set and plow through the rest.
There are bizarre things in the show, but it isn't a bizarre show. The entire series ends up being character studies. That's why I like it, less meta-plot-drama and more deep characterization.
Isn't it the same reason we all watched Cowboy Bebop?
Throw me on the Farscape is awesome pile. I can't fathom loving the first season and hating the rest. Season one has the most stuff that stands out as 'wacky' for me, after that it's just a genuinely weird universe filled with well crafted characters.
I attempted, several times, to watch Farscape. I just don't get it, or I am missing something completely but the show came off as childish and cheesy. And really, I can like bad shows or ridiculous shows, I have probably seen every episode of Highlander five or six times, but Farscape just came off as boring and ridiculous to me.
Also, I loved Cowboy Bebop, I don't really understand the comparison between the two.
I tried to watch Dollhouse on Netflix, but I only made it 10 minutes or so into the first episode. To me, it just seems like Dushku can't act. Is there an episode besides the first that I should try out? For example, the first episode of Buffy I saw was "Hush", which convinced me to watch the series.
I tried to watch Dollhouse on Netflix, but I only made it 10 minutes or so into the first episode. To me, it just seems like Dushku can't act. Is there an episode besides the first that I should try out? For example, the first episode of Buffy I saw was "Hush", which convinced me to watch the series.
The one I remember from season 1 is "Man on the Street," but it's been a long time since I've seen it and I'm not sure it makes any sense without the preceding episodes.
Dollhouse had some good episodes, and it was a great premise but it just didn't "click". I don't think Dushku had the acting chops and I think Whedon was doing it just to pass the time.
I tried to watch Dollhouse on Netflix, but I only made it 10 minutes or so into the first episode. To me, it just seems like Dushku can't act. Is there an episode besides the first that I should try out? For example, the first episode of Buffy I saw was "Hush", which convinced me to watch the series.
The one I remember from season 1 is "Man on the Street," but it's been a long time since I've seen it and I'm not sure it makes any sense without the preceding episodes.
Yeah, Man on the Street is episode 6 from that first season, and was the episode where things finally started to pick up. It was also the first episode where Whedon's sense of humor actually showed up for the first time. But, a lot of shit happens in that episode that's been building from the b-plots of the previous five episodes.
You'd probably be fine starting with that one, but if you can sit through the previous five episodes, the experience will be a little more enjoyable, since you'll understand the characters better and be a little more engaged with them.
I'm just watching season 2 of Dollhouse for the first time, and it shows that the series would have had great potential. Dushku is still the weakest link IMO, but she works a lot better as the semi-aware Echo than as the Doll of the Week she was throughout most of S1.
In some ways it feels like S1 was trying to cater too much for the mainstream audience - most episodes were standalone and focused on ogling Dushku, but it made the series feel like an early '90s relic with TV-level action sequences and generic plots. The episodes that actually furthered the overarching plot were much stronger.
Thirith on
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
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MalReynoldsThe Hunter S Thompson of incredibly mild medicinesRegistered Userregular
Season 3's when it went bad. People should avoid Season 3.
Season 3 wasn't that bad. Just gotta be in it for the absurdity of it all. And the boobs.
I thought about making a thread for it, but there is not much to discuss. It's one of those enjoy the ride type of shows, imo.
The only problem I had with Season 3 was that it kind of went off the deep end. I could deal with Hank and all that shit, but the Charlie Runkle plots kind of lost me a little bit.
MalReynolds on
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"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
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mrt144King of the NumbernamesRegistered Userregular
I'm just watching season 2 of Dollhouse for the first time, and it shows that the series would have had great potential. Dushku is still the weakest link IMO, but she works a lot better as the semi-aware Echo than as the Doll of the Week she was throughout most of S1.
In some ways it feels like S1 was trying to cater too much for the mainstream audience - most episodes were standalone and focused on ogling Dushku, but it made the series feel like an early '90s relic with TV-level action sequences and generic plots. The episodes that actually furthered the overarching plot were much stronger.
The thing that bugs me though is that the doll of the week could have sustained the show for at least 2 seasons if it was done really really well. Hell, an entire spinoff dedicated to victor being topher would have worked for me.
I need some more sustenance go with my Californication while True Blood, Entourage, Boardwalk and Dexter are off season.
Speaking of Californication, is there a thread for that yet? My search button seems to be doing nothing for me at the moment.
P.S.S. Has anyone seen Episodes or Shameless, and are they worth while?
Dollhouse ended way too early. Poor Joss just can't catch a break from Fux.
Fuck that.
Yes, he got screwed with Firefly, but Fox actually gave Dollhouse a chance, and even when it was apparent that it was loosing audience, they still committed to showing all the eps. Dollhouse was just not a good show. It had it's moments, and season two is considerably better(partly because they crammed a bunch of season story's into 12 eps) but I'm really not clamoring for more.
I need some more sustenance go with my Californication while True Blood, Entourage, Boardwalk and Dexter are off season.
Speaking of Californication, is there a thread for that yet? My search button seems to be doing nothing for me at the moment.
P.S.S. Has anyone seen Episodes or Shameless, and are they worth while?
Dollhouse ended way too early. Poor Joss just can't catch a break from Fux.
Let's be fair. Fox gave Dollhouse much more of a chance than it deserved. The show was just doomed from the start. I still enjoy it, but it's easily the weakest of Whedon's portfolio.
Dollhouse really didn't have the internal consistency of it's universe strong enough to sustain it, and the doll of the week idea wasn't strong enough either.
With what they had, they really needed to play up the corporate conspiracy aspect, but with more of an eye to making the tech "feel" plausible. It got a little too magical too quickly.
I need some more sustenance go with my Californication while True Blood, Entourage, Boardwalk and Dexter are off season.
Speaking of Californication, is there a thread for that yet? My search button seems to be doing nothing for me at the moment.
P.S.S. Has anyone seen Episodes or Shameless, and are they worth while?
Dollhouse ended way too early. Poor Joss just can't catch a break from Fux.
Fuck that.
Yes, he got screwed with Firefly, but Fox actually gave Dollhouse a chance, and even when it was apparent that it was loosing audience, they still committed to showing all the eps. Dollhouse was just not a good show. It had it's moments, and season two is considerably better(partly because they crammed a bunch of season story's into 12 eps) but I'm really not clamoring for more.
In terms of story arch it did end way too early. I'm not saying that Fox should have taken a bath for 5 years for the sake of it, but the whole finale was just a rushed mess.
I loved Firefly so much and hate FOX News so much that if I met Rupert Murdoch I'm not sure if I would slap him in the face for FOX News or spit in his mouth for Firefly.
yes, I am aware that he personally doesn't have anything to do with either but...
IT WAS ORIGINALLY PLANNED TO LAST SEVEN SEASONS
SEVEN
SEASONS
OF FIREFLY
I don't fucking care if they would have ran it to the ground, it's always better then an abrupt cancellation. You think it wouldn't be, you want to say that it isn't, but we all know that it is. Because in the end we all want a fucking conclusion, no matter how bad. Instead of this "what could have been" disgusting limbo we get with cancelled shows.
I loved Firefly so much and hate FOX News so much that if I met Rupert Murdoch I'm not sure if I would slap him in the face for FOX News or spit in his mouth for Firefly.
yes, I am aware that he personally doesn't have anything to do with either but...
IT WAS ORIGINALLY PLANNED TO LAST SEVEN SEASONS
SEVEN
SEASONS
OF FIREFLY
I don't fucking care if they would have ran it to the ground, it's always better then an abrupt cancellation. You think it wouldn't be, you want to say that it isn't, but we all know that it is. Because in the end we all want a fucking conclusion, no matter how bad. Instead of this "what could have been" disgusting limbo we get with cancelled shows.
I'm sorry, it's just true.
EDIT: and this is a magnificent TOTP
What really stings about that is seeing how much better Firefly is than Serenity.
Season 3's when it went bad. People should avoid Season 3.
Season 3 wasn't that bad. Just gotta be in it for the absurdity of it all. And the boobs.
I thought about making a thread for it, but there is not much to discuss. It's one of those enjoy the ride type of shows, imo.
Dude, cmon. Any part of Season 3 with Kathleen Turner was mindbogglingly godawful. Just unwatchable.
What? I didn't know the name Kathleen Turner, but after a google search I know who you are talking about. She was part of Runkel's slow decent into hollywood hell and it provided great laughs. She is the gatekeeper of all things "Oh My God, NOOOOOO!!".
Apparently we DO have some discussion potentially worth a thread.
I loved Firefly so much and hate FOX News so much that if I met Rupert Murdoch I'm not sure if I would slap him in the face for FOX News or spit in his mouth for Firefly.
yes, I am aware that he personally doesn't have anything to do with either but...
IT WAS ORIGINALLY PLANNED TO LAST SEVEN SEASONS
SEVEN
SEASONS
OF FIREFLY
I don't fucking care if they would have ran it to the ground, it's always better then an abrupt cancellation. You think it wouldn't be, you want to say that it isn't, but we all know that it is. Because in the end we all want a fucking conclusion, no matter how bad. Instead of this "what could have been" disgusting limbo we get with cancelled shows.
I'm sorry, it's just true.
EDIT: and this is a magnificent TOTP
What really stings about that is seeing how much better Firefly is than Serenity.
What bothers me the most about Firefly being cancelled so early on is that I feel like we never really got to meet the characters. If you look at Whedon's other stuff, he's big on having characters grow and change over the course of a series. Cordelia, Willow, and Welsey from Buffy/Angel are all major examples of this, and there was plenty of it on Dollhouse too.
I have to think that he had the same sort of thing in mind for the Firefly characters. Maybe Jayne would've eventually redeemed himself, or gone the other way and betrayed the crew. Maybe Simon would have turned into a badass. Maybe River would have recovered her mind. But we don't get to see any of that. We have the start of their character arcs and nothing more.
The real heartbreaker is that Firefly would have stood head and shoulders above any of Whedon's other work. Even in its truncated state I think it's superior.
Wait, when and where is Oblongs coming back? I loved that show. Especially because Ferrell's involvement was never promoted or seemed important. So I don't mind if he's missing.
Dollhouse really didn't have the internal consistency of it's universe strong enough to sustain it, and the doll of the week idea wasn't strong enough either.
With what they had, they really needed to play up the corporate conspiracy aspect, but with more of an eye to making the tech "feel" plausible. It got a little too magical too quickly.
Yeah, but that's mostly from the compression of the series. Shit that should have developed over entire seasons did so over a few episodes.
They needed to be on a network that let them do more (ie - cable) and have a better lead actor. You know, like Enver Gjokaj (ie - Victor), who was 10x the actor Dushku was. Though, to be fair, he's 10x the actor most actors are.
It also didn't help that it took awhile for the writers to really figure out what they wanted to do with the show.
I have to think that he had the same sort of thing in mind for the Firefly characters. Maybe Jayne would've eventually redeemed himself, or gone the other way and betrayed the crew. Maybe Simon would have turned into a badass. Maybe River would have recovered her mind. But we don't get to see any of that. We have the start of their character arcs and nothing more.
I could just see Jayne becoming a reoccurring big bad. Sort of a reverse-Spike.
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KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
Californication- Season 3 chat
Yeah I'd agree that Season 3 is the weakest of the seasons, but it also has the best season finale of any of them. It's like they pulled out all the stops as if it was the last season they were going to make, which is brilliant and why they should do that with every episode. Season 4 is actually really good so far too.
Dollhouse Chat
Personally I liked Season 1, Season 2 obviously the better one, but I thought that the in and out episodes of Echo really made every episode that much more interesting cause she could be pretty much anything. However, whatshisface totally stole the show when he showed up as Alpha.
The real heartbreaker is that Firefly would have stood head and shoulders above any of Whedon's other work. Even in its truncated state I think it's superior.
:^: though I'm watching buffy for the first time now and loving it. and i still have angel to tackle. that said, buffy is getting kinda long (midway through season 4) its not getting any worse but I'm a bit over it (probably because a bunch has been spoiled--and even though its a show that is more about execution than plot--I still kinda feel like I get the point). I'd go 1:1 trading seasons of firefly for buffy and not look back.
Whoah whoah... what? There are people that don't like Farscape? My wife saw the first 3 seasons on Netflix Instant and insisted we buy the box set and plow through the rest.
There are bizarre things in the show, but it isn't a bizarre show. The entire series ends up being character studies. That's why I like it, less meta-plot-drama and more deep characterization.
Isn't it the same reason we all watched Cowboy Bebop?
Throw me on the Farscape is awesome pile. I can't fathom loving the first season and hating the rest. Season one has the most stuff that stands out as 'wacky' for me, after that it's just a genuinely weird universe filled with well crafted characters.
I attempted, several times, to watch Farscape. I just don't get it, or I am missing something completely but the show came off as childish and cheesy. And really, I can like bad shows or ridiculous shows, I have probably seen every episode of Highlander five or six times, but Farscape just came off as boring and ridiculous to me.
Also, I loved Cowboy Bebop, I don't really understand the comparison between the two.
See this just clinches it, you're from some kind of evil backwards universe where everybody has a goatee aren't you?
I think sometimes we take for granted the fact that shows shouldn't go on ad nauseum until the writers all die or everyone loses interest. I think plenty of shows were canceled prematurely (though I don't revere Firefly to the extent many do, I do think one season wasn't nearly enough). Dollhouse, however, is great at just two seasons. Given the time to wrap things up, I think many shows are given a humane death by getting canceled with a conclusion.
Dollhouse got really good towards the end, even after a weak beginning of the first season. I recently watched the whole series and found myself not very upset that it was over. It was a nice, bookended story, that even though had some gaping holes, wouldn't have taken really any longer to tell than 2 seasons. As some have already said, the doll of the week thing was already old and the espionage aspect of the show couldn't really have progressed beyond who to make the next big villain.
I think sometimes we're gluttonous as a television audience. We take shows that would be brilliant as a 3-4 season journey, and extend them into 5 or 6 seasons by the end of which we're sick, full and vengeful towards the narrative.
And Better Off Ted, what? It started with a neat premise, then spent 2 seasons going nowhere. By the end of the 2nd season they were just repeating standard sitcom plots, like they'd already run out if ideas. And half the characters seemed like they didn't realize they were in a comedy.
Different writers on a different network could have done the show justice, but it wasn't doing anything interesting enough to stave off cancellation when it came.
I think sometimes we take for granted the fact that shows shouldn't go on ad nauseum until the writers all die or everyone loses interest. I think plenty of shows were canceled prematurely (though I don't revere Firefly to the extent many do, I do think one season wasn't nearly enough). Dollhouse, however, is great at just two seasons. Given the time to wrap things up, I think many shows are given a humane death by getting canceled with a conclusion.
Dollhouse got really good towards the end, even after a weak beginning of the first season. I recently watched the whole series and found myself not very upset that it was over. It was a nice, bookended story, that even though had some gaping holes, wouldn't have taken really any longer to tell than 2 seasons. As some have already said, the doll of the week thing was already old and the espionage aspect of the show couldn't really have progressed beyond who to make the next big villain.
I think sometimes we're gluttonous as a television audience. We take shows that would be brilliant as a 3-4 season journey, and extend them into 5 or 6 seasons by the end of which we're sick, full and vengeful towards the narrative.
I think that Arrested Development lasted just long enough. And the ending is perfect. If it has gone on another season or two, it couldn't have kept up that level of quality, and probably would have been run into the ground.
Considering the ratings that show got, 3 seasons is incredibly generous.
I think a great example of this difference, though apples and oranges in a lot of ways, is the brevity of the UK Office versus the long-term success of its US counterpart.
I think the US Office needs desperately to be put out of its misery, as it has long overstayed its welcome. The UK Office, condensed into 2 seasons, is absolutely masterful. Condensed into 2-3 season, the US version of the Office would probably have ended without any tarnish on its reputation.
If I'm going to stay on topic though, I'd say that Pushing Daisies was canceled before it needed to be. The last three episodes of that show, wrapping up every loose end, was too quick and ineffectual. Another season and that show could've had such a splendid ending.
stevemarks44 on
0
mrt144King of the NumbernamesRegistered Userregular
I think a great example of this difference, though apples and oranges in a lot of ways, is the brevity of the UK Office versus the long-term success of its US counterpart.
I think the US Office needs desperately to be put out of its misery, as it has long overstayed its welcome. The UK Office, condensed into 2 seasons, is absolutely masterful. Condensed into 2-3 season, the US version of the Office would probably have ended without any tarnish on its reputation.
If I'm going to stay on topic though, I'd say that Pushing Daisies was canceled before it needed to be. The last three episodes of that show, wrapping up every loose end, was too quick and ineffectual. Another season and that show could've had such a splendid ending.
I still find tons of stuff to laugh at in the American Office despite diminished quality over time. The UK Office deprived me of potential laughs by being so short.
I think sometimes we take for granted the fact that shows shouldn't go on ad nauseum until the writers all die or everyone loses interest. I think plenty of shows were canceled prematurely (though I don't revere Firefly to the extent many do, I do think one season wasn't nearly enough). Dollhouse, however, is great at just two seasons. Given the time to wrap things up, I think many shows are given a humane death by getting canceled with a conclusion.
Dollhouse got really good towards the end, even after a weak beginning of the first season. I recently watched the whole series and found myself not very upset that it was over. It was a nice, bookended story, that even though had some gaping holes, wouldn't have taken really any longer to tell than 2 seasons. As some have already said, the doll of the week thing was already old and the espionage aspect of the show couldn't really have progressed beyond who to make the next big villain.
I think sometimes we're gluttonous as a television audience. We take shows that would be brilliant as a 3-4 season journey, and extend them into 5 or 6 seasons by the end of which we're sick, full and vengeful towards the narrative.
I think that Arrested Development lasted just long enough. And the ending is perfect. If it has gone on another season or two, it couldn't have kept up that level of quality, and probably would have been run into the ground.
Considering the ratings that show got, 3 seasons is incredibly generous.
I disagree
I want the people working on it doing it for as long as possible. as long as they are into it.
I'd rather get to that day and go beyond and have some bad episodes then not get everything you could get.
about any show but obviously I'm a fan of arrested development
That would only work if the people working on a show were as free to stop making it as the studio's execs were to cancel it. If it was feasible for creative types to just end a popular (or even mildly successful) show whenever they wanted to work on something else, how many would? How many would plan finite runs if they knew that someone wouldn't be breathing down their neck for more product whenever the ratings hit critical mass?
I have the sneaking suspicion that more than one writer or director has taken the Channel 101 way out, and just shit all over their show so they could finally be free of it.
I have the sneaking suspicion that more than one writer or director has taken the Channel 101 way out, and just shit all over their show so they could finally be free of it.
I think that is highly unlikely. Once a show hits critical mass, there are too many wheels in motion and too many people employed for any writer to "tank" a show.
If someone is unhappy, they are always able to leave. As shows progress, writing staff, showrunners and every other position changes pretty consistently.
As for my feelings on shows continuing past their prime, I think it applies more heavily towards narrative driven shows than sitcoms or otherwise. Arrested Development probably would've been funny for years. But a show like Lost, that is ultimately driven by narrative, was definitely hurt due to stretching plot points and retreading old ground. That is ultimately when it is a shame that a show isn't ended. When it hurts the overall product.
If there is one consolation to Firefly being canceled early, it's that it never had a chance to get old and boring.
That is, admittedly, the barest thread of a silver lining, but it's the only cold comfort one has.
It's equal to "Sorry that your kid was killed by that serial murderer. But at least she never had the chance to become a crack whore, or something, man."
What really stings about that is seeing how much better Firefly is than Serenity.
Don't even get me started, Serenity killed (waagh) some of the things I liked best about Firefly. I thought the ending to episode 14 was actually a much better conclusion, in the end, for various reasons.
Posts
The show really should have had a different name, if only for the fact that it meant they wouldn't have to be shackled to one specific character (the exception being John, since he's kind of the only one that has to survive for the show to carry on).
Come Overwatch with meeeee
That one is actually coming back with new eps. Sans Ferrell though, so who knows how good it will do.
And as a Whedon fan, Dollhouse sucked and happened solely because he wanted to work with Dushku and he had the thread of an idea for the show.
And with FX promoting the upcoming Justified Seaon 2, I once again bemoan the loss of Terriers. Such a great show that would have gone perfectly with Justified.
Ass-butt.
Yeah some of the supporting actors were absolutely fantastic, but Dushku was way out of her depth trying to manage Echo/Caroline.
I attempted, several times, to watch Farscape. I just don't get it, or I am missing something completely but the show came off as childish and cheesy. And really, I can like bad shows or ridiculous shows, I have probably seen every episode of Highlander five or six times, but Farscape just came off as boring and ridiculous to me.
Also, I loved Cowboy Bebop, I don't really understand the comparison between the two.
Season 3 wasn't that bad. Just gotta be in it for the absurdity of it all. And the boobs.
I thought about making a thread for it, but there is not much to discuss. It's one of those enjoy the ride type of shows, imo.
The one I remember from season 1 is "Man on the Street," but it's been a long time since I've seen it and I'm not sure it makes any sense without the preceding episodes.
Yeah, Man on the Street is episode 6 from that first season, and was the episode where things finally started to pick up. It was also the first episode where Whedon's sense of humor actually showed up for the first time. But, a lot of shit happens in that episode that's been building from the b-plots of the previous five episodes.
You'd probably be fine starting with that one, but if you can sit through the previous five episodes, the experience will be a little more enjoyable, since you'll understand the characters better and be a little more engaged with them.
In some ways it feels like S1 was trying to cater too much for the mainstream audience - most episodes were standalone and focused on ogling Dushku, but it made the series feel like an early '90s relic with TV-level action sequences and generic plots. The episodes that actually furthered the overarching plot were much stronger.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
The only problem I had with Season 3 was that it kind of went off the deep end. I could deal with Hank and all that shit, but the Charlie Runkle plots kind of lost me a little bit.
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor
My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
Dollhouse ended way too early. Poor Joss just can't catch a break from Fux.
The thing that bugs me though is that the doll of the week could have sustained the show for at least 2 seasons if it was done really really well. Hell, an entire spinoff dedicated to victor being topher would have worked for me.
Fuck that.
Yes, he got screwed with Firefly, but Fox actually gave Dollhouse a chance, and even when it was apparent that it was loosing audience, they still committed to showing all the eps. Dollhouse was just not a good show. It had it's moments, and season two is considerably better(partly because they crammed a bunch of season story's into 12 eps) but I'm really not clamoring for more.
Let's be fair. Fox gave Dollhouse much more of a chance than it deserved. The show was just doomed from the start. I still enjoy it, but it's easily the weakest of Whedon's portfolio.
With what they had, they really needed to play up the corporate conspiracy aspect, but with more of an eye to making the tech "feel" plausible. It got a little too magical too quickly.
Dude, cmon. Any part of Season 3 with Kathleen Turner was mindbogglingly godawful. Just unwatchable.
In terms of story arch it did end way too early. I'm not saying that Fox should have taken a bath for 5 years for the sake of it, but the whole finale was just a rushed mess.
yes, I am aware that he personally doesn't have anything to do with either but...
IT WAS ORIGINALLY PLANNED TO LAST SEVEN SEASONS
SEVEN
SEASONS
OF FIREFLY
I don't fucking care if they would have ran it to the ground, it's always better then an abrupt cancellation. You think it wouldn't be, you want to say that it isn't, but we all know that it is. Because in the end we all want a fucking conclusion, no matter how bad. Instead of this "what could have been" disgusting limbo we get with cancelled shows.
I'm sorry, it's just true.
EDIT: and this is a magnificent TOTP
What really stings about that is seeing how much better Firefly is than Serenity.
What? I didn't know the name Kathleen Turner, but after a google search I know who you are talking about. She was part of Runkel's slow decent into hollywood hell and it provided great laughs. She is the gatekeeper of all things "Oh My God, NOOOOOO!!".
Apparently we DO have some discussion potentially worth a thread.
What bothers me the most about Firefly being cancelled so early on is that I feel like we never really got to meet the characters. If you look at Whedon's other stuff, he's big on having characters grow and change over the course of a series. Cordelia, Willow, and Welsey from Buffy/Angel are all major examples of this, and there was plenty of it on Dollhouse too.
I have to think that he had the same sort of thing in mind for the Firefly characters. Maybe Jayne would've eventually redeemed himself, or gone the other way and betrayed the crew. Maybe Simon would have turned into a badass. Maybe River would have recovered her mind. But we don't get to see any of that. We have the start of their character arcs and nothing more.
Yeah, but that's mostly from the compression of the series. Shit that should have developed over entire seasons did so over a few episodes.
They needed to be on a network that let them do more (ie - cable) and have a better lead actor. You know, like Enver Gjokaj (ie - Victor), who was 10x the actor Dushku was. Though, to be fair, he's 10x the actor most actors are.
It also didn't help that it took awhile for the writers to really figure out what they wanted to do with the show.
I could just see Jayne becoming a reoccurring big bad. Sort of a reverse-Spike.
Yeah I'd agree that Season 3 is the weakest of the seasons, but it also has the best season finale of any of them. It's like they pulled out all the stops as if it was the last season they were going to make, which is brilliant and why they should do that with every episode. Season 4 is actually really good so far too.
Personally I liked Season 1, Season 2 obviously the better one, but I thought that the in and out episodes of Echo really made every episode that much more interesting cause she could be pretty much anything. However, whatshisface totally stole the show when he showed up as Alpha.
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:^: though I'm watching buffy for the first time now and loving it. and i still have angel to tackle. that said, buffy is getting kinda long (midway through season 4) its not getting any worse but I'm a bit over it (probably because a bunch has been spoiled--and even though its a show that is more about execution than plot--I still kinda feel like I get the point). I'd go 1:1 trading seasons of firefly for buffy and not look back.
See this just clinches it, you're from some kind of evil backwards universe where everybody has a goatee aren't you?
Dollhouse got really good towards the end, even after a weak beginning of the first season. I recently watched the whole series and found myself not very upset that it was over. It was a nice, bookended story, that even though had some gaping holes, wouldn't have taken really any longer to tell than 2 seasons. As some have already said, the doll of the week thing was already old and the espionage aspect of the show couldn't really have progressed beyond who to make the next big villain.
I think sometimes we're gluttonous as a television audience. We take shows that would be brilliant as a 3-4 season journey, and extend them into 5 or 6 seasons by the end of which we're sick, full and vengeful towards the narrative.
Different writers on a different network could have done the show justice, but it wasn't doing anything interesting enough to stave off cancellation when it came.
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I think that Arrested Development lasted just long enough. And the ending is perfect. If it has gone on another season or two, it couldn't have kept up that level of quality, and probably would have been run into the ground.
Considering the ratings that show got, 3 seasons is incredibly generous.
I think the US Office needs desperately to be put out of its misery, as it has long overstayed its welcome. The UK Office, condensed into 2 seasons, is absolutely masterful. Condensed into 2-3 season, the US version of the Office would probably have ended without any tarnish on its reputation.
If I'm going to stay on topic though, I'd say that Pushing Daisies was canceled before it needed to be. The last three episodes of that show, wrapping up every loose end, was too quick and ineffectual. Another season and that show could've had such a splendid ending.
I still find tons of stuff to laugh at in the American Office despite diminished quality over time. The UK Office deprived me of potential laughs by being so short.
That is, admittedly, the barest thread of a silver lining, but it's the only cold comfort one has.
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I disagree
I want the people working on it doing it for as long as possible. as long as they are into it.
I'd rather get to that day and go beyond and have some bad episodes then not get everything you could get.
about any show but obviously I'm a fan of arrested development
I have the sneaking suspicion that more than one writer or director has taken the Channel 101 way out, and just shit all over their show so they could finally be free of it.
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I think that is highly unlikely. Once a show hits critical mass, there are too many wheels in motion and too many people employed for any writer to "tank" a show.
If someone is unhappy, they are always able to leave. As shows progress, writing staff, showrunners and every other position changes pretty consistently.
As for my feelings on shows continuing past their prime, I think it applies more heavily towards narrative driven shows than sitcoms or otherwise. Arrested Development probably would've been funny for years. But a show like Lost, that is ultimately driven by narrative, was definitely hurt due to stretching plot points and retreading old ground. That is ultimately when it is a shame that a show isn't ended. When it hurts the overall product.
It's equal to "Sorry that your kid was killed by that serial murderer. But at least she never had the chance to become a crack whore, or something, man."
I WOULD TAKE A CRACK WHORE OVER A MURDER VICTIM
Don't even get me started, Serenity killed (waagh) some of the things I liked best about Firefly. I thought the ending to episode 14 was actually a much better conclusion, in the end, for various reasons.