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The Celebrated Jumping [chat] of Calaveras County

Psycho Internet HawkPsycho Internet Hawk Registered User regular
edited January 2011 in Debate and/or Discourse
Wikipedia wrote:
"The Celebrated Jumping Frog of Calaveras County" is an 1865 short story by Mark Twain, his first great success as a writer, bringing him national attention. The story has also been published as "Jim Smiley and His Jumping Frog" (its original title) and "The Notorious Jumping Frog of Calaveras County". In it, the narrator retells a story he heard from a bartender, Simon Wheeler, at the Angels Hotel in Angels Camp, California, about the gambler Jim Smiley. Twain describes him: "If he even seen a straddle bug start to go anywheres, he would bet you how long it would take him to get to—to wherever he going to, and if you took him up, he would foller that straddle bug to Mexico but what he would find out where he was bound for and how long he was on the road."

A 2011 edition of the story, published by NewSouth Books, replaced the word "frog" with "amphibian." The initiative to update the story was led by Mark Twain scholar Alan Gribben, who said the change was made to better express Twain's ideas in the 21st century.Gribben said he hoped the edition, which does not replace other uncensored versions of the story, would be more friendly for use in classrooms, rather than have the work banned outright from classroom reading lists due to its language. Another scholar, Thomas Wortham, criticized the changes, saying they did not adequately convey the connotations of the original story's harsh language.

Psycho Internet Hawk on
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Posts

  • EddyEddy pale Gengars I loved beside Cerulean CaveRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Six pack on a dick Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I've seen a signed first edition of this book. It was $19,000.

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    All my fuckin life I lived a normal fuckin life
  • VariableVariable Ted Hitler Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Arch wrote: »
    Variable I think there are at least far less movies about a non-white culture standing up for itself on its own with no influence from a white man than there are of movies where a white dude integrates and leads a culture to victory in popular entertainment that it is a bit of a problem

    that is just me, and I can't back that up with numbers

    I also don't have numbers, and if you're right I'll change my tune.

    my new tune would be 'this is disturbingly prevalent so even if I think any given case makes sense (within the narrative, I mean) I don't like the trend'

    I have no trouble with that at all, I just don't actually know that it's the case.

    but I haven't seen every movie obviously, and this is an issue I never even heard of until Avatar came out, something I'm ignorant on.

    I'm a guy who enjoyed dances with wolves, you know? I'm on of them.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    http://www4.samford.edu/groups/aceta/auburn%2008%20alan%20gribben.jpg

    Hmm Alan Gribben spear headed this change and he looks surpringly not black at all.

  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Six pack on a dick Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Soon the only remaining unedited book will be Pat the Bunny.

    Wait, nevermind. It glorifies the heteronormative "traditional" nuclear family dynamic while encouraging the capture and incarceration of wild animals for human amusement. No unedited books remain.

    h1DI1.jpg
    All my fuckin life I lived a normal fuckin life
  • Psycho Internet HawkPsycho Internet Hawk Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I feel like I made the joke in the OP too subtle. Like people will just see it and go "eh frog story who cares" and not read the second paragraph.

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  • SenjutsuSenjutsu fiddy too Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Nobody ever finishes Huckleberry Finn

    I mean it's not an enduring classic and frequently cited favorite novel or anything

    nope

    that shit is L'Étranger levels of owned-but-never-read

    Sarksus wrote: »
    I'm gonna get a PhD in incest.
  • radroadkillradroadkill MDRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Why is my dog so into licking his feet? It's gross sounding and gross in general.

    Nerdgasmic wrote: »
    Like some sort of raptor or the Great panda, Rad cannot properly initiate egg preparation if she senses a disturbance within her environment.
  • DaxonDaxon Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Preacher wrote:
    For books its intended when the race of the character isn't addressed. It's a writer technique to have you adjust the cast to your taste and connect with them better.

    But.. what makes it bad when Hollywood does it?

    Hollywood is after-all an American thing where the majority of the population is white.

  • SenjutsuSenjutsu fiddy too Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Variable wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    Variable I think there are at least far less movies about a non-white culture standing up for itself on its own with no influence from a white man than there are of movies where a white dude integrates and leads a culture to victory in popular entertainment that it is a bit of a problem

    that is just me, and I can't back that up with numbers

    I also don't have numbers, and if you're right I'll change my tune.

    my new tune would be 'this is disturbingly prevalent so even if I think any given case makes sense (within the narrative, I mean) I don't like the trend'

    I have no trouble with that at all, I just don't actually know that it's the case.

    but I haven't seen every movie obviously, and this is an issue I never even heard of until Avatar came out, something I'm ignorant on.

    I'm a guy who enjoyed dances with wolves, you know? I'm on of them.
    Thunderheart came to mind as another movie

    I had a whole thing typed up about people reacting to Avatar more for the trope it seems to fit in rather than its specifics, but I lost it when the thread closed

    Sarksus wrote: »
    I'm gonna get a PhD in incest.
  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Six pack on a dick Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Also I've always enjoyed how people who edit old works pull out the "It's closer to what the author really meant" reasoning. You pretentious fuck, it's words written on paper by the author's actual hand. I'm pretty sure what the author meant is what they wrote down by using the writing implement in their hand that was attached to their body, being controlled by their brain.

    h1DI1.jpg
    All my fuckin life I lived a normal fuckin life
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar QA Tester -> Game Producer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Nobody ever finishes Huckleberry Finn

    I mean it's not an enduring classic and frequently cited favorite novel or anything

    nope

    that shit is L'Étranger levels of owned-but-never-read

    I finished reading it. And read Tom Sawyer on my own. :(

    I also read The Stranger.

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  • ArchArch HELLO YES THIS IS BUG Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Variable wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    Variable I think there are at least far less movies about a non-white culture standing up for itself on its own with no influence from a white man than there are of movies where a white dude integrates and leads a culture to victory in popular entertainment that it is a bit of a problem

    that is just me, and I can't back that up with numbers

    I also don't have numbers, and if you're right I'll change my tune.

    my new tune would be 'this is disturbingly prevalent so even if I think any given case makes sense (within the narrative, I mean) I don't like the trend'

    I have no trouble with that at all, I just don't actually know that it's the case.

    but I haven't seen every movie obviously, and this is an issue I never even heard of until Avatar came out, something I'm ignorant on.

    I'm a guy who enjoyed dances with wolves, you know? I'm on of them.

    For context, I immensely enjoyed blue Avatar, even in spite of it being indicative of what I see as not necessarily a problem, but definitely an uncomfortable trend

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    My coworker is Indian. He eats a lot of Indian food. I hate the smell of Indian food. Now its all in my office.

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  • ThomamelasThomamelas “Three films a day, three books a week and records of great music would be enough to make me happy to the day I die.” Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Nobody ever finishes Huckleberry Finn

    I mean it's not an enduring classic and frequently cited favorite novel or anything

    nope

    that shit is L'Étranger levels of owned-but-never-read

    I have. I really enjoy Twain and while Huck Finn isn't my favorite of his novels I have read it multiple times.

  • JokermanJokerman Love is careless in its choosing. Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Nobody ever finishes Huckleberry Finn

    I mean it's not an enduring classic and frequently cited favorite novel or anything

    nope

    that shit is L'Étranger levels of owned-but-never-read

    I own and have read l'etranger

    Chanus wrote: »
    the best asians are white people
    My blog about Beer!
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Daxon wrote: »
    Preacher wrote:
    For books its intended when the race of the character isn't addressed. It's a writer technique to have you adjust the cast to your taste and connect with them better.

    But.. what makes it bad when Hollywood does it?

    Hollywood is after-all an American thing where the majority of the population is white.

    It depends, if its an original story, sure go ahead white it up. But if its originally a story with minorities (hello airbender) and you white wash it, then its retarded.

    This also can be stupid when you turn a character like I dunno Jim West into a black man.

  • LudiousLudious It's hard out here for a conservative bronyRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    My coworker is Indian. He eats a lot of Indian food. I hate the smell of Indian food. Now its all in my office.

    Almost got fired from my last job for heating up pad thai once. not Indian food, but true story bro.

  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Six pack on a dick Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Preacher wrote: »
    Daxon wrote: »
    Preacher wrote:
    For books its intended when the race of the character isn't addressed. It's a writer technique to have you adjust the cast to your taste and connect with them better.

    But.. what makes it bad when Hollywood does it?

    Hollywood is after-all an American thing where the majority of the population is white.

    It depends, if its an original story, sure go ahead white it up. But if its originally a story with minorities (hello airbender) and you white wash it, then its retarded.

    This also can be stupid when you turn a character like I dunno Jim West into a black man.
    Oh sure like there was a white rapper who could've played that part.

    h1DI1.jpg
    All my fuckin life I lived a normal fuckin life
  • LudiousLudious It's hard out here for a conservative bronyRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Preacher wrote: »
    Daxon wrote: »
    Preacher wrote:
    For books its intended when the race of the character isn't addressed. It's a writer technique to have you adjust the cast to your taste and connect with them better.

    But.. what makes it bad when Hollywood does it?

    Hollywood is after-all an American thing where the majority of the population is white.

    It depends, if its an original story, sure go ahead white it up. But if its originally a story with minorities (hello airbender) and you white wash it, then its retarded.

    This also can be stupid when you turn a character like I dunno Jim West into a black man.

    but any damsel thats in dress be outta dat dress when they meet jim west!

  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Six pack on a dick Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Really though, I'm just trying to get 20% of the posts on this page I guess.

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    All my fuckin life I lived a normal fuckin life
  • SenjutsuSenjutsu fiddy too Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Nobody ever finishes Huckleberry Finn

    I mean it's not an enduring classic and frequently cited favorite novel or anything

    nope

    that shit is L'Étranger levels of owned-but-never-read

    I have. I really enjoy Twain and while Huck Finn isn't my favorite of his novels I have read it multiple times.

    I probably should have included a sarcasm tag

    Sarksus wrote: »
    I'm gonna get a PhD in incest.
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Thunderheart came to mind as another movie

    I had a whole thing typed up about people reacting to Avatar more for the trope it seems to fit in rather than its specifics, but I lost it when the thread closed

    Wasn't thunderheart based on a real story? And I'm pretty sure that Kilmer was supposed to be part native american right?

  • DaxonDaxon Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Preacher wrote: »
    Daxon wrote: »
    Preacher wrote:
    For books its intended when the race of the character isn't addressed. It's a writer technique to have you adjust the cast to your taste and connect with them better.

    But.. what makes it bad when Hollywood does it?

    Hollywood is after-all an American thing where the majority of the population is white.

    It depends, if its an original story, sure go ahead white it up. But if its originally a story with minorities (hello airbender) and you white wash it, then its retarded.

    This also can be stupid when you turn a character like I dunno Jim West into a black man.

    I agree with this.

    The Last Airbender was especially terrible about it because they had source material that was already in a visual form. Though I found the "white main characters" thing mostly annoying because it just looked terrible.

    That movie was a complete wreck though. Horrible horrible thing to watch.

  • Psycho Internet HawkPsycho Internet Hawk Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Work over. Bye for now [chat], enjoy the thread!

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar QA Tester -> Game Producer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I actually have The Stranger because my first love sent it to me saying that it reminded her of me.

    After I finished reading it my response was "Wut"

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  • Donkey KongDonkey Kong Warning: Donkey Kong is not a real doctor Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Cartoon bombs. Were they ever a real thing? You know, the round ones.

    bomb.jpg

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  • ArchArch HELLO YES THIS IS BUG Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Ludious wrote: »
    My coworker is Indian. He eats a lot of Indian food. I hate the smell of Indian food. Now its all in my office.

    Almost got fired from my last job for heating up pad thai once. not Indian food, but true story bro.

    true story bro

    pad thai is one of my favorite things and it really bugs me that a lot of places still use fish sauce in it

    it was a happy day when I went to a noodle place here and they were all "well since you got tofu I need to let you know the normal pad thai sauce has fish in it, but we have another we use that is just as good for vegetarians/vegans"

  • EddyEddy pale Gengars I loved beside Cerulean CaveRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Daxon wrote: »
    Preacher wrote:
    For books its intended when the race of the character isn't addressed. It's a writer technique to have you adjust the cast to your taste and connect with them better.

    But.. what makes it bad when Hollywood does it?

    Hollywood is after-all an American thing where the majority of the population is white.

    To me it's not really "bad" or anything. It's an easy way to make money, by assuming the majority of the movie-going public is a) mostly white, and/or b) used to seeing whites in leading roles. Catering to the demographic, and all that.

    However, you can see why people would get upset about it when it's a white person taking the lead role of "The Last of the Mohicans" or "The Last Samurai". While it does appeal to the correct demographics, it sacrifices quite a few things such as realism, historical accuracy, blah blah blah political correctness.

    But I understand why Hollywood does it. Visuals are much more impacting than reading a novel since you can go an entire book without ever thinking about the protagonist's face, whereas in a movie you see it like 100% of screentime. People can identify with a book protagonist pretty easily regardless of race, but when it's like, Ludacris in the main role of a movie, even if he's playing a respectable CEO businessman, people are like ehhh

  • LaOsLaOs Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Why is my dog so into licking his feet? It's gross sounding and gross in general.

    Might have allergies.

  • SenjutsuSenjutsu fiddy too Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Preacher wrote: »
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Thunderheart came to mind as another movie

    I had a whole thing typed up about people reacting to Avatar more for the trope it seems to fit in rather than its specifics, but I lost it when the thread closed

    Wasn't thunderheart based on a real story? And I'm pretty sure that Kilmer was supposed to be part native american right?

    it's kind of loosely based on a real incident

    and yeah, his character is supposed to be half-indian and discovering his roots, IIRC

    Sarksus wrote: »
    I'm gonna get a PhD in incest.
  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Six pack on a dick Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Cartoon bombs. Were they ever a real thing? You know, the round ones.

    bomb.jpg
    There were cannonballs like this, sort of the first explosive incendiary shell. They'd load the cannon, light it, ram it down the barrel and fire, and it would explode in or close to the target.

    h1DI1.jpg
    All my fuckin life I lived a normal fuckin life
  • AriviaArivia Registered User
    edited January 2011
    New [chat].

    *sniff sniff*

    Looks alright.

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  • VariableVariable Ted Hitler Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Variable wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    Variable I think there are at least far less movies about a non-white culture standing up for itself on its own with no influence from a white man than there are of movies where a white dude integrates and leads a culture to victory in popular entertainment that it is a bit of a problem

    that is just me, and I can't back that up with numbers

    I also don't have numbers, and if you're right I'll change my tune.

    my new tune would be 'this is disturbingly prevalent so even if I think any given case makes sense (within the narrative, I mean) I don't like the trend'

    I have no trouble with that at all, I just don't actually know that it's the case.

    but I haven't seen every movie obviously, and this is an issue I never even heard of until Avatar came out, something I'm ignorant on.

    I'm a guy who enjoyed dances with wolves, you know? I'm on of them.
    Thunderheart came to mind as another movie

    I had a whole thing typed up about people reacting to Avatar more for the trope it seems to fit in rather than its specifics, but I lost it when the thread closed

    yeah I thought that might happen D:

    that's good though, I'm glad you were going to say that.

    I see your point though. I'm not exactly about to count movies but I'll be more aware of it from here on, sort of took talking about it to see at what point/in what way it would bother me.

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  • ArchArch HELLO YES THIS IS BUG Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Eddy wrote: »
    Daxon wrote: »
    Preacher wrote:
    For books its intended when the race of the character isn't addressed. It's a writer technique to have you adjust the cast to your taste and connect with them better.

    But.. what makes it bad when Hollywood does it?

    Hollywood is after-all an American thing where the majority of the population is white.

    To me it's not really "bad" or anything. It's an easy way to make money, by assuming the majority of the movie-going public is a) mostly white, and/or b) used to seeing whites in leading roles. Catering to the demographic, and all that.

    However, you can see why people would get upset about it when it's a white person taking the lead role of "The Last of the Mohicans" or "The Last Samurai". While it does appeal to the correct demographics, it sacrifices quite a few things such as realism, historical accuracy, blah blah blah political correctness.

    But I understand why Hollywood does it. Visuals are much more impacting than reading a novel since you can go an entire book without ever thinking about the protagonist's face, whereas in a movie you see it like 100% of screentime.

    Not to completely disagree, but an appeal to the market doesn't make something "good".

    I mean your entire post is pretty much accurate, I disagree that it isn't "bad".

    I mean this isn't a binary though- it may not be "bad" per se, but it is certainly not good

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Thunderheart came to mind as another movie

    I had a whole thing typed up about people reacting to Avatar more for the trope it seems to fit in rather than its specifics, but I lost it when the thread closed

    Wasn't thunderheart based on a real story? And I'm pretty sure that Kilmer was supposed to be part native american right?

    it's kind of loosely based on a real incident

    and yeah, his character is supposed to be half-indian and discovering his roots, IIRC

    So its more about Hollywood using Kilmer in the role? Or I'm at a loss why you pointed it out?

  • JokermanJokerman Love is careless in its choosing. Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Cartoon bombs. Were they ever a real thing? You know, the round ones.

    bomb.jpg

    That's what Grenadiers threw.

    HATI-08135.jpg
    Ya know, these guys.

    Chanus wrote: »
    the best asians are white people
    My blog about Beer!
  • ArchArch HELLO YES THIS IS BUG Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
  • EddyEddy pale Gengars I loved beside Cerulean CaveRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Also I've always enjoyed how people who edit old works pull out the "It's closer to what the author really meant" reasoning. You pretentious fuck, it's words written on paper by the author's actual hand. I'm pretty sure what the author meant is what they wrote down by using the writing implement in their hand that was attached to their body, being controlled by their brain.

    Welcome to the wild world of literary theory

    Careful you don't step in the bullllllshit

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