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evicting a non leasee from a rented home

OrganichuOrganichu Registered User regular
edited January 2011 in Help / Advice Forum
so, i live in pennsylvania

this is my question

someone in my home who is not on the lease needs to be evicted immediately (disruption, violence, etc)

what i am wondering is whether the home owner needs to get involved, or if the primary leaser can handle it

the person who is primarily on the lease is hoping not to involve the homeowner in this situation at all

Organichu on
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Posts

  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Organichu wrote: »
    so, i live in pennsylvania

    this is my question

    someone in my home who is not on the lease needs to be evicted immediately (disruption, violence, etc)

    what i am wondering is whether the home owner needs to get involved, or if the primary leaser can handle it

    the person who is primarily on the lease is hoping not to involve the homeowner in this situation at all

    Can they not just tell the person "Get the hell out"?

    If they're not on the lease then they have no particular right to be there. Local laws vary and I've heard horror stories about people being unable to evict tenants in rental properties, but I'd think that in the vast majority of situations if the lease-holder wants some non-signatory tenant to get out it should be a fairly straight-forward process of telling them to get out. If they won't go for it, call the cops and, if necessary, show them that the person's name isn't on the lease. Now, if the leaser and the other person are married or one is a dependent it could be messier, but if it's just a roommate I don't see why it would.

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  • GrimmGrimm Registered User
    edited January 2011
    Organichu wrote: »
    so, i live in pennsylvania

    this is my question

    someone in my home who is not on the lease needs to be evicted immediately (disruption, violence, etc)

    what i am wondering is whether the home owner needs to get involved, or if the primary leaser can handle it

    the person who is primarily on the lease is hoping not to involve the homeowner in this situation at all

    Can they not just tell the person "Get the hell out"?

    If they're not on the lease then they have no particular right to be there. Local laws vary and I've heard horror stories about people being unable to evict tenants in rental properties, but I'd think that in the vast majority of situations if the lease-holder wants some non-signatory tenant to get out it should be a fairly straight-forward process of telling them to get out. If they won't go for it, call the cops and, if necessary, show them that the person's name isn't on the lease. Now, if the leaser and the other person are married or one is a dependent it could be messier, but if it's just a roommate I don't see why it would.


    I dont think its that easy. I'm pretty sure that if they can prove they lived there by receiving mail at the property, pays any utility bills for the house, etc, then you'll have to go through the eviction process.

  • OrganichuOrganichu Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    the cops were here last night and even though this woman is not on the lease (and contributes no money except occasionally putting in some food) they said she needed to be evicted- or that one of us needed to get a stay away order. i was struck a few times last night but that was me placing myself between her and her boyfriend- the cop said i'm free to file a report but since the blows could be characterized as 'accidental', an order might not be granted.

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  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Is the boyfriend a lessee? If so, he should file for a protective order.

  • XaviarXaviar Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Slightly off-topic, but can someone explain to me why you can't just declare them trespassing and have them forcibly removed?
    Not a home, I know, but in the various retail places I've managed, I've done this hundreds of times to people we needed out, and if they aren't on the lease...

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  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Xaviar wrote: »
    Slightly off-topic, but can someone explain to me why you can't just declare them trespassing and have them forcibly removed?
    Not a home, I know, but in the various retail places I've managed, I've done this hundreds of times to people we needed out, and if they aren't on the lease...

    Because in a number of cases, such as common law marriage or abusive relationships what you've just done is made someone homeless, despite the fact that they may have a legitimate claim to the property that goes beyond being on a lease.

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  • XaviarXaviar Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Sentry wrote: »
    Xaviar wrote: »
    Slightly off-topic, but can someone explain to me why you can't just declare them trespassing and have them forcibly removed?
    Not a home, I know, but in the various retail places I've managed, I've done this hundreds of times to people we needed out, and if they aren't on the lease...

    Because in a number of cases, such as common law marriage or abusive relationships what you've just done is made someone homeless, despite the fact that they may have a legitimate claim to the property that goes beyond being on a lease.

    I guess this is the hard part for me. I wasn't aware you could have a claim without being on the lease, or being tied to the lease-holder in some fashion, ie marriage or dependant.

    Back on-topic.

    If this is going to take a while, is it possible to temporarily move the abusee out of the house, to a friends or some-such, until this is resolved? While my legal expertise is non-existent, I do have some experience with abusive relationships, and maintaining proximity right now is not really the best thing..

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  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Xaviar wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    Xaviar wrote: »
    Slightly off-topic, but can someone explain to me why you can't just declare them trespassing and have them forcibly removed?
    Not a home, I know, but in the various retail places I've managed, I've done this hundreds of times to people we needed out, and if they aren't on the lease...

    Because in a number of cases, such as common law marriage or abusive relationships what you've just done is made someone homeless, despite the fact that they may have a legitimate claim to the property that goes beyond being on a lease.

    I guess this is the hard part for me. I wasn't aware you could have a claim without being on the lease, or being tied to the lease-holder in some fashion, ie marriage or dependant.

    Residential law is different than what would cover a retail building. Letting somebody live there and use it as their primary residence makes it their primary residence, lease or not, and you have some legal loopholes to go through to get them out. Hell, in some places, even squatters who take up illegal residence in an owned structure can't just be rolled up and kicked out depending on how long they've been there.

    Back to the OP: Is there any important reason you don't want the landlord involved? For example, is just letting her stay there is a violation of your own lease? Landlords are generally familiar with, or at least have a lawyer who's familiar with the whole eviction process, and he could be your best ally in getting rid of this person.

  • SammyFSammyF Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Best I can tell, you will probably need either a restraint order or the landlord will need to serve her an eviction notice that details the reason for eviction as well as a date by which he wants her to leave. If she doesn't respond to that, he'll have to file a landlord/tenant complaint at the local district court. A restraining order for your friend/roommate might be faster.

  • TalonrazorTalonrazor Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    From my experience in working in a local law enforcement department in Alaska, anyone who has stayed at a residence for more then thirty days is considered to legally living there. Thus, they have to be evicted. It is one of the primary reasons I do not let friends stay long-term couch surfing. Once they hit that thirty-day mark, they as good as live there.

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  • Dropping LoadsDropping Loads Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Talonrazor wrote: »
    From my experience in working in a local law enforcement department in Alaska, anyone who has stayed at a residence for more then thirty days is considered to legally living there. Thus, they have to be evicted. It is one of the primary reasons I do not let friends stay long-term couch surfing. Once they hit that thirty-day mark, they as good as live there.

    It's the same way in Berkeley (where I live now), but in Atlanta (where I'm from) there are no such tenant protections. It really does depend on exactly where you live.

    Organichu, if the person does have tenant protection and you need to take this to the landlord to get the problem solved, you should probably be ready to start looking for a new place as well. Your landlord is not going to be happy that someone has tenancy without his permission.

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  • MrMonroeMrMonroe Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Wait

    She is sharing a room with her boyfriend but pays no rent? How long has she been living there under this arrangement? Does she receive mail there or list it as her primary residence? If the answers are "not that long" and "no," then she's probably not a resident but a guest, and you and her boyfriend can ask her to leave any time you want. The tricky part is getting the boyfriend to help kick her out, but then it's going to be impossible to get rid of her for good as long as he still allows her to come round the house.

  • CabezoneCabezone Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Without knowing the location the question cannot be answered. In California, mail has nothing to do with it. Simply living somewhere for more than x days means you have all the rights of a tenant. In which case it has to be the homeowner who evicts.

  • MrMonroeMrMonroe Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Except that it's PA, as the OP said in the first line.

    My point is basically this: She is, at best, a tenant at will. (or at sufferance if the landlord wants to play it like that) The landlord may terminate her housing there at any time given notice. You have certain landlord-like rights under the lease because you're a tenant.

    Talk to the boyfriend. See how he wants to play it. If he wants her out, you can both sit her down and tell her to get lost, and the odds are she will. (does she really want to stay in his room after that?)

    If you have to do it on your own without his help, this will be much harder.

  • Pure DinPure Din Rhode Island Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Did she hit her boyfriend as well as you? He should contact a domestic shelter or help organization -- I know those kinds of services are usually used by women, but they would be able to give him the fastest and most relevant information for the state that you guys live in.

  • Dropping LoadsDropping Loads Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    Except that it's PA, as the OP said in the first line.

    My point is basically this: She is, at best, a tenant at will. (or at sufferance if the landlord wants to play it like that) The landlord may terminate her housing there at any time given notice. You have certain landlord-like rights under the lease because you're a tenant.

    Talk to the boyfriend. See how he wants to play it. If he wants her out, you can both sit her down and tell her to get lost, and the odds are she will. (does she really want to stay in his room after that?)

    If you have to do it on your own without his help, this will be much harder.

    No offense, but this reply reads like you are speaking from personal experience about PA, is that true? Your reply didn't make that entirely clear. Additionally, it's important to check local regulations (i.e. city or municipality) in addition to state, because it's possible there are stronger local restrictions. It should be pretty easy to contact your rent control board or a city helpline to have someone define this for you.

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  • CabezoneCabezone Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    Except that it's PA, as the OP said in the first line.

    My point is basically this: She is, at best, a tenant at will. (or at sufferance if the landlord wants to play it like that) The landlord may terminate her housing there at any time given notice. You have certain landlord-like rights under the lease because you're a tenant.

    Talk to the boyfriend. See how he wants to play it. If he wants her out, you can both sit her down and tell her to get lost, and the odds are she will. (does she really want to stay in his room after that?)

    If you have to do it on your own without his help, this will be much harder.

    Cities frequently have their own tenant laws.

  • MrMonroeMrMonroe Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I'm aware of the problem of municipal statutes

    It is unlikely she is

    I am not saying you should attempt to take advantage of this person, I am saying there's one big unanswered question here: has the OP sat down with the boyfriend and the unwanted tenant and told her "we don't want you here anymore, please leave?"

    Because before you worry about getting a court order, tell her she is no longer welcome and that she needs to move out. Most people, upon hearing this, are likely to leave on their own steam, as peaceably as their personality allows. (And rather more peaceably and cheaply than if you make them come to court)

    There's a big question as to what her boyfriend's relationship with her is going to look like afterward. Is he going to tell her "no, baby, they went over my head and had you kicked out" or is he going to stand up to her abusive behavior? If it's the latter, ask her to leave first. Get him to ask her to leave. If it's the former, well, you're not likely to get rid of her by forcibly evicting her, and you ought to get help for your friend.

  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I know in Wisconsin it can be virtually impossible to evict someone from Late November to early April due to an eviction in the winter months could be a death sentence if the evictee can prove they have no where else to go. PA may have something similar so you may want to look into that as well.

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  • JohnnyCacheJohnnyCache Starting Defense Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    patrol cops aren't lawyers. Double check what the cop told you, for sure.

  • OrganichuOrganichu Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    ok, so, update

    we all talked to her the night the cops came out and yes, we told her she was no longer welcome and she had to leave- and if she didn't, she'd be evicted. she basically said 'blargh blargh i'm drunk suck my dick' and she called me a lying kike

    so

    after sobering up she realized the threat of eviction (and an assault charge) were real and she had her family in texas pay for a one way ticket there

    so, problem resolved i guess

    thanks all

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  • DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2011
  • MrMonroeMrMonroe Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Hey, there you go! At least she's old school in her anti-semetic slurs. I haven't heard "kike" in a long ass time.
    patrol cops aren't lawyers. Double check what the cop told you, for sure.

    A thousand fucking times this. So many people in H/A come in and say "a cop told me ______" only to be later told that the cops had no fucking idea what they were talking about. They are especially ignorant of landlord/tenant law and tort, and you can only take their advice at your own peril.

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