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[Rep. Giffords] thread (NOT A GUN THREAD)

Irond WillIrond Will DragonmasterCambridge. MASuper Moderator, Moderator mod
edited January 2011 in Debate and/or Discourse
Hi, this is a thread to discuss the attempted assassination of Representative Giffords and the murder of six people yesterday.

I had to lock the other thread because it seemed to be devolving into pettiness and going off the rails and i just didn't have it in me to wade through and look for infractions.

It is a tragedy and an emotional topic, so please post with consideration and a little gentleness where possible.

Irond Will on
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«13456763

Posts

  • Evil_ReaverEvil_Reaver Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    My wife worked for a Congressman up until June of this year. The person who had her job in Rep. Giffords's office was shot and killed. Needless to say, my wife is glad she is not in politics any more. It's really sad that American politics has come to this.

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  • Bionic MonkeyBionic Monkey Registered User, ClubPA
    edited January 2011
    Do we have a definite, final number on the other people injured and killed in this? The number kept bobbing all over the place yesterday. I kept hearing anything from 6, up to 18.

    sig_megas_armed.jpg
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    So stuff from TPM:

    1) She responded to commands which is a good sign. Not out of the woods yet and probably has a long recovery in front of her.
    2) The Feds are going to charge Loughner sometime today.
    3) Local authorities are backing off the accomplice theory from yesterday but he remains a person of interest.
    4) This kid is a hero.

    Also, should we have a separate eliminationist rhetoric thread (again) so as to help keep this more focused?

    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • Evil_ReaverEvil_Reaver Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I think it's 14 wounded, 6 fatalities.

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  • HedgethornHedgethorn Associate Professor of Historical Hobby Horses In the Lions' DenRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Fox got hold of a Homeland Security memo that suspects a white supremicist group may have been behind this:
    trong suspicion is being directed at AmRen / American Renaissance. Suspect is possibly linked to this group. (through videos posted on his myspace and YouTube account.). The group’s ideology is anti government, anti immigration, anti ZOG (Zionist Occupational Government), anti Semitic. Gabrielle Gifford is the first Jewish female elected to such a high position in the US government. She was also opposite this group’s ideology when it came to immigration debate.

    It's like West Wing season 1 all over again...

    Edit: I'm not sure whether this memo is from before or after the feds said the guy from the photograph probably wasn't Loughner's accomplice.

  • Professor PhobosProfessor Phobos Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    One of the things that struck me about this is that, as a fairly young guy, I had kind of emotionally classified "political assassination in the United States" as something that "happened in the 60s." As in, it was "history." Something that happened but didn't happen, you know? There were plenty of attempts in my lifetime, of course, but there was always this kind of abstraction to the idea. It's kind of like waking up to find out the Japanese bombed a naval base in the pacific- a kind of, what the hell, I thought we'd gotten this kind of bullshit over and done with already. What, Mad Men got everyone in a 1960s mood all of a sudden?

    Ugh.

    EDIT: Also, did anyone else notice- in early news reports, it was just Jared Loughner...and then like, all of a sudden, it was Jared Lee Loughner. It's like we subconsciously add middle names to our assassins, when we'd normally just use first and last.

  • lonelyahavalonelyahava One day, I will be able to say to myself "I am beautiful and I am perfect just the way I am"Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Thank you for that link in #4, Bum. That was what I needed to see this morning. Full sincerity.

    I had a great post typed up last night about how and why people reacted like they did, both here and elsewhere, but Will locked the thread just as I was trying to post it. Seems kind of irrelevant now.

    according to the headlines that I saw, the Congresswoman was in critical condition in a medically induced coma. Doctors say they are cautiously optimistic.

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  • Bobkins FlymoBobkins Flymo HAPPY WAALUWEEN Registered User, Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited January 2011
    This is all still pretty surreal.

    eG9gdum.gif
  • InvisibleInvisible Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    So have they released any information as to where this guy was living or working?

    It really does seem like he has some severe mental issues and I'm just curious how no one seemed to notice. Schizophrenia and the like can suddenly appear at his age, but did no one is family notice? Coworkers? His classmates apparently hadn't seen him for a while. I don't know, just seems odd that no one noticed over the holidays and he was apparently able to purchase a weapon and ammunition, implying a job or some source of money.

    I'd be surprised if he actually has a real link to an actual group. He might have felt like he belonged with their ideology, but I'm betting on a psychotic break with his target chosen based on political rhetoric.

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  • adytumadytum Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    EDIT: Also, did anyone else notice- in early news reports, it was just Jared Loughner...and then like, all of a sudden, it was Jared Lee Loughner. It's like we subconsciously add middle names to our assassins, when we'd normally just use first and last.

    I'm pretty sure that's done to be as specific as possible in identifying who it was so no mistake is made. I don't think it's a written rule, though, just common practice.

    etxvv5.jpg
  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Harrisonburg, VARegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Hedgethorn wrote: »
    Fox got hold of a Homeland Security memo that suspects a white supremicist group may have been behind this:
    trong suspicion is being directed at AmRen / American Renaissance. Suspect is possibly linked to this group. (through videos posted on his myspace and YouTube account.). The group’s ideology is anti government, anti immigration, anti ZOG (Zionist Occupational Government), anti Semitic. Gabrielle Gifford is the first Jewish female elected to such a high position in the US government. She was also opposite this group’s ideology when it came to immigration debate.
    Abwuuh? She was just elected to her third term in the House. There are more senior Jewish women in both houses of Congress.

  • InvisibleInvisible Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    adytum wrote: »
    EDIT: Also, did anyone else notice- in early news reports, it was just Jared Loughner...and then like, all of a sudden, it was Jared Lee Loughner. It's like we subconsciously add middle names to our assassins, when we'd normally just use first and last.

    I'm pretty sure that's done to be as specific as possible in identifying who it was so no mistake is made. I don't think it's a written rule, though, just common practice.

    Yes. It's the same reason reporters will list the address as well.

    Let's say Professor Lee Phobos of 123 Evergreen Terrace molested 50 mentally handicapped, blind children; I think you'd agree it's better for the reporters to list all that information than Professor Phobos molested 50 mentally handicapped, blind children.

    steam_sig.png
  • Professor PhobosProfessor Phobos Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Invisible wrote: »
    adytum wrote: »
    EDIT: Also, did anyone else notice- in early news reports, it was just Jared Loughner...and then like, all of a sudden, it was Jared Lee Loughner. It's like we subconsciously add middle names to our assassins, when we'd normally just use first and last.

    I'm pretty sure that's done to be as specific as possible in identifying who it was so no mistake is made. I don't think it's a written rule, though, just common practice.

    Yes. It's the same reason reporters will list the address as well.

    Let's say Professor Lee Phobos of 123 Evergreen Terrace molested 50 mentally handicapped, blind children; I think you'd agree it's better for the reporters to list all that information than Professor Phobos molested 50 mentally handicapped, blind children.

    You know, that makes perfect sense.

  • adytumadytum Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Poor Lee Harold Oswald.

    etxvv5.jpg
  • tetsuoZshimatetsuoZshima Registered User
    edited January 2011
    Invisible wrote: »
    adytum wrote: »
    EDIT: Also, did anyone else notice- in early news reports, it was just Jared Loughner...and then like, all of a sudden, it was Jared Lee Loughner. It's like we subconsciously add middle names to our assassins, when we'd normally just use first and last.

    I'm pretty sure that's done to be as specific as possible in identifying who it was so no mistake is made. I don't think it's a written rule, though, just common practice.

    Professor Phobos molested 50 mentally handicapped, blind children.

    Holy crap. I had Professor Phobos for Business Calculus. I had no idea. I guess it explains the looks he kept giving Frank, the class blindy.

    So anyway, I tire of the political connections to this at this point, that is, specifically whether he was influenced by Palin or any other big political figure -- I am glad, however, that it is making people realize the ridiculous hate speech that has been going on over the past few elections, especially here. Tucson is actually a lovely place to live. If you could take away the people.

  • MyDcmbrMyDcmbr Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    That Sheriff is such a BadAss. I would be happy if he was the Sheriff in my county.

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  • AthenorAthenor Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I don't want to derail into leftist/right politics on this, at least this early, but I saw a blog post by someone I respect (Second City Cop) that basically paints this guy as a far-leftist, Communist kind of guy.

    I've always viewed the political spectrum as a circle(*) -- eventually, the far left and the far right eventually meet on the far side of crazy, diametrically opposite of moderate, and it is these people you have to be careful of. I really, really hope people focus more on the wellbeing of those injured and the families of those killed than anything political behind this. Don't turn this into ammo(**).



    *= Actually, I see it as a 2D grid. Can't wrap my head around 3-dimensional politics just yet.

    **= Yes, I know, people are already doing this, but I want to remain hopeful, okay?

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  • EddyEddy pale Gengars I loved beside Cerulean CaveRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Well, his favorite books listed a lot of extremist shit from across the spectrum (Objectivism, fascism, communism, etc) so there's something for everyone.

    Judging from the youtube videos, the guy was probably a paranoid schizophrenic with a deep distrust of the government and other people in general, while holding himself up to aggrandized delusions.

    He might have been spurred on by the acrid political climate, he might have just coincidentally fired into a political crowd. But I do know that he ended six lives yesterday and would have killed more if given the chance to reload.

    No matter what his beliefs, he is a shame upon America and all that we stand for.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    His ideology is incoherent, if what is supposedly his stuff is actually his stuff. There's a larger point, but I think if we want to talk about the general culture of political and eliminationist rhetoric we should make a new thread and keep this as basically a news thread.

    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • Marty81Marty81 Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Invisible wrote: »
    So have they released any information as to where this guy was living or working?

    It really does seem like he has some severe mental issues and I'm just curious how no one seemed to notice. Schizophrenia and the like can suddenly appear at his age, but did no one is family notice? Coworkers? His classmates apparently hadn't seen him for a while. I don't know, just seems odd that no one noticed over the holidays and he was apparently able to purchase a weapon and ammunition, implying a job or some source of money.

    I'd be surprised if he actually has a real link to an actual group. He might have felt like he belonged with their ideology, but I'm betting on a psychotic break with his target chosen based on political rhetoric.

    I did a little bit of digging last night and it appears that he was suspended from the college he attended several months ago for multiple counts of behavioral disruptions. I think I remember reading he lived with his parents and they were there for the suspension hearing. There was a blurb about this posted on his college's web site, but I can't find it right now.

  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    edited January 2011
    Invisible wrote: »
    adytum wrote: »
    EDIT: Also, did anyone else notice- in early news reports, it was just Jared Loughner...and then like, all of a sudden, it was Jared Lee Loughner. It's like we subconsciously add middle names to our assassins, when we'd normally just use first and last.

    I'm pretty sure that's done to be as specific as possible in identifying who it was so no mistake is made. I don't think it's a written rule, though, just common practice.

    Professor Phobos molested 50 mentally handicapped, blind children.

    Holy crap. I had Professor Phobos for Business Calculus. I had no idea. I guess it explains the looks he kept giving Frank, the class blindy.

    So anyway, I tire of the political connections to this at this point, that is, specifically whether he was influenced by Palin or any other big political figure -- I am glad, however, that it is making people realize the ridiculous hate speech that has been going on over the past few elections, especially here. Tucson is actually a lovely place to live. If you could take away the people.
    The troubling thing is that when you start looking at the hate speech in politics, it really is one-sided. I have been trying to find examples of democratic candidates saying things like "I have the opponent in my sights" or "second amendment remedies" if their voices aren't heard, and I don't see it outside of small, non-influential groups on the fringe (like PETA).

    To decry the hate speech demands examples of it, and right now all of the examples are from one party.

    Also, let's say this guy is not a tea party guy, or a birther, or even a registered republican. He is clearly someone easily influenced by bullshit (his belief in text pattern mind-control is proof of that), and people like this are easily swayed by statements like the kind that have been flying out of the right recently to do horrible things.

    The bible doesn't make people killers. The bible gives justification to unstable people to kill.

    Same story.


    Edit: I don't want to see this become political ammunition. I really don't. But what I do want to see is someone on the right who is big in the party (like Boehner) step forward and admit that his own party needs to turn the dial down a bit when it comes to their current language posturing. "Job Killing" is a really unfair way to posture something, and moreso, language like that can lead desperate people to do desperate things. Just stop it.

  • HozHoz Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Woman Tried to Stop Shooter as He Tried to Reload
    The alleged shooter in Arizona was attempting to reload his weapon when a woman grabbed the gun's magazine and ripped it away from him, Sheriff Clarence Dupnik told reporters Sunday.

    Mr. Dupnik said the woman was injured as she attempted to stop the suspect, who then tried to put another magazine in the gun, but the spring in the magazine failed.

    The sheriff said that allowed two men to subdue the suspect until authorities arrived.

    This could have been worse.

    Also, the little girl that was murdered was born on September 11th, 2001. That's just eerie.

  • KalTorakKalTorak Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Geez, that woman is like Batman.

  • Saint MadnessSaint Madness Registered User
    edited January 2011
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Geez, that woman is like Batman.

    Thing about these stories is that no matter how horrific they are they almost always involve more heroes than villans.

  • DarkCrawlerDarkCrawler Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    One of the things that struck me about this is that, as a fairly young guy, I had kind of emotionally classified "political assassination in the United States" as something that "happened in the 60s." As in, it was "history." Something that happened but didn't happen, you know? There were plenty of attempts in my lifetime, of course, but there was always this kind of abstraction to the idea. It's kind of like waking up to find out the Japanese bombed a naval base in the pacific- a kind of, what the hell, I thought we'd gotten this kind of bullshit over and done with already. What, Mad Men got everyone in a 1960s mood all of a sudden?

    Well, I'm not an American but...someone did shoot Ronald Reagan in 1981.

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    One of the things that struck me about this is that, as a fairly young guy, I had kind of emotionally classified "political assassination in the United States" as something that "happened in the 60s." As in, it was "history." Something that happened but didn't happen, you know? There were plenty of attempts in my lifetime, of course, but there was always this kind of abstraction to the idea. It's kind of like waking up to find out the Japanese bombed a naval base in the pacific- a kind of, what the hell, I thought we'd gotten this kind of bullshit over and done with already. What, Mad Men got everyone in a 1960s mood all of a sudden?

    Well, I'm not an American but...someone did shoot Ronald Reagan in 1981.

    Yeah but that was just a nutter trying to impress Jodie Foster.

    sig.jpg
  • DarkCrawlerDarkCrawler Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    One of the things that struck me about this is that, as a fairly young guy, I had kind of emotionally classified "political assassination in the United States" as something that "happened in the 60s." As in, it was "history." Something that happened but didn't happen, you know? There were plenty of attempts in my lifetime, of course, but there was always this kind of abstraction to the idea. It's kind of like waking up to find out the Japanese bombed a naval base in the pacific- a kind of, what the hell, I thought we'd gotten this kind of bullshit over and done with already. What, Mad Men got everyone in a 1960s mood all of a sudden?

    Well, I'm not an American but...someone did shoot Ronald Reagan in 1981.

    Yeah but that was just a nutter trying to impress Jodie Foster.

    Well, Kennedy's death was just some nutter as well, wasn't he?

    Arguably Lincoln was the only political assassination, considering what a Confederate sympathizer Booth was, and he wasn't really that crazy in the head (just really pissed).

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    One of the things that struck me about this is that, as a fairly young guy, I had kind of emotionally classified "political assassination in the United States" as something that "happened in the 60s." As in, it was "history." Something that happened but didn't happen, you know? There were plenty of attempts in my lifetime, of course, but there was always this kind of abstraction to the idea. It's kind of like waking up to find out the Japanese bombed a naval base in the pacific- a kind of, what the hell, I thought we'd gotten this kind of bullshit over and done with already. What, Mad Men got everyone in a 1960s mood all of a sudden?

    Well, I'm not an American but...someone did shoot Ronald Reagan in 1981.

    Yeah but that was just a nutter trying to impress Jodie Foster.

    Well, Kennedy's death was just some nutter as well, wasn't he?
    Man if you know for sure write a book and enjoy being rich.

    sig.jpg
  • EddyEddy pale Gengars I loved beside Cerulean CaveRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Athenor wrote: »
    I don't want to derail into leftist/right politics on this, at least this early, but I saw a blog post by someone I respect (Second City Cop) that basically paints this guy as a far-leftist, Communist kind of guy.

    I've always viewed the political spectrum as a circle(*) -- eventually, the far left and the far right eventually meet on the far side of crazy, diametrically opposite of moderate, and it is these people you have to be careful of. I really, really hope people focus more on the wellbeing of those injured and the families of those killed than anything political behind this. Don't turn this into ammo(**).



    *= Actually, I see it as a 2D grid. Can't wrap my head around 3-dimensional politics just yet.

    **= Yes, I know, people are already doing this, but I want to remain hopeful, okay?

    See, I can't stand the kind of hang-wringing certain tragedies always seem to bring out.

    We damn well SHOULD be discussing the political background and implications of this tragedy.

  • mxmarksmxmarks Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I just read that the poor 9 year old is the daughter of a Major League Baseball player. Wow.

    Its going to be a very interestiing week. When things of this magnitutde happen on weekends it gives everyone the chance to sit and really plan out what they want to say about it, as the media doesn't give two shits really until Monday morning.

    It's one of those things where, even if Palin/Beck/ect didn't have a thing to do with this guys motivations, people will still be ASKING them about it. And whatever the response they have is - that's whats going to end up being the big focus.

    I mean, the potential to give a response that totally screws you is enormous here. They will need to pick their responses VERY carefully.

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  • ForarForar #432 Already prepping for Toronto Fan Expo!Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Geez, that woman is like Batman.

    Thing about these stories is that no matter how horrific they are they almost always involve more heroes than villans.

    That woman saved countless lives with one act of bravery. Grievous as the loss of (at least) 6 people is, that woman (and the men who followed up with tackling him, and the staff who began immediate first aid to the injured, etc) are all heroes, and deserve to be recognized as such.

    sigtwo.png
  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Harrisonburg, VARegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    marks: Nah, they'll say "horrible tragedy how dare you try to exploit this for political gain", and nobody will have the guts to press them, as always.

  • IncenjucarIncenjucar QA Tester -> Game Producer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    There are "moderate" extremists. The notion that only the far left and far right have crazy doesn't really hold up in practice.

    Any political idea or system can be taken too far by using it to justify abhorrent behavior without the idea itself coming from wacky land. The issue here is that people are getting caught up in primitive warrior bullshit instead of open and honest discussion and rational voting practices, spurred on by people who incite blind passion rather than well-considered reason to get and maintain power for themselves.

    freefallagentad_zps635a83ed.png
  • mxmarksmxmarks Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I misspoke - it was the granddaughter of Dallas Green, former manager of the Phillies.

    And I'm hoping SOMEONE has the guts to press them. I mean, the rhetoric has gotten so bizarrely blatant and specific that it isn't even really a press anymore to ask about it. It's not like any reporter even has to say "So when you were saying that, you really were beating around the bush but we all know you meant this" and then they can say "heavens no! You misunderstood!"

    This is literally "So when you put crosshairs over her and said 'reload', and said she needed to be 'taken out', do you regret that?"

    I mean the thing that bothers me more than anything in the world about all this - is if you or I had made that crosshairs graphic, we'd be under arrest right now.

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  • MyDcmbrMyDcmbr Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I wonder if Congress will end up approving a Security stipend for it's members to hiring personal security people.

    Even if they don't, I know my Rep. will be well protected after this, given that he was the Sheriff in the county North of me before being given nomination by the previous sitting Rep.

    Steam
    So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.
  • Senor MushroomSenor Mushroom Registered User
    edited January 2011
    syndalis wrote: »

    Holy crap. I had Professor Phobos for Business Calculus. I had no idea. I guess it explains the looks he kept giving Frank, the class blindy.

    So anyway, I tire of the political connections to this at this point, that is, specifically whether he was influenced by Palin or any other big political figure -- I am glad, however, that it is making people realize the ridiculous hate speech that has been going on over the past few elections, especially here. Tucson is actually a lovely place to live. If you could take away the people.
    The troubling thing is that when you start looking at the hate speech in politics, it really is one-sided. I have been trying to find examples of democratic candidates saying things like "I have the opponent in my sights" or "second amendment remedies" if their voices aren't heard, and I don't see it outside of small, non-influential groups on the fringe (like PETA).

    To decry the hate speech demands examples of it, and right now all of the examples are from one party.

    Also, let's say this guy is not a tea party guy, or a birther, or even a registered republican. He is clearly someone easily influenced by bullshit (his belief in text pattern mind-control is proof of that), and people like this are easily swayed by statements like the kind that have been flying out of the right recently to do horrible things.

    The bible doesn't make people killers. The bible gives justification to unstable people to kill.

    Same story.


    Edit: I don't want to see this become political ammunition. I really don't. But what I do want to see is someone on the right who is big in the party (like Boehner) step forward and admit that his own party needs to turn the dial down a bit when it comes to their current language posturing. "Job Killing" is a really unfair way to posture something, and moreso, language like that can lead desperate people to do desperate things. Just stop it.[/QUOTE]


    Examples you requested:

    Barack Obama's 'THey bring a knife, we bring a gun" http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/06/14/obama-if-they-bring-a-knife-to-the-fight-we-bring-a-gun/

    DLC and DCCC maps using "palin-style" bullseye targets on targeted officials (Daily KOS also had a map almost identical to Palin's placing a "bullseye" on Gabby Giffords, and other, mostly moderate, congressmen, for "targeting"
    http://www.verumserum.com/?p=13647

    Keith Oblmermann implies violence against Hillary Clinton
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/25/keith-olbermanns-idea-for_n_98557.html

    I could go on...

    The fact is, "reload," target," "bullseye," "eliminate," etc, are all commonly used terms across our society in sports, daily conversation, and yes, politics. You can make the argument that this is unhealthy, or contributes to things like what happened yesterday, but to intimate the right has anything close to a Monopoly on it is simply not intellectually honest or accurate.

    "Video Games hurt children? Thats what they said about rock and roll."
  • MyDcmbrMyDcmbr Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    mxmarks wrote: »
    I misspoke - it was the granddaughter of Dallas Green, former manager of the Phillies.

    And I'm hoping SOMEONE has the guts to press them. I mean, the rhetoric has gotten so bizarrely blatant and specific that it isn't even really a press anymore to ask about it. It's not like any reporter even has to say "So when you were saying that, you really were beating around the bush but we all know you meant this" and then they can say "heavens no! You misunderstood!"

    This is literally "So when you put crosshairs over her and said 'reload', and said she needed to be 'taken out', do you regret that?"

    I mean the thing that bothers me more than anything in the world about all this - is if you or I had made that crosshairs graphic, we'd be under arrest right now.

    Under arrest now?

    Try under arrest within 24hours of putting that out on the Internet.

    Steam
    So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I am a lot more interested in hearing what this kid has to say for himself than I am hearing talking heads prognosticate about it.

    He's the only one who knows why he did this.

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  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Registered User regular
    edited January 2011

    The fact is, "reload," target," "bullseye," "eliminate," etc, are all commonly used terms across our society in sports, daily conversation, and yes, politics. You can make the argument that this is unhealthy, or contributes to things like what happened yesterday, but to intimate the right has anything close to a Monopoly on it is simply not intellectually honest or accurate.

    How is this for intellectually honest and accurate then- The right owns the lion's share of divisive and exterminationist rhetoric in this country. To the point that it was commonly found as part of their campaign platforms and slogans.

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