Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

i have an infection in my butt, a game design infection

145791035

Posts

  • bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    bsjezz wrote: »
    Melding wrote: »
    I get emotionally attached to things easily, it always strikes me as odd when i feel no connection to characters in games.

    I once felt bad that one of my plastic forks broke, but yet Alyx laid dying and i was hard pressed to care.

    don't feel bad. half-life 2 is a game without a protagonist. as drama it is intensely, immediately compromised by the bizzare black void of gordan freeman at its heart.

    god what

    what is this

    the truth, son

    sig_zps00ca6d07.jpg
  • DarricDarric Santa MonicaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    That is a really weird stance.

  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    bsjezz wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    bsjezz wrote: »
    Melding wrote: »
    I get emotionally attached to things easily, it always strikes me as odd when i feel no connection to characters in games.

    I once felt bad that one of my plastic forks broke, but yet Alyx laid dying and i was hard pressed to care.

    don't feel bad. half-life 2 is a game without a protagonist. as drama it is intensely, immediately compromised by the bizzare black void of gordan freeman at its heart.

    god what

    what is this

    the truth, son

    that you don't get perspective-based character development?

    STEAM
    Spoiler:
  • bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    bsjezz wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    bsjezz wrote: »
    Melding wrote: »
    I get emotionally attached to things easily, it always strikes me as odd when i feel no connection to characters in games.

    I once felt bad that one of my plastic forks broke, but yet Alyx laid dying and i was hard pressed to care.

    don't feel bad. half-life 2 is a game without a protagonist. as drama it is intensely, immediately compromised by the bizzare black void of gordan freeman at its heart.

    god what

    what is this

    the truth, son

    that you don't get perspective character development?

    if 'perspective character development' was a real thing i think i'd probably get it

    sig_zps00ca6d07.jpg
  • EdcrabEdcrab Registered User
    edited January 2011
    And also cannot spell

    cBY55.gifbmJsl.png
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2011
    Darric wrote: »
    Darric wrote: »

    I didn't say offended. It just seems a little naïve unless you base your definition of art around precluding the possibility - but seriously, I fucking hate this whole argument, so I'm not expecting a response, and that's the last I'll say on it myself.

    well, no. it's just really hard to make intelligent agents.

    Goddammit now I am responding, but yes, yeah. Yeah, exactly.

    But I mean, when we were vaguely alluding to all this, the timeframe we were talking about was a century. I'm not saying that's enough, or nearly enough, I have no real idea - all I was trying to imply was that it's incredibly hard to tell with these things.

    Similarly but separately, I also just don't like the occasional gross misunderstanding that machine intelligence needs be a "less sophisticated" form of intelligence than ours, incapable of art. But yeah, it's a pretty terrible discussion to have either way.

    Video games.

    it doesn't need to be a less sophisticated form of intelligence, it is a less sophisticated form of intelligence. and unless you're ray kurtzweil you understand that there are practical limits to technology and 'true ai' is something of a pipe dream. it's not productive to assume that we'll develop AI unless you're writing science fiction, and the discussion as a whole is essentially meaningless for that reason.

  • DrIanMalcolmDrIanMalcolm Does somebody go out into the park and pull up the dinosaurs' skirts?Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    My favorite menu for a videogame is still the one in the first Medal of Honor

    dfd58e54-76e3-4cca-a87e-8fabd8a8c8eb_zpscb3d0a8b.jpg
  • FearghaillFearghaill Midgard I hear some secret agents only get cars.Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    See people, this is what happens when you praise a writer's writing.

    We voted for bsjezz in the forum battle, and now he has the courage to wear his beret outside the Writer's Block.
    Spoiler:

    lokisig.png
  • FishmanFishman I find your lack of Hail Hydra! disturbingRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    So, are any other programmers bothered by the uneven number of []'s in the thread title?

    X-Com LP Thread I, II, III, IV, V
    That's unbelievably cool. Your new name is cool guy. Let's have sex.
  • DarricDarric Santa MonicaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Darric wrote: »
    Darric wrote: »

    I didn't say offended. It just seems a little naïve unless you base your definition of art around precluding the possibility - but seriously, I fucking hate this whole argument, so I'm not expecting a response, and that's the last I'll say on it myself.

    well, no. it's just really hard to make intelligent agents.

    Goddammit now I am responding, but yes, yeah. Yeah, exactly.

    But I mean, when we were vaguely alluding to all this, the timeframe we were talking about was a century. I'm not saying that's enough, or nearly enough, I have no real idea - all I was trying to imply was that it's incredibly hard to tell with these things.

    Similarly but separately, I also just don't like the occasional gross misunderstanding that machine intelligence needs be a "less sophisticated" form of intelligence than ours, incapable of art. But yeah, it's a pretty terrible discussion to have either way.

    Video games.

    it doesn't need to be a less sophisticated form of intelligence, it is a less sophisticated form of intelligence. and unless you're ray kurtzweil you understand that there are practical limits to technology and 'true ai' is something of a pipe dream. it's not productive to assume that we'll develop AI unless you're writing science fiction, and the discussion as a whole is essentially meaningless for that reason.

    I'll absolutely agree that it's completely irrelevant to the topic of this thread, so I am sorry for going down that road. I do think it's pretty bizarre to believe there's any physical construct that can't one day be artificially created. Regardless, I'm going to duck out of the argument rather than contend the rest of the paragraph (and derail the thread further), except to say that I strongly disagree.

  • BedlamBedlam Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Fearghaill wrote: »
    See people, this is what happens when you praise a writer's writing.

    We voted for bsjezz in the forum battle, and now he has the courage to wear his beret outside the Writer's Block.
    Spoiler:
    except for all the bird fucking

  • Romanian My EscutcheonRomanian My Escutcheon Two of Forks Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Fearghaill wrote: »
    See people, this is what happens when you praise a writer's writing.

    We voted for bsjezz in the forum battle, and now he has the courage to wear his beret outside the Writer's Block.
    Spoiler:

    Isn't jezz a girl?

    Also, if I can jump into the story immersion conversation, I've never really felt that connected to a story.

    The closest things I can think of are having to choose who to resurrect at the end of Fable II and choosing which party member dies in Mass Effect.

    But I'm not sure whether that was a connection, or just feeling like a dick.

    2cf4m6f.gif
  • ASimPersonASimPerson And they will tremble again at the sound of our silence!Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Fishman wrote: »
    So, are any other programmers bothered by the uneven number of []'s in the thread title?

    Just a little. I'd be more bothered if it were parenthesis or curly braces.

    redoctober2.png
    SE++ Forum Battle Archive | PST = Pacific Standard Time | DRUNKSTUCK: A Homestuck recap
  • DarricDarric Santa MonicaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Also, if I can jump into the story immersion conversation, I've never really felt that connected to a story.

    The closest things I can think of is having to choose who to resurrect at the end of Fable II, and choosing whether or not to kill off Kaidan or Ashley in Mass Effect.

    But I'm not sure whether that was a connection, or just feeling like a dick.

    Play Ico. Play Shadow of the Colossus. Play Planescape: Torment.

  • MrMonroeMrMonroe Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Spoiler:

    I have spoiled the quote tree for people who are DUMB and haven't played the original Mass Effect yet

  • Calamity JaneCalamity Jane That Wrong Love Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    spoiling stuff, son of a gun

  • MeldingMelding Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    ASimPerson wrote: »
    Fishman wrote: »
    So, are any other programmers bothered by the uneven number of []'s in the thread title?

    Just a little. I'd be more bothered if it were parenthesis or curly braces.

    a little bit. My first response in my head was about the title never compiling.

  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2011
  • NotASenatorNotASenator Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Fishman wrote: »
    So, are any other programmers bothered by the uneven number of []'s in the thread title?

    God I love you.

  • PharezonPharezon Struggle is an illusion. Victory is in the Qun.Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    vsove wrote: »
    I will say that I felt more emotional attachment to several of STALKER's 30-40 line NPCs than I did to entire characters in some other games I've played. I think it was because the world felt so immersive that the characters automatically felt far more real themselves, even if they only had a few things to say to me. And it also probably helped that nearly everything in that world wanted to kill me, except for several dozen Stalkers scattered about the world.

    Sitting around a campfire as the void beyond the light howls with terrible, radiated beasts. Then a stalker pulls out a guitar and everything gets better. The next day your get crushed by an anomaly. Praise be the Zone.

    jkZziGc.png
  • Romanian My EscutcheonRomanian My Escutcheon Two of Forks Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Darric wrote: »
    Also, if I can jump into the story immersion conversation, I've never really felt that connected to a story.

    The closest things I can think of is having to choose who to resurrect at the end of Fable II, and choosing whether or not to kill off Kaidan or Ashley in Mass Effect.

    But I'm not sure whether that was a connection, or just feeling like a dick.

    Play Ico. Play Shadow of the Colossus. Play Planescape: Torment.

    I can't speak for Ico or Torment, but I can't see it in SotC.

    Well, maybe if you're talking about the horse.

    2cf4m6f.gif
  • bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Fearghaill wrote: »
    See people, this is what happens when you praise a writer's writing.

    We voted for bsjezz in the forum battle, and now he has the courage to wear his beret outside the Writer's Block.
    Spoiler:

    :^:

    nah i always wore my beret. maybe just now because of my cool stories a few more people read past "but what I think about CONTENTIOUS TOPIC is ..."

    sig_zps00ca6d07.jpg
  • ZonugalZonugal Freelance Bio-Exorcist Adam Maitland's Model TownRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    In my experience a good plot/story will always trump player immersion.

    Beetlejuice_sig.jpg
  • EdcrabEdcrab Registered User
    edited January 2011
    bsjezz wrote: »
    Fearghaill wrote: »
    See people, this is what happens when you praise a writer's writing.

    We voted for bsjezz in the forum battle, and now he has the courage to wear his beret outside the Writer's Block.
    Spoiler:

    :^:

    nah i always wore my beret. maybe just now because of my cool stories a few more people read past "but what I think about CONTENTIOUS TOPIC is ..."

    You are a filthy pawn of the beret establishment

    Crushing wizards and robots underfoot

    cBY55.gifbmJsl.png
  • MeldingMelding Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    confession: i did it to fuck with you

    You bastard.

  • Romanian My EscutcheonRomanian My Escutcheon Two of Forks Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Zonugal wrote: »
    In my experience a good plot/story will always trump player immersion.

    This.

    KotOR's story pretty much crushed the attempt at immersion through choice.

    2cf4m6f.gif
  • DarricDarric Santa MonicaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Darric wrote: »
    Also, if I can jump into the story immersion conversation, I've never really felt that connected to a story.

    The closest things I can think of is having to choose who to resurrect at the end of Fable II, and choosing whether or not to kill off Kaidan or Ashley in Mass Effect.

    But I'm not sure whether that was a connection, or just feeling like a dick.

    Play Ico. Play Shadow of the Colossus. Play Planescape: Torment.

    I can't speak for Ico or Torment, but how I can't see it in SotC.

    Well, maybe if you're talking about the horse.

    Now leave.

  • Romanian My EscutcheonRomanian My Escutcheon Two of Forks Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Darric wrote: »
    Darric wrote: »
    Also, if I can jump into the story immersion conversation, I've never really felt that connected to a story.

    The closest things I can think of is having to choose who to resurrect at the end of Fable II, and choosing whether or not to kill off Kaidan or Ashley in Mass Effect.

    But I'm not sure whether that was a connection, or just feeling like a dick.

    Play Ico. Play Shadow of the Colossus. Play Planescape: Torment.

    I can't speak for Ico or Torment, but how I can't see it in SotC.

    Well, maybe if you're talking about the horse.

    Now leave.

    No, I'm really curious about how you see player immersion in SotC.

    Mind explaining?

    2cf4m6f.gif
  • bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Zonugal wrote: »
    In my experience a good plot/story will always trump player immersion.

    absolutely. i think immersion can very effectively be used to support narrative, but too often you see it being the focus and it absolutely annihilates the effectiveness of the story itself

    sig_zps00ca6d07.jpg
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2011
    woop. my laptop was so broken i voided the warranty, i guess. that's what i get for taking a laptop around with me.

    time to save for a desktop

  • bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    orikae i wrote a companion-piece style review of new vegas and red dead redemption for a query about a contributor gig

    i do enjoy writing about games. maybe i should make a thing of it.

    sig_zps00ca6d07.jpg
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2011
    you should. it's fun.

    i'd like to contribute to kill screen and the escapist but i don't lead an interesting enough life to write for those people

  • MeldingMelding Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I'm working on a proposal for the escapist. I call it "why everything people like sucks"

  • RaekiRaeki Registered User
    edited January 2011
    make a game where people write their own stories and call it word.

  • bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Raeki wrote: »
    make a game where people write their own stories and call it word.

    best game EVER

    sig_zps00ca6d07.jpg
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal Flo-ridaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    this thread title was written in objective-c

  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2011
  • SoaLSoaL fantastic Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    SoaL wrote: »
    Melding wrote: »
    a roguelike game in 3d would be cool, wonder why it doesn't happen too much. probably a ton of work. I remember Nosferatu did something like that, but there would be a problem that the key necessary to open door X was on the other side of door X leaving the game unbeatable.

    I think a lot of it is that with tile graphics you let the player imagine most of the stuff that is going on. Modeling every single thing in a randomly generated dungeon and making all the monsters move and interact nicely with all the other models would take a huge amount of time and money. Time and money they could use to make more content in other areas that people play roguelikes for

    A dungeon crawler with randomly generated dungeons wouldn't be tremendously difficult in the sense that you could create rooms as static meshes with "connector" points that make sure that doors line up or whatever. Then you could randomly spawn items and weapons and monsters in different rooms and have people explore.

    You couldn't guarantee any sort of natural progression of gameplay or difficulty (unless you scaled the spawning of things to how much of the dungeon you explored - but still, certain set pieces might show up at weird times), but it could have the potential to be sort of like a 3D game of Betrayal at the House on the Hill.

    oh you could definitely make assets for the rooms or whatever

    I'm just saying that modeling and animating every single monster and making all of your actions (and there are oodles of actions you can perform in roguelikes) be animated would be a heck of a lot of work for not that much gain


    e: but I am in love with the idea of randomly generated levels and I think that levels that don't have a clear progression from easy to hard are very interesting and not very "gamey"

    DKFA7.gif
  • SoaLSoaL fantastic Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    also I am really excited for my courses this semester because most of the profs are really cool people and they organized a game-dev pub night at a bar by campus

    and they are all very neat

    did i mention they are neat

    they are!

    DKFA7.gif
  • Blake TBlake T Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Oh guys do you remember a series of games in the late 90s called commado or something it was set in ww2 and you had a team of around five and you had to accomplish specific objectives like bomb a dam or something.

    I was terrible at it but I really want to load it up onto my netbook and play it.

145791035
Sign In or Register to comment.