i have an infection in my butt, a game design infection

bsjezz

PiptheFair wrote: »

bsjezz wrote: »

Melding wrote: »

I get emotionally attached to things easily, it always strikes me as odd when i feel no connection to characters in games.

I once felt bad that one of my plastic forks broke, but yet Alyx laid dying and i was hard pressed to care.

don't feel bad. half-life 2 is a game without a protagonist. as drama it is intensely, immediately compromised by the bizzare black void of gordan freeman at its heart.

god what

what is this

the truth, son

Darric

That is a really weird stance.

PiptheFair

bsjezz wrote: »

PiptheFair wrote: »

bsjezz wrote: »

Melding wrote: »

I get emotionally attached to things easily, it always strikes me as odd when i feel no connection to characters in games.

I once felt bad that one of my plastic forks broke, but yet Alyx laid dying and i was hard pressed to care.

don't feel bad. half-life 2 is a game without a protagonist. as drama it is intensely, immediately compromised by the bizzare black void of gordan freeman at its heart.

god what

what is this

the truth, son

that you don't get perspective-based character development?

bsjezz

PiptheFair wrote: »

bsjezz wrote: »

PiptheFair wrote: »

bsjezz wrote: »

Melding wrote: »

I get emotionally attached to things easily, it always strikes me as odd when i feel no connection to characters in games.

I once felt bad that one of my plastic forks broke, but yet Alyx laid dying and i was hard pressed to care.

don't feel bad. half-life 2 is a game without a protagonist. as drama it is intensely, immediately compromised by the bizzare black void of gordan freeman at its heart.

god what

what is this

the truth, son

that you don't get perspective character development?

if 'perspective character development' was a real thing i think i'd probably get it

Edcrab

And also cannot spell

Orikaeshigitae

Darric wrote: »

Orikaeshigitae wrote: »

Darric wrote: »

I didn't say offended. It just seems a little naïve unless you base your definition of art around precluding the possibility - but seriously, I fucking hate this whole argument, so I'm not expecting a response, and that's the last I'll say on it myself.

well, no. it's just really hard to make intelligent agents.

Goddammit now I am responding, but yes, yeah. Yeah, exactly.

But I mean, when we were vaguely alluding to all this, the timeframe we were talking about was a century. I'm not saying that's enough, or nearly enough, I have no real idea - all I was trying to imply was that it's incredibly hard to tell with these things.

Similarly but separately, I also just don't like the occasional gross misunderstanding that machine intelligence needs be a "less sophisticated" form of intelligence than ours, incapable of art. But yeah, it's a pretty terrible discussion to have either way.

Video games.

it doesn't need to be a less sophisticated form of intelligence, it is a less sophisticated form of intelligence. and unless you're ray kurtzweil you understand that there are practical limits to technology and 'true ai' is something of a pipe dream. it's not productive to assume that we'll develop AI unless you're writing science fiction, and the discussion as a whole is essentially meaningless for that reason.

DrIanMalcolm

My favorite menu for a videogame is still the one in the first Medal of Honor

Fearghaill

See people, this is what happens when you praise a writer's writing.

We voted for bsjezz in the forum battle, and now he has the courage to wear his beret outside the Writer's Block.

Spoiler:

<3 jezz

Fishman

So, are any other programmers bothered by the uneven number of []'s in the thread title?

Darric

Orikaeshigitae wrote: »

Darric wrote: »

Orikaeshigitae wrote: »

Darric wrote: »

I didn't say offended. It just seems a little naïve unless you base your definition of art around precluding the possibility - but seriously, I fucking hate this whole argument, so I'm not expecting a response, and that's the last I'll say on it myself.

well, no. it's just really hard to make intelligent agents.

Goddammit now I am responding, but yes, yeah. Yeah, exactly.

But I mean, when we were vaguely alluding to all this, the timeframe we were talking about was a century. I'm not saying that's enough, or nearly enough, I have no real idea - all I was trying to imply was that it's incredibly hard to tell with these things.

Similarly but separately, I also just don't like the occasional gross misunderstanding that machine intelligence needs be a "less sophisticated" form of intelligence than ours, incapable of art. But yeah, it's a pretty terrible discussion to have either way.

Video games.

it doesn't need to be a less sophisticated form of intelligence, it is a less sophisticated form of intelligence. and unless you're ray kurtzweil you understand that there are practical limits to technology and 'true ai' is something of a pipe dream. it's not productive to assume that we'll develop AI unless you're writing science fiction, and the discussion as a whole is essentially meaningless for that reason.

I'll absolutely agree that it's completely irrelevant to the topic of this thread, so I am sorry for going down that road. I do think it's pretty bizarre to believe there's any physical construct that can't one day be artificially created. Regardless, I'm going to duck out of the argument rather than contend the rest of the paragraph (and derail the thread further), except to say that I strongly disagree.

Bedlam

Fearghaill wrote: »

See people, this is what happens when you praise a writer's writing.

We voted for bsjezz in the forum battle, and now he has the courage to wear his beret outside the Writer's Block.

Spoiler:

<3 jezz

except for all the bird fucking

Romanian My Escutcheon

Fearghaill wrote: »

See people, this is what happens when you praise a writer's writing.

We voted for bsjezz in the forum battle, and now he has the courage to wear his beret outside the Writer's Block.

Spoiler:

<3 jezz

Isn't jezz a girl?

Also, if I can jump into the story immersion conversation, I've never really felt that connected to a story.

The closest things I can think of are having to choose who to resurrect at the end of Fable II and choosing which party member dies in Mass Effect.

But I'm not sure whether that was a connection, or just feeling like a dick.

ASimPerson

Fishman wrote: »

So, are any other programmers bothered by the uneven number of []'s in the thread title?

Just a little. I'd be more bothered if it were parenthesis or curly braces.

Darric

Romanian My Escutcheon, Doxy wrote: »

Also, if I can jump into the story immersion conversation, I've never really felt that connected to a story.

The closest things I can think of is having to choose who to resurrect at the end of Fable II, and choosing whether or not to kill off Kaidan or Ashley in Mass Effect.

But I'm not sure whether that was a connection, or just feeling like a dick.

Play Ico. Play Shadow of the Colossus. Play Planescape: Torment.

MrMonroe

Spoiler:

Romanian My Escutcheon, Doxy wrote: »

Fearghaill wrote: »

See people, this is what happens when you praise a writer's writing.

We voted for bsjezz in the forum battle, and now he has the courage to wear his beret outside the Writer's Block.

Spoiler:

<3 jezz

Isn't jezz a girl?

Also, if I can jump into the story immersion conversation, I've never really felt that connected to a story.

The closest things I can think of are having to choose who to resurrect at the end of Fable II and choosing which party member dies in Mass Effect.

But I'm not sure whether that was a connection, or just feeling like a dick.

the Ashley/Kaiden choice should have had an invisible timer on it, with no warning

if you don't choose fast enough, both of them die

I have spoiled the quote tree for people who are DUMB and haven't played the original Mass Effect yet

Anjin-San

spoiling stuff, son of a gun

Melding

ASimPerson wrote: »

Fishman wrote: »

So, are any other programmers bothered by the uneven number of []'s in the thread title?

Just a little. I'd be more bothered if it were parenthesis or curly braces.

a little bit. My first response in my head was about the title never compiling.

Orikaeshigitae

confession: i did it to fuck with you

NotASenator

Fishman wrote: »

So, are any other programmers bothered by the uneven number of []'s in the thread title?

God I love you.

Pharezon

vsove wrote: »

I will say that I felt more emotional attachment to several of STALKER's 30-40 line NPCs than I did to entire characters in some other games I've played. I think it was because the world felt so immersive that the characters automatically felt far more real themselves, even if they only had a few things to say to me. And it also probably helped that nearly everything in that world wanted to kill me, except for several dozen Stalkers scattered about the world.

Sitting around a campfire as the void beyond the light howls with terrible, radiated beasts. Then a stalker pulls out a guitar and everything gets better. The next day your get crushed by an anomaly. Praise be the Zone.

Romanian My Escutcheon

Darric wrote: »

Romanian My Escutcheon, Doxy wrote: »

Also, if I can jump into the story immersion conversation, I've never really felt that connected to a story.

The closest things I can think of is having to choose who to resurrect at the end of Fable II, and choosing whether or not to kill off Kaidan or Ashley in Mass Effect.

But I'm not sure whether that was a connection, or just feeling like a dick.

Play Ico. Play Shadow of the Colossus. Play Planescape: Torment.

I can't speak for Ico or Torment, but I can't see it in SotC.

Well, maybe if you're talking about the horse.

bsjezz

Fearghaill wrote: »

See people, this is what happens when you praise a writer's writing.

We voted for bsjezz in the forum battle, and now he has the courage to wear his beret outside the Writer's Block.

Spoiler:

<3 jezz

:^:

nah i always wore my beret. maybe just now because of my cool stories a few more people read past "but what I think about CONTENTIOUS TOPIC is ..."

Zonugal

In my experience a good plot/story will always trump player immersion.

Edcrab

bsjezz wrote: »

Fearghaill wrote: »

See people, this is what happens when you praise a writer's writing.

We voted for bsjezz in the forum battle, and now he has the courage to wear his beret outside the Writer's Block.

Spoiler:

<3 jezz

:^:

nah i always wore my beret. maybe just now because of my cool stories a few more people read past "but what I think about CONTENTIOUS TOPIC is ..."

You are a filthy pawn of the beret establishment

Crushing wizards and robots underfoot

Melding

Orikaeshigitae wrote: »

confession: i did it to fuck with you

You bastard.

Romanian My Escutcheon

Zonugal wrote: »

In my experience a good plot/story will always trump player immersion.

This.

KotOR's story pretty much crushed the attempt at immersion through choice.

Darric

Romanian My Escutcheon, Doxy wrote: »

Darric wrote: »

Romanian My Escutcheon, Doxy wrote: »

Also, if I can jump into the story immersion conversation, I've never really felt that connected to a story.

The closest things I can think of is having to choose who to resurrect at the end of Fable II, and choosing whether or not to kill off Kaidan or Ashley in Mass Effect.

But I'm not sure whether that was a connection, or just feeling like a dick.

Play Ico. Play Shadow of the Colossus. Play Planescape: Torment.

I can't speak for Ico or Torment, but how I can't see it in SotC.

Well, maybe if you're talking about the horse.

Now leave.

Romanian My Escutcheon

Darric wrote: »

Romanian My Escutcheon, Doxy wrote: »

Darric wrote: »

Romanian My Escutcheon, Doxy wrote: »

Also, if I can jump into the story immersion conversation, I've never really felt that connected to a story.

The closest things I can think of is having to choose who to resurrect at the end of Fable II, and choosing whether or not to kill off Kaidan or Ashley in Mass Effect.

But I'm not sure whether that was a connection, or just feeling like a dick.

Play Ico. Play Shadow of the Colossus. Play Planescape: Torment.

I can't speak for Ico or Torment, but how I can't see it in SotC.

Well, maybe if you're talking about the horse.

Now leave.

No, I'm really curious about how you see player immersion in SotC.

Mind explaining?

bsjezz

Zonugal wrote: »

In my experience a good plot/story will always trump player immersion.

absolutely. i think immersion can very effectively be used to support narrative, but too often you see it being the focus and it absolutely annihilates the effectiveness of the story itself

Orikaeshigitae

woop. my laptop was so broken i voided the warranty, i guess. that's what i get for taking a laptop around with me.

time to save for a desktop

bsjezz

orikae i wrote a companion-piece style review of new vegas and red dead redemption for a query about a contributor gig

i do enjoy writing about games. maybe i should make a thing of it.

Orikaeshigitae

you should. it's fun.

i'd like to contribute to kill screen and the escapist but i don't lead an interesting enough life to write for those people

Melding

I'm working on a proposal for the escapist. I call it "why everything people like sucks"

Raeki

make a game where people write their own stories and call it word.

bsjezz

Raeki wrote: »

make a game where people write their own stories and call it word.

best game EVER

Jasconius

this thread title was written in objective-c

Orikaeshigitae

this game is really neat.

http://echobazaar.failbettergames.com/c/612693

you should try it.

SoaL

NotASenator wrote: »

SoaL wrote: »

Melding wrote: »

a roguelike game in 3d would be cool, wonder why it doesn't happen too much. probably a ton of work. I remember Nosferatu did something like that, but there would be a problem that the key necessary to open door X was on the other side of door X leaving the game unbeatable.

I think a lot of it is that with tile graphics you let the player imagine most of the stuff that is going on. Modeling every single thing in a randomly generated dungeon and making all the monsters move and interact nicely with all the other models would take a huge amount of time and money. Time and money they could use to make more content in other areas that people play roguelikes for

A dungeon crawler with randomly generated dungeons wouldn't be tremendously difficult in the sense that you could create rooms as static meshes with "connector" points that make sure that doors line up or whatever. Then you could randomly spawn items and weapons and monsters in different rooms and have people explore.

You couldn't guarantee any sort of natural progression of gameplay or difficulty (unless you scaled the spawning of things to how much of the dungeon you explored - but still, certain set pieces might show up at weird times), but it could have the potential to be sort of like a 3D game of Betrayal at the House on the Hill.

oh you could definitely make assets for the rooms or whatever

I'm just saying that modeling and animating every single monster and making all of your actions (and there are oodles of actions you can perform in roguelikes) be animated would be a heck of a lot of work for not that much gain


e: but I am in love with the idea of randomly generated levels and I think that levels that don't have a clear progression from easy to hard are very interesting and not very "gamey"

SoaL

also I am really excited for my courses this semester because most of the profs are really cool people and they organized a game-dev pub night at a bar by campus

and they are all very neat

did i mention they are neat

they are!

Blake T

Oh guys do you remember a series of games in the late 90s called commado or something it was set in ww2 and you had a team of around five and you had to accomplish specific objectives like bomb a dam or something.

I was terrible at it but I really want to load it up onto my netbook and play it.