Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

[FRINGE] Reality be fragmenting at the seams

1202123252629

Posts

  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    I think you mean Broyles?

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo When life gives you lemons... ...eat your delicious lemonsRegistered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Yes, yes I do.

    What is the name of the scarred badguy? Johns?

    His backstory is that he was in prison and used parts of Walther's brain to construct a teleporter to escape, right?

    Mojo_Jojo on
    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
  • DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    This show is making it hard to invest in it. They need to shut the door on peter "going home" soon. I get the impression that those universes do not exist anymore. They were "overwritten" by these new ones. Peter not knowing that and depserately clinging to going back makes sense and works well for his character. But I do not think its smart to have the viewer clinging to the same hopes. The viewer needs to be told that this new universe is the one they should care about.

    Otherwise, all Peter's "this isn't my fight, why should I care aboht this?" can be directly applied to the view too. I mean, both these universe could explode, and if peter ended up waking up next to Olivia in "our verse #1" the viewer would be fine. This doesn't bode well for the show. The viewer needs to care about these people and their conflict.

    The only way this works well for me is if the shapeshifters are actually from a 5th dimension. Dimensions 3 and 4 get destroyed by 5 and then peter goes back to 1 and 2 trying to warn/prepare them for 5.

    Otherwise the show needs to let us know that all we have is 3 and 4, and to forget about 1 and 2.

    616610-1.png
  • ED!ED! Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Mojo_Jojo wrote:
    Yes, yes I do.

    What is the name of the scarred badguy? Johns?

    His backstory is that he was in prison and used parts of Walther's brain to construct a teleporter to escape, right?

    Mixing people. David Robert Jones was the main antagonist of Season 1; he and his group ZFT were behind the much of the explosion in Fringe events as a means of preparing our Universe for war with Walternates Universe. He was right - in a sense - as the shifters had already penetrated to our side by then. His final goal was to cross over into the other side and kill William Bell.

    The second person was Thomas Newton, a Shapeshifter that was sent by Walternate to indeed grab pieces of Walters brain that had been left in others heads; this was done because Walter and William felt that Walters crossing to the other side was far too irresponsible and that he needed to be "tamed" in a sense I guess. I don't really remember why they needed his pieces; however his secondary goal was to assist the other sides Olivia in infiltrating Fringe division and assisting her in securing the pieces of the Doomsday Machine.

    As for the alternate universes - there's more than one of everything. Who knows that Peter was shunted back into HIS reality. And I'm pretty sure that the Nina Sharpe we see is our Nina Sharpe. The other sides Nina hasn't really been mentioned in the last season, so she may just have some run of the mill job somewhere (though its unlikely). The two computers were definitely them going high-tec on the quantum entanglement bit with the typewriters. And I don't think Broyles literally phoned his alternate; they have to use the special room where both sides coexist.

    ED! on
    "Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    I think that they're planning to somehow collapse the alternate timelines into one. Like where the events going on right now did happen with the bridge and Jones but Peter and people's memories of him are reintegrated.

  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    If we just end up with another bad guy to deal with that would work. I wouldn't like it if the first 3 seasons were wiped out for good, that's a crap ending to the viewers 'dedication'. 3 seasons of story, then everything dies without fanfare. That's worse than if takes 3 and 4 up and vanish after only a season or so. Integrating bits of them all could work, too, yeah. It be harder, though, since our version of Walternate is already filling the rat bastard quota.

    And @ED! we were talking about when Broyles called Jones to warn them Alt-Lee and Alt-Olivia were on the way and Jones said he'd be ready for them. Hence he'd phone all the other baddies too. Ignore me if I'm misunderstand what YOU were referencing...

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo When life gives you lemons... ...eat your delicious lemonsRegistered User regular
    So Alt-Astrid is just autistic then and not part robot or anything more exciting.

    Odd episode that one, it felt like it was trying to move the plot along but didn't really succeed by having a Monster of the Week that went nowhere in the middle of it.

    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Alt-Astrid's actress is pretty good at being Alt-Astrid, though. Though, you can say that about all the actors come to think of it.

    And yeah, it was a monster of the week grafted onto a plot episode that spun its wheels overall. Was ok still, just...they're going to end the season with things all screwed up still or just then getting worked out, I guess. Then get canceled! Sigh.

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo When life gives you lemons... ...eat your delicious lemonsRegistered User regular
    The acting is generally pretty solid. For example, I hate Olivia, but it's not the actress (she's entertaining when she plays Fauxlivia). The issues are in the writing and direction.

    I think we could see the series ending with a return to the original timelines, which would be such a horrible cop-out (unless it makes some kind of rift, and opens a shitload of parallel words for exploring. And then becomes Sliders).

    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    The trailer for next week's episode was so far off the fucking rails that there is no way things go back to normal after that.

    I suspect that the observers, or someone/thing more powerful are going to do some garbage collection.

    I mean...
    Spoiler:

  • DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    Whaaa, I didnt see the trailer for next week. I'll have to watch my DVR when i get home. Unless someone has a link to it online?

    616610-1.png
  • AegisAegis Registered User regular
  • Mike DangerMike Danger "Diane..." a place both wonderful and strangeRegistered User regular
    Spent about 5 hours today getting caught up, and it was worth it. Welcome to Westfield was awesome.

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    The latest episode was heartbreaking. Alt! Astrid is a really charming character. Loved Alt! Olivia, too. How they developed her relationship with Walter was great.

    edit: This comment was for "Making Angels".

    Harry Dresden on
  • TheBigEasyTheBigEasy Registered User regular
    Wow ... "Welcome to Westfield" was something else.
    Spoiler:

  • Mike DangerMike Danger "Diane..." a place both wonderful and strangeRegistered User regular
    TheBigEasy wrote:
    Wow ... "Welcome to Westfield" was something else.
    Spoiler:
    Spoiler:

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote:
    Alt-Astrid's actress is pretty good at being Alt-Astrid, though. Though, you can say that about all the actors come to think of it.

    And yeah, it was a monster of the week grafted onto a plot episode that spun its wheels overall. Was ok still, just...they're going to end the season with things all screwed up still or just then getting worked out, I guess. Then get canceled! Sigh.

    She based Alt! Astrid's personality on her sister which has Aspbergers.

  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    If the timelines are merging it should be affecting everyone, not just Olivia. It should be pretty damn obvious if that was happening, so unless it's a delayed thing for some reason with the rest of the world it's not going to. Which leads me to think they may try and give us our Olivia back with a merge and keep everything else. Which would kind of suck. But they've spent so much time on these universes now it's also hard to buy they'll erase them too. Walter take 3 is clearly attached to Peter etc etc.

    Why did no one immediately ask "What's in the Other Side's version?" when everyone was "Why this nowhere town?". Assuming Jones isn't stupid/they didn't miss anything on their side, that leaves A)The target was on Universe D's side or B)It was a test run. B seems too boring. Ergo, A!

    So, yeah, good episode that opened up a lot of questions.

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    edit: double post

    Zek on
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Walter seems to be reverting back to his original self too, I thought they made that pretty clear.

    I think that Peter never went to a different timeline to begin with. He was erased and history was rewritten as a result, just like we thought in the first place. My guess is that his return was an anomaly that is starting to unravel the change the Observers wanted, and his presence is awakening Olivia and Walter's original selves as well. I doubt that the whole original world will return though, I imagine that ship has sailed.

    Zek on
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    Eh, it's not clear if Walter is pulling an Olivia or is just naturally changing his tune because Peter is around. He didn't say or do anything strictly from Walter #1 as far as we know like Olivia did.

    If Peter DIDN'T switch timelines he's now the biggest mass murderer ever. Oopsie. I guess they really wanted to purge "The Pattern", but this seems a little extreme.

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • AegisAegis Registered User regular
    Yea I've never really been convinced that Peter went into a "different" timeline, or rather went into Universes #3 & 4. It was always my understanding that we're still in Universes #1 & 2, but that Peter was just erased completely from it, so anything to do with Peter (memories, events, etc) have adjusted to the lack of Peter. Now that Peter's back things are going haywire (alternatively, the Observers are doing something to account for Peter back, we don't know yet). Of course, Peter doesn't know any of this and is operating under the assumption that he's in the wrong Universe. It's not a bad assumption and makes for a good plot and the eventual conflict if it turns out that this is his universe after all, just lacking him.

    But yea, enjoyed Welcome to Wakefield very much.

  • Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo When life gives you lemons... ...eat your delicious lemonsRegistered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote:

    Why did no one immediately ask "What's in the Other Side's version?" when everyone was "Why this nowhere town?". Assuming Jones isn't stupid/they didn't miss anything on their side, that leaves A)The target was on Universe D's side or B)It was a test run. B seems too boring. Ergo, A!

    This is what I wanted to know. I would have at least liked them to acknowledge the questions even if not provide answers. As it stands this seems to have been less a merging of two radically different airships and more a really bad storm that makes people crazy. Lots of squandered potential.

    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
  • Mike DangerMike Danger "Diane..." a place both wonderful and strangeRegistered User regular
    Aegis wrote:
    Yea I've never really been convinced that Peter went into a "different" timeline, or rather went into Universes #3 & 4. It was always my understanding that we're still in Universes #1 & 2, but that Peter was just erased completely from it, so anything to do with Peter (memories, events, etc) have adjusted to the lack of Peter. Now that Peter's back things are going haywire (alternatively, the Observers are doing something to account for Peter back, we don't know yet). Of course, Peter doesn't know any of this and is operating under the assumption that he's in the wrong Universe. It's not a bad assumption and makes for a good plot and the eventual conflict if it turns out that this is his universe after all, just lacking him.

    But yea, enjoyed Welcome to Wakefield very much.

  • DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    Well, isnt the difference between "Peter went to two new universes" and "Peter was erased from existing post the lake incident" just...semantics?

    I mean what IS an alternate universe other then just a scenario where things played out differently. If there are two universes, then there should be infinite. And if that's the case then universes exist where Peter was rescued but drowned.

    I guess the difference is whether or not the "old" universe exists or was replaced with the new one. Seems to me the latter is the case. I guess any universe where Peter doesn't die as a child leads to him using the machine, so he gets erased. Or, he doesnt use the machine so he never gets erased. So there is no existing universe where Peter used the machine and now everyone is just all "hey where did Peter go?"

    All that exists is Peterless universes or universes where Peter never used the machine. Either way there is no "home" for our Peter to find where Olivia and Walter are waiting for him to come back after using the machine.

    616610-1.png
  • Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo When life gives you lemons... ...eat your delicious lemonsRegistered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Disrupter wrote:
    Well, isnt the difference between "Peter went to two new universes" and "Peter was erased from existing post the lake incident" just...semantics?

    From a viewer's perspective, yes, but given that the show just has the red and blue universes (and now the alt-blue and alt-red which are both yellow) it seems like there's a distinction in the setting itself between timelines and parallel universes.

    Mojo_Jojo on
    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
  • DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    Yeah, things just get tricky when you start trying to distinquish between timelines and universes. I mean, for all the hooplah made about trying to save the universes, it does sort of appear that all the machine did is destory both universes and rewrite them with two new ones. I guess having "residue" of the old timelines helps stymie that a bit.

    Also, perhaps for some reason there only are TWO universes in Fringe. That would solve a bit of the mess. As of right now, the viewer (and Peter) sort of assume there are infinite.

    616610-1.png
  • AstaerethAstaereth Registered User regular
    The machine did not create this situation. The machine created the bridge between A and B; it was the Observers who deliberately erased Peter from the timeline. It is still unclear whether or not the two universes this season are altered A and altered B, or a C and D previously unseen; the crucial difference between "Peter is just in C and D" and "Peter is in A and B still but the timeline has changed" is that the former is what Peter currently believes and makes a return more likely.

    We assume there are infinite universes, but the show has never really addressed this, or explained why A and B are the only ones that appear to interact with each other.

    Also, regarding "Welcome to Wakefield":
    Spoiler:

    Find more of my writing at The Thieves' Den.
    Currently airing: board game reviews on Thursdays, plus Teen Wolf!
  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    Yeah i would say test run is an acceptable answer from what we know about him.

    As for the merging questions and what universe/timeline peter is in right now....While the story seems to be suggesting that yes it was a timeline rewrite and hes still in universe A and B, the fact that Jones seems to be the same Jones that came from Universe A/B into universe C/D(and who peter cut in half) disputes that . If Peter never existed in Universe C/D, and the Fringe division of C/D never encountered Jones before, then Jones must have crossed over from A/B to C/D much earlier then peter, when he got cut in half, else he would never have gotten cut in half as nobody would have been opposing him at the time.

    Check me on this, wasnt Jones working for Walternate (Universe A/B)? I seem to remember it was him that setup the first crossing over...the event with the broken bridge meeting with the real bridge from the other side ?

    steam_sig.png

  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Jones never switched timelines.

    Because without Peter in the picture they never encountered him or stopped him. He was able to cross over to the other side and setup shop without interference. So the jones around now is just this timelines one who was never stopped by Olivia and Peter

  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    Unlikely. the Jones we have been seeing has that massive scar, like he was cut in half. and when peter was talking to him in the fringe interragation room, he pretended not to know what he was talking about but it was pretty clear he did, even if he didnt know it was peter that shut the door on his face.

    steam_sig.png

  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    Oooh...heres a twist i just thought of.

    What if olivia remembers not because of the events of westfield, but because of whatever Nina is doing to her?

    steam_sig.png

  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    The scars are from healing after being teleported. Not from being cut in half. They said that. It could be a lie, but still. Jones was freaking out because Peter knew stuff about him Peter shouldn't, but that's just like each side knowing stuff about the other pre-timeline stuff. It could be anything at this point, still, but not Jones #1 still being around as he was to start with. Probably not, anyway...

    And we know it wasn't Wakefield that is making Olivia remember "Oh, you're blood is normal, didn't I mention that?" or so, and she didn't have a double in the area anyway, remember? So Nina is as good a guess as anything else. They have to going somewhere with that. This Olivia can't reality hop, either, yet.

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    The reason i think this Jones is from universe A/B is that it seems obvious that this is the same Jones from The first season of the show and olivia seemingly merging memories with the olivia from universe A/B after these events which were caused by Jones suggest that Jones has a direct connection with that universe. I dont think this is a timeline thing anymore, i think this really is universe C/D.

    steam_sig.png

  • The DeliveratorThe Deliverator Registered User regular
    azith28 wrote: »
    The reason i think this Jones is from universe A/B is that it seems obvious that this is the same Jones from The first season of the show...

    Why is it obvious? Give us something to explain why you believe this.

    It seems pretty obvious he's NOT the same Jones, if you ask me. He seemed genuinely confused and nervous when Peter started telling him things, indicating he and peter had never met before.

    camo_sig2.png
  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    No, I think he felt reasonably certain that one of his main advantages had just been lost...that they knew absolutely nothing about him in this universe, was shaking his confidence considering the situation he was in, and probably that his entire plan depended on his opposition having to start from scratch. Peter completely confused him because he probably never expected someone from his universe to be in this new one, much less working against him. He covered by lying that peter was telling him the truth.

    Why its obvious to me at least:
    1) The scar, I think he was cut in half and is alive again somehow
    2) In season one this man was working for Walternate(A/B). If in Universe C/D Walternate isnt quite the bastard we knew and loved from Universe A/B and hes really confused by the shapeshifters (and he never met jones before)then the Jones of universe C/D would never have known about alternate universes.
    3) Olivia(C/D) isnt apparently getting the memories of Fauxlivia (C/D) shes getting the memories of Olivia (A/B). since the events of westfield were merging universes, not timelines, this points to Jones trying to merge not C and D but A and C, which makes A/B a parallel universe to C/D, going on at the same time as each other, not C/D being a rewriting of the timeline of A/B else the memories of A/B olivia is getting would never have existed. Why would Jones pick Universe A instead of D unless he had some kind of connection to A/B.
    Heres a question i would have liked answered. Send a messenger to the other side (C to D) and ask if this town was just wiped off the map on that universe. if it was then this theory would be wrong, but i think olivia's memories did come from the events of westfield just not in exactly the same way. I cant think of anything nina is doing could cause her to get memories from A/B (on futher thought) so I'm back to thinking the westfield event caused the memories to return. Walter not finding anything wrong with her blood just means that she wasnt having the duplicate body parts, it doesnt mean she didnt merge mentally, probably as a result of the chemical walter put into her (in A/B at least)as a child (which i bet is the same stuff nina is putting into her now). I dont remember the chemicals name.

    steam_sig.png

  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Peter was the one who cut him in half

    In this timeline there was no peter. Jones was never cut in half. without peter the team never even knew Jones existed. So it stands to reason his original plan of teleporting out the prison, Remaking the gate device and crossing over succeeded without interference.

  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    azith28 wrote:
    Heres a question i would have liked answered. Send a messenger to the other side (C to D) and ask if this town was just wiped off the map on that universe. if it was then this theory would be wrong, but i think olivia's memories did come from the events of westfield just not in exactly the same way. I cant think of anything nina is doing could cause her to get memories from A/B (on futher thought) so I'm back to thinking the westfield event caused the memories to return. Walter not finding anything wrong with her blood just means that she wasnt having the duplicate body parts, it doesnt mean she didnt merge mentally, probably as a result of the chemical walter put into her (in A/B at least)as a child (which i bet is the same stuff nina is putting into her now). I dont remember the chemicals name.

    I missed bits of the beginning of the episode, but I'm under the impression that she had a sexy-times dream about Peter prior to going to Westfield. While she might just have been getting a little Bishop fever independent of any mental mergers ongoing, I got the impression that the dream sequence was meant to clue us into Olivia recovering alternate-timeline memories independent of whatever was going on in the town. The whole merging universe town plot just served to distract from what's going on in Olivia's head while it happened (or at least provide an obvious scapegoat reason, preventing Peter or Walter from probing more deeply as to what she's remembering until it's too late).

    I imagine it's a (pardon the pun) fringe effect of Peter's appearance in the current timeline. He was meant to be erased but, as I think one of the observers put it, bled through into the no-Peter timeline. Walter and Olivia were the only people who were aware of his existence prior to him actually reappearing, so it makes sense that, if any part of the original timeline is going to reassert itself, they would be the first ones to feel the effects. Thus we have Olivia remembering her relationship and Walter just feeling more positive toward Peter and less inclined to hide in his lab all the time. Recall that at the beginning of the season, Walter just heard occasional messages from Peter or saw him in the mirror. Olivia had dreams where she saw and interacted with him. Presumably her drug-addled brain is better at catching alternate-timeline-Peter-waves, so his timeline history is bleeding through into her memory more rapidly than it is Walter's.

    The drug was Cortexophan (or some spelling thereof).

    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Jesus, people. This thread is like a running gunbattle with stupid bullets.
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Man, what the hell is going on...that about sums it up.

    You knew there was no happy ending yet, but what...
    Spoiler:
    but still...what the hell...

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • Mike DangerMike Danger "Diane..." a place both wonderful and strangeRegistered User regular
    Spoilers for next week promo:
    Spoiler:

Sign In or Register to comment.