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Warhammer Fantasy Battles: Gesundheit; Sneeze of Mystery

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Posts

  • mugginnsmugginns Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Nice

    Don't forget a rulebook, unless you already gots one

    E26cO.jpg
  • NaxNax Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I don't, but I'm fairly sure ill be able to pickup a mini on the cheap somewhere. Don't worry, I buy my rulebooks and army books/codicies. I'm most definitely not that guy

    The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! <3 If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
  • mugginnsmugginns Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Nax wrote: »
    I don't, but I'm fairly sure ill be able to pickup a mini on the cheap somewhere. Don't worry, I buy my rulebooks and army books/codicies. I'm most definitely not that guy

    Yeah I figured :)

    The Warstore I think usually has mini-rulebooks, at least they did for the last edition. Also the hardcover is well worth it, especially if you're new to FB

    E26cO.jpg
  • NaxNax Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    What extras does it have over the mini? I'm not as interested in FB fluff like I am with 40k, so I don't think fluff alone would get me to drop the extra money on a hard cover

    The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! <3 If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
  • mugginnsmugginns Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Nax wrote: »
    What extras does it have over the mini? I'm not as interested in FB fluff like I am with 40k, so I don't think fluff alone would get me to drop the extra money on a hard cover

    Its got fluff and all that. The fluff is really, really, really great. Plus 40k really isn't just fantasy in space. Knowing all that stuff would be a good idea/

    E26cO.jpg
  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Nax wrote: »
    What extras does it have over the mini? I'm not as interested in FB fluff like I am with 40k, so I don't think fluff alone would get me to drop the extra money on a hard cover
    Ah well then. The extra stuff is mostly fluff, but it does also include basic painting and modelling tips, several tens of pages of "inspirational" (read "depressing") GD-quality painted models, and a section on narrative battles including guidelines for creating your own scenarios and some examples.
    Also; it is fucking huge and therefore makes a great impression. Especially when you throw it hard enough. :P

    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
    DropBox invite link - get 250MB extra free.
  • Alfred J. KwakAlfred J. Kwak Registered User
    edited February 2011
    Man, first I wanted to start Wood Elves and bought their Army Book and a blister with Rangers, but they're kind of, quite bad and restricted in their troop selection. Then I was thinking Skaven, got me the Army Book and a Doom Wheel - and I don't want to paint a million miniatures (2-points infantry? fuck that). But now, now I'm pretty sure, Daemons is where's it at. Plus, they look cool, are rather cheap and easy to paint (because they're all naked).

  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Man, first I wanted to start Wood Elves and bought their Army Book and a blister with Rangers, but they're kind of, quite bad and restricted in their troop selection. Then I was thinking Skaven, got me the Army Book and a Doom Wheel - and I don't want to paint a million miniatures (2-points infantry? fuck that). But now, now I'm pretty sure, Daemons is where's it at. Plus, they look cool, are rather cheap and easy to paint (because they're all naked).
    Except, ironically, the Slaaneshi ones.
    Unless you go for the previous metal daemonettes.

    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
    DropBox invite link - get 250MB extra free.
  • NaxNax Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    Nax wrote: »
    What extras does it have over the mini? I'm not as interested in FB fluff like I am with 40k, so I don't think fluff alone would get me to drop the extra money on a hard cover
    Ah well then. The extra stuff is mostly fluff, but it does also include basic painting and modelling tips, several tens of pages of "inspirational" (read "depressing") GD-quality painted models, and a section on narrative battles including guidelines for creating your own scenarios and some examples.
    Also; it is fucking huge and therefore makes a great impression. Especially when you throw it hard enough. :P

    Yeah, ill be fine with a mini :) My codex/rulebook bag is getting full enough as it is :)

    The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! <3 If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
  • Alfred J. KwakAlfred J. Kwak Registered User
    edited February 2011
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    Man, first I wanted to start Wood Elves and bought their Army Book and a blister with Rangers, but they're kind of, quite bad and restricted in their troop selection. Then I was thinking Skaven, got me the Army Book and a Doom Wheel - and I don't want to paint a million miniatures (2-points infantry? fuck that). But now, now I'm pretty sure, Daemons is where's it at. Plus, they look cool, are rather cheap and easy to paint (because they're all naked).
    Except, ironically, the Slaaneshi ones.
    Unless you go for the previous metal daemonettes.

    Nah, but I don't like the current ones much either - I want those http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/7395/daemonettes20of20slaane.gif

    but just a small unit, they roll no dice against Bloodletters

    e: painting a Bloodletter means putting a thick layer of red on it and be done with it.

  • Cynic JesterCynic Jester Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Man, first I wanted to start Wood Elves and bought their Army Book and a blister with Rangers, but they're kind of, quite bad and restricted in their troop selection. Then I was thinking Skaven, got me the Army Book and a Doom Wheel - and I don't want to paint a million miniatures (2-points infantry? fuck that). But now, now I'm pretty sure, Daemons is where's it at. Plus, they look cool, are rather cheap and easy to paint (because they're all naked).

    And on the bright side, setting up a Daemon army on the other side of the table no longer causes people to punch you in the groin, an obvious plus.

  • TimFijiTimFiji Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    5+ ward save can kiss my ass, haha. My beasts got destroyed in round 2 in my last game vs. Daemons due to my Bestigors' special ability "Statistical Anomaly" that makes them roll lots of 1s to wound.

    NNID: Archpriest
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    Kid Icarus, MK7, Heroes of Ruin, Mario Tennis, Colors: 3D
  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Nah, but I don't like the current ones much either - I want those http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/7395/daemonettes20of20slaane.gif

    but just a small unit, they roll no dice against Bloodletters

    e: painting a Bloodletter means putting a thick layer of red on it and be done with it.
    Th...those are the previous, metal daemonettes...o_O:?:

    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
    DropBox invite link - get 250MB extra free.
  • MorskittarMorskittar Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    mugginns wrote: »
    Nax wrote: »
    What extras does it have over the mini? I'm not as interested in FB fluff like I am with 40k, so I don't think fluff alone would get me to drop the extra money on a hard cover

    Its got fluff and all that. The fluff is really, really, really great. Plus 40k really isn't just fantasy in space. Knowing all that stuff would be a good idea/

    I think that WFB fluff is vastly better than 40k. It's more coherent, more nuanced, and there's a lot more detail to it. It's also like crack if you're anything of a history fan; digging up nerdy easter eggs is the best.

    40k has an advantage in its scope and scale; it's big, it's flashy, and it doesn't look like anything else on the surface. Once you get past that surface (these days, at least) it's a pretty standard science-fantasy space opera. Warhammer, on the other hand, is highly speculative sci-fi wearing a bog-standard fantasy world's dead skin as a suit. The irony is baked in from the ground up.

    snm_sig.jpg
  • MagoMago Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    Nah, but I don't like the current ones much either - I want those http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/7395/daemonettes20of20slaane.gif

    but just a small unit, they roll no dice against Bloodletters

    e: painting a Bloodletter means putting a thick layer of red on it and be done with it.
    Th...those are the previous, metal daemonettes...o_O:?:

    Indeed.

    My pictures are hosted on flickr.
  • mugginnsmugginns Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Morskittar wrote: »
    mugginns wrote: »
    Nax wrote: »
    What extras does it have over the mini? I'm not as interested in FB fluff like I am with 40k, so I don't think fluff alone would get me to drop the extra money on a hard cover

    Its got fluff and all that. The fluff is really, really, really great. Plus 40k really isn't just fantasy in space. Knowing all that stuff would be a good idea/

    I think that WFB fluff is vastly better than 40k. It's more coherent, more nuanced, and there's a lot more detail to it. It's also like crack if you're anything of a history fan; digging up nerdy easter eggs is the best.

    40k has an advantage in its scope and scale; it's big, it's flashy, and it doesn't look like anything else on the surface. Once you get past that surface (these days, at least) it's a pretty standard science-fantasy space opera. Warhammer, on the other hand, is highly speculative sci-fi wearing a bog-standard fantasy world's dead skin as a suit. The irony is baked in from the ground up.

    Yip

    E26cO.jpg
  • NaxNax Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I have no doubt that there is some epic fluff, but that's just not the draw for me. Hell, I LOVE the 40k fluff, but I've flipped through the fluff in the 40k book maybe twice. Its just not the draw for me, is all :)

    The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! <3 If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
  • MorskittarMorskittar Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Nax wrote: »
    I have no doubt that there is some epic fluff, but that's just not the draw for me. Hell, I LOVE the 40k fluff, but I've flipped through the fluff in the 40k book maybe twice. Its just not the draw for me, is all :)

    NOOOOOO YOU MUST THINK LIKE MEEEEE.

    snm_sig.jpg
  • Lucky CynicLucky Cynic Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Guys, what does a "good" rabble of Stormvermin look like?

    I am going to be doing a Clan Rictus themed army and their thing seems to be badass Stormvermin so how can I outfit them to make them rule?

    I used to throw on Shields onto them but then I found out they can't use the shield with their hand weapon to get that parry save- in hand to hand, they default to their halberds- which means I should take them in a more offensive infantry position.

    I have 20 of them now, looking to get another 20 and make a rabble of 30, 35, or even 40. Two rabbles of 20 just kinda get eaten up and having some bodies to drop before losing rank bonuses is pretty rad too.

  • NaxNax Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Morskittar wrote: »
    Nax wrote: »
    I have no doubt that there is some epic fluff, but that's just not the draw for me. Hell, I LOVE the 40k fluff, but I've flipped through the fluff in the 40k book maybe twice. Its just not the draw for me, is all :)

    NOOOOOO YOU MUST THINK LIKE MEEEEE.

    Maybe it wkill come for me later, Mors :) you'll be the first to know if so

    The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! <3 If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
  • MorskittarMorskittar Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Nax wrote: »
    Morskittar wrote: »
    Nax wrote: »
    I have no doubt that there is some epic fluff, but that's just not the draw for me. Hell, I LOVE the 40k fluff, but I've flipped through the fluff in the 40k book maybe twice. Its just not the draw for me, is all :)

    NOOOOOO YOU MUST THINK LIKE MEEEEE.

    Maybe it wkill come for me later, Mors :) you'll be the first to know if so

    Good. Good.

    Lucky; Stormvermin are best used in the same way as Clanrats. Expendable and largely just as bodies. With the change to using hw/shield with other weapons, I'm not sure shields are a great option, unless you plan on using them against archers a lot. Having not played much in 8th I can't say for sure, but I think they're probably best at about 35 - 40, going against enemy regular troops. Where clanrats can't really beat many armies' line troops (other than through attrition and combat res), stormvermin in the same amount might actually be able to do so with a few ranks of S4 attacks and higher WS. They still can't take on enemy elites 1:1.

    In prior editions I almost always tried to get frenzy on a unit of 30+, then send them around the flank to pop units bogged down with clanrats. I'm not sure that will be as effective in 8th, but I'll certainly try it when I get some games in.

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  • Alfred J. KwakAlfred J. Kwak Registered User
    edited February 2011
    Mago wrote: »
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    Nah, but I don't like the current ones much either - I want those http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/7395/daemonettes20of20slaane.gif

    but just a small unit, they roll no dice against Bloodletters

    e: painting a Bloodletter means putting a thick layer of red on it and be done with it.
    Th...those are the previous, metal daemonettes...o_O:?:

    Indeed.

    oh, I thought you meant like, really old

  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Mago wrote: »
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    Nah, but I don't like the current ones much either - I want those http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/7395/daemonettes20of20slaane.gif

    but just a small unit, they roll no dice against Bloodletters

    e: painting a Bloodletter means putting a thick layer of red on it and be done with it.
    Th...those are the previous, metal daemonettes...o_O:?:

    Indeed.

    oh, I thought you meant like, really old

    Why would I mean those? They're terrible. And not in a good way either.

    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
    DropBox invite link - get 250MB extra free.
  • Lucky CynicLucky Cynic Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    So what I am thinking is a 7 file by 5 rank rabble of Stormvermin (or maybe two of those) and use them to be my hardened foundation. I don't like clanrats very much- not when Slaves are so fucking rad, but slaves- though (amazingly) reliable, they pretty much paper mache and don't tie up things for more than 2 rounds. Maybe enough to break up a rank or win a combat round or two.

    For slaves, I usually outfit them with shields (that parry save has saved my ass and has won me combat before) and musician and pawleader (again, for combat rez). Nothing is more amazing than when slaves make a rabble of Marauders stop dead in their tracks and overrun them. B)

  • MorskittarMorskittar Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    The few games I've tried of 8th, stormvermin haven't performed well in a wide formation. I think they almost always need to be deep, like you would clanrats or slaves. They're not hard enough to break a unit based on attacks, unless, perhaps, they're skavenbrewed up or Death Frenzied. 5 file, 7 ranks will be deeper than most enemy non-horde troops, so you're Stubborn and can win the attrition war.

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  • Alfred J. KwakAlfred J. Kwak Registered User
    edited February 2011
    For one block of clan rats, you can get two slaves bocks. For one block of Stormvermins, you get three and a half block of slaves. Using anything other than slaves as infantry (clan rats work as weapon platforms) actually makes your army weaker, and you can't even fire your flamers into them. Thanks GW.

  • MorskittarMorskittar Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    For one block of clan rats, you can get two slaves bocks. For one block of Stormvermins, you get three and a half block of slaves. Using anything other than slaves as infantry (clan rats work as weapon platforms) actually makes your army weaker, and you can't even fire your flamers into them. Thanks GW.

    While that's probably true, it seems boring and a regular opponent can make an army to counter that kind of gimmick build. Sure, if you're bringing a list to a tournament that'd probably be good, but if you're going to tournaments, you're kind of doing it wrong (in my and GW's opinion, at least).

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  • Alfred J. KwakAlfred J. Kwak Registered User
    edited February 2011
    it's horribly boring and part of the reason why I chose against playing Skaven. I'm also fairly sure it's one of the standard ways to play Skaven, because all these units cost as much as dirt and you still have lots of points left for things like Warp Canons, Doom Wheel, Hell Pit Abomination, and more weapon teams and slaves. Somehow the Skaven manage to be generic and uninteresting, at least when you want to play them on a tourney-level.

    At least with Daemons you can field pretty much everything (there're a few notable exceptions like the Daemon Prince or Screamers) without feeling like you're dumbing your army down.

  • MorskittarMorskittar Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Real men win with sub-optimal non-tournament builds.

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  • Alfred J. KwakAlfred J. Kwak Registered User
    edited February 2011
    Depends - I'm aiming for a fairly balanced army myself (most tournament here where I live - Austria, Germany - have tons of restrictions, like only one unit of every type from the rare selection, and some things like the Purple Sun spell or the Standard of Chaos Glory are outright banned). I like the idea that people try to balance what GW can't.

  • MorskittarMorskittar Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    The real answer is play how you like and to have fun... so it sounds like you're probably doing it right. :D

    Personally I can't stand tournaments, and play almost exclusively in my garage with close friends. We generally don't ban stuff, but do play pretty competitively. Generally, once we find something that's too good or very unfun to play, we'll houserule it or just not do it again. Or we get so trashed by the end of the game that the earlier competitiveness just doesn't matter anymore!

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  • Peter EbelPeter Ebel Deus Vult! OsloRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    But the rest of us suffered under either Prussian hegemony or some form of Puritanical Protestantism.

    We need rules to tell us what to do!

    Fuck off and die.
  • MorskittarMorskittar Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Or, more importantly, what *not* to do.

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  • ImpyrockerImpyrocker Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I just got back into Warhammer, and am trying to make an infantry heavy list for VC. Before, I generally relied upon a unit or two of blood knights to do everything I needed, but I don't think that will work anymore. Can somebody check out this list? I still haven't played any games with 8th yet.
    Spoiler:

    1345301-1.png
    Spoiler:
  • Lucky CynicLucky Cynic Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I'm not sure where I saw it but I think Morsk was talking about his Stormvermin and how he made them be Queek's body guards (+4 points per model so 11 points per rat, Weapon skill 5 and Strength 5 attacks with the halberds) along with a chieftain with the BSB and Skavenbrew to make them go batshit. Oh, and a Razor magical standard to give the entire unit AP1.

    That's pretty fucking mean.

    I ran that by the GW store manager I go to and he found it particularly deadly gave me a cool look as to how much damage that could do.

    But he was mentioning going 7x7 which would be a massive unit in size and points total. I am instead thinking 7x5 or 6 which still gives me plenty of rats to die off before losing steadfast/rank bonuses/needing to do panic checks.

    Thoughts? I did the math with 49 storm vermin and Queek and the Chieftain. It was just under 1,000 points. That's probably too much for a rabble of very, very mean Stormvermin.

  • MorskittarMorskittar Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Oh yes... someday.

    I've got dozens of three generations of old metal stormvermin; at some point, I'll paint them up to be Queek's rats. And yeah, that's just about a real elite skaven unit! That statline is much like their 4/5e stats, where I used to wreck the shit out of people with badass, skavenbrew'd, stormvermin.

    Keep in mind that skavenbrew now only affects the character with it and the unit - Queek won't get its benefits. Not that he needs them. 49 of those fuckers could be fun to play with, but I'm really wary of hugely expensive deathstar units with all the warmachines and unit-killing spells around. I'd probably field 20 or 30, and only in a large game where I can distract the enemy with lots of other threats.

    snm_sig.jpg
  • Lucky CynicLucky Cynic Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Well yeah, I am thinking that will be my hardcore foundation. Maybe around 35 (so 7 files, 5 ranks) and throw in blocks of 30 slaves on either side of it to flank/distract, and suddenly I have a mean melee machine.

    And to be honest, at times I wish Warhammer did have melee only game types or something because the actual infantry game is what a lot of people fail at. Most people just make 5x4 blocks of troops, send them forth and thats all. Flanking and using cavalry intelligently is what a lot of people don't do and unfortunately, a lot of shooting and magic makes it kinda unnecessary.

    Also, since I am painting these guys in the Clan Rictus scheme, I will go ahead and make this block of stormvermin the Deathvermin as per the heraldry book. :3

  • MorskittarMorskittar Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Even if that's a lot of eggs in one basket, that's the beauty of the game; you can make that kind of thing work. You'd probably want solid magic defense to stop any unit killing spells, and maybe another unit with the Storm Banner to help with a turn or two of shooting.

    Also, another really strong melee unit (or two), like Plague Monk horde with a Furnace, would give you either a distraction, or something to mop up the enemy if they focus too much on Queek's stormvermin.

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  • Lucky CynicLucky Cynic Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Also, I was thinking of making a unique Warlord for this Clan Rictus army and I was looking at some mean combos.

    How does fencer's blades along with gleaming armor sound? Weapon skill 10 and -1 to hit meaning he just is a sneaky son of a bitch to pin down. That and a ward save pendant for a 5+ ward should make him a real piece of work.

  • Alfred J. KwakAlfred J. Kwak Registered User
    edited February 2011
    Impyrocker wrote: »
    I just got back into Warhammer, and am trying to make an infantry heavy list for VC. Before, I generally relied upon a unit or two of blood knights to do everything I needed, but I don't think that will work anymore. Can somebody check out this list? I still haven't played any games with 8th yet.
    Spoiler:

    I'm by no means an expert, but I can tell you what I know from other Vampire lists that I came across

    most players fill their core with huge blocks of ghuls (I think it's 2*40-50) for the required 25% core selection

    not sure if spears will help the skeletons to kill anything

    the Black Knight Breaker (25-50 in size) with the Banner of Burrows/Drakenhof Banner and a Vampire with Helm of Commandment is apparently still a favorite

    works also with the Wraith Guard

    small-sized giant bats/wolves units are important for distraction

    the Wight King is apparently quite good for the price

    many Vampires use the Black Coach and Banshees, but I don't think they need to be in there


    but generally speaking, my only real advice is to make your infantry blocks bigger (8th edition standard is now 40-50, but they can be quite vulnerable to artillery and magic)

This discussion has been closed.