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A thread for cantankerous old bastards who don't like Brawl: Project M Demo!
Xenogears of Bore
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
If you know anything about Smash Bros, you know that a large portion of the fanbase didn't like Brawl.
Waaah, tripping, mushroom hopping, too many infinites, they nerfed this character, metaknight/snake are too good, etc, etc. The list goes on and on. Since the Wii Homebrew scene has been hopping along for years various groups have tried to make more Balanced or Melee like Brawls, and they all sucked.
Finally some cantankerous old bastards who really really like Melee decided to just turn Brawl into Melee.
http://projectm.smashmods.com/index.php
As long as you have a NTSC copy of Brawl and an SD card of 2 GB or less you can play without even modding your Wii.
Download the file, put it on the root of your SD card, go to stage builder, delete all custom stages and let the fun begin.
Doesn't have all the characters yet or even most of them, but it does play a lot like melee. They also brought back some fan favorite stages, but none of the really interesting ones.
Mario has his cape, Sheik kills everything, Jpuff plays like Jpuff. They even made Sonic good. Give it a shot!
Waaah, tripping, mushroom hopping, too many infinites, they nerfed this character, metaknight/snake are too good, etc, etc. The list goes on and on. Since the Wii Homebrew scene has been hopping along for years various groups have tried to make more Balanced or Melee like Brawls, and they all sucked.
Finally some cantankerous old bastards who really really like Melee decided to just turn Brawl into Melee.
http://projectm.smashmods.com/index.php
As long as you have a NTSC copy of Brawl and an SD card of 2 GB or less you can play without even modding your Wii.
Download the file, put it on the root of your SD card, go to stage builder, delete all custom stages and let the fun begin.
Doesn't have all the characters yet or even most of them, but it does play a lot like melee. They also brought back some fan favorite stages, but none of the really interesting ones.
Mario has his cape, Sheik kills everything, Jpuff plays like Jpuff. They even made Sonic good. Give it a shot!
Xenogears of Bore on
3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
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PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | SCREENED | STEAM ID | BUY SOME STUFF!
But yes, it's primarily for people who really, really, really like Melee.
They're not planning on removing anything.
Still, I do not care about this thing at all. I don't have any faith in fans being able to do a competent job at this sort of thing.
Nintendo Network ID: unclesporky
At them utterly failing at this.
It'll be worse then both games, likely be an unbalanced mess, and generally be retarded.
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | SCREENED | STEAM ID | BUY SOME STUFF!
Fear of change + Masterbation over l33t skillz
Smash Bros. is not a real fighting game
We all know that, right
Why would you play it instead of playing Street Fighter or Virtua Fighter or Tekken or some such, if that's really what you're after
I play Smash Bros. because it's fun and because I like to see Solid Snake snap Fox McCloud's neck
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | SCREENED | STEAM ID | BUY SOME STUFF!
It'll be so unbalanced that it becomes balanced.
(What? They say that about MvC2 all the time...)
There is more depth in the bare-bones melee physics engine. That is a fact.
Just about every fat character became terrible the second they couldn't L-Cancel to make up for their lack of speed.
Nah, I don't buy this at all. I don't even think there's any qualifying wording like "competitive fighting game" that could make it correct. I can't fathom what is missing from it that makes it not real. There are counters and counters to counters and move priorities and frame counting and everything.
I mean, if it's the fact that you don't have to type in long strings of buttons to perform moves, then I direct you to every upcoming 3DS fighter, which are all mapping moves to the touchscreen as instant shortcuts. That doesn't make them less of a fighting game either.
Nintendo Network ID: unclesporky
No it isn't.
There's more retarded obfuscation
See: L-canceling.
Remove that crap which nobody sane would even think of. Good thing.
Gannondorf was even worse in Melee.
The speed and slipperiness of the game made it impossible for anyone but Fox, Marth, and Sheik to be "good"
It's sorta combos in the original Street Fighter 2 or skiing in Tribes. What were unintentionally glitches became the de-facto way to compete. Instead of embracing it successive titles like the former examples, they went the opposite way in Brawl, and that rubbed some of the more hardcore players the wrong way.
And that argument was 75% of the hilarity of the old Brawl threads back in the day.
They're not even playing Smash Bros anymore. What they are playing is a meta game of their own creation.
In Ganondorf's case, the same aerial would KO at very low percentages in Melee, but since the physics have changed and new characters have crazy good recovery moves, it loses its effectiveness. So I'm pretty sure that Melee Ganondorf trumps Brawl Ganondorf.
Yes, it does
That's why the online play in those games will have the option to only play with people who aren't using the shortcuts
There is a magnitude of difference between a game like VF5 and a game like Smash Bros., and if you can't see that I must question whether we are perceiving the same reality
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | SCREENED | STEAM ID | BUY SOME STUFF!
you get your basic nintendo family games meant for folks to play together in a casual environment
and yet they attract a certain fanbase that does nothing but expose the arcane inner workings of the game to 'make it more competitive'
pokemon: EV training
smash: wavedashing, etc.
mariokart: snaking
so instead of playing games that actually try to support such aggressive attention, they just stick to nintendo titles.
and when you encounter them online/in multiplayer, you get your ass kicked by the only person in the room who's taking the game 1 billion times more seriously than everyone else
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy | blog
Yeah, one is fun to play and the other isn't.
SNAP
Thats actually a really good way of putting it.
You know, you're right
But EV training in Pokemon is different, in that it feels like a game feature that is kept hidden from the players because it's too complicated for kids to deal with, or some such
I mean, that you can affect what attributes of a pokemon increase when they level up based on what pokemon they fought during that level is not a thing that can possibly be an unintentional consequence of game mechanics, right?
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | SCREENED | STEAM ID | BUY SOME STUFF!
I agree!
But what makes one fun is what separates it from the other, is what I'm saying
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | SCREENED | STEAM ID | BUY SOME STUFF!
it's just the demographic that nintendo advertises to is diametrically opposed to that kind of metagaming
the brawl blog didn't mention wavedashing or floatiness or character nerfs or game speed
instead of mentioning metaknight in terms of overall balance, we get:
so it's partly nintendo's fault for not figuring out a coherent design strategy (until recently!). though we see in brawl and MK wii that when they finally DO match the game depth to the playerbase, the hardcore fanbase throws a fit
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy | blog
I don't find this terribly convincing without any examples. I provided examples; do they or do they not lend credence to the idea that SSB is a "real" fighting game?
It seems to me that any possible differences you might be thinking of are so nitpicky and miniscule as to be able to say the same for VF5 compared to other, more complex fighters.
"X isn't a real fighter because it doesn't have a 5-layer Turbo meter and counter-dash combos and doesn't run at 120 FPS!"
Nintendo Network ID: unclesporky
Wavedashing and L-canceling and snaking seem like exploiting the ways those games are built, rather than Nintendo going "okay, design it so that people will slide across the ground at super speeds by dodging while in midair, and don't surface that mechanic to the player ever, make them figure it out for themselves, okay cool ship that shit"
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | SCREENED | STEAM ID | BUY SOME STUFF!
Which is of course BS of the highest caliber. Target audience doesn't change what a game physically is, regardless of who plays it.
Nintendo Network ID: unclesporky
i'm talking about PERCEPTION. i'm talking about ADVERTISING. i'm talking about your average wii owner who doesn't know smash from a bowling ball and buys the game because it's got link AND mario AND zelda AND pikachu and golly that sounds neato.
they're the ones getting a raw deal when they stumble upon an online playerbase that's balls-deep into the metagaming. it's not like GT5 where you buy it and expect to be tuning and balancing and taking a certain line. the pitch doesn't quite jive with the product.
again, i blame nintendo, because it's a recipe for a divided customer base and general raging.
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy | blog
And for that matter of fact, snaking in F-Zero.
I mean, it has no chance at being half as good as Melee, but it might be fun to play sometime.
360 Gamertag: NFJ TheNix
Nitpicky and miniscule? Really?
Come on dude, work with me here
It's not like comparing, say, Dawn of War II to StarCraft II. Those are two radically different games with radically different design documents, but there is a basic framework that those two games adhere to, the way they present themselves and the skills required to play them, that makes them both "real-time strategy"
Look at how Smash Bros. plays versus how Virtua Fighter 5 plays. I contend that they are too different to be compared beyond the very surface level of "there are different characters and they fight each other" and if that's the criteria for "fighting game" then we need to seriously reevaluate what to call that genre
God I fucking hate that blue shell
FUCK YOU BLUE SHELL
YOU FUCKING SPIKY ASSHOLE
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | SCREENED | STEAM ID | BUY SOME STUFF!
hell, some of the developer ghost times in mario kart used snaking to get their top times
again, the depth is THERE, intended or not
but my problem is that your average buyer does not know what they are getting into because of the tone of the advertising.
other games get a "advanced techniques" trailer or something to show off the extra-slick moves you can do once you're good.
nintendo games NEVER get that.
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy | blog
Oh, are we talking about snaking in F-Zero?
I thought that was in Mario Kart
I'm totally willing to believe that snaking was intended for F-Zero!
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | SCREENED | STEAM ID | BUY SOME STUFF!