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[WoW] PvP: Fuck you. POKEMON.

Bobkins FlymoBobkins Flymo Nice day for aWaa WeddingRegistered User, Super Moderator, Moderator mod
edited October 2011 in MMO Extravaganza
This is the WoW thread for bitching about PvP. Unlike PvE, at least we actually get to kill some of the assholes we are forced to coexist with. However, we are still PvPing in WoW, so it's a wash.

We are in the post-patch frenzy, trying to see which class and spec is OP.

I don't know what class is OP anymore. Probably all of them. Not me though. I'm always balanced. Like a goddamn empty seesaw.

With new content patches coming in, I've decide to make a brand new guide! It is 100% newer than the last guide.

Rorus Raz's PvP Guide to PvP (with more NEW)

1. Run heroics and raids.

PvPing is for chumps, and the best way to get honor and valor is to just PvE until you want to throw up chaos orbs. Alternatively, you can spend money getting a shitty crafted PvP set and proceed to sit in lengthy queues for an opportunity to be steamrolled. You will wonder where your life took such a haphazard turn after your fourth hour of BGs and yet with only a paltry 500 honor.

So PvE is the best route for PvP gear. This is WoW, so this makes perfectly good sense.

2. You may now PvP

WoW has done wonderful things for many specs, keeping everything fairly viable at the pug level. It is hard to patch human behavior, however, so expect to still reap no enjoyment from PvP as your teammates continue to fight mid-field in WSG.

3. Unsub

Disgusted with this farce, you finally quit. You realizing that, after three expansions, PvP cannot be fixed. At least not by Blizzard. Maybe by you, you savvy armchair designer. PvE might suffer under your administration, but you figure raiding is due to spend some time as second banana. You do not bother shipping off your application, as something good came on TV. I think it's a Muppet Show rerun!

4. Resub

Blizzcon! New expansion! Blizzard re-gilds PvP with suggestions and features that you have been screaming about for years! Due to a terrible short-term memory (no doubt due to years of exposure to mild PC radiation), you board the hype train. First class. I think. You know, with those little rooms that have beds and shit. The really nice part of the train. I've never been on a train, so just google "trains" and see what the really kickass part of it is. You're there.

But, nestled deep within your brainstuffs, is the doubt that this cannot be. PvP will always suck, and the self-loathing slowly accumulates. Your rage-furnace is stoked in preparation as you return to step 1.

Bobkins Flymo on
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Posts

  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    New thread smell is already tainted by the stink of PvP induced tears.

    Oh hey, I queued for Warsong on my level 13 Frost mage. Rogues are still hilariously op in that bracket. In the end we won 1:1, because the three opposing rogues got bored of camping in their own flag room. As long as they did that, nothing got out alive.

    I had fun killing everybody else, though. Two frost novas is pretty great at a level where nobody has more than 5 abilities anyway.

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  • Bobkins FlymoBobkins Flymo Nice day for a Waa WeddingRegistered User, Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited February 2011
    Rogues have been broken in the 1-60s since 4.0.

    To be more specific: ambush is broken.

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  • SaerisSaeris Chronogestaltist Trinity, New MexicoRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I really hope they implement your idea of boosting honor gain based on how long you've been in the queue, Rorus. That's a solid temporary fix until they can figure out a way to get more Alliance to queue up.

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  • Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Saeris wrote: »
    I really hope they implement your idea of boosting honor gain based on how long you've been in the queue, Rorus. That's a solid temporary fix until they can figure out a way to get more Alliance to queue up.

    There is something up with the queue system at the moment. I got into a fair amount of BG's instantly last night, and the night before.

    The times I didn't, if I left the queue and re-joined, it would pop more or less immediately. Others I know have said the same thing. I'll admit that this is hardly the biggest cross section to take a sample from.

    I'd advise anyone who has been in a queue for well over the estimated waiting time to do the same (saying that, the times I've seen it go over the estimated time, my time in queue resets to zero).

    I'll also note, that in games where people leave for whatever reason, it takes a very long time for someone (if it happens at all) to fill in that space.

    So it's all bugged (I hope not, I'm getting more games) / there's been a big old faction transfer / they've changed the queue system somehow which has drastically reduced the wait time.

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  • SaerisSaeris Chronogestaltist Trinity, New MexicoRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I noticed the "queue time resetting" thing yesterday. Every 5 minutes or so, it would briefly reset to 0 seconds, count up to 5 or 6, and then flash back to the actual time.

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  • WaltWalt Waller Arcane Enchanted Frozen ElectrifiedRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Excellent OP.

    PSN:GeneiDjinn XBL:Top Hat Panda Steam:Top Hat Panda Battle.net:Walt#1813
  • KoldanarKoldanar Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Is there a guide out there for Enhance Shaman PVPs? I just hit 85 on my second char, and decided to delve into the muck that is WoW PVP. And man, was I getting stomped. I am aware some of the issue is gear, but some more of the issue is I don't know WTF to hit beyond my dps stuff for now (and my interrupt).

    3DS friend code : 1375 - 7258 - 4504
  • WaltWalt Waller Arcane Enchanted Frozen ElectrifiedRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Koldanar wrote: »
    Is there a guide out there for Enhance Shaman PVPs? I just hit 85 on my second char, and decided to delve into the muck that is WoW PVP. And man, was I getting stomped. I am aware some of the issue is gear, but some more of the issue is I don't know WTF to hit beyond my dps stuff for now (and my interrupt).

    Earthbind, grounding totem, wind shear heals and purge major buffs (like Paladin wings and such).

    And then you pound dudes with your DPS cooldowns.

    PSN:GeneiDjinn XBL:Top Hat Panda Steam:Top Hat Panda Battle.net:Walt#1813
  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    There's a shaman guide at arenajunkies, but I don't think it's that great.

    As a barebones build, I'd probably go for this That leaves three points for more damage (Call of Flame), utility (Earthen Power, Totemic Reach) or survivability (Elemental Warding, Toughness, Spark of Life)

    Last week I would have advised to go Frostbrand/Flametongue but with the WF buff this is now not an easy decision. edit: There's a thread at AJ about it and they say that WF/FB is the way to go if you need the snare. Use WF/FT if you do Arena with a class that can keep a snare up.


    Use Sham.Rage early and often. I would macro it to the glyphed Stoneclaw for an even better damage reduction. Purge was nerfed, but if you can connect to an enemy you should still spam it to clean them of their buffs.


    Really, most of PvP is just experience. You'll get better by doing it.

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  • Steel-AngelSteel-Angel Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    someone give me strategies for how to play mage/dk/disc above 2k

    hunters just kill me in 3 seconds with the 9k autoshot crit-->30k chim shot crit bullshit

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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I casted Soul Swap on the other thread and am now releasing my tears on this one.
    Redcoat-13 wrote: »
    Of course in 2's, you're rather limited with regards to how many targets you can swap to, and if you do kill the r.druid's partner, then you can't really swap targets anymore, but then that's more a problem due to the fact 2's arena is crap and horrible in it's ability to produce bullshit that can wind you up.

    Highly informative strategy guide in the OP, btw.

    Patch 5.4 wrote:
    First win of the day now awards 150 Conquest Points (up from 100).
    Subsequent wins now awards 75 Conquest Points (up from 50).
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • RichardTauberRichardTauber King of the north Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Best title ever.

    Intoxication emerges from an elementary desire to rise out of time
  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I hate fucking tourists in pvp. The people who stand around and watch you get killed.

    Tol Barad should be a even fight so if 3 horde show up it should be only 3 allaince not the 12+ I deal with when I bother with it

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  • Bobkins FlymoBobkins Flymo Nice day for a Waa WeddingRegistered User, Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited February 2011
    I had a guy who felt bad because he helped me win a fight I started.

    In Tol Barad. Yes, the questing area, but c'mon.

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  • SaerisSaeris Chronogestaltist Trinity, New MexicoRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I make a point of never interfering in equal fights.

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  • Bobkins FlymoBobkins Flymo Nice day for a Waa WeddingRegistered User, Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited February 2011
    It was 1v2. Yes, I started an unfair fight.

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  • SaerisSaeris Chronogestaltist Trinity, New MexicoRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
  • Bobkins FlymoBobkins Flymo Nice day for a Waa WeddingRegistered User, Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited February 2011
    Heirlooms should not be allowed in experience-on battlegrounds.

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  • Bobkins FlymoBobkins Flymo Nice day for a Waa WeddingRegistered User, Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited February 2011
    I take it back: Blizzard should just shut off all non-85 battlegrounds until they decide to fucking introduce a modicum of balance to low levels.

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  • TyberiusTyberius Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I say they just take out the whole idea of PvP and leave Blizzard to focus on what they're good at.

  • SonorkSonork New Westminster CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    My main is a hunter I've played since vanilla, I don't plan on renewing my account.

    I got a 6 month sub 5 months ago thinking, hell it's a new expansion i'll play for that long.

    Don't ever do that.

    If you take ONE thing away from this post let it be that.

    Nintendo Network ID: Sonork1
  • TyberiusTyberius Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Sonork wrote: »
    My main is a hunter I've played since vanilla, I don't plan on renewing my account.

    I got a 6 month sub 5 months ago thinking, hell it's a new expansion i'll play for that long.

    Don't ever do that.

    If you take ONE thing away from this post let it be that.

    I've canceled my account recently with 3 months remaining thinking the same.


    Goddammit.

  • Bobkins FlymoBobkins Flymo Nice day for a Waa WeddingRegistered User, Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited February 2011
    But WoW offers perhaps the best PvP of any MMORPG out there.

    And that's not just how PvP is designed, a lot of it has to do with the simply fact that WoW has a crisp, responsive combat engine that, with proper latency, will let you control your character the way you want. This is pretty fucking huge.

    Compare Warhammer. Sure, it had horrendous balance issues at launch, but WoW is hardly guiltless of that (Rogues at Vanilla, Druids in TBC, DKs in Wrath, Mages in Cata and so forth). But when I press a button in WAR, the outcome is at the mercy of the shoddy game. On melee characters, shit would go on cooldown despite failing due to being out of range. Spells would cast seemingly twice. Cast animation were procedural: any pushback would make the cast awkward.

    And then there's combat awareness. WAR has too many fucking debuffs. If they were all just dots or stat debuffs, it'd be no big deal. But many punish player action: taunts may increase the damage I take if I don't attack the tank. Dots may tick or refresh themselves if I move. A healing debuff may further damage me if I heal. These debuffs are all presented in tiny blocks with the timer display in the frame.

    WoW has big, distinct icons and fewer debuffs overall. Though things seem to be getting worse over time.

    So yeah, WoW PvP has issues, but nobody seems to be offering well-balanced PvP that is actually functional.

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  • Bobkins FlymoBobkins Flymo Nice day for a Waa WeddingRegistered User, Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited February 2011
    My account ends the 20th, but I got a six-month for Rift ready (hey, the discount is great). I tend to only go for three month blocks on WoW due to my erratic interest. Still, I think six months is two bucks off, so if you played for five months you're only out three dollars.

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  • kraz007kraz007 Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    As a HUnter, I'm specifically partial to the OP's statement about frost mages OP... They'd laugh at my puny attempts to run or fight. Some already have a macros spitting on my corpse lol.

    Riftforge: a free online RPG with fantasy tactics!

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  • TyberiusTyberius Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    My account ends the 20th, but I got a six-month for Rift ready (hey, the discount is great). I tend to only go for three month blocks on WoW due to my erratic interest. Still, I think six months is two bucks off, so if you played for five months you're only out three dollars.

    I have to say that Rift did indeed have a damn good discount for a 6 month subscription. As for bashing on WoW's PvP, that's easy cause they hardly give it any love when there are other competitors out there trying to one up the other MMO with their take on PvP. If only WoW would steal some of those ideas as well.

    Then again, perhaps they have with their new secret MMO!

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Tyberius wrote: »
    I say they just take out the whole idea of PvP and leave Blizzard to focus on what they're good at.
    That's probably not necessarily good for Blizzard from a financial standpoint. Is the number of subs they'd gain by doing this greater than the number of subs they'd lose? I would guess not.

    Patch 5.4 wrote:
    First win of the day now awards 150 Conquest Points (up from 100).
    Subsequent wins now awards 75 Conquest Points (up from 50).
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • Smaug6Smaug6 Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Why did they make it impossible for a resto spec to kill anything these days?

    Last night was doing some 2 v 2 arena. I am resto shaman and my partner is dps. We are up against two dps (frost mage and arms warrior) manage to burn down the warrior quickly, but then my teammate dc's. So its just me vs a frost mage. 40 minutes later the match ends in a draw. At one point I whittled him down pretty low, but then he rooted me, blinked and managed to invis before I could hit him with flameshock again. So frustrating.

    He couldn't kill me either. So stupid. He tried for like 20 mintues. At one point, we both stopped attacking and figured that he would just let it go and drop or at least sit there and just wait for the timer to run out. So I am watching tv and just not going afk. He tries to gank me a few more times out of the blue. Its like really? We already established that we can't really kill each other multiple times. Why do you have to keep trying? Eventually time ran out.

    They really need to shorten the time it takes for a draw or at least give resto specs some way of dealing damage that the other side can't evocate/recuperate/etc through.

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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    And here you have the other side of the coin, folks.

    Patch 5.4 wrote:
    First win of the day now awards 150 Conquest Points (up from 100).
    Subsequent wins now awards 75 Conquest Points (up from 50).
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    2vs2 is rubbish.

    If you use it for anything else other than getting some points, you're going to eventually come across one of those games where you're trapped in a situation that the game is going to end in a draw, and you'll have wasted 40 mins of your time doing the worst / most pointless pvp. If you think you're going to get into one of these games, just do yourself a favour and afk out of it.

    I doubt any healer can kill anything atm. We've had dps classes a bloo bloo bloo'ing since TBC when they changed healing power to spell power, and how they fight a healer for 10-15 mins only to then die.

    Now all dps (with the exception of hunters?) have got some kind of heal (that ironically tends to be better than hybrid heals because of the new healing system itself), and with the massive health pools, a healer killing a dps isn't going to happen any time soon.

    Maybe once we get into higher tiers, you'll have some item budget to allow you to put out some dps, but for the time being, healers are back to being what they were in TBC when they couldn't kill anything on their own (unless of course you're trying to get the other guy to die of old age).

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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Redcoat-13 wrote: »
    2vs2 is rubbish.

    If you use it for anything else other than getting some points, you're going to eventually come across one of those games where you're trapped in a situation that the game is going to end in a draw, and you'll have wasted 40 mins of your time doing the worst / most pointless pvp. If you think you're going to get into one of these games, just do yourself a favour and afk out of it.

    I doubt any healer can kill anything atm. We've had dps classes a bloo bloo bloo'ing since TBC when they changed healing power to spell power, and how they fight a healer for 10-15 mins only to then die.

    Now all dps (with the exception of hunters?) have got some kind of heal (that ironically tends to be better than hybrid heals because of the new healing system itself), and with the massive health pools, a healer killing a dps isn't going to happen any time soon.

    Maybe once we get into higher tiers, you'll have some item budget to allow you to put out some dps, but for the time being, healers are back to being what they were in TBC when they couldn't kill anything on their own (unless of course you're trying to get the other guy to die of old age).
    Even hunters have some self-healing now if they're not Survival. MM hunters don't get much (5% every 10 seconds at best), but it adds up, and they still have ways to disengage from a healer long enough to bandage, potentially. I don't know if PvP BM hunters get Spirit Bond now or not, but they also have the possibility of using a Spirit Beast and getting a decent self-heal every 45 seconds.

    Patch 5.4 wrote:
    First win of the day now awards 150 Conquest Points (up from 100).
    Subsequent wins now awards 75 Conquest Points (up from 50).
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • Mr PinkMr Pink I got cats for youRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I love when I come up against someone in a BG with full PVP gear. Yeah, I didn't want to do damage to you anyway, it's cool.

    But PVP is great for those moments where you feel totally invincible, the heals are perfect, and you're just rolling through people.

  • Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    PvP can really cause me to face palm hard. Like I see 3 dps up at the LM, see from their health / mana bars that something is up there, but not really killing them.

    Go up to find a mage / hunter / s. priest (my side), fighting a warrior with a resto shaman. All the dps is on the warrior, whose health is not going down.

    I sigh, hex the r.shaman, which allows my ever-so-dim team mates to kill the warrior, then I cap the flag whilst they zerg the healer.

    If only hunters or mages or s. priests had some kind of skill / spell which would stop the r.shaman from healing.

    Conversely, I entered a WSG where my side was losing 1-0 (I didnt have high hopes). As the game went on, it became apparent that my side was only losing because it lacked healers, since when my side realised I was resto, the amount of assists I got in terms of peels (eg: a DK that was already fighting something, switched targets and deathgripped a rogue off me), I had to pinch myself.

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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Redcoat-13 wrote: »
    PvP can really cause me to face palm hard. Like I see 3 dps up at the LM, see from their health / mana bars that something is up there, but not really killing them.

    Go up to find a mage / hunter / s. priest (my side), fighting a warrior with a resto shaman. All the dps is on the warrior, whose health is not going down.

    I sigh, hex the r.shaman, which allows my ever-so-dim team mates to kill the warrior, then I cap the flag whilst they zerg the healer.
    Meanwhile you lose two nodes elsewhere because your teammates are not hitting people on the flag.

    Patch 5.4 wrote:
    First win of the day now awards 150 Conquest Points (up from 100).
    Subsequent wins now awards 75 Conquest Points (up from 50).
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I'm just now getting into PvP. I have no illusions of it being balanced in any way shape or form, it's basically enjoyable as an arcade mini-game but fuuuuck is it tiresome gearing up for it. Luck of the draw whether I can actually participate or not because oh, hey. Dude has PvP gear. He's gonna outlast me.

    Bugger.

    Also Battle for Gilneas seems slightly broken? It's a fun concept but it boils down to being the first team to two bases, and making sure you have someone run around the flag spamming AoE. Looking at you Fan of Knives Rogue :(

    Edit: The other thing that sucks is how wildly battlegrounds vary in time:honor ratios.

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  • BikkstahBikkstah Registered User
    edited February 2011
    I would say grab someone and faceroll 2v2 arena for some easy gear that is more fair in terms of time:gear ratio. It's very easy to max your conquest in 10 games or so, even if you don't have any PvP gear. You'd be surprised at how many teams like your own that you come up against: just people looking for their weekly points.

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Just pray you don't end up with a terrible comp, like hunter + resto druid.

    Patch 5.4 wrote:
    First win of the day now awards 150 Conquest Points (up from 100).
    Subsequent wins now awards 75 Conquest Points (up from 50).
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I'm actually finding the Honor grind to not be that bad. Yeah it takes a while but...battlegrounds are fun. Aside from Alterac Valley which is awful. But the rest I tend to have a really good time!

    Soul Silver FC: 1935 3141 6240
    White FC: 0819 3350 1787
  • korodullinkorodullin What. Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    I'm actually finding the Honor grind to not be that bad. Yeah it takes a while but...battlegrounds are fun. Aside from Alterac Valley which is awful. But the rest I tend to have a really good time!

    Give it a couple weeks. The novelty always wears off.

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  • BuddiesBuddies Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    korodullin wrote: »
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    I'm actually finding the Honor grind to not be that bad. Yeah it takes a while but...battlegrounds are fun. Aside from Alterac Valley which is awful. But the rest I tend to have a really good time!

    Give it a couple weeks. The novelty always wears off.

    Battle for Gilneas, Twin Peaks, Warsong Gulch, and Arathi Basin are the only Battlegrounds worth playing. EotS is alright, I guess but it's got a little too much going on. I refuse to do random BGs with my friends because of how terrible AV, IoC and SoA are.

    Getting SoA as a healer is the worse thing ever. I feel so fucking useless there because noone PvPs, the only things that take damage are fucking siege engines. It was kinda cool the first time I ever played it, but then after 4 games all I could think was "Okay, let me just use my character that I built to kill people, not use a vehicle to attack a god damn wall"


    Those 4 though? Hell yea. I really like the 2 new BGs.

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