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[WoW] PvP: Fuck you. POKEMON.

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Posts

  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    korodullin wrote: »
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    I'm actually finding the Honor grind to not be that bad. Yeah it takes a while but...battlegrounds are fun. Aside from Alterac Valley which is awful. But the rest I tend to have a really good time!

    Give it a couple weeks. The novelty always wears off.

    Doubtful. But this does raise the question: If you don't really care for Battlegrounds, what precisely is your primary motivation for getting Honor gear in the first place? Arena?

    For me it's the other way around. The only reason I even touch Arenas is so I can do better in battlegrounds. Battlegrounds are the main attraction. Arenas are some annoying little thing I have to devote time to. Mercifully it's a very small amount of time.

    Soul Silver FC: 1935 3141 6240
    White FC: 0819 3350 1787
  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Buddies wrote: »
    Battle for Gilneas, Twin Peaks, Warsong Gulch, and Arathi Basin are the only Battlegrounds worth playing. EotS is alright, I guess but it's got a little too much going on. I refuse to do random BGs with my friends because of how terrible AV, IoC and SoA are.

    Getting SoA as a healer is the worse thing ever. I feel so fucking useless there because noone PvPs, the only things that take damage are fucking siege engines. It was kinda cool the first time I ever played it, but then after 4 games all I could think was "Okay, let me just use my character that I built to kill people, not use a vehicle to attack a god damn wall"

    In SotA just spam your dispel(s) on the demolishers. You'll be the reason your team wins.

    I dislike Battle for Gilneas. I still think it favors Alliance slightly and having a 3-base-Arathi means that most often the first to 2 caps wins. It's very hard to come back from being behind one base, while that is certainly possible in Arathi.


    My personal preference list for BGs is probably
    EotS - Arathi - Twin Peaks - Warsong - SotA - Gilneas - IoC - Alterac.
    IoC is only in front of Alterac because I play Horde and we win 80% of the time there, while we lose Alterac 80% of the time.

    /edit: But in reality, any BG can be absolutely terrible if you get grouped with silly geese and any BG can be great if you get a solid group in there. I'd still think it was great if Blizz allowed us to queue as dps/tank/healer for BGs, so we don't get stupid combinations like 8 healers in WSG or a single healer in Arathi etc.

  • RanlinRanlin Oh gosh Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    People would just select every role they could to get in faster.

  • Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    korodullin wrote: »
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    I'm actually finding the Honor grind to not be that bad. Yeah it takes a while but...battlegrounds are fun. Aside from Alterac Valley which is awful. But the rest I tend to have a really good time!

    Give it a couple weeks. The novelty always wears off.

    Doubtful. But this does raise the question: If you don't really care for Battlegrounds, what precisely is your primary motivation for getting Honor gear in the first place? Arena?

    For me it's the other way around. The only reason I even touch Arenas is so I can do better in battlegrounds. Battlegrounds are the main attraction. Arenas are some annoying little thing I have to devote time to. Mercifully it's a very small amount of time.

    People complain about the grind, because until you get the gear, you are left with the option of having to bend-over and just take until then. If I were to go to Blizz

    "hey, I'm going into BG's trying to get some pvp gear, but I'm not really enjoying eating massive hits and dieing quickly, while at the same time all I'm doing not very much damage to others in pvp gear"

    "yeah, you need to get some pvp gear"

    "yes, that's why I'm trying to do, but as I said, I'm not having.."

    "get some pvp gear, then pvp will be fine"

    "are you listening?"

    Some of the survivability, is dependent on your class, some have some nice life-saving / extending abilities that are independent of your gear, but some classes are alot more reliant on resilience as a stat.

    If you play somewhat casually (say, 20 BG's a week of which you win 60% + 8 TB games + doing the weekly arena games), you're looking at a 5-6 week grind to be in mostly blue pvp gear + a few arena bits + arena weapons.

    In those 5-6 weeks, you'll be put up against people of various levels of gear (what's that, you missed out on the TB games giving 1.8k per game? Tuff). People just starting, bounce of my resto shaman.

    Next season, that grind will be even more soul destroying, because you'll be even more behind the curve.

    2193478FpRzm.png
  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I find that there's enough people with gear situations little better than mine on the other team that I can reasonably contribute 90% of the time. Maybe the BG ques just love me but I've been at this for a week now and that impression hasn't changed.

    Do I still get destroyed occasionally with little I can do about it? Yeah but it's not like I went into this expecting balance.

    Soul Silver FC: 1935 3141 6240
    White FC: 0819 3350 1787
  • Mr PinkMr Pink I got cats for youRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    It's all a matter of knowing where your class fits into the rock/paper/scissors sort of chart.

    For instance, I'm a demonology warlock. If I see a shaman or paladin, I just avoid them.

    Druid or rogue though, yeah, I'm going to wreck their day.

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I don't really get how you can "just avoid" someone if you're defending an objective or doing more than just zerging around for HKs.

    Of course, my healer happens to be one of the biggest and most obvious, so even the geese can usually figure out to target me pretty quickly. So my perspective is probably a little more tainted by the "fucked no matter what" situation. Oh, to be a goblin priest.

    Patch 5.4 wrote:
    First win of the day now awards 150 Conquest Points (up from 100).
    Subsequent wins now awards 75 Conquest Points (up from 50).
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • KainyKainy Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Mr Pink wrote: »
    It's all a matter of knowing where your class fits into the rock/paper/scissors sort of chart.

    For instance, I'm a demonology warlock. If I see a shaman or paladin, I just avoid them.

    Druid or rogue though, yeah, I'm going to wreck their day.

    Expansions ago, I was a fury warrior, and I lived in the quivering, bloody anuses of priests and warlocks.

    It was beautiful.

    Of course most people stomped my shit into pieces, but I always enjoyed seeing that one thing I was a hard counter to, and crawling so far up his ass that he'd be shitting my weapons for weeks.

    I really wish they'd make honor faster. I could almost be bothered to put a PvP set together this expansion, but the combination of how long it takes and my being awfully out of practice makes it just not a lot of damn fun.

    IcyLiquid wrote: »
    There's anti-fuckery code in there now :) Sorry :)
  • Mr PinkMr Pink I got cats for youRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    forty wrote: »
    I don't really get how you can "just avoid" someone if you're defending an objective or doing more than just zerging around for HKs.

    Of course, my healer happens to be one of the biggest and most obvious, so even the geese can usually figure out to target me pretty quickly. So my perspective is probably a little more tainted by the "fucked no matter what" situation. Oh, to be a goblin priest.

    By avoid I mean I don't directly engage. If I'm the one defending, yeah, I'll go after them. But in a massive melee or something like TB, you learn to pick your targets.

  • Steel-AngelSteel-Angel Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    double fury + disc priest

    kill someone inside a holy word chastise

    signaturep.jpg
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    So I see the BG queues are fucked up or something. I would queue for a random BG with my friend. The average wait time would claim to be anything from about 3-7 minutes. We waited 28 before giving up. I tried queuing us for AB since that was the Call to Arms, and we got into a game in 3-4 minutes.

    Also, resilience is finally being put on DRs so it doesn't become better point-for-point as you get more. Good for the game in the long-term of late expansion ratings inflation, I suppose, but bad for how easy it is to get 'sploded in BGs. At least the nerf won't actually kick in until around 3k resilience, and it ends up being a slight buff to people still gearing up in PvP gear.

    Patch 5.4 wrote:
    First win of the day now awards 150 Conquest Points (up from 100).
    Subsequent wins now awards 75 Conquest Points (up from 50).
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    My strategy with BG ques is to reque if it hits five minutes. Because odds are, it's bugged if it's gone on that long. I did this after I noticed that almost every time I did get into a BG it was in two minutes or less. Anything more than five is abnormal.

    Soul Silver FC: 1935 3141 6240
    White FC: 0819 3350 1787
  • BuddiesBuddies Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    My strategy with BG ques is to reque if it hits five minutes. Because odds are, it's bugged if it's gone on that long. I did this after I noticed that almost every time I did get into a BG it was in two minutes or less. Anything more than five is abnormal.

    Either bugged or it has decided you didn't really want to PvP and is placing you in AV or IoC and is just waiting for more people.

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    My strategy with BG ques is to reque if it hits five minutes. Because odds are, it's bugged if it's gone on that long. I did this after I noticed that almost every time I did get into a BG it was in two minutes or less. Anything more than five is abnormal.
    I had tried that before, as well. After three or so five-minute waits, I just gave up.

    I'd seen people saying they eventually got into a BG after 20-25 minutes despite what the completely useless "average wait time" number said, so I figured maybe sometimes I just had to wait a while.

    What a fucking mess, Blizzard.

    Patch 5.4 wrote:
    First win of the day now awards 150 Conquest Points (up from 100).
    Subsequent wins now awards 75 Conquest Points (up from 50).
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • SaerisSaeris Chronogestaltist Trinity, New MexicoRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    A few weeks ago I had a 45 minute queue, at primetime, and after waiting that long... it put me in Alterac Valley. Which ended in 10 minutes, without any actual PvP occurring therein.

    That was the day I canceled my account.

    Nlgya.png
  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    My stated queue time is always something around 7 or 8 minutes. Smaller BGs pop inside of 5 minutes, bigger BGs (Alterac, IoC) pop after 12-13 minutes. So I just requeue after 15min. This has worked fine for me so far.

  • Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I just do Archeology while I'm in the queue, so the time just flies by!


    Not really; I check the queue time, and if I go over the estimated queue time, I re-queue. I did EotS / WSG / TP / EotS / AV (actual pvp took place!) / EotS; all those queues popped within 2 mins, if not straight away. "Only" the boots / bracers / belt / 2nd trinket / relic left to go.

    God this grind. It's double-sided. On the one hand, it took a while for me to not die in silly lockdowns, but on the other, because I imagine people can't be arsed with this grind, it means alot of people are now just bouncing off me.

    I'm not doing this grind on an alt.

    Oh, and last night I died in TB about 30 seconds after the game ended, at which point I got teleported to the GY just south of the Crossroads (I was able to sign up for a WG, and then run to a GY to rez).

    Isn't there now going to be some sort of cap on resilience? Around the 3k mark? I'm at that now, because I'm cheesing the 2 set bonus, but if that's the cap, once I've done this grind, I might as well adjust my gear in preparation for this.

    2193478FpRzm.png
  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    They said they'll remove the ability to stack dual 2set bonuses. Probably when the next season starts.

    And no, there's no cap, but 4.1 changes the way resilience scales. I haven't seen any numbers/graphs yet but they basically said that anyone over 32.5% reduction will see a decrease and anyone under 32.5% reduction will see an increase.

  • Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Grobian wrote: »
    They said they'll remove the ability to stack dual 2set bonuses. Probably when the next season starts.

    And no, there's no cap, but 4.1 changes the way resilience scales. I haven't seen any numbers/graphs yet but they basically said that anyone over 32.5% reduction will see a decrease and anyone under 32.5% reduction will see an increase.

    Yeah, I'm nearly at that 32.5% mark then.

    I only went for that dual 2 set bonus, because I thought it better to just get as much resilience as I could, as quick as possible, but as I'll be over that 32.5% mark once I got a complete set of gear, then I'm not going to lose any sleep with that change happening.

    Also, I'm not that impressed with the shaman 4 piece bonus, since at the level I pvp at anyway, I've never found myself wanting a grounding totem just that little bit sooner. Maybe it'll reduce the tremor totem cooldown as well.

    2193478FpRzm.png
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    It will take more and more resilience rating to get 1% damage reduction above ~3k as your resilience goes higher. Basically just the same deal that you see with dodge/parry rating->dodge/parry % or armor->DR %.

    Patch 5.4 wrote:
    First win of the day now awards 150 Conquest Points (up from 100).
    Subsequent wins now awards 75 Conquest Points (up from 50).
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Buddies wrote: »
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    My strategy with BG ques is to reque if it hits five minutes. Because odds are, it's bugged if it's gone on that long. I did this after I noticed that almost every time I did get into a BG it was in two minutes or less. Anything more than five is abnormal.

    Either bugged or it has decided you didn't really want to PvP and is placing you in AV or IoC and is just waiting for more people.

    If it was going to place you in AV/IoC then you still won out because AV/IoC are fucking awful. 5 minute reques for liiiife.

    Soul Silver FC: 1935 3141 6240
    White FC: 0819 3350 1787
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Is it really taking 20+ minutes sometimes to fill an 80-man BG? Seems like their algorithm is broken if that's what's going on. For one thing, across all the servers that are now connected for BGs, there are a shitload of people queuing. And also, I've gotten into AV/IoC games in just a few minutes before, so why the hell would it take forever sometimes?

    I'm sure the PvP intern just hosed something up.

    Patch 5.4 wrote:
    First win of the day now awards 150 Conquest Points (up from 100).
    Subsequent wins now awards 75 Conquest Points (up from 50).
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • Mr PinkMr Pink I got cats for youRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I don't know what you guys are doing, because I'm getting in in plenty of time to lose from a Horde five cap.

  • JutranjoJutranjo Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    4 man group last night we would queue up and get 4 BGs in a row with like 2-3 minutes waiting. Long games too afterwards.

    One time we got a blinking JOIN NOW that vanished the second it appeared only to requeue you again and offer it again, etc. Could not join :(

    Also that one was after a 20 minute wait.

  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    So I saw this and thought it was interesting, but it does address a couple of issues with WSG:

    Source
    The days of graveyard camping in Warsong Gulch may be coming to an end soon, thanks to some new plans we have in store for the battleground in patch 4.1:

    We are moving the graveyards to their own terrain level, preventing camping by members of the opposing team.

    However, this will also serve another purpose; players will no longer be able to respawn and run straight back into their flag room. They will either have to drop down then run up the tunnel, or go around the top of the base. This adds around 20 seconds to the journey from the graveyard to the flag room.

  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Huh. It's been kinda long since I've been camped at the graveyard. And you could always just not rez which is the same as not dropping down in the new model. But it keeps people from turtling with the flag at their own graveyard, that happened sometimes.

    I'm withholding judgement until I see the new layout myself.

  • Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I suspect that the change has less to do with GY camping, and more due to the fact that it is really easy to turtle once you got the other side's flag by sitting on your own GY.

    This expansion, you've got people on what, 120-130k health in pvp gear (add another chunk of health if tank spec'd). That 1-30 sec timer makes it very hard / near impossible to kill a FC sitting there.

    2193478FpRzm.png
  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    You know what's fun? Playing Warsong Gulch against a team of 6 Paladins. 3 Prot, 3 Holy.

    Soul Silver FC: 1935 3141 6240
    White FC: 0819 3350 1787
  • Mr PinkMr Pink I got cats for youRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    You know what's fun? Playing Warsong Gulch against a team of 6 Paladins. 3 Prot, 3 Holy.

    I joined up with a friend once for a few BGs. His guild was doing rated and needed one more to make 10, and I've done some instances with them before.

    The group was:

    4 Ret Pallys
    2 Holy Pallys
    2 Holy Priests
    1 Shadow Priest
    1 Affliction Warlock (Me)

    No one died on our team. Ever.

  • CasedOutCasedOut Registered User
    edited March 2011
    forty wrote: »
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    My strategy with BG ques is to reque if it hits five minutes. Because odds are, it's bugged if it's gone on that long. I did this after I noticed that almost every time I did get into a BG it was in two minutes or less. Anything more than five is abnormal.
    I had tried that before, as well. After three or so five-minute waits, I just gave up.

    I'd seen people saying they eventually got into a BG after 20-25 minutes despite what the completely useless "average wait time" number said, so I figured maybe sometimes I just had to wait a while.

    What a fucking mess, Blizzard.

    Relog if it bugs, its the only way I have noticed that works. Every time it goes over the estimated time, I relog then requeue and it works almost instantly.

    452773-1.png
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Graveyard camping is like the least of WSG's problems.

    Patch 5.4 wrote:
    First win of the day now awards 150 Conquest Points (up from 100).
    Subsequent wins now awards 75 Conquest Points (up from 50).
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Mr Pink wrote: »
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    You know what's fun? Playing Warsong Gulch against a team of 6 Paladins. 3 Prot, 3 Holy.

    I joined up with a friend once for a few BGs. His guild was doing rated and needed one more to make 10, and I've done some instances with them before.

    The group was:

    4 Ret Pallys
    2 Holy Pallys
    2 Holy Priests
    1 Shadow Priest
    1 Affliction Warlock (Me)

    No one died on our team. Ever.

    You're all going to hell. I don't care how "Holy" the lot of you say you are. :<

    Soul Silver FC: 1935 3141 6240
    White FC: 0819 3350 1787
  • Mr PinkMr Pink I got cats for youRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    Mr Pink wrote: »
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    You know what's fun? Playing Warsong Gulch against a team of 6 Paladins. 3 Prot, 3 Holy.

    I joined up with a friend once for a few BGs. His guild was doing rated and needed one more to make 10, and I've done some instances with them before.

    The group was:

    4 Ret Pallys
    2 Holy Pallys
    2 Holy Priests
    1 Shadow Priest
    1 Affliction Warlock (Me)

    No one died on our team. Ever.

    You're all going to hell. I don't care how "Holy" the lot of you say you are. :<

    Whats even stranger is that they are from a RP guild (though admittedly very laid back about it) thats all about using the Light for good.

    So I'm all like, hey guys, I'm just going to summon this demon over here. That ok? Cool.

  • KashiKashi Registered User
    edited March 2011
    I've been re-queuing BGs at every 2 minutes to very positive effect. It may be superstition, but zoning or alt+tabbing seems to help break the queue, so I generally just fish for 30-120 seconds and a queue pops.


    This season/expansion I have decided to stop bothering trying to be ret in PvP. I have some friends using them to some fairly positive effect, but I just got tired of it. I'm holy all the way, and it's like being a BG hero class. Surprisingly you can kill other classes as a holy pally so long as the other player isn't expecting it at all. Pop wings/divine favor and exo spam might even spike up to 7k dps for about 20 seconds or so. I've had quite a few people just keep on trying to dps me during this time, confident that they'll actually kill me before I kill them.

    Doesn't work nearly as well against someone else who plays arena, though, as they might just murder me outright (hi warriors), in spite of my 3400 resilience. Of course it's impossible to kill another healer regardless.

    dura1top.png
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    The various AoE CCs floating around now really remind me of one of the worst things about DAoC.

    Patch 5.4 wrote:
    First win of the day now awards 150 Conquest Points (up from 100).
    Subsequent wins now awards 75 Conquest Points (up from 50).
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • MistaCreepyMistaCreepy Registered User
    edited March 2011
    Kashi wrote: »
    I've been re-queuing BGs at every 2 minutes to very positive effect. It may be superstition, but zoning or alt+tabbing seems to help break the queue, so I generally just fish for 30-120 seconds and a queue pops.


    This season/expansion I have decided to stop bothering trying to be ret in PvP. I have some friends using them to some fairly positive effect, but I just got tired of it. I'm holy all the way, and it's like being a BG hero class. Surprisingly you can kill other classes as a holy pally so long as the other player isn't expecting it at all. Pop wings/divine favor and exo spam might even spike up to 7k dps for about 20 seconds or so. I've had quite a few people just keep on trying to dps me during this time, confident that they'll actually kill me before I kill them.

    Doesn't work nearly as well against someone else who plays arena, though, as they might just murder me outright (hi warriors), in spite of my 3400 resilience. Of course it's impossible to kill another healer regardless.

    I find that for the first time in my WoW career I am eating paladins and oh god I love it.

    PS3: MistaCreepy::Steam: MistaCreepy::360: Dead and I don't feel like paying to fix it.
  • SaerisSaeris Chronogestaltist Trinity, New MexicoRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    forty wrote: »
    The various AoE CCs floating around now really remind me of one of the worst things about DAoC.

    The fact that it was AoE wasn't the primary problem. The problem was that it lasted so long while being AoE.

    "So long" is a relative term, though. Despite being 20+ seconds in DAoC, you could often fight through it due to generally low damage and other mitigating factors. In WoW the duration is much shorter, but damage is so much higher that it's harder to deal with.

    Nlgya.png
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Saeris wrote: »
    forty wrote: »
    The various AoE CCs floating around now really remind me of one of the worst things about DAoC.

    The fact that it was AoE wasn't the primary problem. The problem was that it lasted so long while being AoE.
    Right, but as your second paragraph implies, 8 seconds of being able to do nothing in WoW is so long. So, just like DAoC. I really feel this shit has no place in WoW PvP.

    Patch 5.4 wrote:
    First win of the day now awards 150 Conquest Points (up from 100).
    Subsequent wins now awards 75 Conquest Points (up from 50).
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • Mr PinkMr Pink I got cats for youRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I agree, as a Warlock I'm sometimes lucky if I have one or two seconds per fight where I'm not silenced/stunned/feared/etc. By then, I just try to get a few dots off. Being a spellcaster opens up a whole new area of CC to be used on you.

  • SaerisSaeris Chronogestaltist Trinity, New MexicoRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Well, my point was that even though the duration itself is longer in DAoC, it's still more manageable. Given WoW's damage levels, its CC durations are too long. We're agreeing.

    Nlgya.png
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