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[WoW] PvP: Fuck you. POKEMON.

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Posts

  • JasconiusJasconius bird internet Saint Petersburg RussiaRegistered User regular
    I'd like them to spend some time fixing regular battleground queues.

    I don't have enough fingers to count the "3 Min" queues that I've had that go for 20 or more minutes and never pop. Honor is slow enough... when the queue system only works for a 30 hour window between Friday and Saturday...

  • GrobianGrobian Registered User regular
    Just requeue when you go over the stated estimate. Maybe that should be put into the thread title, it's the most important PvP advice right now.

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  • Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    Jasconius wrote: »
    I like CTF a lot and I like the twin peaks map design much more than WSG.

    And I think it's not hard to make CTF better in this game, along the lines of marginalizing certain things that give certain specs ridiculous advantages.

    Limiting movement speed, limiting effective damage reduction, limiting diminishing returns benefits for Flag carries would be a pretty easy way to make CTF seem more dynamic without making any changes the rest of the game. Or just have a stacking Mortal Strike effect every minute instead of a 50% damage intake debuff right now.

    The silly thing is, is that they've introduced (or are going to) a bunch of rules for flag carriers, but only for rated BG's. I guess because they've seen lots of 10 man teams just stack 4-5 healers (this hints at a problem).

    Things like you take more damage or recieve less healing straight away, in addition to those debuffs that you get if you hold the flag for too long coming along sooner and amovement debuff that stops you going from faster than normal speed as soon as you pick the flag up (as opposed to having to wait).

    I guess that those changes are only happening for rated BG's, due to pugs normally being pretty bad in terms of organisation, but if you see the other team with 3 healers even in a pug, you know you're in for a rough time trying to kill their FC.

    I don't see why those damage / movement changes couldn't be introduced into pug BG's (although maybe with resilience not being as effective past 3k could have an effect).

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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Grobian wrote: »
    Just requeue when you go over the stated estimate. Maybe that should be put into the thread title, it's the most important PvP advice right now.
    But then there are those times where you end up having to do this 5 times and end up waiting 20+ minutes anyway. Blizzard needs to fix BG queues; players shouldn't have to rely on a shoddy, inconsistent workaround.

    Also, just keep piling more and more things into 4.1, Blizzard!

    Edit: As for CTF, the've painted themselves into a corner with their lousy design. They have to be careful about putting damage taken debuffs on the flag carrier too heavily and too soon, or any sense of tactics go out the window and the optimal strategy instantly boils down to "tunnel the FC."

    Patch 4.3 wrote:
    In patch 4.3 we’re changing the daily battleground (BG) to reward 100 conquest for a win (up from 25). In addition, every non-rated BG that you win will also give you 50 conquest.
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • JasconiusJasconius bird internet Saint Petersburg RussiaRegistered User regular
    also demonic teleport needs to be banned for warlock flag carriers as long as healing is in its current state

    I present a scenario

    Warlock is pocket healed by 3 healers. Since killing even two of the three healers inside the 30 second spawn window is close to impossible, the warlock is focused.

    Warlock, reaching 40%, drops down to the first story of his base.

    Opposing team now has exactly two options.

    Drop down to try to finish the warlock off and somehow prevent him from teleporting, and in failing to do so, reset the encounter to square 1

    OR

    just stay up there as his healers heal him to 100% from the second story


    not a whole lot of ways for the attacker to win that one unless they have very particular configuration. like silencing shot, a timely CC on a healer, and still quite a bit of burst.

  • TheCrumblyCrackerTheCrumblyCracker Registered User
    Demonic Circle needs to have LOS to work. There are many scenarios where a Warlock has an obvious advantage because of it, and the only counter being a Death Grip.

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    You can't even death grip someone down a ledge anyway, at least not that I've seen. You just get a big ol' "IMMUNE".

    Forcing an LoS requirement on it seems excessive, though, and would nerf warlocks unnecessarily in arena and PvE. Seems like it would be easy enough just to make using it drop the flag where you teleported from if it really is a problem.

    Patch 4.3 wrote:
    In patch 4.3 we’re changing the daily battleground (BG) to reward 100 conquest for a win (up from 25). In addition, every non-rated BG that you win will also give you 50 conquest.
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • Steel-AngelSteel-Angel Registered User regular
    10% healing buff and that utterly ridiculous spirit link totem for resto shams next patch

    wonder if i can level+gear one in time for gladiator

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  • GrobianGrobian Registered User regular
    Well, also the Cleansing Spirits nerf, so it's not only buffs. Where are you getting the 10%, wasn't that hotfixed a while ago or in 4.06 or something? But yes, the totem looks like it will be huge. Did they fix that to not do nature damage or is it still resistible?

    And weren't you playing a frost mage? You guys are also getting buffed in damage and survivability and nerfed (slightly) in control.

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  • Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    Cleansing spirits was always going to get nerfed. I'm amazed it's taken this long. You can argue that 1vs1 means nothing, but it countered dot classes far too well.

    There was a 10% hotfix, but it wasn't applied to all heals. I think Earthshield was one of the things it wasn't applied to, but I'm not sure of others (earthliving procs? cleansing water?). However, I see this 10% buff more of an extention to the hotfix than an actual buff (unless I'm reading it wrong in that another 10% buff is being applied).

    The new totem is going to be great for pvp; espcially larger fights where one person just gets focused down. Considering you can still cast totems when silenced, I can see it's going to be very hard to shut down a resto shaman.

    However, if I'm allowed to complain about my gold shoes being too tight, it's got a 15 (or is it 10?) yard range, so as an emergency cooldown for pve, that range seems somewhat at odds, because typically healers like to hang around with the ranged dps and not close to the melee.

    Frost mage buffs; they supposedly get trained in 3vs3 (I say this, but have no experience of high level arena so I'm just going on what I read), hence the buff in survivability (although I'd argue that some caster classes, are more screwed than frost mages in getting trained). The buff in damage might be the result of pve (again I don't know).

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  • Steel-AngelSteel-Angel Registered User regular
    another 10% buff is being applied for rsham heals.

    frost buffs are barely going to be noticeable, 500-600 extra damage on non-crit frostbolts is a joke

    10% buff to lance damage only applies to FoF and half the time you use those procs for deep freezing the healer

    frost in 3v3 is absolute trash right now with the state of dispels, and it will only have RMP to fall back on next patch since shatterplay variations are no longer viable

    edit: this is not to say frost is underpowered, only that the playstyle is a retarded joke of spamming instants and getting your partner to line up burst in a deepfreeze-ROF-ICS silence on a healer; outside of this combo you have literally no way to deliver pressure

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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Poor mages. It's tough being the best ranged PvP spec. Maybe they can just give the class even more instants!

    Patch 4.3 wrote:
    In patch 4.3 we’re changing the daily battleground (BG) to reward 100 conquest for a win (up from 25). In addition, every non-rated BG that you win will also give you 50 conquest.
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • Steel-AngelSteel-Angel Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    Poor mages. It's tough being the best ranged PvP spec. Maybe they can just give the class even more instants!

    mages aren't the best ranged

    hunters have far more viable comps (PHD, KFC+variants, ret/hunter/healer, etc.)

    warlocks have far more viable comps (WLS, RLS, WLD, LSD2.0, shadowcleave, etc.)

    mages are pigeonholed into RMP and shatterplay+variants, after spriests lose their magic dispel RMP will be the only comp they can run

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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    I guess if you consider more comps superior to fewer, better comps that will let you win more, then maybe, yeah.

    Patch 4.3 wrote:
    In patch 4.3 we’re changing the daily battleground (BG) to reward 100 conquest for a win (up from 25). In addition, every non-rated BG that you win will also give you 50 conquest.
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • Steel-AngelSteel-Angel Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    I guess if you consider more comps superior to fewer, better comps that will let you win more, then maybe, yeah.

    KFC is a better comp than RMP in every way imaginable

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  • formatformat Registered User regular
    Is LSD2 the only good comp for a boomkin?

    You don't know if I am joking or not.
  • Steel-AngelSteel-Angel Registered User regular
    format wrote: »
    Is LSD2 the only good comp for a boomkin?

    for 3s? owlplay works too but it won't after the patch

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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Since it's become completely subjective at this point, whatever class I play is the most persecuted one.

    There, I won the PvP thread.

    Patch 4.3 wrote:
    In patch 4.3 we’re changing the daily battleground (BG) to reward 100 conquest for a win (up from 25). In addition, every non-rated BG that you win will also give you 50 conquest.
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • Steel-AngelSteel-Angel Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    Since it's become completely subjective at this point, whatever class I play is the most persecuted one.

    There, I won the PvP thread.

    no, the most persecuted specs are the ones that are completely nonviable in every set up

    i.e; elemental, destruction, fire

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  • darklite_xdarklite_x I can't find Turner and HoochRegistered User regular
    format wrote: »
    Is LSD2 the only good comp for a boomkin?

    for 3s? owlplay works too but it won't after the patch
    There's seriously a comp called owlplay? One of the things I hated most about arenas were the stupid names that people came up for teams i.e. beastcleave, shatterplay, etc. You know what I did like? RMP. You knew exactly what the fuck it meant. None of this -play or -cleave bullshit.

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    Steam ID: darklite_x Xbox Gamertag: Darklite 37
  • Steel-AngelSteel-Angel Registered User regular
    owlplay = moonkin+spriest+healer

    in general -play refers to spriest comps

    -cleave is just a memetic mutation from GC calling a single melee/healer a cleave team in 2s (which obv doesn't exist)

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  • JasconiusJasconius bird internet Saint Petersburg RussiaRegistered User regular
    naming team builds sounds a little pretentious and dumb

    these aren't MTG decks.

  • Steel-AngelSteel-Angel Registered User regular
    Jasconius wrote: »
    naming team builds sounds a little pretentious and dumb

    these aren't MTG decks.

    well, it's useful shorthand for discussing popular composition strategies

    like you say "need help with shadowcleave vs. KFC" people know what you're talking about

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  • Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    It is a real shame with regards to the state of Elemental. Last expansion, if I got fed up with poor dps in a BG, I'd swap over to Elemental, but now, it's not worth it.

    The loss of Astral Shift and heals costing so (don't get me started about some of the self-healing other classes have; maybe have clearcasting also count towards heals?) much hurt Elemental in a big way, because that was alot of their survivability.

    Then there's a lack of Haste on the pvp kit (a real shock I know, considering Blizz's record on Elemental kit) meaning it's pretty easy to lock down an Elemental when they're casting Lightening Bolt; if an Elemental casts CL, he's going to go oom, and without Flameshock (what healer isn't going to dispel this?), Lava Burst isn't what it used to be.

    Then there's the Earthbind roots effect being bugged (as in, despite being well over the hit cap, I see it miss), so it's probably similar to hunter traps.

    Fulmination could help with giving some more damage, but how often is an elemental shaman going to get a big stack of Lightening shields; maybe change the Lightening shield glyph to mean you don't lose any orbs when hit?

    Earthquake; I know it's not a pvp skill, but the 10% stun attached to it seems rather odd, because I thought Blizz made an effort to get rid of random stuns (eg: Blackout).

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  • JasconiusJasconius bird internet Saint Petersburg RussiaRegistered User regular
    The random stuns I thought was specifically melee focused... because it was forcing everyone to spec for maces and get dumb weapon-centric talents.

    Earquake is a cooldown TAoE spell with a low proc for stun. You can't get much more esoteric than that in terms of stuns.

    I feel bad for Shaman. Their itemization is pretty boned with this streamlining stuff. Your healing gear has been shoehorned into DPS gear, and you're sharing agi mail with hunters who don't really have to worry about any kind of spell hit cap as far as I know and I am imagining have fairly different stat priorities. (other than agi, duh).

    They are due for the kind of cleansing revamp that Paladins got in 2.0.

    OR

    Ghostcrawler will come on his flaming chariot and make interrupts less stupid, which I am all for.






    While I am in the PVP thread... why are hunters bitching about their Arena prowess? Every single 2's team I have faced with a hunter in it has kicked my fucking ass. As in, not even close. You'd think that Rogues would be among the classes that should have their number... but I've been getting decimated by them. Unable to stay behind them and dying as fast or faster than what a good feral druid or arms warrior might do to me.

    Exactly which class do they have a hard time with now that everyone else doesn't? Their toolbox is huge.

  • Steel-AngelSteel-Angel Registered User regular
    hunters don't bitch about their pvp prowess post buffs

    bad hunters do but they always have since you need like 85 keybinds to play a hunter reasonably well

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  • JasconiusJasconius bird internet Saint Petersburg RussiaRegistered User regular
    This is very true. And I kinda liked what one of those Dev QA's said about them... or at least what it implied, which is that the effectiveness gap between good and bad hunters is gigantic.

    And I'm guessing most of it is due to the sheer volume of useful skills.

    I had a 60 hunter in classic and enjoyed the hell out of it, but I'll be damned if I had enough fingers or buttons to use everything effectively. Post revamp I have no idea what to even do, so I started a new one from scratch last week.

    I mean... really... with ranged traps, non-talented scatter shot, no-cost conc shots, a disengage that actually works, non-cost wing clip, white damage on the move... christ... how could it get better for them?

  • formatformat Registered User regular
    I think the only counter to a hunter team is a better hunter team. They can kite like no other while damaging on the move, disengage pretty much at will, turn off incoming damage, root from range, you have to be really unlucky to miss a scatter/trap, remove roots/slows often. I can't think of a class that really counters any of that.

    A DK is probably the closest.

    edit: or a team that can spit hot fire damage like a mage/rogue

    You don't know if I am joking or not.
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Jasconius wrote: »
    The random stuns I thought was specifically melee focused... because it was forcing everyone to spec for maces and get dumb weapon-centric talents.
    No, it was focused on everyone. Shadow priests had Blackout for random stuns, fire mages had the old Impact that gave Fire Blast a random stun, Hunters had Imp Concussive Shot for a random stun, etc.

    Patch 4.3 wrote:
    In patch 4.3 we’re changing the daily battleground (BG) to reward 100 conquest for a win (up from 25). In addition, every non-rated BG that you win will also give you 50 conquest.
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • TheCrumblyCrackerTheCrumblyCracker Registered User
    I think I am a pretty great Hunter. My problem as of late has been pressuring good teams. If their is a Plate wearing DPS / healer I am basically SOL. I can kite DKs and Paladins almost indefinitly if their healer is not supporting them, but I also can't put out enough DPS as Marksman.

    Then you bring in the Dalaran Arena box issue or just LOS issues and general and I want to rip my face off. This last week I had 4 8+ minute matches between Plate DPS and Healer comps. I can't put out enough dps in Fox, and I can't switch to Hawk because it means I am going to take a ton of dps.


    @Jaconuis, it's not like the mana cost of those abilities was ever an issue before. My hunter does have about 2x the # of key binds then my DK or Warrior or Druid does currently.

    Ignoring my main abilities (Aimed, Concusive, Steady, Arcane, Tranq, MS, Serpent)
    Spoiler:

    I think I missed some..

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Crumbly, why does switching to Hawk mean you take a ton of DPS? Is it just that the other team doesn't pressure you when they see you in Fox and switches to you when they see you in Hawk? Or what am I missing?

    Patch 4.3 wrote:
    In patch 4.3 we’re changing the daily battleground (BG) to reward 100 conquest for a win (up from 25). In addition, every non-rated BG that you win will also give you 50 conquest.
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • TheCrumblyCrackerTheCrumblyCracker Registered User
    It's 2000 AP. Nothing to laugh at when I am hitting on a Plate Wearer. Usually I switch over to cobra while keeping the Imp SS buff up for the haste bonus because Cobra just hits harder. It doesn't cost me anything to swap back in forth, but in order to keep pressure up I need to A) be at range and B) be doing as much damage as possible. Fox allows me to do A at the cost of B.

    My 2s partner is a druid, something I probably should have mentioned, so generally I am the primary focus because he stays prowled until he has to come out.

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    I don't think that really clarified my confusion.
    I can't put out enough dps in Fox, and I can't switch to Hawk because it means I am going to take a ton of dps.
    What does that part mean? I didn't think there was anything about Fox/Hawk that directly increased/decreased your survivability.

    Patch 4.3 wrote:
    In patch 4.3 we’re changing the daily battleground (BG) to reward 100 conquest for a win (up from 25). In addition, every non-rated BG that you win will also give you 50 conquest.
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • TheCrumblyCrackerTheCrumblyCracker Registered User
    Being in melee with any melee class greatly decreases my survivability. I need to regen my focus to use my primary damaging abilities. If someone is in melee with me my only focus regen options are either to get out of melee or hit their partner.
    If I swap to Hawk I gain the 2k RAP, but I have to stand still to regen focus. It's a trade off of damage for mobility. If someone catches up to me in melee I am sure you know what happens next :P

    I need to bind Cobra / Steady to fox. A lot of the more serious PvPers have macros to swap to Hawk to cast Arcane Shot, then swap back when they need to cast steady. I'm probably going to work on those this weekend.

  • JasconiusJasconius bird internet Saint Petersburg RussiaRegistered User regular
    If someone catches up to me in melee I am sure you know what happens next :P

    You scatter shot, disengage and blow the fuck out of them?

    That's what has been happening to me.

  • TheCrumblyCrackerTheCrumblyCracker Registered User
    Scattershot is better used for traps. I usually just Masters Call + Darkflight rogues.

    Edit: I don't have problems with anything other then Plate. Hunter's have always been the Rogues counter. We have had flare since vanilla.

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    But you can still move just the same with Hawk up. You just have to make the decision not to St/Co Shot and not get as much focus. Your mobility hasn't changed at all between the aspects, only the shots you can use.

    I didn't realize you could macro the aspects to the various shots like that to conditionally switch like that. I should probably look into that if I ever take my hunter PvPing.

    Patch 4.3 wrote:
    In patch 4.3 we’re changing the daily battleground (BG) to reward 100 conquest for a win (up from 25). In addition, every non-rated BG that you win will also give you 50 conquest.
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • TheCrumblyCrackerTheCrumblyCracker Registered User
    Passive focus regen is abysmal. You NEED to be shooting St/Co in order to keep pressure up on a target. This is why Fox is a must.

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    I didn't say that Fox wasn't a must.

    Patch 4.3 wrote:
    In patch 4.3 we’re changing the daily battleground (BG) to reward 100 conquest for a win (up from 25). In addition, every non-rated BG that you win will also give you 50 conquest.
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • JasconiusJasconius bird internet Saint Petersburg RussiaRegistered User regular
    Yeah I would say right now Hunters are #1 A+ my hardest opponent in 2's.

    My team is Rogue/Rogue, I'll grant you.

    But so far our opposition difficulty descending looks something like:

    1) Hunter/Anything
    2) Disc Priest/Almost Anything
    3) Shadow Priest/(Melee or Healer)
    4) Other rogue/druid assortments
    5) DK's

    ...

    Dead Last) Warlocks

    The only warlock comp that we have lost to was a demo lock/DK combo that just stayed in their spawn and spammed AOE and split their pet stuns between us. Otherwise, Warlocks are priority target #1.

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