AJE is reporting protests and riots in Baghdad and Basrah as well. In Baghdad, the Green Zone has been barricaded off and soldiers are searching protesters entering Liberation Square (but they are not stopping the protesters). In Basrah, rioters are knocking down concrete slab barricades somewhere.
AJE Summary
Eastern Libyan cities controlled by protesters, fighting in Tripoli
Iraq - Day of Rage over food and water shortages
Egypt - protesters are still out there, now demanding fast reform from the military
Yemen - Rally in Aden, demanding the President step down. President has said he will step down in two years, but not before then.
Tunisia - protests in support of Libya and demands to have government officials stand down who were allies of Ben Ali.
alexsandels RT @yvonneridley: Doc tells Sky #Gaddafi men beat up #Tripoli hospital docs & ripped up blood bags as they tried to treat seriously injured protestors #feb17
stember #TRIPOLI UNARMED PROTESTORS BEING MASSACRED SECURITY FORCES NOW - UN NATO ICC INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY DOING NOTHING !!! #libya #feb17 #obama
all4libya RT @AliTweel: Updated: #tripoli #map and #places where actions happened so you understand where are we and what is going on.. http://twitpic.com/43mj5a
mouita The resigned interior minister asking other #Libya ns cities to head to #Tripoli and join its people.
Supporting17Feb 25 killed in Souq al-Jumaa suburb in eastern Tripoli; 63 in Tajoura east of Tripoli #libya #tripoli #feb17
dophin11 RT @majda72: BBC: has heard reports of protestors marching on #Tripoli and that parts of the military have joined them #Libya #feb17
saskiaiserief RT @Libyan4life: #Tripoli is in heavy battle right now. We'll continue to keep you updated. Plz keep us in your prayers.
Franzys999 RT @libyansrevolt: demonstrators left tajura area and marched towards soog eljum3a area - mowed down by bullets near elhaany bridge #libya #tripoli #feb17
Giovannadarco28 RT @feb17voices: LPC #Tripoli: Eyewitness says some of the security forces are joining the protesters. #Libya #Feb17
Qaddafi is in public in the Green Square addressing what appear to be his own supporters in Tripoli. Says they will die on the soil of Libya. Says they will defeat the foreign influence. General babbling nonsense. "Qaddafi is one of you! Dance and sing! Joy and rejoice!"
Aaaand he's done talking.
This man's fucking nuts.
Armored Gorilla on
"I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
New radio stations and other news outlets have emerged in eastern Libya where opponents of Colonel Muammar Gaddafi have seized control.
A new daily newspaper - called Libya - has appeared in the country's second city Benghazi, where residents have been celebrating their ''liberation'' with huge demonstrations.
And two opposition-controlled radio stations, thought to be using the transmitters of Libyan state radio that have fallen into opposition hands, have been heard from neighbouring countries.
"Radio Free Libya from the Green Mountain" - presumed to be beaming from al-Bayda - has been urging other Libyan cities to join the "revolution".
Libyan activists have been using a separate, web-based radio to broadcast phone calls from opposition supporters. Their location is unknown and broadcasts have been intermittent.
This budding media scene is in sharp contrast to the environment created by Col Gaddafi in the decades since he came to power in 1969. Under his restrictions newspapers and broadcasters have exercised self-censorship and according to the media rights body Reporters Without Borders, press freedom has been "virtually non-existent".
...
Meanwhile, the changes in eastern Libya appear to have encouraged established news media to adjust. The Benghazi-based Quryna daily has started to report on the unrest - though it has not been taking sides. There have been reports that the paper has been seized by protesters.
The Libyan government has declared foreign journalists working in the eastern areas without official sanction ''outlaws''.
New radio stations and other news outlets have emerged in eastern Libya where opponents of Colonel Muammar Gaddafi have seized control.
A new daily newspaper - called Libya - has appeared in the country's second city Benghazi, where residents have been celebrating their ''liberation'' with huge demonstrations.
And two opposition-controlled radio stations, thought to be using the transmitters of Libyan state radio that have fallen into opposition hands, have been heard from neighbouring countries.
"Radio Free Libya from the Green Mountain" - presumed to be beaming from al-Bayda - has been urging other Libyan cities to join the "revolution".
Libyan activists have been using a separate, web-based radio to broadcast phone calls from opposition supporters. Their location is unknown and broadcasts have been intermittent.
This budding media scene is in sharp contrast to the environment created by Col Gaddafi in the decades since he came to power in 1969. Under his restrictions newspapers and broadcasters have exercised self-censorship and according to the media rights body Reporters Without Borders, press freedom has been "virtually non-existent".
...
Meanwhile, the changes in eastern Libya appear to have encouraged established news media to adjust. The Benghazi-based Quryna daily has started to report on the unrest - though it has not been taking sides. There have been reports that the paper has been seized by protesters.
The Libyan government has declared foreign journalists working in the eastern areas without official sanction ''outlaws''.
This is encouraging.
In some respects. A parallel state emerging with somewhat natural geographical boundaries really tilts this further in the direction of civil war.
Qaddafi is in public in the Green Square addressing what appear to be his own supporters in Tripoli. Says they will die on the soil of Libya. Says they will defeat the foreign influence. General babbling nonsense. "Qaddafi is one of you! Dance and sing! Joy and rejoice!"
Aaaand he's done talking.
This man's fucking nuts.
There is method to his eccentricity sometimes. I am not saying that he is alright but calling him mad is an oversimplification. Just realize he kept himself in power for quite a while now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQigGyTj-0o
Egypt4Egyptians RT @veniviedivici: @AlanFisher Norwegian pilot Aud Berger, one of the Gaddafi's private pilots, escaped #Tripoli to Austria according to Mena news agency
laroquod RT @arasmus: Map http://bit.ly/hGtqiV now showing lethal violence in neighborhoods in East #Tripoli & on path to Martyr/Green Square. #libya #feb17
AlxMalta #AJE caller states that #Tripoli streets are empty except for security forces and pro Gaddafi demo in Green Sqr. No sign of protestors
Pao__Yu RT @AlArabiya_Eng: UN rights council recommends suspension of Libya from body #alarabiya #Gaddafi #Tripoli #Benghazi #Feb17
gjmorley RT @ibntarabulus: Reports from #Tripoli pro #gaddafi interning hospitals killing wounded and dumping bodies into the sea via military boats #Libya #feb17
nonarabarab RT @feb17voices: LPC #Tripoli: #Gaddafi forces shooting protesters at close range, "they just shoot, they don't care." #Libya #Feb17
Kty51 RT @AlArabiya_Eng: Libyan UN envoy says Libya's oil industry is "under the good control of people" and won't be harmed #alarabiya #Gaddafi #Tripoli #Feb17
aliloon RT @calperryAJ: US Embassy in #Tripoli officially suspends all activity. According to #Malta ATC: airspace closed across #Libya except Tripoli. Here we go.
There's also a trend of posting instruction books in Arabic on how to treat head wounds, abdominal injuries, etc, all with the #tripoli or #libya tags.
Armored Gorilla on
"I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
0
Options
HakkekageSpace Whore Academysumma cum laudeRegistered Userregular
There is method to his eccentricity sometimes. I am not saying that he is alright but calling him mad is an oversimplification. Just realize he kept himself in power for quite a while now.
No, he's pretty pants on head crazy, but dangerous pants on head
I can offer a shred of personal experience to support this view of the Libyan leader as an unstable and menacing person. In the early 1980s, I traveled to Tripoli with several other journalists hoping to interview Gaddafi. When the appointed date arrived, we were taken to a large hall, frisked several times and then made to wait for the "mercurial" leader, the euphemism reporters used in those days to describe the Libyan strongman.
First, Gaddafi's bodyguard blew into the room brandishing his automatic weapon. He was barefoot and had wild, unkempt hair and was genuinely scary-looking, even by Middle East-bodyguard standards.
Then came Gaddafi. He marched straight toward me (was it the fact that I worked in those days for the Wall Street Journal?), stopped about a foot from my face and stared at me with bulging, bloodshot eyes. Then he shouted something in Arabic to his aides and bolted from the room, never to return. Sorry, no interview, his terrified aides told us.
It was one of the oddest encounters I've had as a journalist. Honestly, I thought at the time that Gaddafi was high on drugs. Those eyes were popping with unnatural intensity. And he had a self-dramatizing manner that was unusual, even for a Third World dictator.
Thousands of people protesting in Iraq now too. I think it's fair to say that if the US had never gone into Iraq in 2003, they Iraqis would likely be kicking Saddam and his family out now.
Because it worked so well the last time they tried it.
Qaddafi is in public in the Green Square addressing what appear to be his own supporters in Tripoli. Says they will die on the soil of Libya. Says they will defeat the foreign influence. General babbling nonsense. "Qaddafi is one of you! Dance and sing! Joy and rejoice!"
Aaaand he's done talking.
This man's fucking nuts.
There is method to his eccentricity sometimes. I am not saying that he is alright but calling him mad is an oversimplification. Just realize he kept himself in power for quite a while now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQigGyTj-0o
Islamic, neo-Nasserist and neo-Ottoman forces will mold the Middle East.
Neo-Nasserist, now there's a new term. I could definitely see it happening; though I'm sure it would be called something different, though pan-arabism doesn't have much of a ring to it. If Egpyt succeeds in throwing off its shackles it will return to its place of prominence in the Arab world. In a large way it has already done so, certainly it has to those countries with protests and uprisings underway. The border between Egypt and Libya is already "fluid" to say the least. Egpytians or others can cross into Libya pretty freely to aid the rebels there. Egyptian military units could do the same.
Speaking of which, I haven't heard much from the Arab league while this has been going on. Granted they're a pretty powerless organization, I'm surprised I haven't seen it come up though.
Not really interesting, but obvious mixed with stupid labels.
The first one is the 'Arab Street', the bull is the Arab Youth, the Iranian one is obvious, the green book is the Green Book. Oh and Cupid is what would happen to cupid if he tried to shoot arrows at anyone on VDay.
I doubt it somehow, Spain can't do anything unless someone else pays for it. Plus it's already been said Europe is incapible of acting without NATO, NATO has already decided not to get involved. That would seem to be the end of it.
I doubt it somehow, Spain can't do anything unless someone else pays for it. Plus it's already been said Europe is incapible of acting without NATO, NATO has already decided not to get involved. That would seem to be the end of it.
That article just says that Spain is lowering their speed limit to conserve fuel. Like the US did during one of the oil shocks. That doesn't necessarily mean that they (or any European nation) are going to commit troops to stablize the sweet sweet oil supply. I mean, democracy.
Thousands of people protesting in Iraq now too. I think it's fair to say that if the US had never gone into Iraq in 2003, they Iraqis would likely be kicking Saddam and his family out now.
Help me out. What exactly are they protesting?
Government corruption and a lack of public services.
Oh the list goes on; not breaking down on secterain army leaders even though the clashes never actully stopped, romurs of the more secular of the two candidates losing because the other side played the polls and high-way security is very bad and its killing city to city trade.
My uncle has a duel US/iraqi nationality, voted for Obama and Ayad Allawi and still go there three months a year and he that he haven't met anyone who is genuinly ok with the way things are.
I also do not consider that a weakness, on the contrary. The second world war certainly left a lasting impression in Europe. Yes, we are very, very careful and thus a little slow to take action, but we like it that way.
Awesome, we've found someone who can speak for the entire of Europe! Get thee to Brussels, they've been looking for you for some time.
For the record, for the nth million time I'm not an American so not everyone in Europe likes it that way, and by "a little slow to take action" I think you mean "incapable of agreeing to do anything". I also wonder how you somehow think the millions from Russia and the US who died in WW2 didn't leave an impression on those countries...?
I also do not consider that a weakness, on the contrary. The second world war certainly left a lasting impression in Europe. Yes, we are very, very careful and thus a little slow to take action, but we like it that way.
Awesome, we've found someone who can speak for the entire of Europe! Get thee to Brussels, they've been looking for you for some time.
For the record, for the nth million time I'm not an American so not everyone in Europe likes it that way, and by "a little slow to take action" I think you mean "incapable of agreeing to do anything". I also wonder how you somehow think the millions from Russia and the US who died in WW2 didn't leave an impression on those countries...?
To be fair, the US only lost 500,000, which in the context of the hundreds of millions that died during that period is really small. I think the fact we've never lost as much to war as the rest of the world can desensitize us to its effects.
How does this psychological theory you just made up square away the fact that the country that had the most casualties in World War I started World War II?
Europe basically got burned to the ground twice in one century. The US just came in and swept up afterwards.
So yeah I'd say Europe knows the horrors of war a little better than the US
That "knowledge" at this point isn't a personal connection by the population of Europe to events that happened more than 60 years go, it's political aversion.
Having been a refugee of war, and actually knowing the horrors of war, I don't really see the majority of Europeans as my peers in this.
Europe basically got burned to the ground twice in one century. The US just came in and swept up afterwards.
So yeah I'd say Europe knows the horrors of war a little better than the US
That "knowledge" at this point isn't a personal connection by the population of Europe to events that happened more than 60 years go, it's political aversion.
Having been a refugee of war, and actually knowing the horrors of war, I don't really see the majority of Europeans as my peers in this.
Oddly enough, most of your peers in this would probably be Soldiers who have actually served in an active combat zone.
The threat of getting your ass shot off, blown off, or stabbed off, makes you want to not go to war for anything less than a GODDAMN good reason.
I doubt American soldiers like the murder of innocent civilians as much as the next person. Probably less, but I bet you dollars to donuts they would not want to go and "restore order" to Libya.
Edit: Especially as its an undefined mission, which we already have two of currently. Unfortunately, the guys who give the marching orders don't exactly have to risk their ass on the front-line.
It doesnt mattee who's right or why. They're still right
Yeah, but you shouldn't accept them as right just because of where they come from or what they have done. You take a look at their position, analyze it independently and think for yourself. Judge each situation individually.
And now that this has degenerated into tautologies, how bout that middle east?
How is Libya going. Last I heard, the rebels were taking towns like popcorn.
Tripoli next!
The Pakistani protests are very interesting as well. An American guns down Two "Robbers". This sparks massive protests. Struck a very-deep cord with the Pakestanis, tired of American interfence with their government. They feel we keep them down, keep them from being a stronger power. Probably true.
We do a lot of interfering in that area and have meddled in their government extensively. The drone strikes have not exactly been.... well lets face it, the drone strikes would be casus belli, except that the Pakistani military knows that the only pressure they can exploit is diplomatic pressure, because nukes or no, we could roll their whole country up in a month or two. That's with two wars and an overstretched fatigued American Military.
But part of me also feels like "Hey guys, I can't blame you for wanting to get rid of American influence, I really can't." (I don't mind American influence [speaking as an American] when its at the level of the UK or France. Favor trading, diplomacy, bribery. The level of influence we use on Middle Eastern and 3rd world countries has us looking like thugs, which tends to dampen long-term prospects. Which is a whole nother argument).
Anyway, I almost want to say "Hey guys, I can't blame you for wanting to get rid of American influence, I really can't. You want to be a regional power, go for it. But I recommend you be VERY careful about how you do it. You have India and China on either side of you. Piss them off and you will find that we WERE the cuddly, friendly option. Especially compared to China."
It doesnt mattee who's right or why. They're still right
Yeah, but you shouldn't accept them as right just because of where they come from or what they have done. You take a look at their position, analyze it independently and think for yourself. Judge each situation individually.
I'd go farther.
Individual experiences need to be carefully separated from international or national policy.
You can find all types of wars throughout history that were morally justified/unjustified, or practical/impractical. But what we tend to do is judge every possible international or national policy decision by comparing it to the last policy decision we made that we superficially perceive as similar.
Before we went to Iraq the only thing people kept bringing up was the first Gulf War as a comparison of why we should or shouldn't do it. And then after we were in Iraq it morphed into a discussion of how like/unlike Vietnam it is. And this is by people who had personal experience with each war and by people who googled them. That kind of narrow analysis by the everyman doesn't enlighten the subject.
Posts
Security personel had raided the house he was in; the homeowner was the one who disconnected the line out of fear; looks like the scare has passed.
AJE Summary
Eastern Libyan cities controlled by protesters, fighting in Tripoli
Iraq - Day of Rage over food and water shortages
Egypt - protesters are still out there, now demanding fast reform from the military
Yemen - Rally in Aden, demanding the President step down. President has said he will step down in two years, but not before then.
Tunisia - protests in support of Libya and demands to have government officials stand down who were allies of Ben Ali.
http://twitterfall.com/ - search on #Tripoli
Qaddafi is in public in the Green Square addressing what appear to be his own supporters in Tripoli. Says they will die on the soil of Libya. Says they will defeat the foreign influence. General babbling nonsense. "Qaddafi is one of you! Dance and sing! Joy and rejoice!"
Aaaand he's done talking.
This man's fucking nuts.
In some respects. A parallel state emerging with somewhat natural geographical boundaries really tilts this further in the direction of civil war.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110224/ap_on_re_af/af_somalia
I guess Somalia feels left out or something...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrEsCywO29c
Very good.
There is method to his eccentricity sometimes. I am not saying that he is alright but calling him mad is an oversimplification. Just realize he kept himself in power for quite a while now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQigGyTj-0o
There's also a trend of posting instruction books in Arabic on how to treat head wounds, abdominal injuries, etc, all with the #tripoli or #libya tags.
No, he's pretty pants on head crazy, but dangerous pants on head
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2011/02/gaddafi_time_to_stand_up_to_li.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
NNID: Hakkekage
Desert strike! Awesome!
Not really interesting, but obvious mixed with stupid labels.
Yeah, Jordan, get some! Slow build-up, but I can wait.
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
That's Omar Mukhtar, famous leader of Libyan resistance against the Italians.
I like it.
I doubt it somehow, Spain can't do anything unless someone else pays for it. Plus it's already been said Europe is incapible of acting without NATO, NATO has already decided not to get involved. That would seem to be the end of it.
That article just says that Spain is lowering their speed limit to conserve fuel. Like the US did during one of the oil shocks. That doesn't necessarily mean that they (or any European nation) are going to commit troops to stablize the sweet sweet oil supply. I mean, democracy.
Government corruption and a lack of public services.
My uncle has a duel US/iraqi nationality, voted for Obama and Ayad Allawi and still go there three months a year and he that he haven't met anyone who is genuinly ok with the way things are.
...what? Haaretz?
Not exactly an "ultra Israeli" news site. If anything, I'd bet they were against the recent U.S. veto.
Edit: Like this. Where are you getting "ultra Israeli" and what does that even mean?
Israeli = Bad
Awesome, we've found someone who can speak for the entire of Europe! Get thee to Brussels, they've been looking for you for some time.
For the record, for the nth million time I'm not an American so not everyone in Europe likes it that way, and by "a little slow to take action" I think you mean "incapable of agreeing to do anything". I also wonder how you somehow think the millions from Russia and the US who died in WW2 didn't leave an impression on those countries...?
To be fair, the US only lost 500,000, which in the context of the hundreds of millions that died during that period is really small. I think the fact we've never lost as much to war as the rest of the world can desensitize us to its effects.
So yeah I'd say Europe knows the horrors of war a little better than the US
That op-ed is Israel-centric to the point of irrelevance. That's all
Having been a refugee of war, and actually knowing the horrors of war, I don't really see the majority of Europeans as my peers in this.
Oddly enough, most of your peers in this would probably be Soldiers who have actually served in an active combat zone.
The threat of getting your ass shot off, blown off, or stabbed off, makes you want to not go to war for anything less than a GODDAMN good reason.
I doubt American soldiers like the murder of innocent civilians as much as the next person. Probably less, but I bet you dollars to donuts they would not want to go and "restore order" to Libya.
Edit: Especially as its an undefined mission, which we already have two of currently. Unfortunately, the guys who give the marching orders don't exactly have to risk their ass on the front-line.
But my point is to knock the "wise European" cliche.
Oh yeah, only wise European I believe in is Terry Pratchett.
Yeah, but you shouldn't accept them as right just because of where they come from or what they have done. You take a look at their position, analyze it independently and think for yourself. Judge each situation individually.
And now that this has degenerated into tautologies, how bout that middle east?
How is Libya going. Last I heard, the rebels were taking towns like popcorn.
Tripoli next!
The Pakistani protests are very interesting as well. An American guns down Two "Robbers". This sparks massive protests. Struck a very-deep cord with the Pakestanis, tired of American interfence with their government. They feel we keep them down, keep them from being a stronger power. Probably true.
We do a lot of interfering in that area and have meddled in their government extensively. The drone strikes have not exactly been.... well lets face it, the drone strikes would be casus belli, except that the Pakistani military knows that the only pressure they can exploit is diplomatic pressure, because nukes or no, we could roll their whole country up in a month or two. That's with two wars and an overstretched fatigued American Military.
But part of me also feels like "Hey guys, I can't blame you for wanting to get rid of American influence, I really can't." (I don't mind American influence [speaking as an American] when its at the level of the UK or France. Favor trading, diplomacy, bribery. The level of influence we use on Middle Eastern and 3rd world countries has us looking like thugs, which tends to dampen long-term prospects. Which is a whole nother argument).
Anyway, I almost want to say "Hey guys, I can't blame you for wanting to get rid of American influence, I really can't. You want to be a regional power, go for it. But I recommend you be VERY careful about how you do it. You have India and China on either side of you. Piss them off and you will find that we WERE the cuddly, friendly option. Especially compared to China."
Individual experiences need to be carefully separated from international or national policy.
You can find all types of wars throughout history that were morally justified/unjustified, or practical/impractical. But what we tend to do is judge every possible international or national policy decision by comparing it to the last policy decision we made that we superficially perceive as similar.
Before we went to Iraq the only thing people kept bringing up was the first Gulf War as a comparison of why we should or shouldn't do it. And then after we were in Iraq it morphed into a discussion of how like/unlike Vietnam it is. And this is by people who had personal experience with each war and by people who googled them. That kind of narrow analysis by the everyman doesn't enlighten the subject.