As a WI state employee (but not a teacher), even with this happening I have hard time imagining a general strike that shuts down all governmental services. There are really just a lot of apathetic employees out there. I am looking forward to seeing what the teachers do and how long they plan on shutting the schools down for though.
Does Wisconsin have a mechanism for forcing this thing into referendums like Ohio does? That seems like the best option, combined with winning the upcoming supreme court election and pushing it up the judicial ladder.
If Wisconsin doesn't strike tomorrow, I don't know what the fuck. Like Emp said, with the Republican Senators and Governor claiming multiple times that it was a budget issues, I don't see how the courts could not destroy it instantly, but I also don't know anything about the make-up of Wisconsin judges and their Supreme Court. This needs to be used by every Democratic election committee everywhere for the next 10 election cycles. Start now. Start fast and don't let up. Let people know who's really fucking them.
"Using tactics that trample on the traditions of our Legislature, the Republican leadership has betrayed our state. Republicans have rubber-stamped the desire of the Koch Brothers and their godshead Scott Walker to cripple Wisconsin's middle class and lower benefits and wages for every single wage-earner in our state. The vote does nothing to create jobs, does nothing to strengthen our state, and shows finally and utterly that this never was about anything but raw political power. We now put our total focus on recalling the eligible Republican senators who voted for this heinous bill. And we also begin counting the days remaining before Scott Walker is himself eligible for recall."
"In thirty minutes, 18 State Senators undid fifty years of civil rights in Wisconsin. Their disrespect for the people of Wisconsin and their rights is an outrage that will never be forgotten. Tonight, 18 Senate Republicans conspired to take government away from the people. Tomorrow we will join the people of Wisconsin in taking back their government."
Armored Gorilla on
"I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
I'm extending a heartfelt hug to everyone on PA (and every sane person, really) living in one of the many utter shit states in the US. I am so sorry. Hang in there, things will be better once the archaic assholes die out.
At this point four years ago, both parties were in full in campaign mode.
This yeah, you have an very unmotivated republican base who can even name a candidate combined with a very motivated democratic base who is going to be very pissed pissed off. Any claim of "But Obama didn't keep every promise" can be countered with "Yeah, but if we return the republicans to office, they will do everything in their power to fuck us all over."
Democrats need to capitalize on this to start building up momentum for 2012. The downside is they probably won't gain many Senate seats, since they already made a lot of gains in 2006. But they should be able to get a lot of house seats back, and they can start charging more fights at the state level.
BTW, one of the major ironies of Wisconsin is how libertarians are in favor of Walker, while simultaneously arguing that states rights are awesome because states give the public greater say. Even though Walker just fucked over his own local voters.
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
edited March 2011
If the Dems can ride this bullshit to take the House back after 2 years I will laugh and laugh and laaaauuuugggh.
I'm extending a heartfelt hug to everyone on PA (and every sane person, really) living in one of the many utter shit states in the US. I am so sorry. Hang in there, things will be better once the archaic assholes die out.
/hug
People always say this.
I become further convinced that the "archaic assholes" just raise younger asshole heirs to take their place.
I'm extending a heartfelt hug to everyone on PA (and every sane person, really) living in one of the many utter shit states in the US. I am so sorry. Hang in there, things will be better once the archaic assholes die out.
/hug
People always say this.
I become further convinced that the "archaic assholes" just raise younger asshole heirs to take their place.
See: O'Keefe, James
I know. I would classify Fox News as one of the most harmful organizations in the world right now because of its ability to brainwash more ignorant people to the corporate cause.
I just think (hope) that the stupid is diluted somewhat each passing generation, and I think there does exist some evidence to support that. In America this process is slow, however.
I...just don't know what else to hope for. The only other option is to move—which is obviously not feasible (or desirable) for a lot of people.
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No-QuarterNothing To FearBut Fear ItselfRegistered Userregular
I'm extending a heartfelt hug to everyone on PA (and every sane person, really) living in one of the many utter shit states in the US. I am so sorry. Hang in there, things will be better once the archaic assholes die out.
/hug
People always say this.
I become further convinced that the "archaic assholes" just raise younger asshole heirs to take their place.
See: O'Keefe, James
Or they get so fed up with their parent's bullshit and hypocrisy's that they pull a 180 and turn out to be like Reagan's son.
If the Dems can ride this bullshit to take the House back after 2 years I will laugh and laugh and laaaauuuugggh.
Unfortunately, that won't be the case. If I've learned anything from politics, it's that the GOP have a way of packaging a position and pitching it to the people that the Democrats will never be able to touch. The Dems have many different sub-groups and positions amongst them, and can't toe a party line like the Republicans. I actually like this. It sucks that the message is lost because of it, but it means that they are actually thinking and doing what they believe in, even if the rest of the Dems don't agree.
I'm a democrat, but I've stopped giving credit or being hopeful at all of them growing a pair.
If the Dems can ride this bullshit to take the House back after 2 years I will laugh and laugh and laaaauuuugggh.
Unfortunately, that won't be the case. If I've learned anything from politics, it's that the GOP have a way of packaging a position and pitching it to the people that the Democrats will never be able to touch. The Dems have many different sub-groups and positions amongst them, and can't toe a party line like the Republicans. I actually like this. It sucks that the message is lost because of it, but it means that they are actually thinking and doing what they believe in, even if the rest of the Dems don't agree.
I'm a democrat, but I've stopped giving credit or being hopeful at all of them growing a pair.
Most of us haven't been alive long enough to see Labor mobilized.
Well I guess, at the very least we can be thankful that Walker was stupid enough not to do this immediately and let this entire thing blow up into something that people on the other side of the planet are paying attention to. Hopefully the ire and motivation this caused in democrats won't vanish too soon.
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
FITZGERALD Well if they flip the state senate, which is obviously their goal with eight recalls going on right now, they can take control of the labor unions. If we win this battle, and the money is not there under the auspices of the unions, certainly what you’re going to find is President Obama is going to have a much difficult, much more difficult time getting elected and winning the state of Wisconsin.
FITZGERALD Well if they flip the state senate, which is obviously their goal with eight recalls going on right now, they can take control of the labor unions. If we win this battle, and the money is not there under the auspices of the unions, certainly what you’re going to find is President Obama is going to have a much difficult, much more difficult time getting elected and winning the state of Wisconsin.
If the Dems can ride this bullshit to take the House back after 2 years I will laugh and laugh and laaaauuuugggh.
Unfortunately, that won't be the case. If I've learned anything from politics, it's that the GOP have a way of packaging a position and pitching it to the people that the Democrats will never be able to touch. The Dems have many different sub-groups and positions amongst them, and can't toe a party line like the Republicans. I actually like this. It sucks that the message is lost because of it, but it means that they are actually thinking and doing what they believe in, even if the rest of the Dems don't agree.
I'm a democrat, but I've stopped giving credit or being hopeful at all of them growing a pair.
If all that was true, we wouldn't have a black dude in the White House right now.
It happened before, it can happen again. And every year the old white folks that make up a sizable chunk of the GOP's most reliable voting base passes to generational turnover. Meanwhile the GOP's popularity with young people nation-wide is abysmal. There is no future for the party currently.
The heinous political dinosaur that is the modern day GOP is going extinct-it's zenith was during the 80's, the Bush era was a hiccup as shortlived as it was intense, and spurred on almost entirely by reactionary forces. In the aftermath, the current GOP is in the same shape that the Democrats were in after Jimmy Carter. Who do GOP have to look up to, let alone fucking lead? Mitt? Newt? Huck? Palin?
So my concern isn't the dinosaur going extinct, its how much damage it'll cause in its death thrashings. Not to sound overly dramatic (too late) but this clusterfuck in Wisconsin is indicative of that.
So wait, I'm watching Maddow's piece on the passage of this bill, talking about how the methods for voting and such that resulted in passage were downright illegal, not just against the legislative rules. Wouldn't this allow for a lawsuit against the bill?
I've got a test at 12:30 and it's a half hour bus ride to class and back to the capitol. I will probably be there from about 8am to 12, then 2 to when ever I feel like going home.
i try to view american politics purely as entertainment but then I do silly things like read about the battle of blair mountain again and then think how unions are viewed in the US today and get angry
Id be more inclined to do this if I didnt live in the United States.
Well having literally the entire pacific ocean in the way does help, yes.
People have rioted for a whole hell of a lot less then this.
I'm honestly surprised this hasn't happened yet.
I mean goddamn. You Wisconsinites out there must be some really chill folks.
Before, I could understand. They were being poked and prodded and treated like shit but their wasn't anything particularly foul going on that you wouldn't expect of dickish political antics.
This thing though? steamrolling this through legislation? Yeah I can see people storming the governors mansion and throwing him down the steps.
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ArchonexNo hard feelings, right?Registered Userregular
People have rioted for a whole hell of a lot less then this.
I'm honestly surprised this hasn't happened yet.
I mean goddamn. You Wisconsinites out there must be some really chill folks.
Before, I could understand. They were being poked and prodded and treated like shit but their wasn't anything particularly foul going on that you wouldn't expect of dickish political antics.
This thing though? steamrolling this through legislation? Yeah I can see people storming the governors mansion and throwing him down the steps.
It wouldn't even be so bad, if it wasn't so blatant that the governor just doesn't give a shit about his people.
This is about accumulating a bit more power and maybe, money. That's it.
In a way, the guy's no different from some third world dictators. He and his friends have circumvented the established political system in every way possible, in order to try and get what they want passed. The only difference here is that the person in question isn't in a position of absolute power, so he does have some rules he does have to follow.
People like him should not be in office. Period. End of story. I don't give a shit what bullshit excuse one of his supporters (Not that he likely has many left that aren't GOP/Repub elected officials at this point.) gives.
There's no way to justify bait and switch politics, advocating harassing the people who have (legitimate) grievances against you, for destroying their livelihoods, or willfully ignoring the fact that you're essentially crippling your state to give your side a (possible) edge in elections at some point in the future.
Also. Did anyone mention that, after the 7.5 million cost to fix the marble was mentioned (Which was also false. Or as we in the fact checking business call it, "bullshit". Turns out that someone quoted a "rough" estimate going off of their own (uninformed) knowledge. The real price was more around the $300,000 range.), one of the unions offered to repair the damage for free?
Bit of irony, that. Especially since it was quietly declined to keep the Republicans and Governor from losing face. And to give them a "legitimate" grievance against the protesters.
For some reason, i'm being reminded of Jack Thompson, and his "make a game" contest. Where he refused to pay up to charity after someone (Actually, multiple someones.) actually did make the game he wanted. It's that same sort of dirty politics where you try and pretend someone didn't call you on your bluff, in order to make yourself look better to your supporters.
You know for as much shit as people give police(often times deserved). The State/Madison police have really done a stellar job making sure everyones safe without inciting an incident.
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
The heinous political dinosaur that is the modern day GOP is going extinct-it's zenith was during the 80's, the Bush era was a hiccup as shortlived as it was intense, and spurred on almost entirely by reactionary forces. In the aftermath, the current GOP is in the same shape that the Democrats were in after Jimmy Carter. Who do GOP have to look up to, let alone fucking lead? Mitt? Newt? Huck? Palin?
I've heard this before. And as much as I want to see the finale of this point of view, it remains that the GOP has, time and time and time again, risen from practically nothing. I want to believe this is the opening act of an eleventh hour death struggle, but this is scanning to me as yet another Fred Sanford-esque fit. In 2025, the GOP will still be around, espousing anomalous family values as means for passing legislation that controls and limits the rights and means of the public and controls the way the public is able to interact with everything else.
One question, and it may be a poor one, but I want to know exactly how poor it really is. The apparent lack of leadership of the GOP right now. I mean, it's all apples and oranges, but Anonymous has no leaders, fuck all for resources, and is going quite a bit (admittedly via the internet) for a group in such condition. Why wouldn't the leaderlessness of the GOP service similar potential? Especially with their ridiculous wealth and influence, and the misdirected banners of ingrown conservatism that rally their base, time after time?
Huck is running full crazy right now, taking one for the team to attract the worst elements of the party and, by comparison, make all other Republican candidates appear tame and reasonable by comparison in the public narrative. It's hard to tell what Palin will do, but you can be sure at the least she'll function as a fund raising element for 2012, and I could see her waiting as a hatchetman to zone in on whatever candidate needs to be dismantled or distracted enough to lose favor and image in the primaries.
I fully expect Newt Gingrich to appear, re-imagined as a 'classic' Republican, a legitimate figure from a bygone era back to restore the 'true' conservative message to the country.
FYI, The Ed Show on MSNBC has 10 of the 14 to talk about what's happened. MSNBC uploads most of it's shows to it's website, so if you can't catch it now, you can catch it probably by tomorrow morning.
Armored Gorilla on
"I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
Posts
Recalls for nearly every republican in the state is realistic as of this evening.
And we'll know by monday if there will in fact be a general strike. I'd even bet cock eating status that there will be one
Membership in public unions outnumbers membership in private unions.
Hopeless Gamer
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
/hug
At this point four years ago, both parties were in full in campaign mode.
This yeah, you have an very unmotivated republican base who can even name a candidate combined with a very motivated democratic base who is going to be very pissed pissed off. Any claim of "But Obama didn't keep every promise" can be countered with "Yeah, but if we return the republicans to office, they will do everything in their power to fuck us all over."
Democrats need to capitalize on this to start building up momentum for 2012. The downside is they probably won't gain many Senate seats, since they already made a lot of gains in 2006. But they should be able to get a lot of house seats back, and they can start charging more fights at the state level.
BTW, one of the major ironies of Wisconsin is how libertarians are in favor of Walker, while simultaneously arguing that states rights are awesome because states give the public greater say. Even though Walker just fucked over his own local voters.
People always say this.
I become further convinced that the "archaic assholes" just raise younger asshole heirs to take their place.
See: O'Keefe, James
I know. I would classify Fox News as one of the most harmful organizations in the world right now because of its ability to brainwash more ignorant people to the corporate cause.
I just think (hope) that the stupid is diluted somewhat each passing generation, and I think there does exist some evidence to support that. In America this process is slow, however.
I...just don't know what else to hope for. The only other option is to move—which is obviously not feasible (or desirable) for a lot of people.
Or they get so fed up with their parent's bullshit and hypocrisy's that they pull a 180 and turn out to be like Reagan's son.
Unfortunately, that won't be the case. If I've learned anything from politics, it's that the GOP have a way of packaging a position and pitching it to the people that the Democrats will never be able to touch. The Dems have many different sub-groups and positions amongst them, and can't toe a party line like the Republicans. I actually like this. It sucks that the message is lost because of it, but it means that they are actually thinking and doing what they believe in, even if the rest of the Dems don't agree.
I'm a democrat, but I've stopped giving credit or being hopeful at all of them growing a pair.
That's some reason to hold out hope here.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
I feel like this is what's going on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En8IKTJEHTk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLJdijPEBJE
Once again, their goal has never been to balance the budget. It was always to destroy the unions and weaken the Democrats chances of winning in 2012.
As much as it would suck terribly for any students, I'm really hoping there's a proper strike.
There are many others like it, but this one is mine.
ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
If all that was true, we wouldn't have a black dude in the White House right now.
It happened before, it can happen again. And every year the old white folks that make up a sizable chunk of the GOP's most reliable voting base passes to generational turnover. Meanwhile the GOP's popularity with young people nation-wide is abysmal. There is no future for the party currently.
The heinous political dinosaur that is the modern day GOP is going extinct-it's zenith was during the 80's, the Bush era was a hiccup as shortlived as it was intense, and spurred on almost entirely by reactionary forces. In the aftermath, the current GOP is in the same shape that the Democrats were in after Jimmy Carter. Who do GOP have to look up to, let alone fucking lead? Mitt? Newt? Huck? Palin?
So my concern isn't the dinosaur going extinct, its how much damage it'll cause in its death thrashings. Not to sound overly dramatic (too late) but this clusterfuck in Wisconsin is indicative of that.
Well having literally the entire pacific ocean in the way does help, yes.
kpop appreciation station i also like to tweet some
I'm honestly surprised this hasn't happened yet.
I mean goddamn. You Wisconsinites out there must be some really chill folks.
Before, I could understand. They were being poked and prodded and treated like shit but their wasn't anything particularly foul going on that you wouldn't expect of dickish political antics.
This thing though? steamrolling this through legislation? Yeah I can see people storming the governors mansion and throwing him down the steps.
It wouldn't even be so bad, if it wasn't so blatant that the governor just doesn't give a shit about his people.
This is about accumulating a bit more power and maybe, money. That's it.
In a way, the guy's no different from some third world dictators. He and his friends have circumvented the established political system in every way possible, in order to try and get what they want passed. The only difference here is that the person in question isn't in a position of absolute power, so he does have some rules he does have to follow.
People like him should not be in office. Period. End of story. I don't give a shit what bullshit excuse one of his supporters (Not that he likely has many left that aren't GOP/Repub elected officials at this point.) gives.
There's no way to justify bait and switch politics, advocating harassing the people who have (legitimate) grievances against you, for destroying their livelihoods, or willfully ignoring the fact that you're essentially crippling your state to give your side a (possible) edge in elections at some point in the future.
Also. Did anyone mention that, after the 7.5 million cost to fix the marble was mentioned (Which was also false. Or as we in the fact checking business call it, "bullshit". Turns out that someone quoted a "rough" estimate going off of their own (uninformed) knowledge. The real price was more around the $300,000 range.), one of the unions offered to repair the damage for free?
Bit of irony, that. Especially since it was quietly declined to keep the Republicans and Governor from losing face. And to give them a "legitimate" grievance against the protesters.
For some reason, i'm being reminded of Jack Thompson, and his "make a game" contest. Where he refused to pay up to charity after someone (Actually, multiple someones.) actually did make the game he wanted. It's that same sort of dirty politics where you try and pretend someone didn't call you on your bluff, in order to make yourself look better to your supporters.
I've heard this before. And as much as I want to see the finale of this point of view, it remains that the GOP has, time and time and time again, risen from practically nothing. I want to believe this is the opening act of an eleventh hour death struggle, but this is scanning to me as yet another Fred Sanford-esque fit. In 2025, the GOP will still be around, espousing anomalous family values as means for passing legislation that controls and limits the rights and means of the public and controls the way the public is able to interact with everything else.
One question, and it may be a poor one, but I want to know exactly how poor it really is. The apparent lack of leadership of the GOP right now. I mean, it's all apples and oranges, but Anonymous has no leaders, fuck all for resources, and is going quite a bit (admittedly via the internet) for a group in such condition. Why wouldn't the leaderlessness of the GOP service similar potential? Especially with their ridiculous wealth and influence, and the misdirected banners of ingrown conservatism that rally their base, time after time?
Huck is running full crazy right now, taking one for the team to attract the worst elements of the party and, by comparison, make all other Republican candidates appear tame and reasonable by comparison in the public narrative. It's hard to tell what Palin will do, but you can be sure at the least she'll function as a fund raising element for 2012, and I could see her waiting as a hatchetman to zone in on whatever candidate needs to be dismantled or distracted enough to lose favor and image in the primaries.
I fully expect Newt Gingrich to appear, re-imagined as a 'classic' Republican, a legitimate figure from a bygone era back to restore the 'true' conservative message to the country.
Sorry, got a little OT.
live video from inside
edit: Gorilla Actually Wins, Cause Livestream.com can handle the traffic.
Live-stream inside the Wisconsin Capitol. Warning: Loud.
Edit: TINWHISKERS!!!!
There are many others like it, but this one is mine.