Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it,
follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given
their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!
Gamestop's policy of destruction (trashing boxes and manuals)
Posts
Besides, aren't most sales of a game the first two weeks or so its been released? And typically you don't find used copies of it in that period.
Generally, it's 48 hours. At least that's what it used to be... not sure now.
The reason we don't have sweetass manuals like that any more is because of people like you who can't be bothered to read them. The ADD generation has led to the majority of games shipping in a box containing nothing more than a disc and a single sheet of paper with a Steam code on it.
Blizzard manuals were always awesome, though. The original Diablo manual was practically a novel on it's own.
Thanks for assuming I am the ADD generation and that that somehow means anything, at all. The reason they don't have manuals like that anymore is because game boxes are smaller, and most people don't give a shit about manuals, and the ones that do can go online and read about lore all they want.
It isn't that people don't have the attention span for manuals, it is that they are fucking useless. Why the hell should you have to read a manual on how to play a game? That is the opposite of fun, that is what I do when I am installing parts onto an aircraft, that is fucking work.
Ah yes, the ADD generation which is wholly responsible for gaming popularity in the first place.
I store my games on shelves; I need a case to do this.
I also always read the manual before playing any game; 1) I enjoy it, 2) There's always SOMETHING that doesn't get mentioned in-game, and 3) I play older games more often than newer games, I usually can't get away with not reading the manual first, so it's become default practice for me.
Even with Steam games, I always right-click and look for a "view manual" option. If it's not there, I go to the store page and see if there's a link for it. If THAT doesn't have it, I check replacementdocs.com. If they don't have it, I start Googling. No bullshit.
When you buy as many games as I do, $10 makes a big difference, too. Actually, $10 is my average buying price, not savings. I can be VERY patient. I don't think I've ever paid more than 35 for any game. If I pay 35 it means I really couldn't wait, very rare occurance.
I don't sell games after playing them, unless I ended up hating it, so I don't have the luxury or recouping any of what I spent. I have to buy in at a very low price. Does this mean that I have to pretty much stay a generation behind? Yes, but it also means I have plenty of games to play and actually spend more time gaming than any of my friends or coworkers. I just have to try to catch up as fast as I can (if that's even possible).
It's good to hear that some GS stores are not doing this. Yet. It's still tough knowing that some have started.
I reluctantly agree about GBA boxes. The cardboard does scream, "Throw me out." I'm sure this was the same mentality with NES/SNES/N64.
"I think the common gamer is the one to blame here." They certainly don't help.
I think that a good manual adds to the immersion, take for example Fallout 1. I know that isn't for everyone, though.
It kind of reminds me of when PC games would come in those "double-wide" DVD cases. WHY? They take up more than twice the space of normal DVD cases but house the same sort of product. It was so dumb.
This is a pretty minor offense in my book. Now if you want to argue about the gutting of new games, I'd be happy to get all up-in's on that.
|Xbox Live Tag: Omeks
|PSN Tag: Omeks_R7
|Rock Band: Profile|DLC Collection
It's the same reason I bought a 2e book despite never playing 2e and most likely never WILL play it. Sure the actual HOW PLAY stuff is useless to me, but there's still 6 other chapters full of awesome fluff.
More capsuleers should look as cool as I do.
Syrupdwellings ٩๏̯͡๏)۶
but really I think the last time I used a manual was castlevania cotm a decade ago to figure out how to use the DSS. oh and to get my golden sun password for the next game.
as for cases I have a DS game case. it fits 6 games in 1/4 the size of one DS game case.
Every so often you'll get a great manual that's fun to read. The Super Mario RPG manual comes to mind. Mainly because Luigi was being a self-depreciating wonderful in it. But even those great manuals usually only get read and appreciated by a small part of the people who play those games. Then you get the games that have manuals that are really pretty pointless. For example, I just pulled Modern Warfare 2's manual out to take a look at:
9 pages. Most of which is covered in the tutorials/loading screens, or is just plain common knowledge. Anything after page 6 is is "notes" and license agreement mumbo jumbo. Manuals like these are a waste of paper, and let's face it, most manuals these days, at least, are like this.
Don't get me wrong, a game without some kind of manual almost feels "empty" to me, but given the state of manuals these days, I completely understand why Gamestop would want to ditch them if it means saving money.
|Xbox Live Tag: Omeks
|PSN Tag: Omeks_R7
|Rock Band: Profile|DLC Collection
Not to go off on a tangent, but this is absolutely true.
But, between you and me, this:
Will always be better than "manual.pdf".
That's what game boxes used to look like. But now, instead of something like this:
or this:
We get something like this:
This guy, he gets it.
Anyway, has anyone asked their local GameStop if this is a new chainwide policy, or just something a few stores have started doing to clear some space?
Starsiege's manual was this big spiral-bound book that covered just about everything in the game.
But the thing is that modern games have plenty of storage space for informative tutorials while the cost of printing neat manuals is relatively expensive. It wouldn't be much of a problem except for the fact that collector's or special editions tend to come with crappy content; there are a lot of games I would happily pay an extra 5-10 dollars for if it meant I got a well-done manual with plenty of backstory.
As for how this relates to Gamestop trashing manuals, well, it's stupid but that's Gamestop. They're in the business of making money from used games, not archiving video game history for future generations. Pretty much all you can do is complain about the practice and shop somewhere else when they refuse to change their procedures.
Amazon kicks their ass when it comes to pre-orders. Larger retailers give me a better deal on major releases than Gamestop. Niche titles (the kinda thing you go to a specialty store for) are rarely in-stock unless you pre-order.
Logistics is one of the most expensive facets of manufacturing and selling material goods. Being able to have all that content in a digital repository is one of the great advancements society has. There's no reason to be wasteful and create it in the first place, and when it has been created there's no reason to waste logistical resources to ship, store and otherwise manage it.
When was the last time a developer released a good printed manual? Closest thing are the extras that come with special editions of games.
Most Nintendo games still come with high quality, full color manuals filled with artwork. Though that's not quite the same thing as the old PC games that came with "feelies," detailed maps and back story, etc.
Like all the awesome flavor in the Diablo/Diablo 2 manuals.
"Video game hoarding" is not a problem. Generally a single bookshelf can support at least three consoles' worth of games for your average moderately obsessed forum-goer, and a bookshelf or two isn't the same thing as the massive risks to health and well-being you see from actual hoarders.
Nintendo Network ID: unclesporky
I'm also someone who takes meticulous care of his games. I still have the original NES Zelda and Mario 3 complete in box.
Massive Crystal Cavern!
I had way more fun reading the Master of Orion 3 manual than playing the game. Though that wasn't a terribly high bar to clear.
Actually, if you ring it up, the price will be below the new one. They're really good about this. They just fail to change the price sticker.
PSN & XBL - OFRunner | SS FC - 3782 1420 3176 DIA FC - 2150 0629 4353 | Steam ID | LoL
This. There might be only 3 copies used of UFC 10 in a store, but there were, at a time, 30+ new copies just sitting there three months after it came out.
In this instance you'd see the new price go on sale cheaper.
I remember going in and trying to buy Assassin's Creed on release day and they said they didn't have any non-preorder copies available. I was so pissed that I cancelled my Mass Effect preorder and never bought from them again. If they couldn't be bothered to stock enough copies of games which went on to sell in the millions, I can't be bothered to waste my time there.
Forget nerd-hate, I just have conventional consumer hate for Gamestop. I really can't think of a store which is less customer-friendly and manages to stay profitable.
I think they stopped doing that, precisely because everyone who didn't pre-order was doing the same thing you did.
As much as they try to convince you otherwise, there is absolutely no reason to pre-order 99% of the shit that gets released. Unless it's a special/collector's edition or some super niche import RPG there will be thirty copies of it at the [INSERT NAME OF DEPARTMENT STORE HERE] that is across the parking lot from GameStop.
This is why they started lobbying the shit out of developers to start initiating GameStop exclusive pre-order bonuses, which got other stores to start lobbying the shit out of developers to initiate exclusive preorder bonuses for them, and now you can't get the entirety of a game unless you buy it three times from three different places [/hyperbole].
But yeah, I would never shop there otherwise. I'm still a little pissed about the Software Etc. that gutted some of my GBA purchases from like 10 years ago (dammit I want the shrink wrap - I don't trust you guys). I sure as hell am not going to buy a used game with no case or manual for $5 cheaper than new (and probably the same price or higher than a new copy from anywhere BUT GameStop)
Well it worked, because now I only buy games from Amazon or Gamestop online, solely for the neat bonuses.
Nintendo Network ID: unclesporky
Gotta disagree there, only about 1 in 4 of the games I buy are available at department stores (and I buy a LOT of games) and even then they show up a week later then at Gamestop.
If you want a fetish property (the collectible aspects of the game), buy it from a specialist or buy it new, even if it's a bit pricier. If you want lowest-common-denominator stuff (the game itself, cheap, and now), buy from a lowest-common-denominator chain store.
Gamestop is offering to sell you X for $Y. If you want X+A, be prepared to pay $Y+B.
By virtue of the fact that you (a collective you, nobody in particular) are (a) posting in this thread, and (b) contemplating making a purchase, I surmise that you (a) have internet access, and (b) have money. This means that you can purchase a complete game online that contains the manual and the box. If you care about the manual and box and you purchase a non-manual/non-box copy from gamestop, it is either because you are more interested in saving money by purchasing a cheaper version from gamestop, or are more interested in saving time by purchasing a conveniently-located version from gamestop. You have made a decision that the box and manual are less important to you than the saved money/time.
There are countless reasons to be upset with gamestop. This is not one of them.
One reason I think they would never do that is because as clumsy and space-wasting as DS cases are, they're going to stick out a lot more to consumers then if they package them in a tiny flash card case.
Don't get me wrong, I would love for Nintendo to package games in tiny cases, but in an advertising sense, it probably wouldn't work for them.
|Xbox Live Tag: Omeks
|PSN Tag: Omeks_R7
|Rock Band: Profile|DLC Collection
Thats why they could sell them in the same cardboard packets that SD cards are sold in. You don't see SD cards sold in tiny little cases on a shelf either.
Plus, this would also allow them to pack several games together and sell them, rather than just drop prices when sales are reaching the long tail.
Thats why they could sell them in the same cardboard packets that SD cards are sold in. You don't see SD cards sold in tiny little cases on a shelf either.
Plus, this would also allow them to pack several games together and sell them, rather than just drop prices when sales are reaching the long tail.
Plus when something is really small it makes people move in and take a closer look, therefore ignoring the competition.
Gamestop does not sell used DS games with box/manual.
Target sells the ability to listen to music; gamestop sells the ability to play the game.
Also, it is extremely common for used vinyl/cd's to come in generic cardboard packages due to the destruction/loss of the original packaging.
Target selling "music" doesn't mean they sell vinyls. Just as GameStop selling "the ability to play a game" doesn't somehow mean they sell Atari games or Arcade machines or what-have-you.
It's a bad analogy
I will concede that it's not the best vendor to have been used in the analogy, but I couldn't think of any chain B&M pure music stores that haven't gone under yet, and I didn't want to use an example from 15 years ago that the majority of people here wouldn't recognize.
However, I disagree that it's a bad analogy, because the entire point of the analogy is that X store doesn't sell Y, even though Y is still readily available elsewhere (at a presumed premium of either cost or time investment).
The point of the analogy is that if you are looking for games or music cheap-and-now, you go to gamestop or target (or whatever other chain stores you want to name). If you are looking for pristine fetish property, you go to somewhere where that is the value, such as a collector's vinyl store or a collector's game store (or the internet, which might as well be both of those things).
GameStop selling "the ability to play a game" also doesn't somehow mean that they sell used versions of these games that include all the original boxes and manuals. They offer the game, by itself, for sale for less than the price of the game plus manual plus box. I am also fairly confident, given the fact that we are talking about things that are only a handful of years old at most, that they would be willing to offer the service of obtaining a new copy of the game, complete with box/manual, for an additional fee, shipped straight to your house. If they won't, many other people will.
While I am well aware of the profit margin GameStop enjoys on their used games business, look at it like this:
The people running GameStop are not in it for the love of games, they're in it for the love of money, which is almost definitely a verifiable fact to anyone willing to shell up the couple bucks for a copy of their charter from the secretary of state. They will attempt to maintain their profit margin to the extent possible, because their executives have a fiduciary responsibility to do so.
They were faced with a choice between keeping the manuals/boxes (while paying to store them) or destroying them. In order to fulfill their obligations with regards to profit, this means that they would either charge X for the game itself, or X+Y for the game plus extra materials (Y being added to offset the additional costs).
If they had announced that they will be adding a $5 surcharge to all used games to pay for the overhead involved in maintaining storage for these additional materials (whether or not you want the additional materials), there would be outrage.
They chose to keep prices slightly lower than they otherwise would have needed to by not storing these materials.
GameStop is in no way preventing anyone from obtaining collector-grade materials if they so choose - they are readily available via the internet to anyone willing to pay a premium in time and/or money to obtain them. GameStop is selling to the lowest common denominator, because that's how they maximize profit. They are a store that offers games conveniently and (relatively) cheaply. They do not have a monopoly on games distribution. Anyone concerned with the quality of the packaging of their game should shop somewhere that is also concerned with the quality of the packaging of their game, rather than becoming upset that the cheapest and easiest isn't exactly what they want.
The cheapest and easiest option is the cheapest and easiest option because it cuts corners. Packaging/manuals are a corner. Vote with your wallet.
As an aside, I am annoyed at the fact that this thread is making me do something very close to defending GameStop. I would like to state for the record that I do not like them or their practices (including this practice), and have not given them my money for years.
*raises hand*
I'm pretty sure it's on its way. It would happen faster if everyone who was upset about this particular change actually backed it up and shelled out the extra buck or waited a couple days to get it from a non-cut-corner source.
*high-fives*
Not to mention the shoplifting potential...
...unless they attached them to a big cardboard backing and nigh-impossible to open plastic shell.
And that just brings us back to the whole "waste" thing, arguably in an even worse way.