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Cry Havok and let loose the dogs of the [Military Thread]

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Posts

  • Brian KrakowBrian Krakow Registered User regular
    Looks like I'm too neurotic anyways. Thanks guys.

  • TraceofToxinTraceofToxin King Nothing Registered User regular
    VeritasVR wrote: »
    They get a bad rap because they're not under the DoD, but they still have a tough job. It's more police work than foreign war.

    Really? I thought the 5 branches fell under DoD. Learn something new every day.

    Everyday I wake up is the worst day of my life.
    Buy my 40k shit.
  • VeritasVRVeritasVR Registered User regular
    Oftentimes the Coast Guard is more dangerous than the other branches because they have to deal with violent domestic/border drug wars.

    CoH_infantry.jpg
    Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
  • CptKemzikCptKemzik Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    @Brian_Krakow My insight is going to be limited (and potentially incorrect) RE Coast Guard because all my knowledge is from growing up with a dad who served in the CG for 20 odd years (fyi he actually went to the CG Academy for college before serving), and asking him at one point how realistic it is to join up as a reserve/part time officer. From what I've heard from him and other places the CG has become one of the most competitive branches, if not the most in some circumstances, on top of how difficult it has become to join across all branches the past few years.

    I'm assuming your degree will put you at some sort of advantage with advancing/promotions as an enlisted recruit, however that credential would probably be "hampered" somewhat in comparison to joining as an officer via OCS - which of course is going to be more difficult to get into. Also once you're in and you don't have a clear idea of what to work in or where to serve, it is likely that you would be pulled into an undesirable deployment like port security abroad (given that most people try to join the CG to both stay in the US while deployed, and near a coast, this may be changing however since we've pulled out of Iraq). Also while the coast guard does some pretty intense operations, don't assume you'll be making daring maritime rescue attempts in storms, or serving on a cutter to monitor borders and drug trafficking; it's just as likely you could end up doing mundane things like maintaining buoys or sitting at a desk pushing paper so as always it is best to maintain some realism with expectations.

    CptKemzik on
  • Brian KrakowBrian Krakow Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Oh, yeah, I wouldn't expect to do anything glorious. I would like to serve on a boat, though, for at least some period of time. Ideally, I would be a Marine Science Technician, which sounds kind of like an EPA inspector at sea, but obviously there would be a lot of cleaning/painting/whatever needs to be done work.

    It's probably moot, though, since I'd need a medical waiver to join. And given that the CG isn't desperate need of recruits, that seems pretty unlikely. I guess I should probably talk to a recruiter to make sure, though.

    Brian Krakow on
  • Iceman.USAFIceman.USAF Captain East CoastRegistered User regular
    VeritasVR wrote: »
    They get a bad rap because they're not under the DoD, but they still have a tough job. It's more police work than foreign war.

    Really? I thought the 5 branches fell under DoD. Learn something new every day.


    They now fall under the Dept of Homeland Security. Previous to that, it was the Department of Transportation.



  • TraceofToxinTraceofToxin King Nothing Registered User regular
    VeritasVR wrote: »
    They get a bad rap because they're not under the DoD, but they still have a tough job. It's more police work than foreign war.

    Really? I thought the 5 branches fell under DoD. Learn something new every day.


    They now fall under the Dept of Homeland Security. Previous to that, it was the Department of Transportation.

    I don't think I've ever even had a conversation about the CG outside of offhand comments with coworkers. I've never known anyone in the CG, never been briefed on anything involving CG, never read more than a news snippet about them.

    They're like maritime Batmen.

    Everyday I wake up is the worst day of my life.
    Buy my 40k shit.
  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    Amusing story, Last Thursday the Coast Guard took my work truck for the day to remove some barbed wire.

  • spookymuffinspookymuffin ( ° ʖ ° ) Speicher, GermanyRegistered User regular
    They're pretty much the US Pirates. A couple Coasties were in my hazmat class, and I asked them all kinds of questions about what they do and all that. Their job was about 5 different AFSCs rolled into one position. Loadmaster, sheet metal repair, crew chief, cargo loader/unloader, load planner (kinda), I think one or two more. They did basically everything but fly the plane. One of em was doing patrols up in Alaska (sea rescue work for crab fishermen), and the other was somewhere in California boarding ships to prevent drugs and illegals from entering the country. They're part of DHS, which has almost the same benefits as DoD, including quirky things like your spouse doesn't get half your retirement should you divorce.

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  • Limp mooseLimp moose Registered User regular
    I went through flight school with several CG helo pilots. I have thought about transferring out of the navy to fly for them. More SAR and less ISR. But you join the CG as a LTJG regardless of military rank if you are higher than LTJG so F that. I don't want the massive pay cut. They have great duty stations though and the job is pretty exciting day to day. Not like spending 6 months out at sea flying in circles.

  • TaranisTaranis Must be the feeling, it brings to you That makes you do what you doRegistered User regular
    Limp moose wrote: »
    I went through flight school with several CG helo pilots. I have thought about transferring out of the navy to fly for them. More SAR and less ISR. But you join the CG as a LTJG regardless of military rank if you are higher than LTJG so F that. I don't want the massive pay cut. They have great duty stations though and the job is pretty exciting day to day. Not like spending 6 months out at sea flying in circles.
    You lose both rank AND pay grade if you transfer? That seems very counter productive.

    nerosig_zps80ae1f48.png
    steam / mwo: calverin
  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Two weeks left til' commissioning with no orders. One employer loves my Senior Design project. I hope he hires me.

    Cantido on
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  • ZonugalZonugal Freelance Bio-Exorcist Adam Maitland's Model TownRegistered User regular
    I rarely post in H/A, but I felt this warranted a venture into your helpful lands.

    Lately, about a month or so, I have been considering a possible future in the navy. I graduated college a year ago and while my degrees (Philosophy and Film Production with a minor in Ethics) could be useful in the civilian world I think my skills in either could possibly be enhanced further in the military.

    So I guess my question (possibly for @Quid) is what could I look forward to possibly doing with an education background like that within a branch like the navy?

    Beetlejuice_sig.jpg
  • TinTin Registered User
    I'm not 100% since it's the navy, but at least in the AF, your degree and college education have no factor in the job you perform (unless it's something like medical or legal). You tell your recruiter which job(s) you'd be interested in, and they tell you which ones (if any) on your list are available that you qualify for. You go to school for the job, then when you graduate from your training, that's your job.

    I know english majors that got jobs in communications, I know computer science majors that got jobs working in civil engineering. Because officers are generally in a management position, they just need to know how to manage, what they went to school for is irrelevant.

  • QuidQuid The Fifth Horseman Registered User regular
    Tin's right. I'm sure they'll consider your degree, but it's not necessary for it to be related to your job. Film Production might get you an edge for media, but otherwise they'll just need someone with a degree to fill X job. So long as you meet the requirements for that job you should be able to go for it.

    PSN: allenquid
  • VeritasVRVeritasVR Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Not true. In the Air Force, "technical" AFSCs for line officers require a technical degree that matches the job function. There's a whole table that lists corresponding degrees to specific AFSCs. For example, Scientist (61 S/A) and Developmental Engineer (62 E) are not open to any educational background.

    If you have a "non-tech" degree or you're applying for a "non-tech" or rated position, it becomes less of a factor.

    VeritasVR on
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    Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
  • QuidQuid The Fifth Horseman Registered User regular
    The Navy's the same for certain jobs but I lumped those in with things "like medical or legal".

    PSN: allenquid
  • LukaszLukasz Registered User regular
    Very soon I will be too old to join the military.

    Oh, well.

  • ZonugalZonugal Freelance Bio-Exorcist Adam Maitland's Model TownRegistered User regular
    Tin wrote: »
    I'm not 100% since it's the navy, but at least in the AF, your degree and college education have no factor in the job you perform (unless it's something like medical or legal). You tell your recruiter which job(s) you'd be interested in, and they tell you which ones (if any) on your list are available that you qualify for. You go to school for the job, then when you graduate from your training, that's your job.

    I know english majors that got jobs in communications, I know computer science majors that got jobs working in civil engineering. Because officers are generally in a management position, they just need to know how to manage, what they went to school for is irrelevant.

    When you say "on your list," & "that you qualify for," do you mean after I would take some sort of equivalence/aptitude test?

    if so, could you tell me a little about it?

    Beetlejuice_sig.jpg
  • VeritasVRVeritasVR Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    The Navy's the same for certain jobs but I lumped those in with things "like medical or legal".

    I would agree, except those are not line officer jobs.

    CoH_infantry.jpg
    Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
  • QuidQuid The Fifth Horseman Registered User regular
    VeritasVR wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    The Navy's the same for certain jobs but I lumped those in with things "like medical or legal".

    I would agree, except those are not line officer jobs.

    A few of the unrestricted jobs in the Navy aren't but aren't degree dependent either. So long as I have my degree finished in the next few years I also likely won't be a line officer.

    PSN: allenquid
  • TinTin Registered User
    Zonugal wrote: »
    When you say "on your list," & "that you qualify for," do you mean after I would take some sort of equivalence/aptitude test?

    if so, could you tell me a little about it?
    I'm enlisted so take what I say with a grain of salt, I can only relay what I've seen. It looks like there are some officers in this thread that may be able to give information from firsthand experience.

    When I said that you qualify for, I meant that there should be an aptitude test (AF uses AFOQT, Army apparently uses the ASVAB, not sure about Navy), and there may be physical requirements. For example, in my career field, you can't be color blind. Different jobs may have other requirements like vision or hearing must be better than X, or must be able to lift more than X weight, or must not have certain medical condition.

    When I said on your list, I was referring to the fact that you usually don't ask for just one job. You tell them 4-5 jobs that you'd be interested in doing, and they try to match that with what the service needs. If you don't qualify for job #1, and the service doesn't need any junior officers in job #2 right now, you might get job #3.

    If you are really interested in joining, talk to a recruiter. If the Navy is anything like the AF, they have a document that lists all of their jobs, along with a description of some of their normal duties, and the requirements for getting it. Just be sure to tell the recruiter that you want a commission or he may try to talk you into enlisting, and a degree won't mean anything if you enlist.

  • Iceman.USAFIceman.USAF Captain East CoastRegistered User regular
    I'm pretty sure the AFOQT is the Air Force Officers Qualifying Test, and that the AF uses the ASVAB for enlistee's like the other branches.



  • YoshuaYoshua Registered User regular
    Taranis wrote: »
    Limp moose wrote: »
    I went through flight school with several CG helo pilots. I have thought about transferring out of the navy to fly for them. More SAR and less ISR. But you join the CG as a LTJG regardless of military rank if you are higher than LTJG so F that. I don't want the massive pay cut. They have great duty stations though and the job is pretty exciting day to day. Not like spending 6 months out at sea flying in circles.
    You lose both rank AND pay grade if you transfer? That seems very counter productive.

    Rank and pay grade are basically the same thing, at least in the military. You might have two ranks per pay grade to denote someone in a command position as opposed to someone to who is not, but they would still be considered the same rank and paid the same.

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  • TaranisTaranis Must be the feeling, it brings to you That makes you do what you doRegistered User regular
    Yoshua wrote: »
    Taranis wrote: »
    Limp moose wrote: »
    I went through flight school with several CG helo pilots. I have thought about transferring out of the navy to fly for them. More SAR and less ISR. But you join the CG as a LTJG regardless of military rank if you are higher than LTJG so F that. I don't want the massive pay cut. They have great duty stations though and the job is pretty exciting day to day. Not like spending 6 months out at sea flying in circles.
    You lose both rank AND pay grade if you transfer? That seems very counter productive.

    Rank and pay grade are basically the same thing, at least in the military. You might have two ranks per pay grade to denote someone in a command position as opposed to someone to who is not, but they would still be considered the same rank and paid the same.

    I know, but it is possible to lose rank and keep your grade. For example officers that opt into the Army's pilot program keep their grade if it grants higher pay even though becoming a warrant officer would technically be a demotion. It's also possible through judicial punishment to lose rank but not grade. While rank and grade are usually synonymous, it is possible for the two not to coincide.

    nerosig_zps80ae1f48.png
    steam / mwo: calverin
  • spookymuffinspookymuffin ( ° ʖ ° ) Speicher, GermanyRegistered User regular
    That doesn't really make sense. It sounds like you're talking about position instead of grade.

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  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    I'm pretty sure the AFOQT is the Air Force Officers Qualifying Test, and that the AF uses the ASVAB for enlistee's like the other branches.

    Not that the test wasn't bad, but I screwed up horribly on the simplest part of the test. The one with the tables, which is hard to do on a tiny damn desk.

    Cantido on
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  • VeritasVRVeritasVR Registered User regular
    That doesn't really make sense. It sounds like you're talking about position instead of grade.

    If it's not this

    paychart.jpg

    then DFAS doesn't care.

    CoH_infantry.jpg
    Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
  • spookymuffinspookymuffin ( ° ʖ ° ) Speicher, GermanyRegistered User regular
    Interesting, I wasn't aware the prior enlisted officer pay stopped at O3.

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  • TaranisTaranis Must be the feeling, it brings to you That makes you do what you doRegistered User regular
    That doesn't really make sense. It sounds like you're talking about position instead of grade.

    How does it not make sense? If your branch desperately needs competent personnel for a much needed MOS why wouldn't they want to further incentivize reclassing by allowing soldiers to keep their grade? Also if someone loses rank for something they usually lose their position as well, but they may need to keep their grade in order to pay bills and feed their family. I have seen several married joes lose rank but keep their grade. That is how it should be, given that dependents shouldn't have to suffer for the failures of the primary breadwinner.

    nerosig_zps80ae1f48.png
    steam / mwo: calverin
  • JWFokkerJWFokker Registered User
    I fully intend to join either the Air Force or the Army in the next 2-4 mohths, but I have a few questions before I enlist.

    Relevant info - I'm 27, turning 28 in August. I can ace the ASVAB, but I have a GED, not a high school diploma.

    I'm leaning toward the Air Force, but the age cutoff is 27. Is it likely that I can get in despite my age and having only a GED?

    If I can't, I would enlist in the Army (I don't want to be stuck on a boat), but I'm unsure of what MOS I should choose. I'm open to many technical jobs, networking, radar, air traffic control, etc. but I would like one that would qualify me for employment when I eventually leave the military (I can't say I'd go career military without trying it first).

  • TaranisTaranis Must be the feeling, it brings to you That makes you do what you doRegistered User regular
    A GED should still be good enough for the army. I'd highly recommend anything that offers a language and/or a top secret clearance. Commo/intel MOSes might be a good fit for you.

    nerosig_zps80ae1f48.png
    steam / mwo: calverin
  • JWFokkerJWFokker Registered User
    I'm in good physical shape and I'm not averse to doing hard work. I just want something that will translate to a tech related job in the private sector when I decide to leave. I was looking at network engineering and field maintenance before I decided to enlist. I was wondering if military networking translated to Net+, CCENT/CCNA, and the like or if the hardware is too different. I know air traffic control training can get you a job at an airport the day you leave the military, sorta like a Navy nuclear tech can work at a nuclear power plant.

  • spookymuffinspookymuffin ( ° ʖ ° ) Speicher, GermanyRegistered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Taranis wrote: »
    That doesn't really make sense. It sounds like you're talking about position instead of grade.

    How does it not make sense? If your branch desperately needs competent personnel for a much needed MOS why wouldn't they want to further incentivize reclassing by allowing soldiers to keep their grade? Also if someone loses rank for something they usually lose their position as well, but they may need to keep their grade in order to pay bills and feed their family. I have seen several married joes lose rank but keep their grade. That is how it should be, given that dependents shouldn't have to suffer for the failures of the primary breadwinner.

    So you're saying that someone can go from being an E7 (SFC), and then get busted down to PFC, but still be an E7? That makes ZERO sense. Rank and grade are synonymous. If you get busted down to E4, you're a SPC. The claim that you need a certain pay grade to feed your family is ridiculous. You get allowances for all your basic survival needs.

    spookymuffin on
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  • RUNN1NGMANRUNN1NGMAN Registered User regular
    Taranis wrote: »
    That doesn't really make sense. It sounds like you're talking about position instead of grade.

    How does it not make sense? If your branch desperately needs competent personnel for a much needed MOS why wouldn't they want to further incentivize reclassing by allowing soldiers to keep their grade? Also if someone loses rank for something they usually lose their position as well, but they may need to keep their grade in order to pay bills and feed their family. I have seen several married joes lose rank but keep their grade. That is how it should be, given that dependents shouldn't have to suffer for the failures of the primary breadwinner.

    So you're saying that someone can go from being an E7 (SFC), and then get busted down to PFC, but still be an E7? That makes ZERO sense. Rank and grade are synonymous. If you get busted down to E4, you're a SPC. The claim that you need a certain pay grade to feed your family is ridiculous. You get allowances for all your basic survival needs.

    The ONLY possible situation where you could lose rank but not be reduced in paygrade is if you have been frocked to the next higher rank. You go to NJP or court martial, are found guilty so no longer rate the frocking because you're off the advancement list, but don't receive reduction in rank as a punishment. Paygrade stays the same, you lose rank.

  • VeritasVRVeritasVR Registered User regular
    Taranis wrote: »
    That doesn't really make sense. It sounds like you're talking about position instead of grade.

    How does it not make sense? If your branch desperately needs competent personnel for a much needed MOS why wouldn't they want to further incentivize reclassing by allowing soldiers to keep their grade? Also if someone loses rank for something they usually lose their position as well, but they may need to keep their grade in order to pay bills and feed their family. I have seen several married joes lose rank but keep their grade. That is how it should be, given that dependents shouldn't have to suffer for the failures of the primary breadwinner.

    So you're saying that someone can go from being an E7 (SFC), and then get busted down to PFC, but still be an E7? That makes ZERO sense. Rank and grade are synonymous. If you get busted down to E4, you're a SPC. The claim that you need a certain pay grade to feed your family is ridiculous. You get allowances for all your basic survival needs.

    Yeah, "rank" and "grade" are interchangeable. One usually means the actual thing you're called: Corporal, Second Lieutenant, or whatever, and the other usually means the corresponding alphanumeric: E4, O1, etc. They're never not the same, unless someone gets frocked.

    Position, as in your actual job and the authorized rank for that billet, may vary wildly regardless of rank.

    CoH_infantry.jpg
    Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
  • Iceman.USAFIceman.USAF Captain East CoastRegistered User regular
    JWFokker wrote: »
    I fully intend to join either the Air Force or the Army in the next 2-4 mohths, but I have a few questions before I enlist.

    Relevant info - I'm 27, turning 28 in August. I can ace the ASVAB, but I have a GED, not a high school diploma.

    I'm leaning toward the Air Force, but the age cutoff is 27. Is it likely that I can get in despite my age and having only a GED?

    If I can't, I would enlist in the Army (I don't want to be stuck on a boat), but I'm unsure of what MOS I should choose. I'm open to many technical jobs, networking, radar, air traffic control, etc. but I would like one that would qualify me for employment when I eventually leave the military (I can't say I'd go career military without trying it first).

    Your chances of getting in if you're not very competitive are slim right now. The Army is trying to cut tens of thousands of soliders, and the Air Force a few thousand.

    All the best luck, but have a backup plan.



  • LaemkralLaemkral Captain Punch King Registered User
    JWFokker wrote: »
    I'm in good physical shape and I'm not averse to doing hard work. I just want something that will translate to a tech related job in the private sector when I decide to leave. I was looking at network engineering and field maintenance before I decided to enlist. I was wondering if military networking translated to Net+, CCENT/CCNA, and the like or if the hardware is too different. I know air traffic control training can get you a job at an airport the day you leave the military, sorta like a Navy nuclear tech can work at a nuclear power plant.

    Most MOSs in the signal field (25 series) will provide certifications that are usable in the civilian world, whether it's radios, computers, or satellites. Same with mechanics, they will receive the same or equivalent certification that civilian mechanics receive, or credit towards, or you should be sufficiently trained to get it on your own. Seriously, if you can do maintenance on a Bradley then getting certified on a civilian auto program should be a joke.

    Army doesn't have air traffic control as a job, we lump all movement into a single MOS: Movement Control Specialist, 88N. It requires a Secret clearance (great on the outside) and involves airfield control group work, port operations, road terminal operations, and rail terminal operations. It also will give you all the training to take a sweet management job at UPS overseeing the tracking of all their stuff. But the field is one that's very small and getting smaller.

    Avatar courtesy of MKR, and the strip I appeared in.
  • LaemkralLaemkral Captain Punch King Registered User
    RUNN1NGMAN wrote: »
    Taranis wrote: »
    That doesn't really make sense. It sounds like you're talking about position instead of grade.

    How does it not make sense? If your branch desperately needs competent personnel for a much needed MOS why wouldn't they want to further incentivize reclassing by allowing soldiers to keep their grade? Also if someone loses rank for something they usually lose their position as well, but they may need to keep their grade in order to pay bills and feed their family. I have seen several married joes lose rank but keep their grade. That is how it should be, given that dependents shouldn't have to suffer for the failures of the primary breadwinner.

    So you're saying that someone can go from being an E7 (SFC), and then get busted down to PFC, but still be an E7? That makes ZERO sense. Rank and grade are synonymous. If you get busted down to E4, you're a SPC. The claim that you need a certain pay grade to feed your family is ridiculous. You get allowances for all your basic survival needs.

    The ONLY possible situation where you could lose rank but not be reduced in paygrade is if you have been frocked to the next higher rank. You go to NJP or court martial, are found guilty so no longer rate the frocking because you're off the advancement list, but don't receive reduction in rank as a punishment. Paygrade stays the same, you lose rank.

    Exactly. I am a Captain, Logistics field. If the Army needs me to do a Major's job, I don't get a promotion or a pay raise. If I need an E6 to do an E7's job, they stay an E6/SSG. They don't jump up to the next rank, the days of that are long long gone since the Civil War era where your billet determined your rank. If I UCMJ someone and take their rank, they automatically go down to the corresponding pay grade.

    The ONLY ONLY time rank will not match pay grade is if an individual is frocked, and frocking is simply "you're on the promotable list and I, the commander, authorize you to wear the next rank because of whatever reason that is IAW the regulation" because you WILL be that rank soon enough. This is usually done for unit first sergeants who are E7(P), in my experience, because wearing that diamond carries a LOT more weight than SFC.

    Also, it's up to the commander to weigh the impact on dependents when doing NJP. But, if I feel that I need to take pay and rank, I will do it because the logic that dependents shouldn't have to suffer is bullshit. If a thief gets arrested in the civilian world, sucks to be their spouse and kids because you aren't going to keep getting handouts just because a breadwinner is now in jail. Maybe THEY should have been thinking about their family before doing whatever it was that put them on my carpet.

    Avatar courtesy of MKR, and the strip I appeared in.
  • JWFokkerJWFokker Registered User
    JWFokker wrote: »
    I fully intend to join either the Air Force or the Army in the next 2-4 mohths, but I have a few questions before I enlist.

    Relevant info - I'm 27, turning 28 in August. I can ace the ASVAB, but I have a GED, not a high school diploma.

    I'm leaning toward the Air Force, but the age cutoff is 27. Is it likely that I can get in despite my age and having only a GED?

    If I can't, I would enlist in the Army (I don't want to be stuck on a boat), but I'm unsure of what MOS I should choose. I'm open to many technical jobs, networking, radar, air traffic control, etc. but I would like one that would qualify me for employment when I eventually leave the military (I can't say I'd go career military without trying it first).

    Your chances of getting in if you're not very competitive are slim right now. The Army is trying to cut tens of thousands of soliders, and the Air Force a few thousand.

    All the best luck, but have a backup plan.

    Are there any jobs that the Army is still in need of? I would ideally take a tech oriented MOS, but if they're in short supply I would go for what is in demand.

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