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Starcraft 2: Patch 1.3 on SEA! Notes on Page 93 (too long for OP)

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Posts

  • StreltsyStreltsy Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    melodramatic much?

    Bio/Viking doesn't even beat collosi/gateway, it does well against it midgame in the very best of situations and raped late game.

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  • undeinPiratundeinPirat Registered User
    edited March 2011
    if you go by consistency in patch notes, apparently tweaking the bunker build time is the ultimate key to balancing this game

    in all matchups

    at all points of the game

    edit: it is a melodramatic reaction to a melodramatic change

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] steam: undeinpirat
  • Walrus von ZeppelinWalrus von Zeppelin Registered User
    edited March 2011
    Today I was thinking why don't zerg use nydus worm like protoss use warpgate? i.e. get reinforcements into an attack nearly instantly instead of rallying them across the entire map

  • Enigma435Enigma435 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Today I was thinking why don't zerg use nydus worm like protoss use warpgate? i.e. get reinforcements into an attack nearly instantly instead of rallying them across the entire map

    Because on most maps if you just rally them they get there about the same time as if they took the dang worm when you count unloading time.

  • peacekeeperpeacekeeper Brisbane, AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    1.3 should've been

    - added gsl maps
    - shut up idra

  • Walrus von ZeppelinWalrus von Zeppelin Registered User
    edited March 2011
    Enigma435 wrote: »
    Today I was thinking why don't zerg use nydus worm like protoss use warpgate? i.e. get reinforcements into an attack nearly instantly instead of rallying them across the entire map

    Because on most maps if you just rally them they get there about the same time as if they took the dang worm when you count unloading time.

    How can that possibly be true.

    Edit: Except steppes.

  • PoolCuePoolCue Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    because the unload time is sick long.

  • kedinikkedinik Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Today I was thinking why don't zerg use nydus worm like protoss use warpgate? i.e. get reinforcements into an attack nearly instantly instead of rallying them across the entire map

    I do this sometimes.

    It's nice, 'cept that smart players send 2-3 anythings around to kill your gas-expensive, fragile worm in a few seconds.

    Also takes so long to unload units that sometimes you would save time just sprinting your big reinforcing army down a creep highway.

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Enigma435 wrote: »
    Today I was thinking why don't zerg use nydus worm like protoss use warpgate? i.e. get reinforcements into an attack nearly instantly instead of rallying them across the entire map

    Because on most maps if you just rally them they get there about the same time as if they took the dang worm when you count unloading time.

    How can that possibly be true.

    Edit: Except steppes.

    it is a small exaggeration

    but the unload time is the primary reason you don't see many nydus worms.

    Tube-san wrote:
    I apologise for my rudeness desu.
  • Bruce ForsythBruce Forsyth Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    wakkawa wrote: »
    I seriously do not understand the terran nerfs.

    I believe the word nerf comes from foam weapons children use. This seems too harsh for the Terran changes. Some child probably lost an eye to a nerf dart at some point. For such minor changes I suggest replacing 'nerf' with 'jello'. Those corners on a jello cube are a real bitch.

    And what's this about TvT? They speed up BCs some so every TvT is now going to be a race to who can get BCs faster?
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    note to all terrans you can now pretty much just go bio every game vs Protoss. You don't need ghosts. Just make 2 starports with a reactor and start making vikings out of one and medivacs out of the other. Doesn't matter if you haven't scouted Colossus. If they go Colossus your vikings win. If they don't go Colossus they have nothing to deal with your massive bio and you win.

    gg

    You still have forcefields. gg
    gg
    gg

  • HonkHonk Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2011
    High Templar has to save up energy, and it makes them suddenly useless?

  • kedinikkedinik Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Yeah, it's not really an exaggeration.

    When you have like 60 lings and 20 roaches and you're unloading 2 units per second or so?

    Well that's a lot of seconds to slowly stream out your relatively fragile units.

    Especially compared to just running there on-creep and arriving halfway through the unload.

  • Enigma435Enigma435 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Enigma435 wrote: »
    Today I was thinking why don't zerg use nydus worm like protoss use warpgate? i.e. get reinforcements into an attack nearly instantly instead of rallying them across the entire map

    Because on most maps if you just rally them they get there about the same time as if they took the dang worm when you count unloading time.

    How can that possibly be true.

    Edit: Except steppes.

    There are a lot of factors you have to consider. First the units need to come all the way from your 3rd or 4th base to get to the worm itself, then they have to get in. Then you gotta click the unload buttom, at which point they pop out one at a time and walk to where you want.

  • OlorinOlorin Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Man...the problem with HT's and colossi is that they step on each other's toes too much. The HT nerf isn't a big deal (balance wise) b/c protoss can still just fall back to using colossi. The only difference between the two are

    Colossi: Easier to get to, don't need to be ready every second to drop a storm as they will automatically start shooting
    HT's: Harder to counter (only have to worry about ghosts...and they are harder to counter with than just making vikings), mildly better AOE (I don't say waaaay better, b/c units can move out of it).

    They really should have just changed the colossi around....like make it anti-armour or something. Buff it's current damage against armored units, but nerf it (hard) against light (though it would prolly be too good against marauders, and a big nerf against light might mean protoss won't have anything out quick enough to deal with mass marine). HT's can remain the general AOE caster. Maybe even make them quick to get too, and the colossus can be anti mech or something. Of course then that might just kill terran mech in TvP b/c it's already considered difficult. In conclusion...I don't know what the fuck they should do. All I know is that HT's and colossi fulfill veeeeeeeeeeeery similar functions and that's a problem IMO.

  • VariableVariable Ted Hitler Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    these are pretty much all unnecessary changes

    BNet-Vari#1998 | WiiU-Variable | 3DS-3866-8105-7478 | Steam | Twitch
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  • 3clipse3clipse Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    ....I have no idea what Blizzard is thinking with this patch.

    Like, where the hell did these changes come from?

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  • Walrus von ZeppelinWalrus von Zeppelin Registered User
    edited March 2011
    Units leaving the Mothership's Vortex are now un-targetable and immune to damage for 1.5 seconds.

    Can they attack ?

  • Bruce ForsythBruce Forsyth Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Olorin wrote: »
    Man...the problem with HT's and colossi is that they step on each other's toes too much. *snip*

    Then they should have nerfed colossi and kept HTs the same/similar. Make the stronger unit the one that takes effort to aim the damage and dies easily rather than the one that is "A-move/back away sometimes".

  • His CorkinessHis Corkiness Registered User
    edited March 2011
    Honk wrote: »
    High Templar has to save up energy, and it makes them suddenly useless?
    You warp in a High Templar now and it's essentially useless for 44 seconds. That's a big window in which they can be killed or your stormless army can be rolled.

  • undeinPiratundeinPirat Registered User
    edited March 2011
    i would be all for nerfing the colossus

    never been a fan

    i want to use immortals and templars more

    edit: going off of cork's point, another thing with the change is your templar army will be less mobile because instead of warping in storms at proxy pylons, you have to move your temps around with your army as you charge them

    and they are hella hella slow

    i wonder if peeps would get warp prisms to cart them around

    that would actually be p cool

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] steam: undeinpirat
  • kedinikkedinik Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Variable wrote: »
    these are pretty much all unnecessary changes

    Agreed.

  • VariableVariable Ted Hitler Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Honk wrote: »
    High Templar has to save up energy, and it makes them suddenly useless?
    You warp in a High Templar now and it's essentially useless for 44 seconds. That's a big window in which they can be killed or your stormless army can be rolled.

    I imagine the intent is to have toss getting more like 2-4 templar instead of warping in a whole bunch.

    that's the only thing I can make sense of. rather than warping in a storm (per 150 gas), it's a unit you invest in and have to not lose.

    torn on it cause I don't think it's necessary but to be honest it makes me happy so I want to justify it, I admit.

    BNet-Vari#1998 | WiiU-Variable | 3DS-3866-8105-7478 | Steam | Twitch
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  • HonkHonk Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2011
  • RiddoxRiddox Registered User
    edited March 2011
    Of all the changes they could have possibly made to Zerg

    they buff the infestor

    and not just the infestor

    they buff the spell that's by far the best and most useful

    GG Browder

    GG

    No RE

    Instead of tweaking Amulet let's REMOVE IT from the game - quality change bros I approve. :^:

    Gamertag: Ridley 8
  • Raiden333Raiden333 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Like seriously, would anyone, on EITHER SIDE, have complained if they changed the amulet so that it only gave like +15 or +20 energy? That way you don't have insta-storms, but you don't have to psychically predict that you'll need extra HTs a minute in advance.

    camo_sig2.png
  • kedinikkedinik Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    It does seem like terrans were starting to solve the Khaydarin problem during the last month or so.

    Favoring marauders over marines in the face of heavy storm play, getting more medivacs to heal through the storms, incorporating more mech play sometimes.

    Removing the amulet completely seems heavy-handed and premature.

  • Walrus von ZeppelinWalrus von Zeppelin Registered User
    edited March 2011
    I don't see how the High Templar was so obviously overpowered that it needed a complete nerf and not a nerf plus a minor buff in some other way.

  • wakkawawakkawa Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Mass vikings and marauders and hope to god you don't get raped by forcefields

    And against zerg? Beat them before the game goes past 10 mins.

  • SeguerSeguer Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Hell, I reckon give Immortals a tiny bit of splash. Not enough to step on the toes of its big brother, but enough to say, "hey, you can't just go bio all game and expect me to have to tech to collosi"

  • StreltsyStreltsy Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Variable wrote: »
    Honk wrote: »
    High Templar has to save up energy, and it makes them suddenly useless?
    You warp in a High Templar now and it's essentially useless for 44 seconds. That's a big window in which they can be killed or your stormless army can be rolled.

    I imagine the intent is to have toss getting more like 2-4 templar instead of warping in a whole bunch.

    that's the only thing I can make sense of. rather than warping in a storm (per 150 gas), it's a unit you invest in and have to not lose.

    torn on it cause I don't think it's necessary but to be honest it makes me happy so I want to justify it, I admit.

    "It takes 45 sec to produce Ghost ready for EMP with energy upgrade.

    It takes 50 sec to produce Infestor ready for FG with energy upgrade.

    It takes 49.5 sec to produce HT ready for Storm without energy upgrade."


    When a P goes "I need a templar with storm", they still get it slightly faster than zerg who goes "I need an infestor with fungal" and they don't have to get an energy upgrade. It's fine. Really.

    edit: Not to mention storm is more powerful than both FG and EMP (especially the new nerfed version).

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  • ParadisoParadiso Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I have no idea what to think about fungal--except that I don't use it often enough.

  • HonkHonk Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2011
  • SeguerSeguer Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Streltsy you can't really compare direct times like that. You have to factor in other things like tech tree (time, cost, etc), what it does to your build if you choose that path, etc

    For Terran, getting Ghosts is as easy as a Ghost Academy. For Zerg, it's harder as they need to go Lair (what Zerg doesn't get Lair anyway) -> Infestation Pit. Protoss have to go Twilight Council -> Templar Archives (and then research storm!) BUT, going TC first often precludes going Robo or Stargate

  • kedinikkedinik Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I will say that sometimes I'm strapped for gas and I'll just build 2-3 infestors without the energy upgrade.

    Then I babysit them until they become useful, and it's not a big deal.

    Granted that PvT isn't ZvT and it generally takes longer to get HT tech compared to infestors.

  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Nerf Colossi.
    Add a cooldown between warping in and casting storm but let the amulet remain.
    Nerf FF's.
    Push Warpgate further back in the tech tree.
    Buff Gateway units so they're not totally dependant on the above.

  • undeinPiratundeinPirat Registered User
    edited March 2011
    i would be ok with moving temps out from my base if they weren't slower than a bulldozer in a swamp

    (ill probably still make templars because storm makes a cool sound)

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] steam: undeinpirat
  • Raiden333Raiden333 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    i would be ok with moving temps out from my base if they weren't slower than a bulldozer in a swamp

    (ill probably still make templars because storm makes a cool sound)

    hey, you'd move slow too if you had to drag 3 shadow-clones of yourself behind you wherever you moved.

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  • kedinikkedinik Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Raiden333 wrote: »
    i would be ok with moving temps out from my base if they weren't slower than a bulldozer in a swamp

    (ill probably still make templars because storm makes a cool sound)

    hey, you'd move slow too if you had to drag 3 shadow-clones of yourself behind you wherever you moved.

    "They never mention the triple shadow clone inertia until you're halfway through the High Templar graduation ceremony. I'd have been an accountant if I had it to do over again."

  • His CorkinessHis Corkiness Registered User
    edited March 2011
    The change doesn't only mean that the storm itself is delayed. It also means that you have to spend the HT warp-in earlier, which means less useful units until the storm is charged and you would've spent the HT warp-in if you had the amulet. This can be a significant weakening of the Protoss army.

  • SeguerSeguer Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Hallucation will be my new Storm.

    What's that? 20 Collosus?

    Damn straight.


    EDIT: "You don't want to micro out of my storm? Fine, micro to attack the real Collosi"

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