The more I think about it, the more I realise how much missed potential there is in this game when it came to handling the framed narrative. I'm sure other people have said this - and in more eloquent terms - before, but instead of plopping a game in between a narration and saying "I've got a framed narrative!", they could have done so much more to tie the whole storytelling angle with the gameplay.
So the idea of "reloading" could actually have been Varric backtracking on the event ("No wait, I made a mistake there...") rather than, well, just a plain vanilla reload.
This is exactly what happens in Prince of Persia: Sands of Time. I liked it then and I'd like it now even if would feel like a blatant mimicry, but I haven't had much of an issue with the narrative aside from templars saying to my face "mages aren't like you and me, with our...staves and curious sense of dress."
So the idea of "reloading" could actually have been Varric backtracking on the event ("No wait, I made a mistake there...") rather than, well, just a plain vanilla reload.
This is exactly what happens in Prince of Persia: Sands of Time. I liked it then and I'd like it now even if would feel like a blatant mimicry, but I haven't had much of an issue with the narrative aside from templars saying to my face "mages aren't like you and me, with our...staves and curious sense of dress."
I'm certain a lot of other games have done it before. But if you plan to do a framed narrative, you might as well use it to its full potential.
That said, I am not really bothered by it much. I actually find the narrations more jarring, since they are so far and few between. Because of the framed narrative's under-utilisation, I still see DA2 more in light of the traditional events-develop-as-you-play framework. with just a bit of foreshadowing for future events.
I am dueling him with my Rogue, and I am hitting him for 8-40 damage, with my 60 damage daggers. I can't hurt him, he health pots more than I do damage, what is going on?
durandal4532, I know how you feel about the Ancient Rock Wraith. The best thing I did was leave it alone for a night and sleep on it, because I was raging hard. The key is patience, which it certainly doesn't seem to inspire. Essentially, keep your distance. Only one of his attacks is a guaranteed hit and it does next to no damage. Yes, it pretty much boils down to waiting for him to move, then pausing and moving your characters, rinse and repeat for 20-40 minutes. It blows, but it's doable without dropping difficulty.
Don't try to deal damage up close, at all, until he's immobilized. Stick with ranged, throw whatever debuffs you have at him, and try to keep aggro on a character who can withstand at least one good physical attack.
I want to know if the PA response to that fight is representative of the general experience, because if it is, it might warrant retooling it in a patch. I'm thinking specifically that it should become vulnerable more often, and repeat attacks during the offense phase in a more predictable pattern. In its current state, it's a drawn-out pain in the ass that is a test of patience more than skill. While I think kiting is a reasonable tactic, I resent the idea of a boss that essentially requires it.
So the idea of "reloading" could actually have been Varric backtracking on the event ("No wait, I made a mistake there...") rather than, well, just a plain vanilla reload.
This is exactly what happens in Prince of Persia: Sands of Time. I liked it then and I'd like it now even if would feel like a blatant mimicry, but I haven't had much of an issue with the narrative aside from templars saying to my face "mages aren't like you and me, with our...staves and curious sense of dress."
"wait wait wait, I wasn't horribly killed by a bandit. let me start over..."
There's just a lot of tedium involved in it. With an unprepared party, or a wrong party set-up, you can very easily lose the fight on Hard. Ranged and AOE attacks are way superior; during my Mage run-through I had Fenris squat in a corner as I plinked away at it from range, and only got him to run in when it was down.
Another extremely tedious fight is:
The High Dragon. Not as bad as the Rock Wraith, but still pretty irritating.
I had more problem with this one, but that's mainly because I didn't haul a tank... was player a dual-dagger rogue, brought Bethany and Anders.
In the end Decoy helped, and quite a bit of running.
So the idea of "reloading" could actually have been Varric backtracking on the event ("No wait, I made a mistake there...") rather than, well, just a plain vanilla reload.
This is exactly what happens in Prince of Persia: Sands of Time. I liked it then and I'd like it now even if would feel like a blatant mimicry, but I haven't had much of an issue with the narrative aside from templars saying to my face "mages aren't like you and me, with our...staves and curious sense of dress."
"wait wait wait, I wasn't horribly killed by a bandit. let me start over..."
I am dueling him with my Rogue, and I am hitting him for 8-40 damage, with my 60 damage daggers. I can't hurt him, he health pots more than I do damage, what is going on?
it's designed to be a long fight.
Just hit him with your specials, run away while they recharge and use your potions when health and stamina is low.
He will after a few times stop using potions and die.
I am dueling him with my Rogue, and I am hitting him for 8-40 damage, with my 60 damage daggers. I can't hurt him, he health pots more than I do damage, what is going on?
I...don't know. A rogue should tear him apart. What are your specs and what are you doing, specifically?
He does have a hard limit on the number of potions he will use. So don't worry about that.
He stops at 3.
I fought him as a woefully unprepared Rogue on hard. I had to kite him with a bow for like 15 min to finally win because that impale attack was so stupidly powerful.
durandal4532, I know how you feel about the Ancient Rock Wraith. The best thing I did was leave it alone for a night and sleep on it, because I was raging hard. The key is patience, which it certainly doesn't seem to inspire. Essentially, keep your distance. Only one of his attacks is a guaranteed hit and it does next to no damage. Yes, it pretty much boils down to waiting for him to move, then pausing and moving your characters, rinse and repeat for 20-40 minutes. It blows, but it's doable without dropping difficulty.
Don't try to deal damage up close, at all, until he's immobilized. Stick with ranged, throw whatever debuffs you have at him, and try to keep aggro on a character who can withstand at least one good physical attack.
I want to know if the PA response to that fight is representative of the general experience, because if it is, it might warrant retooling it in a patch. I'm thinking specifically that it should become vulnerable more often, and repeat attacks during the offense phase in a more predictable pattern. In its current state, it's a drawn-out pain in the ass that is a test of patience more than skill. While I think kiting is a reasonable tactic, I resent the idea of a boss that essentially requires it.
Seriously, when he's charging up like that, get out of the way. After that there is plenty of time to kick his ass while he does nothing. He spawns a bunch of little pansies that take one to two hits to kill, then you can focus on him entirely.
I mean, yea, the first time I fought him I thought "huh he's charging up something biholy fuck we just got raped," but I didn't fall for that again.
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited March 2011
Honestly, I got through that fight easy enough.
But that's because years of video games have taught me that when enemies start glowing and buzzing loudly, you don't want to be next to them...and hey, conveniently placed pillars.
That being said, I don't mind bosses having gimmicks. Makes the fights different from how you normally approach them.
I am dueling him with my Rogue, and I am hitting him for 8-40 damage, with my 60 damage daggers. I can't hurt him, he health pots more than I do damage, what is going on?
I...don't know. A rogue should tear him apart. What are your specs and what are you doing, specifically?
I backstab then twin fang or whatever him, that does decent damage. I didn't know he ran out of potions, it was probably a 20 minute fight. Its pretty easy to not take damage, oh and I accidently used decoy and bugged out the fight...he didn't move at all so I reloaded.
No one notices you're a mage or a blood mage because that's not in the story Varric's telling.
I just rationalized away every single inconsistency in the game.
That's what I always figured anyway. It's Varrics story of Hawke, not Hawkes story, so some shit can just be explained away as creative license on his part.
But if Cassandra points out other inconsistencies in Varric's stories, she would equally have pointed out this inconsistency.
Of course, you can always rationalise it by thinking that, as Cassandra tries to interject, Varric does a "Shh" sign and just continues. But the whole mage/blood mage thing is a large enough issue that I think would warrant an interruption by Cassandra.
Additionally, it'd be easier to accept the "It's Varric's story!" explanation if Bioware took more liberties with the whole narrative idea. More exaggerations, interjections, or fudging (like How I Met Your Mother, which clearly demonstrates that the whole plotline is a muddy recollection) would more strongly convey the idea that it is just Varric's memory of what happened. So the idea of "reloading" could actually have been Varric backtracking on the event ("No wait, I made a mistake there...") rather than, well, just a plain vanilla reload.
I thought that, perhaps, they didn't do more with it because in the end, it's still an RPG that at least tries to give the player the illusion of strong player agency in the narrative and to allow the player to "create" Hawke.
People are already angry that the story is a retelling of events rather than the original events, as if it devalues what they've done and played through and that their Hawke isn't really Hawke, just a remembered and possibly lied about facsimile.
If they had done too much, they could have threatened to shatter the illusion even further.
Maybe he didn't want to be too good. Also, maybe it's just me, but I never even put Backstab on my tray. It's just valuable Stamina that could be going to Assassinate and Twin Fang.
I am dueling him with my Rogue, and I am hitting him for 8-40 damage, with my 60 damage daggers. I can't hurt him, he health pots more than I do damage, what is going on?
I...don't know. A rogue should tear him apart. What are your specs and what are you doing, specifically?
I backstab then twin fang or whatever him, that does decent damage. I didn't know he ran out of potions, it was probably a 20 minute fight. Its pretty easy to not take damage, oh and I accidently used decoy and bugged out the fight...he didn't move at all so I reloaded.
Are you not an Assassin? Why are you not an Assassin?
Because 100 percent crit chance is too good to pass up.
But...it's stupid easy to get to 100% Crit Chance anyway, most of your worthwhile skills already have a 100% Crit Chance and an Assassin can do 16,000 damage in a single hit.
You go Assassin, and then have one point in Shadow for the +25% Crit Damage (or you go Duelist)
Blackjack on
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
No one notices you're a mage or a blood mage because that's not in the story Varric's telling.
I just rationalized away every single inconsistency in the game.
That's what I always figured anyway. It's Varrics story of Hawke, not Hawkes story, so some shit can just be explained away as creative license on his part.
But if Cassandra points out other inconsistencies in Varric's stories, she would equally have pointed out this inconsistency.
Of course, you can always rationalise it by thinking that, as Cassandra tries to interject, Varric does a "Shh" sign and just continues. But the whole mage/blood mage thing is a large enough issue that I think would warrant an interruption by Cassandra.
Additionally, it'd be easier to accept the "It's Varric's story!" explanation if Bioware took more liberties with the whole narrative idea. More exaggerations, interjections, or fudging (like How I Met Your Mother, which clearly demonstrates that the whole plotline is a muddy recollection) would more strongly convey the idea that it is just Varric's memory of what happened. So the idea of "reloading" could actually have been Varric backtracking on the event ("No wait, I made a mistake there...") rather than, well, just a plain vanilla reload.
I thought that, perhaps, they didn't do more with it because in the end, it's still an RPG that at least tries to give the player the illusion of strong player agency in the narrative and to allow the player to "create" Hawke.
People are already angry that the story is a retelling of events rather than the original events, as if it devalues what they've done and played through and that their Hawke isn't really Hawke, just a remembered and possibly lied about facsimile.
If they had done too much, they could have threatened to shatter the illusion even further.
Personally, I have no problems with the whole game being a story about retold events, with the player being involved in determining the details of these events. However, I can understand the criticisms about the devaluation - since all these events have happened in the past already, there is a certain fatalism and the player's actions don't change anything.
But that criticism is easily defanged if it is clear that the actions of the player do affect the outcome in a significant way. And I think this is what DA2 failed to do. Although your actions do affect things in the context of the narrative, the ending is fixed. Hawke's tale has clearly defined parameters which limit the significance of the player's action, or reduces the illusion that the player's actions are meaningful.
A good use of the framed narrative would be having the story play out in the "past" and "present", so that the player's actions are meaningful in the context of Varric's story, and also in the events of the time Varric is telling his story.
Are you not an Assassin? Why are you not an Assassin?
Because 100 percent crit chance is too good to pass up.
But you can get that anyway by speccing the good classes correctly...
Duelists suck, and most of the assassins skills are better late game, shadow is best early. I get shadow to get the 100 percent crit, then work towards the cunning bonus in assassin and by that time I will have tons of cunning after getting the minimum dex.
Also anyone know of any mods/cheats to raise level? I want to get a higher level but I sort of did a speed run skipping most of the optional quests I already did and all the companion quests I already did too, I think I can beat the game at level 16.
Are you not an Assassin? Why are you not an Assassin?
Because 100 percent crit chance is too good to pass up.
But you can get that anyway by speccing the good classes correctly...
Duelists suck, and most of the assassins skills are better late game, shadow is best early. I get shadow to get the 100 percent crit, then work towards the cunning bonus in assassin and by that time I will have tons of cunning after getting the minimum dex.
Also anyone know of any mods/cheats to raise level? I want to get a higher level but I sort of did a speed run skipping most of the optional quests I already did and all the companion quests I already did too, I think I can beat the game at level 16.
Are you not an Assassin? Why are you not an Assassin?
Because 100 percent crit chance is too good to pass up.
But...it's stupid easy to get to 100% Crit Chance anyway, most of your worthwhile skills already have a 100% Crit Chance and an Assassin can do 16,000 damage in a single hit.
You go Assassin, and then have one point in Shadow for the +25% Crit Damage (or you go Duelist)
Hey Blackjack, I'm curious about your 16k damage Rogue build. Do you mind giving a breakdown of your attribute and abilities allocation? I plan to do my next run-through as a Rogue.
Are you not an Assassin? Why are you not an Assassin?
Because 100 percent crit chance is too good to pass up.
But you can get that anyway by speccing the good classes correctly...
Duelists suck, and most of the assassins skills are better late game, shadow is best early. I get shadow to get the 100 percent crit, then work towards the cunning bonus in assassin and by that time I will have tons of cunning after getting the minimum dex.
Also anyone know of any mods/cheats to raise level? I want to get a higher level but I sort of did a speed run skipping most of the optional quests I already did and all the companion quests I already did too, I think I can beat the game at level 16.
Are you not an Assassin? Why are you not an Assassin?
Because 100 percent crit chance is too good to pass up.
But you can get that anyway by speccing the good classes correctly...
Duelists suck, and most of the assassins skills are better late game, shadow is best early. I get shadow to get the 100 percent crit, then work towards the cunning bonus in assassin and by that time I will have tons of cunning after getting the minimum dex.
Also anyone know of any mods/cheats to raise level? I want to get a higher level but I sort of did a speed run skipping most of the optional quests I already did and all the companion quests I already did too, I think I can beat the game at level 16.
Are you not an Assassin? Why are you not an Assassin?
Because 100 percent crit chance is too good to pass up.
But you can get that anyway by speccing the good classes correctly...
Duelists suck,
Here's your problem right here.
Me, personally, I love a 60% increase to my defense for 3 points.
The Crit Chance bonuses from Shadow are completely excessive and offer only marginal increases in power. Assassin not only does vastly more DPS, survivability becomes a functional non-issue as a Duelist.
Duelists suck, and most of the assassins skills are better late game, shadow is best early. I get shadow to get the 100 percent crit, then work towards the cunning bonus in assassin and by that time I will have tons of cunning after getting the minimum dex.
Awww, the Merril romance is actually kind of sweet. I guess she lives with me now, also her outfit has changed... Do all companions have alt outfits? I dont remember Isabela's outfit changing during her romance.
Skull2185 on
Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
Awww, the Merril romance is actually kind of sweet. I guess she lives with me now, also her outfit has changed... Do all companions have alt outfits? I dont remember Isabela's outfit changing during her romance.
Isabela, Fenris, Anders, Merrill, and Aveline have different outfits. Isabela's is bugged and Aveline's are pretty obvious.
Awww, the Merril romance is actually kind of sweet. I guess she lives with me now, also her outfit has changed... Do all companions have alt outfits? I dont remember Isabela's outfit changing during her romance.
they do and that's a bug.
if you give isabela a maker's sigh potion it'll update her armor.
it's a black corsett :winky:
Hey Blackjack, I'm curious about your 16k damage Rogue build. Do you mind giving a breakdown of your attribute and abilities allocation? I plan to do my next run-through as a Rogue.
Basically, you want to go Assassin and put one point into Shadow for the +25% Crit Damage and then pour points into cunning and then use Assassinate on a Brittle enemy for massive damage.
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But they can't have a game where templars are constantly trying to lobotomize you.
Hard to become the Champion of Kirkwall that way.
The fight always took me a couple tries. But then again, I was rolling with 2 mages, a rogue, and a 2h Warrior with no special talent tree.
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This is exactly what happens in Prince of Persia: Sands of Time. I liked it then and I'd like it now even if would feel like a blatant mimicry, but I haven't had much of an issue with the narrative aside from templars saying to my face "mages aren't like you and me, with our...staves and curious sense of dress."
I'm certain a lot of other games have done it before. But if you plan to do a framed narrative, you might as well use it to its full potential.
That said, I am not really bothered by it much. I actually find the narrations more jarring, since they are so far and few between. Because of the framed narrative's under-utilisation, I still see DA2 more in light of the traditional events-develop-as-you-play framework. with just a bit of foreshadowing for future events.
Don't try to deal damage up close, at all, until he's immobilized. Stick with ranged, throw whatever debuffs you have at him, and try to keep aggro on a character who can withstand at least one good physical attack.
I want to know if the PA response to that fight is representative of the general experience, because if it is, it might warrant retooling it in a patch. I'm thinking specifically that it should become vulnerable more often, and repeat attacks during the offense phase in a more predictable pattern. In its current state, it's a drawn-out pain in the ass that is a test of patience more than skill. While I think kiting is a reasonable tactic, I resent the idea of a boss that essentially requires it.
I thought it reminded me of WoW a little.
"wait wait wait, I wasn't horribly killed by a bandit. let me start over..."
I had more problem with this one, but that's mainly because I didn't haul a tank... was player a dual-dagger rogue, brought Bethany and Anders.
In the end Decoy helped, and quite a bit of running.
"Kids... And that was how I met the Champion."
Just hit him with your specials, run away while they recharge and use your potions when health and stamina is low.
He will after a few times stop using potions and die.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
I'm glad this game auto saves frequently, 2 lockups in 1 night on ps3 so far.
I fought him as a woefully unprepared Rogue on hard. I had to kite him with a bow for like 15 min to finally win because that impale attack was so stupidly powerful.
Also if you have stun grenades he's super easy.
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Seriously, when he's charging up like that, get out of the way. After that there is plenty of time to kick his ass while he does nothing. He spawns a bunch of little pansies that take one to two hits to kill, then you can focus on him entirely.
I mean, yea, the first time I fought him I thought "huh he's charging up something biholy fuck we just got raped," but I didn't fall for that again.
So annoying.
But that's because years of video games have taught me that when enemies start glowing and buzzing loudly, you don't want to be next to them...and hey, conveniently placed pillars.
That being said, I don't mind bosses having gimmicks. Makes the fights different from how you normally approach them.
I backstab then twin fang or whatever him, that does decent damage. I didn't know he ran out of potions, it was probably a 20 minute fight. Its pretty easy to not take damage, oh and I accidently used decoy and bugged out the fight...he didn't move at all so I reloaded.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
I thought that, perhaps, they didn't do more with it because in the end, it's still an RPG that at least tries to give the player the illusion of strong player agency in the narrative and to allow the player to "create" Hawke.
People are already angry that the story is a retelling of events rather than the original events, as if it devalues what they've done and played through and that their Hawke isn't really Hawke, just a remembered and possibly lied about facsimile.
If they had done too much, they could have threatened to shatter the illusion even further.
Because 100 percent crit chance is too good to pass up.
you've specced wrong.
You go Assassin, and then have one point in Shadow for the +25% Crit Damage (or you go Duelist)
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
But you can get that anyway by speccing the good classes correctly...
Personally, I have no problems with the whole game being a story about retold events, with the player being involved in determining the details of these events. However, I can understand the criticisms about the devaluation - since all these events have happened in the past already, there is a certain fatalism and the player's actions don't change anything.
But that criticism is easily defanged if it is clear that the actions of the player do affect the outcome in a significant way. And I think this is what DA2 failed to do. Although your actions do affect things in the context of the narrative, the ending is fixed. Hawke's tale has clearly defined parameters which limit the significance of the player's action, or reduces the illusion that the player's actions are meaningful.
A good use of the framed narrative would be having the story play out in the "past" and "present", so that the player's actions are meaningful in the context of Varric's story, and also in the events of the time Varric is telling his story.
Duelists suck, and most of the assassins skills are better late game, shadow is best early. I get shadow to get the 100 percent crit, then work towards the cunning bonus in assassin and by that time I will have tons of cunning after getting the minimum dex.
Also anyone know of any mods/cheats to raise level? I want to get a higher level but I sort of did a speed run skipping most of the optional quests I already did and all the companion quests I already did too, I think I can beat the game at level 16.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Hey Blackjack, I'm curious about your 16k damage Rogue build. Do you mind giving a breakdown of your attribute and abilities allocation? I plan to do my next run-through as a Rogue.
An excellent rebuttal.
Here's your problem right here.
Me, personally, I love a 60% increase to my defense for 3 points.
The Crit Chance bonuses from Shadow are completely excessive and offer only marginal increases in power. Assassin not only does vastly more DPS, survivability becomes a functional non-issue as a Duelist.
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no.
Isabela, Fenris, Anders, Merrill, and Aveline have different outfits. Isabela's is bugged and Aveline's are pretty obvious.
they do and that's a bug.
if you give isabela a maker's sigh potion it'll update her armor.
it's a black corsett :winky:
3DS: 1607-3034-6970